Trading Update

Jan 13, 2021

Ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Page Group Q4 and Full Year 2020 Trading Update. My name is Abby, and I'll be coordinating your call today. I would now like to hand over to our host, Calvin Stagg. Please go ahead, Calvin. Good morning, everyone, and welcome to the Page Group 4th quarter and full year I'm Kelvin Stagg, Chief Financial Officer, and I will now present the headline numbers and a financial review before moving on to a regional review and a summary. Although I will not read it through, I'd just like to make reference to the legal formalities that are covered in the cautionary statement in the appendix to this presentation, which will also be available on our website following the call. Although the group continued to be impacted by COVID-nineteen, the increase in activity levels we saw in Q3 continued into Q4 And trading improved as the quarter progressed. Consequently, the group delivered gross profit of GBP 165,500,000 in the quarter, A decline of 20.2 percent in constant currencies and an improvement from the decline of 31.9% in Q3. We exited the quarter at minus 18.2% in December. During the quarter, foreign exchange had a favorable impact on gross profit with a decline in reported rates of 19.3%. In monetary terms, foreign exchange increased gross profit by around £2,000,000 For the year, the group delivered gross profit of €609,700,000 a decline of 28.2% in constant currencies and 28.7% in reported rates. For the quarter, Michael Page declined 18% And Page personnel declined 25.1. We ended the year in a strong financial position with net cash of around GBP 165,000,000 Our headcount fell by 89% in the quarter, a reduction of 1.3% on Q3. At the end of December, the group had a total headcount of 6,694. I will now take you through the financial review. In the Q4, reflecting the exceptionally challenging conditions in many of our markets, Permanent recruitment declined 20% in constant currencies, while temporary declined to 20.7%. Our ratio of permanent to temporary gross profit was €73.27 in line with Q3. In Michael Page, permanent recruitment represented 82% of gross profit, While in Page Personnel, it was less at 52. Michael Page continued to be more resilient across both permanent and temporary recruitments With permanent marginally ahead of time. However, in Page personnel, both temporary and permanent was behind Michael Page, with permanent materially weaker. In line with our strategy of investing it and protecting in our platform, while gross profit was down 28% for the year, We chose to reduce our fee owner headcount at a slower rate, down 15% over the same period. We reduced our fee owner headcount initially by 31 in Q2. Most of these have recently joined the group and therefore had very limited experience All on performance reviews. The hiring of now approaching 400 experienced fee earners meant that our fee owner headcount reduced at a slower rate in Q3 3 in Q4, down EUR16978,000,000 respectively. Operational support staff reduced by EUR11,000,000 in Q4, which maintained our fee owner to operational support staff ratio at 77.23. At the end of December, The group had 5,145 fee earners and 1549 operational support staff, A total headcount of 6,694. We have also continued to invest in our new operating system, Customer Connect, with around onethree of our fee earners now live on the system. Investment in innovation also continued into Page Insights, Our data intelligence tool, which provides rich information for our clients and consultants into hiring trends by specialism and geography using internal and external data. The Spionna headcount and gross profit chart Shows the unprecedented scale in the decline in group profit in Q2 and the comparison to the global financial crisis in 2008. It also shows the recovery seen in Q3 and Q4 as well as headcount stabilizing. Quarterly gross profit due to the pandemic fell 42% from GBP 205,600,000 in Q4 twenty nineteen CHF 118.3 billion in Q2 2020. As activity levels started to improve, this increased to CHF 143.5 million in Q3 2020 and to 165.5 in Q4 2020. The decline during the GFC was similar in magnitude but over a longer period, down 45% over 4 quarters. In 2009, our fee owner headcount reduced by 1139 or 31 percent from a lower base of 3,654 at the end of 2,008. During 2020, our Fianna headcount reduced significantly less, down 882 from a higher base of 6,027 or 15%. I will now get a brief overview of our regional performances before each region in more detail. Although the group continued to be impacted by the pandemic, We saw an increase in activity levels as the quarter progressed. Overall in Q4, the group was down 20.2%, an improvement from being down €31,900,000 in Q3. Our large high potential markets representing 34% of the group Declined by 17% in the quarter compared to 29% in Q3. Our businesses of technology, contracting, digital, Healthcare and Life Sciences were the most resilient, while construction and retail were among the most challenging. A number of our markets exited the quarter with positive growth, including Mainland China and Japan. Overall, the group The quarter down 18.2% in December despite local lockdowns returning in a number of the group's markets. Moving on to each of our four regions and starting with the largest, Europe, Middle East and Africa, representing 53% of the group. The improvement in trading conditions we experienced at the end of Q3 continued into Q4 and we were down 18.6% compared to a decline of 24.5% in Q3. However, several of our countries were impacted by local lockdowns in December And we exited marginally slower at minus 20%. Our Michael Page business, representing 57% of the region, was more resilient with a decline of 16% compared to a decline of 22% in Page Personnel. Permanent recruitment declined 18% for the quarter with temporary downtime. In France, our largest country, Representing a third of EMEA and 17% of the group, we declined 20% with Michael Page, the more resilient business, Down 17 compared to Page Personnel, which was down 22. Our business in Germany, representing 19% of EMEA and 10% of the group, Delivered another resilient performance and declined to just 13%. Our performance in Germany was driven by our technology focused contracting business, Michael Page interim, which was down 7% despite December being impacted significantly by local lockdowns. Overall, Germany exited the quarter in December slower, down 22%. Southern Europe declined 19% with Italy down 21% and Spain down 20%. Benelux declined 24% and the Middle East and Africa, which represented 2% of the group was down 27%. Gurna headcount was down 39 in the quarter, the majority in France. Thank you, Kelvin. I've literally just arrived a few Wi Fi issues. I'll step in. Asia Pacific, Representing 20% of the group was our strongest performing region. Trading conditions continue to improve as we progress through Q4 And we declined 10.2% for the quarter compared to minus 28.2% in Q3. In Asia, representing 17% of the group and 80% of the region, we were down 4% and exited in December flat. In Greater China, 8% of the group, we declined 10%. Mainland China was flat for the quarter, We saw a continued improvement in trading conditions and we exited with growth of 15%. The improvement was driven by our domestic clients, which now represent over half of our Mainland China business. Hong Kong with a greater proportion of international clients continued to be impacted significantly by COVID-nineteen and declined 28%. Japan grew 18%, delivering a record quarter and Did December up 26 with record performances in contracting and our Nikkei market businesses. India was one of the worst affected countries by COVID-nineteen declined 3% for the quarter. This was up from a decline of 32% in Q3, although they exited the quarter more slowly down 18%. Southeast Asia declined 13% with Singapore down 14%. Australia declined 26% with local lockdowns in some areas. Sea owner headcount was down 31 in the quarter, the majority in Australia. The Americas, representing 14% of the group, declined 23.2%, an improvement from decline of 41.9 percent in Q3. Trading improved as Q4 progressed, And we exited in December down 19%. In North America, 8% of the group and 59% of the region, Gross profit was down 30%. The U. S. Was down 31% due to significant disruption from COVID-nineteen as well as political uncertainty. Trading conditions remain particularly tough in construction. In Latin America, 6% of the group and 41% of the region, gross profit declined by 13%. Brazil was down 6% and Mexico, our largest country in the region, was down 30%, but improved in the quarter, exiting December down 22%. Elsewhere, the remaining countries collectively were flat for the quarter. Fee owner headcount was down 15% in the quarter. In the UK, gross profit declined 34.2% in the quarter, up from a decline of 47.9% in Q3. Trading conditions remain challenging with regional lockdowns imposed during the quarter and Brexit related uncertainty in December. As in most of our other regions, activity levels slowed improving improved as the quarter progressed and we exited in December down 30%. In Page Personnel, which represented around 1 quarter of the U. K. And operates primarily in finance and business support, We declined 43%. Michael Page, which is focused on more senior opportunities, was more resilient and declined by 31. Overall for the quarter, permanent was slightly more resilient than temporary down 33% 37%, respectively. Fee owner headcount was up 7% in the quarter as we hired experienced fee owners from the competition. I'll now finish with a brief summary of our 4th quarter results. The group's performance in each of the 3 months of Q4, which continued the monthly sequential improvement since May. This performance has been achieved despite the background of continued and increasing restrictions or lockdowns in many of our markets. Having exited Q3 and September down 26%, group gross profit in December improved to minus 18.2%. Overall, Q4 was down 20.2% compared to a decline of 31.9% in Q3. Our focus continues to be on the protection and well-being of our employees, candidates and clients during the pandemic, whilst we progress our strategy of investment in our platform to take advantage of the recovery. The approaching 400 We added in 2020 have landed well and are adding experience to our business. Our staff have adapted well to changing restrictions through the year, And our technology team have ensured that they have all the tools they need to work effectively. We have a resilient business model with some areas such Technology, Digital, Healthcare and Life Sciences delivering robust results during the pandemic. As we enter 2021, there remains a high degree of global macroeconomic uncertainty in many of our markets as COVID-nineteen remains a significant global issue And lockdowns have returned in a number of the group's markets. However, in the UK, we're encouraged that the Brexit deal has provided a degree of clarity. We remain confident in our strategy of maintaining our platform and continuing to carefully invest in headcount as well as continuing to roll out new technology And innovations. We're the clear market leader in many of our markets with a highly experienced senior management team, which we believe positions us well to take market share and take advantage of opportunities to grow and improve our business. We've maintained our focus on our longer term vision for the group to drive progress towards our strategic goals. We've made a lot of progress in a very difficult year. Hiring experienced BMs, strengthening our management We'll expand on these areas more prelims In March. We're happy to take questions now. Our first question comes from Edward Donahue from 1 Investment. Edward, your line is now open. Please go ahead and ask your question. Good morning, gentlemen, and hopefully, a happy New Year this Just a couple of points, if I may. It's going on the headcount addition of 100 Fianas. If I remember Q3, it was sort of we had 300,000,000 and that was sort of guided as a sort of a done lot for the year. What is the positive Reid, I can take the fact that you've added another 100 into Q4. What are you seeing that you've decided to add that additional number Into the various business lines that you're focusing on. If you could just give some clarity on that, it would be interesting. Thanks. Yes. I mean there are a number of areas that frankly we think we can take advantage of growth and more resilience that we're already seeing. So Technology, Healthcare, Life Sciences are areas digital they're areas that have actually proved to be very resilient last year. In some markets, we lack experience. We lack knowledge. We lack understanding. And so we've taken advantage of the fact that I think a lot of our competitors, particularly the boutiques, Have struggled and that's no surprise during 2020. Maybe they don't have the balance sheet that we have or whatever. But As a result, they furloughed a lot of their staff or even just treated them badly. And what we found was For the first time, there was a real opportunity, a real appetite. And we were able to hire lots of people and take advantage of that That has strengthened and created more depth and knowledge and years of experience in the business. So what we've done is we've Taken out more than we otherwise probably would have taken out of the inexperienced consultants with less than 18 months experience. And we've replaced several 100 of them. We've replaced with 400 experienced people. And I think we'll be able to demonstrate Freeland, therefore, that the depth of experience we now have as a result will Mean that we're positioning more favorably going into this year than we were going into last year. Okay. And just following up on that. Is there a particular Centrion geographically within that 400,000,000 or is it recently spread? Just going back to your point of wanting to date the experience In some areas. Again, the markets that were more resilient. So of course and where we've got competitors obviously. So China, for example, we've done very well hiring there. Japan, we've done very well in Germany. Markets that you'd expect several in the U. S. Although the market's a bit more challenging there, but again that we have got a lot of competitors particularly smaller ones. So we've taken advantage of the opportunity where we're more resilient, particularly into high potential markets and as we see them high potential disciplines. Okay. And if I may have one second question. It's just on Germany, a little bit of clarification there. I mean, Q4 minus 13%, Q2 Q3 minuteus 10 with an exit of minus 22. Bearing in mind your exposure on interim technology, Which provides a sort of yes, I call it I could think that's almost an airbag slightly. What happened in Q4 4 and the exit rate. Just to walk through that. I'm a little bit confused. So I'm glad you say it's an airbag. I don't think Not every competitor would agree with you. Look, it was we were traveling fine. All that happened was we went into a severe lockdown, as you know, in Germany. And it meant a lot of contractors, therefore, were let go of early. They tend to We have quite a drop off over Christmas anyway. That drop off just happened earlier than expected. We're not seeing any issues going into this year. There's certainly not a start of a trend that you need to worry about that we're aware of. All we're seeing now activity levels Started well in Germany and we've got no real concern. So I think it really was after a very successful year where we had Growth in our interim contracting business, which I think, I mean, yes, it's a resilient market. I'm not sure it's an air But I mean, I think growing in that market was definitely taking of market share. I think we can assume that we continued that trend. There was just a release But during lockdown, a heavy lockdown that hit us in December, it was sent to us to let go of some of those contractors early For their Christmas break and pick them up again in January. Are you actually seeing that pickup of assignments being re awarded On the basis of the roll off. Yes. It doesn't all happen on the 4th January, but yes. No, no, no, exactly. Yes. We're in line with that. Okay, great. Okay, gentlemen, thank you very much. Pleasure. Our next question comes from Hans Vujas from Kepler Cheuvreux. Hans, your line is now open. Please go ahead. Yes. Good morning, gentlemen. All of that's possible for 2021. A follow-up on Edward's question on So the return to work would give some let's say some feeling on in general What you currently are already seeing, let's say, also not only on return to work, but also the KPIs going into 2021, new vacancies coming in. Do you have any, let's say, feeling already on that? And is it a picture a little bit different from what you see, let's say, on the exit rate? Could you give some feeling on that or maybe also By reading some flavor. And secondly, you saw let's say that perm indeed It improved somewhat better more than temp during the quarter with, let's say, a lower decline In Q4, especially compared to Q3. Could you give me some feeling besides geographical mix impacts What you're in general seeing what clients are seeing is purely a catch up or is also let's say somewhat more structural confidence going forward? And lastly, on the cost level going into 2021, that's assuming a slightly more And the gradual lift of the lockdown in the coming weeks months, what in general do you expect for the cost level? Do you expect be let's say slightly or in line with 2020 or slightly ahead of 2020 and gives at least some feeling on how you see that developing? Okay. I'll take the first two and Kelvin you can take the 3rd, if that's okay. Look, January is Probably in a typical year our weakest month of the year. So if I could just put that in context. And it starts from a very low base Because naturally a loss of recruitment tends to complete in the previous year. People want to finish off assignments in December. And therefore, we start from a very low base. Everything we're seeing so far is in line with our expectations. So we're comfortable with that. We're not we've not had any We're very much used to new lockdowns and coming out of them and so on. And our staff has to be And I'd like to congratulate them as well because they have to be very resilient and very flexible because things change very rapidly in the environment we're in at the moment. KPIs are in line with expectations. They're slightly weaker in the markets that have been weaker in 2020. And they're slightly Hunger are clearly in the ones that are stronger, but no surprises in line with expectations, very early in our weakest month of the year. In terms of perm and tender, I wouldn't read a huge amount into that. I think companies generally like us Are getting more and more, dare I say, this used to the situation we're in. I think in the Q1, a lot of companies were sort of stunned into were shocked almost into the situation they were in and there was a certain sort of element of sort of frozen rabbit. But I think in Q2, it was a holiday period in a large part of the world. We were getting used to it Q3 and Q4. I think companies No. They need to carry on as much as they can with business as usual. And for us, we see in perm where there's bigger commitment particularly in Michael Page, higher end jobs. A lot of the roles we're hiring are critical hires. So if they've lost Somebody in a critical role, they have to replace them. With Tempt, we did quite a lot at the high end in Michael Page and Page contracting. That continued to be strong. We saw a bit of a pickup in Page personnel where it had been weaker where perhaps some of our temps or quite a lot of our temps are administrative And therefore weren't seen as critical. We saw a bit of a pickup in the Q4 as companies And the year at year end and needed a bit more resource. It all Support the ongoing trend we've seen of improving results month on month as we hopefully Get used to and then recover from this virus. Kelvin? Yes, sure. Talking to the cost levels. So we guided through 2020 fairly specifically against moving underlying costs. In Q1, our cost base was around £50,000,000 a month. So it was £150,000,000 for the Q1. As we went into Q2, you'll remember that we put the brakes on costs. We pulled some emergency measures in terms of cutting all our senior staff Salaries by 20%. We asked the majority of the rest of our staff to work 4 days a week and be paid accordingly. And we dropped our cost base against that Q1 level by 21% in Q2. In Q3, we returned everybody to full pay. But actually, we ended up with costs being down 15% against Q1 as a mixture of having a lower headcount, But also having a fair amount of holiday accruals from people that hadn't actually taken their holiday in Q2. We indicated at the time of Q3 3, our September cost base had been down 10% on the Q1 monthly level, and we expected that to Carry on through Q4 and it indeed has done. And as we look forward into certainly Q1 of this year 2021, I expect that cost base level to remain somewhere around there. And that's a mixture of very little travel going on, which Historically, used to cost us about GBP 1,000,000 a month, very little in terms of staff and clients entertaining, which again was GBP 1,000,000 a month. And the fact that we're 882 heads down on the year, and therefore, we're running a lower cost base. So I expect Through certainly Q1, us to be about 10% down on Q1 last year. I think we'll probably Start hiring again as we go through the rest of the year and therefore that cost base may rise. But that's indicative for the time being. Okay. Thanks. Our next question comes from Abesh Agrawal from Morgan Stanley. Avesh, your line is now open. Please go ahead. Hi, good morning. And hopefully, yes, we'll have a much better year in 2021. So I got two questions. 1st is obviously the current lockdown and the new lockdowns you have talked about. But when I compare it to situation in the UK versus, let's say, what we had in November, the Big difference is the schools closure and some of the other staffing companies have talked about that is in the past like That is something that could be a game changer. So do you think the school closure this time could have a more meaningful impact in the UK compared to, let's say, what we had in November? And the second is, clearly, the balance sheet is in pretty strong position. We are seeing some recovery. So the decision on returning to the dividend, is it more optical now, like you still got some furloughs, so paying dividend, how it will look? Or there is still some sort of financial consideration in there as we enter into pellets? Okay. I'll take 1 and Kjellb you can take 2. You're right. We can't underestimate The challenge of homeschooling. Unfortunately, my children are a little older. But I do look at those with children in their Anywhere from sort of 5 upwards through to early teens, it must be very difficult to balance work, working from home as well. But I think the market has become more and more resilient. We've become better at it. Even I'm sure School kids have got you more used to homeschooling and therefore life goes on. And I don't think therefore There will be a significant impact as a result. There'll be some temps that struggle to go to work and work as temps, But we have other candidates, if necessary. So if the assignment is there, if the job opportunities are there, Then I don't see a concern particularly in Page Personnel where the impact might be felt. We have the candidates to back up those roles where people have More flexibility at home. So I don't think we need to read in any significant step up. There's been a lot of home schooling before. We've been through those months. This isn't the first time we're in a situation where schools are closed in this country or other countries. So I think we will cope albeit very, very challenging for parents. Yes. Let me talk to the question around cash and dividends. So yes, we obviously have a large amount of cash on the balance sheet. We have €165,000,000 Within that, there is CHF 11,000,000 which we owe to HMRC, which will obviously pay back relatively shortly. But it does mean that we've got a sizable amount of cash and our dividend policy hasn't changed. We just Put it on hold for a period of time while the uncertainty was there. Now isn't the time that we would normally be thinking about dividends. We normally consider them at the time of the prelims, and so that would be late February. But to your point, I think there are A number of considerations that we as directors and on the board have to think about that is unusual this year. And they include the fact that we did take furlough money, not just in the UK, but in other places around the world. I think we feel that the furlough money was there to ensure that people retain their shop and that is what we've done. As you'll see from the statement where our revenues were down 28%, but our headcount was only down 15%. So we think that We've done the right thing in terms of using it in the first place. I think there's emerging different views on To the extent that company should repay that or not, I think there is also, as you say, Some consideration optically of people paying final dividends for 2020 as opposed to paying In trims or specials in 2021. So there are a number of considerations there. I guess my main iteration would be that we haven't We suspended it and we'd like to reinstate it as soon as we think it's sensible and as soon as we think that optically it looks right And we take all those stakeholders into consideration. That's very clear. Thank you so much. We have another question come from Edward Donohue from 1Invest. Ed Rose, your line is now open. Please go ahead. Sorry, guys. Can I just go back to the furlough Payments? What was the total amount that you actually received? So the furlough cash Yes. Yes. So the furlough money in total were around £9,000,000 About a third of that was in the UK, about a third of it was in France and the remaining was Throughout Europe and a small amount in other countries around the world. Right. Okay. So we're not talking huge amount, I mean okay. And then the other one was just looking at the UK on your comment with regard to obviously Brexit The uncertainty is now removed. Are you actually seeing assignments that were there that maybe were sort of being put into the freezer now, excuse Telenor is being defrosted now that, that uncertainty has been removed. And again, with regard to candidate behavior, is there any change in the sort of amplitude of activities on any level now that, that is now behind us? I think if I claim that it would be a difficult to justify. It's so early in January honestly. We're going back on the 4th. We don't instantly get a massive flow of candidates literally that day. People typically get back To work, get their if they clearly they can't get their feet under their home desks and they get back And then we see a really strong pickup in candidates who have decided that they've had enough for whatever reason they're going to move on In some cases pick up bonuses or maybe fewer this year than most years. But and they have a resolution to change jobs. I mean we're seeing The normal flow only with whatever it is 8 working days into the 1st month. And I think It's just too early to call. I mean, are we starting to see assignments we otherwise wouldn't have seen? I just wouldn't want to answer that this early, Ed. I mean, if we could talk in a month or 2, I'll tell you directly the answer That's enough. I'll be accurate in describing it, but I think it's just too early to say. I'm sure we will talk in a month or 2. It was more assignments that had been maybe suspended because of Brexit uncertainty The discussion at least is restarted. Whether that comes to fruition is another matter, but it was more but it's fine. That was actually yes, that covered what I was thinking. Cool. Thank you. Thank you. We have a question here from Andy Grobler from Credit Suisse. Andy, please go ahead. Your line is now open. Happy New Year and good morning. Paul, just one for me, if I may. Page Outsourcing, and we talked about this last year, but Could you just update us on how that's progressing momentum, which areas are doing better or worse? And kind of more broadly, whether you are seeing some other competitors are suggesting a shift towards RPO in terms of client demand? No on the latter. Okay. On the former, yes, progress is good. I mean, we aren't in a position to suddenly announce whopping new clients in RPO. And as we said, I think last year, we said it will be slowly, slowly as we build up smaller projects, smaller clients. We've had Some fantastic pipeline work, which is progressing well and looks good. We've successfully landed a few Different what we would call RPO projects. So in other words, they're not the management of a client's activity over the next 3 or 4 years. They are we've got a project. We need 400 people. And we've been awarded that project. We've got several of those that we've landed and are now working on. We've also, in terms of progress, Hired 1 or 2 people at the level below, and I mean 1 or 2, at the level below, Oli, who are regional, who will also support him in business development. And we've hired an individual as well Focus on the delivery as and when we win these projects. In other words, clearly, You have to make sure you've got the resource in place straight away. They can't all be on standby. So you have to make sure you've got all of the resource And everything lined up to deliver on projects, which often require very quick response having gone through a process and being awarded it. You don't have weeks weeks to prepare. So we've got somebody there again experienced in creating the delivery. So early days, we're very, very comfortable with the progress we're making. Okay. Excellent. Thank you very much. You have another follow-up question from Edward Donohue from 1Invest. Edward, your line is now open. Please go ahead. I have 2 others I forgot. Sorry, I forgot to turn the page. Just on the 400, when would you see those as Sort of commercially viable. I mean, in the sense of actually getting at salespeople actually generating the returns that you would be Yes. Many of them already are. So I mean as they're landing, they're landing, as I said earlier, very well. I've even heard the comment some of the teams they've joined that they're going to have to up their game as well because If you drop somebody in with 10 years experience into a team then those with 2 or 5 or 4 years experience. Well, they're going to have to up their game because they've got a very experienced player in the team. And we've been really pleased with the value that they've added And the speed that they've landed and started generating business. It's a difficult Year last year 2020. And so it's never going to be the same speed that they would do it probably in a normal year. But Honestly, we've not really had any significant fallout. They've landed well. They're generating. We've done a survey amongst them to see what they think of our technology, what compared to what they were used to, What they think of our systems, what they think of our management and the internal tools that we use like Yammer for example, our social media tool. And the feedback has been really, really positive. So we're comfortable with it. And just coming back to What you asked earlier right at the beginning. I mean, we ended up with, I think, north of 800 down last year on On the headcount, we in effect lost 12 50 people and replaced 400 of them With these experienced people. So if we were to show that in a graph of years of experience and proven capability in our business, You would see quite a shift normally because of our growth and because of attrition. And we've always talked about this that the difficulty of an engineer or an accountant or whatever coming into the business and learning how to be a Successful recruiter is really challenging. And so in a typical point in time, we could have up to 2,000 people in our business With less than a year's experience in recruitment, not just in Page. Whereas what we've done is, we've let some of that Go, which we normally would in a year anyway, the least experience, those who are struggling with that transition from engineer or accountant or lawyer or whatever Into recruitment, we've replaced 400 of them with people who We want to stay in the industry, have been successful where they are previously with tools that are not as good. Okay. And if I remember, was it something like a run rate of the EUR 300,000,000 was around about EUR 40,000,000 In terms of revenue they generated in 2019, it was. So EUR 400,000,000 is probably roughly EUR 50,000,000, EUR 55,000,000. Right. Okay. And then just my last question, I guarantee it is. Just on the U. S, With regard to construction, it seems the ongoing friction you're getting there seems slightly at odds with Maybe the end customer. If I look at plant hire companies, if I look at House builders in the U. S, if I look at building materials, suppliers, etcetera, etcetera, There was a buoyant level of activity. So I'm wondering where the friction is occurring for yourselves. I don't think so. I mean, what I was told was that a lot of projects closed down or stopped or halted, And we're now starting to see them pick up. So although construction is just about still our biggest discipline, So we're still doing a lot of activity, but and it still is our biggest discipline. We were hardest hitting construction And the most resilient disciplines in the U. S. Were technology and that's the financial services. So it was just where we typically new projects are won. The first thing they have to do when they win a project It's higher the teams that are going to deliver it. And I don't think a lot of those new projects Were awarded. So I don't know whether existing ones continued and they needed to continue to hire plant, hire Kia or whatever. I don't know. And I'm probably talking at a granular level that I'm not familiar with. But certainly in terms of new projects Landis, teams needing to be hired as a result. That slowed dramatically last year. And it's starting we're starting to see shoots of The recovery, like I say, it's still our biggest discipline in the state. So it's very significant, but it's just not as good as it was. Brilliant. Thank you very much indeed. Okay. As there are no further questions even from you Ed, Thank you all for joining us this morning. Our next update will be our 2020 full year results on the 3rd March 2021 And our Q1 2021 trading update will follow on the 14th April. Thank you, everyone. Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes today's call. Thank you for joining. You may now disconnect