Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Q3 and 9-month FY25 Earnings Conference Call of Jupiter Wagons Limited, hosted by Systematix Group. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the call, please signal an operator by pressing star, then zero on your touch-tone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Sudeep Anand of Systematix Group. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you, and good evening, everyone. Thanks for joining us today for Q3 and 9-month FY25 earnings call of Jupiter Wagons. On behalf of Systematix, I would like to thank the management for giving us the opportunity to host this call. Today, we have with us Mr. Vivek Lohia, Managing Director, and Mr. Sanjiv Keshri, CFO. Now, I'll hand over the call to the management for their opening remarks, followed up by the Q&A session. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you, Sudeep. Good evening, everyone. Thank you for joining us on this earnings call. It is my pleasure to share our performance for Q3 and 9-month FY25 and discuss our outlook on the sector and the opportunities ahead. We are pleased to report strong operational and financial performance for the quarter, driven by consistent revenue growth, improved profitability, and a healthy order book. For Q3 FY25, our revenue from operations stood at INR 1,029 crore, reflecting a 15% year-on-year increase. EBITDA grew by 19.5% year-on-year to INR 148 crore, with an EBITDA margin expansion of 14.4% from 13.9% in Q3 FY24. PAT increased 18.4% year-on-year to approximately INR 97 crore, with a PAT margin of 9.2%, while EPS stood at 2.29 per share. Since acquiring Bonatrans India, now renamed Jupiter Tatravagonka Rail Wheel Factory, we have successfully commercialized the asset and would be doubling the revenue vis-à-vis previous year.
In the current nine months of FY25, our strategic initiatives in key segments such as brake discs, axle boxes, specialized containers, axles, CMS crossing, and brake systems have paid rich dividends. We have delivered 13,000 brake discs to Indian Railways and exported close to 10,000 axle boxes. We have supplied 230 brake systems to Indian Railways for their passenger coaches. This precision-driven approach has fueled steady growth and operational excellence, strengthened our market position, and ensured alignment with our long-term goals. The JVs will start to earn profit from next year onwards on account of sustainable localization of manufacturing processes. Our order book stood at INR 6,320 crore as of 31 December 2024, reinforcing our growth potential and providing strong revenue visibility for the coming quarter. With a solid financial foundation and a robust execution pipeline, we can capitalize on future opportunities and drive long-term value for all our stakeholders.
The outlook for the sector remains bright, particularly with expectations that the 2025-2026 union budget will drive a transformative leap for Indian Railways. Capital expenditure is expected to surpass INR3 lakh crore, making a significant 15%-20% increase over the current fiscal. A major focus will be on infrastructure modernization, including upgrading railway stations and introducing modern trains like the Vande Sleeper to transform long-distance travel. To support capacity expansion and efficiency, Indian Railways is set to make significant investments in equipment procurement, including railway locomotives, coaches, and wagons. With a forward-looking vision, Indian Railways poised to deliver and drive economic growth, enhance passenger experience, and reinforce its role as the backbone of India's transport network. During the quarter, we took significant strides in expanding our presence in electric mobility.
We increased our stake in our subsidiary, Jupiter Electric Mobility, from 60% to 75%, strengthening our commitment to substantial transportation solutions. In October, GEM strengthened its leadership in electric mobility by acquiring Log9 Materials and business assets for the railway and electric truck battery divisions. This acquisition grants us full control over proprietary battery technology, positioning us at the forefront of India's transformation to electric trucks and railways while driving efficiency, sustainability, and innovation. We have onboarded a large number of dealers and have secured multiple financial partnerships, including leasing companies for ELCVs. To enhance accessibility, we are introducing Battery as a Service for Tej, offering a per-kilometer battery leasing model that ensures cost parity with ICE vehicles.
Additionally, the GEM Udan program has been launched in collaboration with Porter, one of the largest business facilitators for driver-cum-owners, to accelerate Tej's adoption and also reiterating our commitment to the community. Commercial launch of the product is scheduled on 26 May 2025, and I'm proud to say that we already have order confirmations for over 500 Tej vehicles. More product variants on the Tej platform will be introduced soon. Meanwhile, in the battery segment, we have received initial orders for lithium-ion battery systems for railways and other bus operations and continue to actively pursue further opportunities in this space. Overall, with strong performance across both wagon and non-wagon segments, we are on a track for a balanced revenue mix and further growth, driven by our focus on innovation, operational excellence, and market leadership. With this, I would like to open the floor for Q&A.
Thank you, and over to the moderator.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask questions may press star and one on the touch-tone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking questions. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. To ask questions, please press star and one. The first question is from Darshil Pandya from Fintrust Capital. Please go ahead.
Hi, thank you. Am I audible?
Yes, you are, Darshil.
Hello, sir. So I just wanted to understand the INR 3,000 crore QIP that we have approved. So what will be that used for?
So Darshil, see, honestly, this is basic. It's just an enabling resolution. So there is nothing. It's not that we are going to go for any kind of fundraise. As you are aware that this time, we expect the railway budget to be very substantial and very growth-oriented. So it is just a resolution the company has taken in case post-budget there are major growth opportunities which come about. So as such, there are no. I would say that no immediate real position we have in terms of fundraising. It's just an enabling resolution this year.
Got it. And sir, about the earlier QIP that we had done of INR 800 crore.
I would also like to reiterate that on the existing business, the company is very well funded. We anticipate the budget to be quite substantial, and if any growth opportunity which comes out of the budget, basically, the company wants to be in a position to take that opportunity.
Got it. Got it. And sir, I was just asking about the earlier fundraise that we've done of INR 800 crore. How well have we utilized that fund? So if you have re-utilized it, can you let us know the status about it?
The fundraise was specifically for our wheel project, and the project is going on track. I think the deadline, so we have released out of that, we have released the advance which we had to release to the EPC contractor, and as per the remaining schedule, as in when the funds are going to be required in the project, it will be utilized.
Okay. And, sir, on a nine-month basis, what is the kind of revenue that Jupiter Tatra Wagon has done?
On the wheel business, it's INR 225 crore turnover. We have achieved INR 225 crore of turnover, as against when we had acquired the company, they had done a business of about INR 120 crore, and I think they had some losses also that year. So it's a substantial turnaround for us, and we expect to close this year close to about INR 300 crore. And next year.
Is it profitable now?
Yes. We are reporting a bit of over 12%. And I think next year, we are looking to double this revenue. And post once the Odisha project for the backward integration kicks in, then, as I've already mentioned, this would be a more than INR 2,000 crore opportunity for us with the substantial exports to the European market.
Got it. Yes. And the final question would be on, so in the last previous call, you did mention about wagons. You would be selling around INR 10,000 wagons for the full year. It seems a bit difficult. So your thoughts on that?
So, no. What we had said was that we have increased our capacity to about 10,000 wagons, but I was very clear that we would be doing close to 9,000 wagons in this financial year. And I'm very confident that we'll be achieving those numbers. And for the next financial year, I had mentioned that, yes, our target is to go to up to 10,000 wagons. And again, we are very confident on those numbers also, and we have the necessary order books also to execute that.
Got it. Thank you. I have some more questions. I'll get back into the queue. Thank you. All the best.
Thank you. Before we take the next question, a request to participants to please limit your questions to two per participant. Should you have a follow-up question, we request you to rejoin the queue. The next question is from Garvit Goyal from Nvest Analytics. Please go ahead.
Hi. My name is Arun Aravind.
Yes, please.
Sir, you just mentioned INR 10,000 for FY26. Have I heard it right?
Yes.
But earlier, I think in a couple of phone calls, I'm pretty sure you mentioned INR 10,000 for this year only.
No, I'm not sure because we had always mentioned that the capacity this year would be about INR 10,000. And next year, we said that we will increase with now foundry coming online, we'll increase the capacity to INR 12,000. So in terms of the execution numbers, no, we have never mentioned INR 10,000.
That means for FY26, we are looking for just 10% kind of growth, right?
Yeah, 10 to FY26. On the wagon business, yes, a 10%-15% kind of a growth, but the growth is going to come from, as I mentioned, from the other businesses. The wheel business is going to—it'll be a more than 100% growth there. The brake business is going to see a substantial growth because, as I had committed, in this year, we have started our supplies. The container business is already doing quite well. It's already profitable. We are going to be launching our ELCVs very shortly. As I mentioned in my opening remarks, there's a substantial demand. I think the demand has been quite overwhelming for us. We have done very good partnerships, very good financial partnerships. For the first time in this segment, we are introducing a battery as a rentable product, which has never been done, which lowers the acquisition cost of the vehicle.
We have introduced programs with players such as Porter, which help the drivers to get immediate work on buying vehicles. So there's a lot of community-related things which we are doing. We have appointed now dealers in more than eight to 10 cities, and that's also expanding. So that is, I think, going to be a huge growth driver for us. Besides that, our container business is doing quite well. We have already started exporting containers to the North American market as well as the European market. So there will be growth from, definitely, there'll be a growth from this year. But as I've always maintained that by 2027, 2028, we want wagons to be less than 50% of our revenues. And I think that is where we are working towards.
And I think in a deal call, you also mentioned a target of INR 8,000-INR 10,000 CR by FY28. So is that target intact?
Yes, definitely. That target is completely intact. And that is where, that's what I was coming to, where in terms of the wheel business, the container business, the auto business, the brake business will constitute a substantial part of those revenues.
So these businesses are going to contribute significantly in FY26. So what kind of overall growth in top line are we looking to in FY26? Over and above what we expect in FY25?
So in FY26, we are looking at a revenue of close to INR 5,000 crore. I think that is what we have targeted.
Thank you. A reminder to participants to please limit your questions to two per participant. Next question is from Rajesh Pandhari from Nakoda Engineers. Please go ahead.
Good evening, sir. And congratulations for the good numbers. Hello.
Yeah. Thank you, Rajesh.
Yeah. Sir, what I am seeing is that quarterly turnover is more or less INR 20 crore, INR 30 crore, INR 50 crore [Foreign language] same [Foreign language] . Profit also more or less same. Though our operating profit margin and net profit margin percentage is good, but because of the very high equity, [Foreign language] , sir, that is coming down to around 2 or so. Not even 10 EPS is coming in per year basis. Anyway, how this can be improved?
See, Rajesh ji, you have to also understand that the company is in a growth phase where, as I've told you, we are starting to invest in, especially on the wheel side of wheel business, we are making some major investments, and that investment will take about two years, two to two and a half years to play out. I think once that investment plays out and you start seeing the revenues from that business, you will see a substantial growth also happening, and the earnings per share also will increase considerably, because the company touches revenues of close to INR 8,000-INR 10,000 crore, and we expect the EBITDA margins to remain strong, so you will see that play out.
INR 8-INR 10,000, which year, sir, you are expecting?
As I mentioned, 27, 28 is when we have.
Okay. And these containers, you are the only company, sir, in India for containers?
No, there are others, but I think in terms of we are specializing in, especially in battery storage containers and the containers, that's there. I think we have quite a substantial lead in the country because, again, we are one of maybe we are the only ones exporting also in a substantial manner.
Okay. Double-decker wagon tippler [Foreign language] , sir, good? Double-decker? Like Texmaco is planning?
No, I don't know anybody. I'm not aware of any. The only double-decker wagon which is there is for auto cars. And I think we are the only ones today in the country who are making auto wagons which can carry SUVs on both the decks. And recently, we have got the approvals also from RDSO, and we have huge order books from companies like Maruti on that. So we are very, very gung-ho on that business, and we expect it to be a strong contributor.
Thank you. The next question is from Surabhi Saraogi from SMIFS Capital Markets. Please go ahead.
Hello. Am I audible?
Yeah. You're audible, Surbhi.
Sir, I just need a clarification. In your opening remarks, you said that with the acquisition of Jupiter Tatravagonka, your revenue is set to double. So.
No, I did not say it will double. I said the revenues of the business, the business which you have acquired, will double this year, and next year, we expect further doubling of the revenues.
Okay. So the revenue of Jupiter Tatravagonka will double?
Yes. Yes. And next year, we are looking to further doubling those revenues.
Okay. Okay, sir. Got it. And sir, one last question regarding the electric mobility segment. What was the order confirmation that you said for the vehicles and lithium-ion battery systems? If you can repeat that point?
We are going to be launching a vehicle in February end. We have an order book of more than 500, which is there with us, which post-launch will be delivering those vehicles. On the lithium space, what we have said is that now we have already got 10 orders from Indian Railways to supply best batteries to them. We expect that because Indian Railways, again, has taken initiative now to go green. I think that business is going to grow in a substantial manner in the next two to three years.
Okay. Okay, sir. Thank you.
Thank you. Next question is from Swanand Samant from Klay Group. Please go ahead.
Hey. Hi. Thank you for taking my question. So my question is again on the order book. So our order book kind of peaked out in March, right? From there, it's gotten quarter decreasing because of the kind of expedited execution that we have. So again, on the wagon order book, which we have, which would be the majority of the order book, now the main order which came in 2022, correct me if I'm wrong, so that would be at the back end of the execution cycle, right? So with your conversations with the railway, how confident are you for, again, having such a mega order in this year? That would be my first question.
Okay, so as you must be aware, that more than 50% of our execution is our private orders. Railway orders are also very critical to that. We have been adding private orders at a very, very fast pace, and as you have seen that most, as you rightly mentioned, that about a year and a half back is when the railway issued their substantial order books, so after that, if you look at our growth in the order book, it is mainly on account of the private order books, and we continue to see a lot of momentum there, so that order book will keep on building. On the railway side, we are very confident that in the next three to four months, railway will come out with a strong tender. In terms of the quantity, again, I cannot tell you how much the quantity will be.
We anticipate it to be substantial. Obviously, it will not be on account, it will not be as high as those 70, 80 thousand numbers because that was on a certain that time, the base was very low. The railway had given those kind of orders. You can also understand that the industry is today also has close to about 18 months of order books in hand. Again, the numbers will be substantial, but very difficult for right now to tell me exactly what kind of numbers it will be.
Okay. Got it. Got it. And second, again, so for past few quarters, we had that stance that we won't be kind of getting into manufacturing of the Metro or the Vande Bharat coaches as such because the competition there is aggressive, and it doesn't matter company profile margin on the margin side. So do you still kind of have the same stance, or do you want to kind of get into that?
No. Vande Bharat is something, as I've clearly mentioned, that we are not. It is not in our immediate scope. And we also don't see a lot of any kind of Vande Bharat orders going to the private sector. So as I've mentioned clearly, that majority of the order books are going to come on the component side where we are very strong. As we have seen that we have started supplying brake systems, brake discs to the Indian Railways. Brake discs, we are the biggest today. Right now, we are one of the biggest suppliers. Brake systems also, I think now we are supplying, we have increased our supplies, and next year, we expect that business to also do very well. Beyond that, again, in couplers, we are again a major supplier of couplers for the passenger business for the Indian Railways.
So I think on the component side, you will see a lot of growth which is going to happen because the railway refurbishment is going to happen for those 40,000 coaches. Plus, railways, their internal coaching program is quite substantial, which the railway workshops are going to manufacture. So yeah, we are very clear on that. On the Metro side, we have already mentioned that we have an MOU with CAF, and we are participating in certain tenders with them. So as and when one of those tenders fruitifies, so Metro is something definitely in partnership with CAF we are looking to enter.
Okay. Got it. Got it. And so I had one more question. So we have the European partner as our shareholder as well. So we always talk about when the wheel manufacturing will come in in 2027, 2028, we would also supply to them. But on the other products which we have, brakes, couplers, gears, and everything, do we have an opportunity also to kind of supply to them as well? Because right now, I think we are not supplying to the European partner, right?
No, the brake discs, axle boxes are going to Europe. We are supplying to them. So it's not that we are not supplying to them, I think. But the biggest opportunity is definitely on the wheel sets and axles. And again, you can see from the name of that business, so it's a very strong partnership there. So that is, I think, going to be the biggest opportunity, and we are really looking forward to that.
Thank you. Next question is from Devesh Kasliwal from Antique Stock Broking. Please go ahead.
Congratulations, sir, on a good set of numbers. I have two questions. The first one was, what is the pipeline currently for the wagon orders over this current year? And the second one was, in the electric mobility, what is the overall execution that we are expecting, competitive intensity there, as well as the margin profile that we have on that?
To repeat the second question, I could not hear you.
Electric mobility. I wanted to understand the competitive intensity, the margin profile, as well as the execution, the delivery schedule over there. From the time of getting an order, what is the overall schedule that we are getting?
Okay. So on the electric mobility, right now, I think the only vehicle which is available in the market is in the segment which we are launching is Tata has a vehicle. That's the only vehicle which is available. So honestly, I don't know what vehicles are going to come in the future. So yeah, competitor, we are just one competitor in that segment right now. In terms of the capacities, I think we have set up a plan to manufacture close to 10,000 vehicles annually. I think that is the planned capacity which we have. In terms of, I think, the margins and other things, I think it's too early. Let us, I think, once we start delivering our products, I think that will become more clearer. But definitely, it is, I would say the margins are positive in that business for us.
In terms of the wagon order book, this.
Tender pipeline for this current year?
This, I think he's asking total order book which we got.
No, no, no. I'm asking what is the pipeline going ahead for this financial current year?
Right now, the private order book is.
5,500 crores.
5,500 crores of private order book which we have entirely on the wagon side. Oh, on the wagon side, the total order book is close to about INR 5,500 crores.
Sorry, sorry, sir. I was asking, going ahead, what are the tenders? How many wagon tenders are there in 2025 that we need to be visible on?
We expect a substantial tender to come from Indian Railways for the next financial year, the requirements for the next financial year. Again, to give numbers is very difficult, but we expect the numbers to be decent. As I mentioned, the private order book continues to be strong for us. So we expect at least close to more than 2,000 crores of private order book which we are going to add. And again, the Indian Railways, very difficult for me to project numbers.
Okay. Okay. Thank you so much, sir.
Thank you. The next question is from Akash from Dalal & Broacha Stock Broking. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Thanks for the opportunity. First of all, congrats, Vivek sir, on a decent set of numbers. So my question would mainly be on FY 26, sir. We are projecting a INR 5,000 crore top line there. So what kind of consolidated margins do we plan to achieve in the next year, considering that electric vehicle sales would also be embedded in that top line, right?
Yes, definitely. That will be. I think our margins, again, I will not give out any definite numbers, but what I can very confidently say is that the margins profile will be better than this financial year.
On a consolidated basis, is it? So if you are doing around 14.5 this year, so next time, it will be better than that next year?
Expect it to be better than that.
Understood. Okay. And sir, I just wanted to understand, any EV sales we are expecting this year for FY 25?
Yes, we will be because, as I've told you, February end is when we are launching the vehicle. So our deliveries will start from March onwards.
Understood. And sir, what have been the order inflows this quarter and for the full nine months this year?
Order inflows in terms of which segment?
Wagons?
Again, those numbers we don't have readily available, but we can share with you. But readily, honestly, it's not available with me right now.
Understood. Just one last question from my side. So I think you have estimated around Bonatrans, sorry, the Jupiter Tatravagonka revenue to double next year. So we are doing around 300 crore by this year, so 600 crore by next year. So out of that, how much would be captive and how much would be for third party?
See, again, I cannot give you any accurate estimation, but we expect it to be about 50/50. So 50% would be captive and 50% would be to Indian Railways and other players. Hello? Hello?
The next question is from Rohit Singh from Nvest Analytics. Please go ahead. Mr. Rohit Singh, you may go ahead with the question.
Call recording has now ended.
Hello. Hello.
There seems to be no response from the line of Rohit Singh. We'll move to the next question. The next question is from Sachin, who's an individual investor. Please go ahead.
Hi. Am I audible?
Yes, you're audible, Sachin.
Okay. Hi. Thank you for the opportunity and congratulations on a good set of results, Mr. Lohia. Just wanted to ask, what were the challenges that we faced in the launch of the EV? We've seen the timelines move a number of times, and we were actually expecting by second week of January, we would see the vehicles launch. But now we're talking about February and only a month's worth of sales. What were the challenges, and are they really ironed out, or are we expecting more challenges in terms of production, supply, and vendors, and all of that?
No, the challenges are ironed out. I don't think in terms of the launch right now, we have any further challenges. I think even in terms of the delay, it's not been substantial. It's very minor delays. I think more than the timelines, we wanted the launch to be around from January to February because there was a certain change in the battery technology, and we wanted to launch the vehicle with the upgraded battery technology rather than with the earlier battery technology. That is what caused the delay of a month and a half. Otherwise, I think we were on track.
Okay. Also, sir, the Battery as a Service, isn't it going to be heavy on our balance sheet that we need to start funding the usage, or do we actually have someone to pick up the vehicle?
No, no, no. It's not going to be funded on a balance sheet. It is, as I've mentioned in my opening remarks, that we have got into a partnership for that.
Okay.
We have onboarded partners who are going to be providing both the in terms of financing also; we have onboarded a large number of partners, and for the Battery as a Service also, we have onboarded partners.
Okay. Okay. And my second question was with regards to the enabling provision, right? We've once again gone for equity. And I don't know if you noticed, but I don't think your existing investors really give a thumbs up for dilution of equity when the revenues and profitability is not going up in the same scale, right? We're looking at 20% dilution at a time when we are growing at around 17%-18%. So why do we keep choosing equity? Debt is also possible. Do we really need to reduce the value for the shareholders? Because every time that you have been doing.
As you mentioned, it's just enabling provision. So this doesn't mean that we are going to raise money to the amount which we have taken. We expect post-tender, a lot of growth opportunities may arise. So it is, as I've mentioned very clearly, that it is just enabling resolution. And definitely, if and when, and this is just for the future growth prospects. As I've also mentioned, we don't need any equity right now to fund any of our existing businesses or the businesses which we have already announced. It is enabling resolution. And as and when, if any growth opportunity arises, definitely, we will be also looking at both a mix of debt and equity to fund that. It will not be a purely debt kind of funding.
Thank you. Next question is from Lakshmi Narayan from KSMA Wealth Private Limited. Please go ahead.
Sir, you're able to hear me?
Yes, Mr. Narayan, please go ahead.
Yeah. Sir, I just wanted to know the expected revenue for the brake business for the whole year?
Hello?
On about INR 250-odd crores. I think that's what we had projected also for this financial year. We'll be achieving that.
Okay, sir. My next question is on this battery as a service, sir. Could you just let me know the per kilometer cost we have, how much it will be right there?
I think that will be announced closer to the launch. I think that's proprietary information which right now we cannot disclose.
Thank you. Before we take the next question, a request to participants to please limit your questions to one per participant. The next question is from Jyoti Ranjan Pandey, who's an individual investor. Please go ahead.
Good evening, sir. Am I audible?
Yes, you are.
So first of all, congratulations, sir, for another fantastic number, both basically Y and Y and Q and Q. So I think a couple of questions what I have got. Do we see any potential risk, especially like this global tariff war, what's basically being called out by Trump, especially to the overseas market where we have got exposure? And additionally, sir, my follow-up question was around this QIP only, where you said that you mentioned that there is a provision for INR 3,000 crore possibly by QIP route. Is there basically a timeline where we could be thinking to utilize these for any potential opportunities? Any other further acquisitions those are planned? If you could share some details, that would be very helpful. Thank you.
On the QIP, as I've already mentioned, there is just enabling resolution. Honestly, I cannot pinpoint. Again, it is just taken an enabling resolution because we expect just keeping in mind the budget. And there are very strong indications from the government that it's going to be a very growth-oriented budget with a lot of railway capex which is going to be announced. So beyond that, we keep on evaluating opportunities. So if anything, if we find that anything which is lucrative and which adds substantial value to the company, that is something we can also look at. But yeah, and as I mentioned, it's an enabling resolution. So nothing specific other than from in terms of any kind of plans which we have. And what was your second question? Sorry.
It's in export market due to travel.
Oh yeah. No, see, as we don't have much exposure to the North American market. A lot of our sales is domestic, and otherwise, also exposure is mainly to the European market, so we don't see any kind of challenges in the European market with regard to any action that Mr. Trump takes.
Thank you. Next question is from Garvit Goyal from Nvest Analytics. Please go ahead.
Hi. Thanks for the follow-up. Am I audible?
Yes. Yes, you are, Mr. Gohil.
Sir, I just have one more question in continuation with my earlier questions only. At one time, you were saying railway is very much positive in the upcoming budget. You are looking for a fund raising also if the opportunity comes in the budget. At another point of time, you were saying we are going to just grow by a percentage of like 70%-80%. So these two things are not getting matched. So can you help me to understand what kind of growth trajectory we are targeting? What is the current outlook? What challenges are you seeing in the industry?
See, right now, what we are projecting is in terms of the current order books we have and the way we expect businesses to grow. So today, in terms of what the budget shows us, obviously, we cannot capture that till we get to know the announcements from the budget. But we are very, very hopeful that it will be a very strong budget, and it will lead to a lot of substantial growth opportunities. But honestly, we are not fortune tellers. So unless specific announcements are made, it's very difficult for us to capture that. And in terms of the growth, in the next three years, we are looking to double our revenues. So I don't see how you're talking about 15%-18% because by 2028, we are talking about revenues of close to 8 to 10 thousand crores.
So it's basically doubling our revenues from this financial year.
Thank you. Next question is from Abhijit Mitra from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Thank you for the opportunity, sir. So my question is, we've been talking about pretty strong demand coming in from the wagon segment, both the Indian Railways and the private side. So what could be a key risk that these orders, the demand that we anticipate of around 35-45 K per annum, that the risk to this number not coming through or getting delayed beyond a point? Because as I understand, all these orders are quite lumpy. The last huge order we got was about two years back. So I mean, there is no regularity in terms of the ordering from both these pockets. So what could be a key risk that could lead to a delay in orders or maybe orders not meeting our expectation of this kind of huge demand?
I think it's a very valid question which you've asked. So on the private side, the order books are not lumpy. So we get regular order books. So there, as I've told you, we expect the order books to remain strong. On the Indian Railways side, see, you have to also realize that they had released an order book for three years of execution. So we had built capacities, and we were executing those orders. And I think those orders will get executed by the coming financial year. So we expect Railways to come up with substantial tenders. But obviously, it will be those. It will not be. You don't expect those 70-80 thousand numbers to repeat because those are a three-year order book. I think now we expect them to be more of annualized kind of order books which Railways will release.
So definitely, I think there will be orders coming from Indian Railways because they have been growing their infrastructure substantially. They have been making a lot of investments in the infrastructure, especially also on the freight infrastructure. They have already, in the last budget, they have announced three more freight corridors for which I believe work has already started. So we don't see a lot of challenges in terms of those order books not coming through.
Right. So you're saying that by FY26, we will be able to execute the previous cycle of orders that we bought?
Yes.
Yes.
The new order, obviously, will get executed in FY27.
Right. And what will be a typical time from the bidding start to the execution, to the time when we get the orders finally?
Typically, if you stretch it, also it's about four to six months kind of a cycle.
So it's not that long, right?
Not very long.
All right, sir. So that is my question. Thank you so much.
Thank you. The next question is from Richa from Equitymaster. Please go ahead.
Thank you for the opportunity. My question is, what would be the mix of non-wagon revenue, and what is the delta margin difference between wagon and non-wagon segment of revenue?
So again, I think it's again very product specific. On the braking business, we expect the margins to be better than the wagon revenues. I think on our container business, as the CV business is a new business for us, so right now, I don't think I'll be in a position to comment on that. The wheel business, I think right now, the margin profile is going to be very similar. I think once we are able to set up our integrated facilities, we expect the wheel margins to improve considerably. And that is why I'm very confident that going forward, our margin profile of the company is going to improve.
For wagons, what kind of margins do we make?
I think about close to, again, it depends from order to order. So readily, that number is not available with me, but we can share the same with you.
Okay. And sir, any kind of mix within the wagon order books, what kind of share do we expect from the private versus what is the current mix between the private and the public?
I would mention that right now, it's close to 50%. 50% of our order book is private, and the rest is Indian Railways. Again, I think on a long-term basis, we expect it to remain the same because we have a lot of private order books right now which have very long-term visibility.
Okay. And sir, in the CV segment, I know it's too early, but you would have some kind of number in your mind that this should be the margin that you should be making. So what that number would be?
I think right now, our focus is to launch the vehicle, establish our dealer network, our service network. I think margins is something which I think is not something which we are currently focused on. So this is where we are working. But as I mentioned, that definitely margins are going to be positive for us.
Okay. Okay. Thank you and all the best.
Thank you very much. We'll take that as the last question. I would now like to hand the conference back to the management team for closing comments.
Yes. Thank you, everyone, for your set of questions. We are very excited about the opportunities ahead and remain committed to driving substantial growth, operational excellence, and innovation. With a strong financial foundation, a robust order book, and a steady build-out of capacities and capabilities, we are well positioned to capitalize on the sector's growth momentum. Thank you for taking the time to join our earnings call, and we look forward to interacting again next quarter.
Thank you very much. On behalf of Jupiter Wagons Limited and Systematix Group, that concludes the conference. Thank you for joining us, ladies and gentlemen. You may now disconnect your lines.