Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to NIIT Learning Systems Limited Q2 FY 2024 Earnings Conference Call. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in a listen-only mode, and there will be an option to be free to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during this conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Vijay Thadani, Vice Chairman and Managing Director, NIIT Learning Systems Limited. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you. Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you very much for joining us on this call. As always, it's a busy season, so your time with us is very precious for us, and we would like to take the maximum advantage of that. Also wanted to just revisit the fact that for NIIT Learning Systems Limited, which is a demerged entity out of NIIT Limited, and which got listed on 8th of August. This is the Q1 as a listed entity. Therefore, we are sharing the results of the quarter ending September, which happens to be the Q2 of the fiscal year. The agenda is to give you a quick update on the demerger and listing process, which I just finished. Actually, the process got completed.
The entity is listed, and today, the board met to declare the quarter two results. While I will request Sapnesh to share with you the results, I and many of you would have access to those already, I just wanted to reiterate the fact that the board also declared an interim dividend of INR 2.5, which is INR 2 and 50 paise per share of face value of INR 2. So Sapnesh will take us through the results and the analysis of the results, as well as outlook for the coming times, and then we can get into Q&A. Thank you.
Thanks. Thanks, Vijay, and thanks, everyone, for joining this call. We appreciate your interest in NIIT Learning Systems Limited. I will focus on the operating performance of the company for the Q2 of financial year 2024. The revenue for the quarter was INR 3,819 million. It was up 27% year-on-year, but flat quarter-on-quarter. Please note that the financials include the impact of the acquisition of St. Charles Consulting Group, which the company acquired in November of 2022. The consolidated scheme of arrangement for the demerger of the business from NIIT Limited and Coforge Private Limited. Including St. Charles, the revenue was up 7% year-on-year and up 2% quarter-on-quarter. In constant currency terms, the revenue was up 21% year-on-year, but down 2% quarter-on-quarter.
EBITDA was at INR 910 million, which was up 58% year-on-year, but down 2% quarter-on-quarter. EBITDA margin was 24%. The margin was up 264 basis points versus the Q2 of last year and down 34 basis points quarter-on-quarter. The depreciation was INR 170 million. This includes the impact of the full quarter of rental expenses that NIIT Learning Systems Limited has taken on post the demerger. The other net net other expenses were at INR 66 million. This includes treasury income of INR 64 million on a ForEx gain of INR 14 million, exceptional expenses of INR 43 million, predominantly related to the demerger, including INR 38 million was stamp duty and net finance cost of INR 95 million. The profit after tax for Q2 was INR 469 million.
This was up 27% year-on-year. The EPS was INR 3.50 per share, as compared to INR 2.80 same quarter last year. Despite the EBITDA being similar to Q1 of the current fiscal year, the PAT is lower quarter-on-quarter due to higher taxes and scheme-related expenditures. As stated earlier, while the prevailing uncertainty in the environment continues to impact the quantum volume of consumption of services by our existing customers, our long-term prospects continue to improve. The company continues to accelerate new customer acquisitions, increase its wallet share, and maintain a track record of 100% renewal of contracts. During Q2, the company added four new managed training services customers. This is the third successive quarter with an addition of four customers. These included one large industrial and chemical company, one top four professional services firm.
A global asset management company and a global, or international development organization. In addition to the four new contracts, there were four renewals, out of which two were expansions. So the new contracting activity, as well as the renewal activity, continues to be as per our expectations, which was to continue to accelerate. The number of active managed training services customers now stands at 85, and with these additions and expansions, the visibility for the business as on September 30, 2023, is at $350 million. The balance sheet continues to be strong, although there is a temporary increase in working capital required to transition some of the contracts which were held at NIIT Limited to NIIT Learning Systems Limited post completion of the demerger. We expect this temporary phase to get over soon.
The DSO was at 46 days, as compared to 42 last quarter and 41 QOQ, subsequent to the temporary increase in working capital. Cash balance is at INR 5,858 million. The net cash is at INR 4,809 million. This includes the impact of temporary increase in working capital, as well as the closing of the EUR 3 million investment in EIT InnoEnergy, which was consummated in this last quarter. Headcount increased by 78 quarter -on -quarter to 2,468. The ramp-up was to take care of the transition, customers added in the previous quarter. NIIT Learning Systems Limited continues to make disproportionate investment in sales and marketing and new capabilities, as we had discussed in the past.
During the quarter, as I pointed out just a minute ago, we made a strategic investment in EIT InnoEnergy, to open up the green energy sector for activity, where we can gain managed training services customers as large organizations or startups start to make their mark in the decarbonization journey. We are also investing and making rapid progress in leveraging AI across multiple aspects of our work. As I have pointed out in the past, AI is going to materially impact work that not just we do, but the work that our customers do as well, and investments in the area of AI will hold us in good stead as we bring value to our customers. The sales pipeline continues to be strong, and the environment is aiding, given the higher propensity to outsource given the uncertainty.
We're also actively seeking to invest in organic growth and we will let you know about activity in this area as something material comes up. As stated earlier, when we announced our annual results for FY 2023, we had expected the first half of FY 2024 to be flat. Our results are approximately in line with that guidance. As guided, we've seen an acceleration in deal velocity, and that's visible in the new customer additions that I talked about, and our pipeline continues to be robust. As a result of deal win, the deal wins have accelerated, and we continue to see 100% customer retention. While the rebound in consumption is taking longer than we had expected, we expect that the new customer acquisitions will help bring growth momentum back as consumption starts to stabilize and pick up.
While the medium to long-term fundamentals of the business are improving, sequential growth is challenged in the near term as the positives are being offset to a great extent by the compression in spending by existing customers due to the prevailing economic uncertainty. Although recovery is delayed, we expect to see some sequential growth in H2, driven predominantly by new customer additions. Based on this, we now expect a growth rate from a year-on-year perspective for FY 2024 to be in the early to mid teens. We expect the margins to be in the 22% to 24% range for the full year.
We think that over time, as the spending levels come back to what is normal and considered healthy, and given the transformations that most of our customers and entire industry segments are going through, we expect that most industries will invest in training to ensure that they are able to achieve talent and skills that they need to complete the transformations that they have embarked upon. I think that is what will ensure that we continue to grow at 20%+ from a year-on-year perspective in the long run. With that, I wanted to close out my prepared comments and hand you back to Vijay and the moderator for our Q&A.
Thank you very much. We now begin the Q&A session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on your touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. Participants, you may press star and one to ask the question. The first question is from the line of Sunil Bhansali from Goodwill Share & Stock Brokers. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi, my first question was about the one-off 30% tax and the expense and the exceptional items. So could we assume that exceptional items are done for now on the merger-related expenses? And second, what is the reason for higher tax?
The reason for higher tax, there are a couple of reasons. The first one is that in Q1, we had got a benefit, a one-time tax benefit, which we did not accrue in quarter two. And second, we had a higher incidence of tax because of movement of, or a dividend from one subsidiary to another to take care of a capital investment. So from an overall perspective, as we look ahead, we think that our tax rate will be in the area of 27% going forward.
Okay, and the M&A expenses, like demerger expenses?
Yeah. So demerger expenses are one-time expenses, for example, stamp duty. And, by the way, tax rate also gets affected by that because it gets expensed out. It does not get to a tax benefit.
Okay.
Therefore, also, the tax rate appears higher.
Going ahead now, exceptional items would be largely done, the demerger related?
Yeah, those are done. But, let Sanjay, our CFO, let him explain to you. Some of them are of a continuing nature, you will see those. So, Sanjay, yes.
So the exceptional expenses, as we mentioned, this time were more related to the stamp duty, which any other incidents of that. But other legal expense and other things will not be there anymore. There is an assessment of financial charges, basically. Sorry, the certainly expenses relating to NIIT options which are there, those will continue, but they will keep going down each quarter. This is pre-demerger, whatever NIIT options were there for NLSL, basically, are under the other miscellaneous expenses. Those will not be issued anymore.
Okay. So continuing question, actually, I had about our ESOP dilution policy, our ESOP policy, you know, around how much equity are we diluting every year with ESOP, on longer term basis? Hello?
I'm sorry, we are not able to understand what you're saying. Maybe one of us can.
Is there a policy to dilute a fixed portion of equity in terms of ESOP every year? Is there a guidance related to this?
Yeah.
The company does have an ESOP policy. At this point of time, NIIT Learning Systems, because it has just got listed, its ESOP policy is not yet approved by its AGM. And therefore, I can't say that we have an approved policy. NIIT Limited had an ESOP policy, and many people who have moved from NIIT into NLSL have got that ESOP grandfathered into their consignment. Which means that if they had unvested options, then those options will vest as per the schedule, and they will get one share of NIIT and one share of NLSL. NLSL will have to bear the expenses of all the shares which have been given to NIIT, options given to NIIT. And NIIT will have to bear all the options of NLSL people, then when they get exercised.
I think that's the way the expenses get worked out. If you like, we can talk to you and explain to you in a chart how it works.
No, no, that's good enough. Just my last question was, you know, we have a substantial business in Canada, so how's the geopolitical thing, how's it going over there? Are we facing any issues with data or anything?
We haven't faced any issues.
Okay. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Press star and one to ask a question. Next question is from the line of Shraddha, Formation Market Securities. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi. A couple of questions. The first is, generally, in every Q3, we see some budget flush happening. So do we expect this kind of a flush this time as well?
Are you going to ask your next question, or you want me to respond to this one first?
Just first answer, then she'll think over the next.
Well, the flush is indicative of budgets that organizations want to use so that they don't use them. In,
At a time when budgets are compressed, while in some customers there might be, but, it's not something to write home about.
Okay. So, sir, in your new guidance, if even if you assume a 12% growth, the ask rate is close to 3% for the next two quarters. So how comfortable are we at the new guidance, or do we see a chance of further cutting guidance if you know that a 3% growth doesn't come by in the next two quarters? I mean, is there any chance of a further cut because the macro situation still remains very volatile?
So, in none of what I'm going to say, I want to mention that the macro situation is not volatile and will not continue to stay volatile. It is uncertain, and it is likely to stay uncertain. We have added 12 new customers in the last three quarters, and those customers, some of them have ramped up, and some of them are in the process of ramping up. That gives us most of the confidence to be able to see the sequential growth that we are looking for. Now, we don't expect the bottom to fall off. And so, while there are some risks, but not very substantial.
Okay. And on the revenue visibility numbers, I mean, why is there a drop this time as well? I do understand that it has also to do with, you know, the top accounts not doing well. But given the fact that you've been adding new clients, so shouldn't that number start trending up now?
Well, like you pointed out, when we add new customers or renew contracts, that number goes up. But, as customers consume, so, as we accrue revenue, that number goes down, as well as if we see compression in spends of certain customers, we, on our own accord, take down the visibility for the balance of the contract and bring it down to, the run rate that we have seen. So those are the balancing factors. This quarter, what's been taken down or what's been consumed is a little bit higher than what's been added. In a number of previous quarters, what's been added tends to be more, so it's a little bit of a seesaw.
Okay. Sir, just last question. Earlier, our indication on tax rate used to be in the range of 19% to 20%. Now we are indicating a 27% tax rate. So why is there a change in our commentary on tax rate?
See, the tax rate was lower because we were accruing benefits with respect to carry forward tax benefits that we had from the past. Those have been consumed, and we don't see any leftovers going forward. So what you see going forward is going to be the normal tax rate that you would take on top.
Yeah, just to add, so there will be normal tax rates, which will be there, and certain notional expenses which are not eligible for tax, also add up to the effective tax rate. That's why we are saying that, you know, with some benefits, if at all, we are able to, then we will be in the vicinity of 27%.
Okay. Thank you. If I have any follow-up, I'll come again later. Thanks.
Thank you.
Thank you. Next question is from Lana Darshi, from Crown Capital Partners. Please go ahead.
Hi. Thank you so much for taking my question. Gopa audible?
Yes.
Yeah. So just wanted to know, with our guidance that you've given, maybe like in terms of margin, we in this quarter we include some one-off expenses before which revenue increasing wouldn't margin be bit better than what we are indicating in terms of margin. That's why I asked. And on the growth that we are expecting, maybe FY 2024 might not be highly growth. So FY 2022 can have a disproportionate growth. So, you know, generally, do you have any target that, you know, you can maybe do in FY 2025, maybe can we, you know, at a level keep it compressed growth, so that, you know, it may even touch something that you think that, you know, can go higher?
So I heard two questions. Your line was a little bit choppy, but I think your first question was that, given the one-time expenses are behind us, would we see better margins? The margins that we've guided are EBITDA margins, so we are predominantly excluding any one-time expenses. One of the reasons why margins will be compressed a little bit starting Q2 would be the impact of the wage increases that we have done starting at October of 2023. That would be one of the key reasons for the impact to margin. I think your second question was, do we expect growth growth rates to break out in FY 2025?
I don't think the uncertainty is going to act like a switch where, while the switch is turned off right now, it will suddenly turn back on. We will see gradual improvement in growth rates over 25, I think. And as uncertainty lifts, we will start to see a healthier consumption environment.
How much growth are we expecting, sir?
Early to mid-teens. The question was 24, correct?
Yes. Hello, hello, hello. Sorry, sorry. I think my line was some-- Am I okay right now?
Yes, go ahead.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sorry, sorry. I wanted to ask, anticipation in the 2024, how much growth rate are we expecting, sir?
Early to mid-teens.
Okay. And just, I just had a bit of a new because I'm just looking to understand, how does our revenue visibility work? Like, the contracts that we have are over what period of time, and, you know, how does that, how do we just, you know, just, brief explanation of how we have, how that all can be interpreted. Because as you see, some things got consumed and some things, you know, are not getting added. Just, you know, a brief something.
I'll try to do that. It's the summation of the run rate value on a contract times the number of quarters left on the contract. So let's say we have a contract that was set up for a period of three years. Let's assume that we have completed 1 year of that contract, and let's assume that that contract is running at $1 million per quarter. So then when we set up that contract for 3 years, we would have taken the visibility of $12 million. Given that we have completed 1 year of the contract, we would have reduced from that $12 million, $4 million of visibility, and therefore, the balance that's left would be $8 million.
Now, in this period of one year, if the run rate on that contract went down, let's say, from $1 million to $750,000, or conversely, the run rate went up from $1 million to, say, $1.5 million, then what we would do is, we would revise the visibility against that contract for the balance period to show the current run rate on that contract. And then, what I described to you is one line item in such a list, and, we tally up all 85, or all active customers and sum that up, and that's the visibility. Of course, every, at every quarter, we add the new customers that we add to the list, as well as if we have any renewals, we add that, and we come up with a number.
Oh, thank you so much. I think that I understood. Just one final question. This $3 million visibility, on a rough time, what would be the average length? Like three years, two years, what would be expected?
Nine quarters is the weighted average.
So, thank you.
Nine quarters.
Nine, right?
Yeah, nine quarters. So about two, a little over two years.
Oh, oh, okay. Thank you. Thank you so much, sir. So all the best, sir. Thank you.
Thank you.
Rashil, do you have any follow-up question?
No, no. Thank you. Thank you so much, sir. Thank you.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Sarang, from RW Investment Advisors. Please go ahead.
Hello. Thank you for the opportunity. I hope I'm audible.
Yes.
Good evening, sir. I have two business-related questions and a couple of bookkeeping questions. Generally, how is the revenue model with client structured? Is it per learner basis, per employee, or is it per year or per project basis also?
Do you want to ask all your questions first, or do you want me to respond to one at a time?
I'll just ask both and respond.
Okay. So, the way we look at revenue or the way we bill each customer is based on transactions that we do with our customers. We have different ways in which we deliver services. For example, we could be training or delivering training to our customers, employees, or partners or customers. We could be creating training materials for them. We could be providing services to manage, schedule, and run classes for them. We could be providing services to buy third-party training for them. We could be building learning technologies for them. Some of these services, we, they close down as transactions when we write contracts or statements of work with our customers. So a statement of work could be running a class, a statement of work could be creating training programs, a statement of work could have.
Managing training programs or buying training on their behalf. We price each transaction based on what the transaction typically costs a customer to do. To that we put our margin and then come up with a mechanism for charging our customers for the transaction. Every month, we tally up how many transactions we did and send our customers a bill against the transactions. So, like I pointed out, a transaction could involve delivering training to many employees, in which case we will get paid by the employee. In some transactions, it could be creating learning programs, which would result into billing our customers on the number of hours of training we created for them, and so on, so forth. So it is transactional in nature.
We set up price per transaction, and we bill them on a monthly basis for the transactions which they consume.
That was very elaborate and okay. So when you say, there comes a renewal, it means that they stick as a customer?
Say that again. I couldn't completely understand.
Yeah. So when you, when you say 100% renewal rate, does it mean that they will stick as a customer to NIIT?
Yes. Yes. So, like I pointed out earlier, a typical contract tends to be three to five years in duration. And let's say a customer's contract comes up for renewal. So let's say if a customer's contract was for three years, and we are coming up towards the end of that contract period, they have an opportunity to renew the contract. And, when we say that we have a 100% renewal record, what that means is every time a contract that has come up for renewal and the customer, the customer has renewed it, with NIIT.
Understood. Also, your top five customers, could you please tell which industry they would primarily be in?
No, we don't talk specific to the customers. But suffice it to say that some of our key customers are in the technology and telecom space. Some of them are in BFSI, and so on, so forth.
Okay. A few bookkeeping questions. So, could you please quantify the financial charges that will continue as part of the exceptional expense?
The financial charge on a notional basis at this point in time is INR 60 million for the quarter. It will be in a similar vicinity as we go forward.
Yeah.
There'll be a determination which happens on the earn-out, which will happen in Q4. Based on that, it will then, next year onwards, or Q4 onwards, it will be lower, and then again, it builds up as we go.
Okay. So the other receivables and other financial current, which is referred as strategic sourcing services. By looking at your H2 balance sheet, also I've presumed that this year is quite significant. Could you please explain what this really pertains to?
Sure. So, one of the services, as I was explaining to you, the services that we offer. One of the services we offer is to buy training from third-party vendors on behalf of our customers. We call that service as strategic sourcing. And we do not recognize revenues that are transacted between vendors and our customers as top-line revenue. We only recognize the profit-bearing part of the transaction as revenue. Whereas, the transaction, which is a customer buying materials from a third-party vendor and then paying for it through us, is treated as a pass-through transaction. The balances of these pass-through transactions are reflected on the balance sheet as digit sourcing-related current assets.
Sure, sir. Sure. And the final question, sir, fair value loss on contingent consideration, just putting finance cost, right? This is arising from the revaluation of particular assets with respect to the scheme of arrangement as well?
I think I just clarified, this is the fair value adjustments on deferred earn-out consideration. This is what I mentioned, INR 60 million at in this quarter.
Okay.
Relating to St. Charles acquisition. And the first earn-out determination will happen in the beginning of next year, in the Q1, calendar quarter. And based on that, thereafter, it'll be for the residual period, which again, will keep reducing every year. But for a year, it'll remain in the same vicinity going forward.
Okay. Sure. Thank you so much, and I'll be back.
Thank you.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Narender from Robo Capital. Please go ahead.
Hi, thanks for the opportunity. Two questions. The first one is regarding your strategic investment in the EIT InnoEnergy company. So, what kind of market does it open up, you know, in terms of size? What kind of market size does it open up to us?
So, the market segment that it opens up is what we are calling the green energy or the renewable space. There are a number of companies from variety of segments that are entering that segment. These include automotive majors, industrial majors, energy companies, net new companies who are setting up giga factories. So it opens up a host of new green energy oriented companies.
Is there a market size that you could, you know, point at? You know, number is very difficult to provide.
I think one way of looking at it is that most energy majors are looking at 2050 as a cutoff year when they will transition to green energy.
I see. Right.
So if you were to look at a typical top 10 energy company, they are about a $200 billion average. That's the size of an energy company. And if you were to restrict this market just to the top 10 energy companies, it's $200 billion times 10. But that's not where the market is going. Utilities, net new battery companies, automotive companies, and so on, so forth, are entering the space. So this business is going to be several trillion dollars.
Okay. Okay, got you.
Over a period of time. Not today, but over a period of time.
Yeah, yeah. Got you, got you. And the second question was regarding the sourcing talent. So are we facing any kind of challenges on this side, or are we good, good guys?
We are okay on talent. We do a number of things to ensure that the talent that we have continues to be happy and well looked after. So we have better than industry averages on retention, and we've not had any challenges in recruiting great talent.
Okay, okay. Got you. And, one last question. So, for example, if a company is, you know, earning like some X amount of revenue, so what part of it, you know, on an average, goes into training? I mean, what percentage comes into, your pocket?
So typically, an organization spends about $1,000 to $1,100 per employee on training, or approximately 1% of their revenue on training. That's the typical average.
Ballpark.
Ballpark average. The global training market is, depending on the report you read, tends to be in the $400 billion space. Today, from an outsourcing perspective, we believe that the penetration is at about multi-ten, and, we believe there is very significant headroom, given that about two-thirds of that market is, in wages of people who work for companies and their L&D organizations.
Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Got it. All the best. All the best.
Thank you.
Next question is from Ganesh Shetty, individual investor, please go ahead.
Hello, sir. Good evening. Can you please update the performance of St. Charles during this quarter? I just also wanted to know whether there are any prospective customer of St. Charles becoming customer of ours. Can you please throw some light on this?
We don't share specifics around.
Sorry to interrupt you. One moment. Ganesh, may I just sort of mute your line, please? Go ahead.
Thanks for your question, Ganesh. We do not share specifics about a line item across NIIT's revenue. However, suffice it to say that St. Charles has done better than what they had projected at the time of acquisition. In terms of customers where we may have been able to gain synergy, like I pointed out earlier in the call today, we've been able to add one large professional services company as a managed training services customer.
My second question is regarding our EIT InnoEnergy . Technically, which is now,
Ganesh, we are not able to hear you.
Hello. Can you hear now, sir?
Yes.
Yeah. So,
Sorry, we,
Yeah. Sir, can you hear me now?
Now, perfect.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Sir, I want to know, after the team merger and becoming a wholly independent company, and now we are out for acquisition. And are you looking for acquisition which add to our skill gap or geography? Suppose it, let's say, is adding new customer set. So is there any specifically where you are focused?
Sure. That's a great question. I would say, if there was a way to look at past to predict our future, that might help answer the question. So yes, we look at acquisitions that help create new capabilities or get us involved in new geographies or in new market segments. That's t hose are the three key areas that we look at when we look at an acquisition. If you take the example of St. Charles, while they were in the U.S. geography where we already have presence, but they have significant presence in the management consulting and professional services firms, where we as an IT did not have a lot of penetration. So that helped us penetrate the professional services and management consulting company segment.
Prior to that, we had acquired Eagle Productivity Solutions, who had significant penetration in the life sciences segment. Post that acquisition, today, almost 10% of our revenue comes from the life sciences segment. Both of these acquisitions are evidence of the strategy that we use to make acquisitions. One, to gain new capability, second, to add a new customer segment or a new geography. In terms of geographies, we are looking at expansion in Europe. We will look at continental Europe as a geography to open up through acquisitions. There are a number of capabilities that we've identified, which could help improve the share of wallet for our customers, and we would be looking at acquisitions to add those capabilities as well.
Similarly, we've identified market segments that we want to penetrate, such as automotive and others, which we've identified for acquisition as well.
Thanks a lot, sir. That's all from all.
Thank you.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Pooja Doshi from Saral Management. Please go ahead.
Thanks for this question. This low to mid-teen revenue growth guidance you gave is organic growth?
This is for the company consolidated in constant currency.
Okay. And, so what is the mix of our full-time versus part-time trainers, if you could give that number, please?
You said specifically for trainers?
Yeah.
That's approximately 25, 75. 25 full-time and 75% part-time or contractors.
Okay. What is the different, the payout policy to the company?
I will request Vijay to answer that question.
Yeah. So if you see from the time that NIIT was listed, we followed a policy of paying a consistent dividend, which would, at best remain static, or at worst remain static, but would grow marginally year on year, and would not be directly aligned with the profits of- If the profits go up and down, business environments go up and down, but the dividend payout should be consistent. That's a policy we have followed. Consistent policy and small increases every year. In the past, also, in the recent past also, that is the case. As far as NIIT Learning Systems is concerned, it is considering dividend for the first time. And this dividend actually should have been due for FY 2023.
At the time when FY 2023 results were declared, at that time, NIIT Learning Systems was not listed, and therefore, and demerger process was still in progress. So, this interim dividend, in many ways, is to continue with the tradition of a consistent payout year on year, even though in this case it is happening in the year following the, the year of, demerger.
Okay. All right. Thanks for that. So, like, a question related to the employee count. So you all have 2,300-odd employees, out of which I believe 500 of them are in the U.S., approximately. So, does this mean that most of these employees are trainers within, you know, your training is proprietary nature, like the ones in the U.S., specifically?
So, training delivery, which is what is done by trainers, is one of the four practices that we have. Practices include consulting and advisory services, learning content creation, and learning administration. In addition, we have a smaller practice that focuses on learning technologies. So, the 25, 75 split that I mentioned was for the learning delivery practice.
Okay, understood. And so what would be the cost arbitrage for our target customers in providing training in-house versus outsourcing it to likes of NIIT Learning?
We don't discuss cost arbitrage or specific margins or markups publicly, given that public information is accessed by our competitors as well.
Okay. Yeah, no worry. I think that's it for myself. Thanks so much.
Thank you.
Thank you. This question is from Linus Purventajaneja, from Fortuna Investments. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Thank you for taking my question, sir. What I want to understand is, how different are the skill sets your teams need to bring to the table, for a customer in one industry versus another industry? Or rather ask differently, you know, what does it take to service, customer from different industries, from a training perspective?
I think that's an excellent question. It might take me a couple of minutes to answer that question. Let's look at what we do. What we do is deliver training, where we have trainers who have expertise in areas that a customer wants to learn. We ensure that those trainers are able to deliver training, so that the employees or partners or customers of our customers gain the outcomes that they're looking for. Second, we create learning materials, and those learning materials are often used by trainers, or these are digital learning materials that are used directly by employees or partners or customers to learn on their own. We also often help manage learning events for our customers. Now, to answer your question on what kind of talent do we need to run our business?
When we look at trainers, those are folks who have expertise in the area of work that the customer wants us to do. So if a customer wants us to train them on how to drill a hole in the ground so that they can explore for oil, our trainers have expertise in that. But as the customer wants our trainers to teach them about how to value derivatives, our trainers would have expertise in that area. When we look at creation of learning content, our employees have core expertise in instructional design, which is focused on how to create learning materials that can generate learning outcomes. We work with third party or our customer subject matter experts to gain the industry or specific proprietary expertise that we need to teach our customers on.
Those, those are the two specific areas where we have expertise. Where we have expertise is in our ability to bring on experts who can be trainers with proprietary skills to deliver training, as well as instructional design and learning management expertise, so that we can both create content and manage the process of training at large scale globally.
Thank you, sir.
Does that answer your question?
Yes, it does. Thank you very much.
Thank you.
Thank you very much. Reminder to all the participants, you may press star and one to ask a question.
Moderator, we are in the last three or four minutes of this call, so maybe if we are limited to one last question.
We don't have anyone in the question queue. Would you like to give any closing comments?
Okay. So thank you very much. I, I think we had some very interesting questions from you, and, I also noticed some of you mentioned that we are, new to the NIIT stock, so welcome to, these meetings, and we'll be very happy to answer any further questions or provide any further clarifications. As usual, these meetings are very educative for us, because your questions also give us to ask questions on, about on ourselves, as well as explore newer avenues. So thank you very much for, participating. I do know in this busy season, your time is very precious, and thank you for taking that precious time with us. At this time, last thing to say is to thank you again, and, look forward to our further meeting. Next week, we will be...
Some of us will be in Mumbai, and in case there is a case for a face-to-face meeting, we'll be very happy to organize that. Kapil Saurabh will be able to coordinate that.
Thank you very much.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. On behalf of NIIT Learning Systems, I'm happy to conclude this conference. Thank you for joining us. You may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.