Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Punjab National Bank Q3 FY25 earnings conference call hosted by Elara Securities Pvt Ltd As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on a touch-tone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Ms. Palak Shah from Elara Securities Pvt Ltd Thank you, and over to you, ma'am.
Yeah. Hello everyone, and welcome to the Q3 FY25 earnings call of Punjab National Bank. Today we have with us the entire team of PNB, management headed by Mr. Ashok Chandra, MD and CEO; Mr. Kalyan Kumar, Executive Director; Mr. Paramasivam, Executive Director; and Mr. Bibhu Prasad Mahapatra, Executive Director. With this brief introduction, I'll hand over the call to the PNB management, PNB team, Mr. V. P. Bansal, to read out the disclaimer, post which he will hand over the call to MD sir, who will address the conference. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you, Palak Shah. The disclaimer statement is that this representation contains certain forward-looking statements apart from historical information. These forward-looking statements involve a number of risks, uncertainties, and other factors that could cause actual results to differ materially from those suggested by the forward-looking statements. Punjab National Bank undertakes no obligation to update forward-looking statements to reflect events or circumstances after the present date. Thank you. Over to MD sir.
Good evening to all the participants. I am presenting the highlights of our bank for this particular quarter, and then we will open the session for question and answer and for any clarification. Highlights of our performance, I will be giving it under three segments. One is the business parameters. Global gross business of the bank is stood at INR 26.40 trillion as of December 2024, with the yearly growth rate of 15.20%. Within the composition of this, the gross business, the total global deposit is stood at INR 15.30 trillion, with a YOY growth rate of 15.6%, and global advances is stood at INR 11.10 trillion, with a YOY growth rate of 14.8%. CD ratio of the bank is comfortable level at 72.58% as of December 2024, against 73.08% as of December 2023. The CASA share is 38.12% as of December 2024.
Coming to the profitability side, highlights are coming to the, yeah, the net interest income is stood at INR 32,025 crore, with a YOY growth of 7.8% for nine months ending 31st December 2024. There is a sequential growth in net interest income for the last 12 quarters, and our current quarter net NII is INR 11,032 crore. Our domestic NIM is 3.12% for nine months of '25, whereas global NIM is stood at 2.97%. The operating profit for nine months ended December 2024 is INR 20,055 crore, which has improved from INR 18,515 crore in the same period last year, with a growth rate of 8.3%. Our quarterly operating profit is INR 6,621 crore, which has improved from INR 6,331 crore in the same period last year, with a growth rate of 4.6%.
The net profit of the bank for the nine-month period 2024-2025 is 12,063 crore, recording a growth rate of 130.5% YOY, compared to the nine-month period of 2023-2024 at 5,234 crore. For the December quarter, net profit is stood at 5,408 crore, against 2,223 crore Q3 2023-2024, with a YOY growth rate of 102.8%. If I compare for ratios on return on assets that is stood at 1.03% for Q3 FY25 and 0.96% for nine-month FY25, achieving the guidance of our FY25. Return on equity is 19.22% for Q3 FY25, against 18.87% for nine-month financial year 2024-2025. Highlights of asset quality: as far as the asset quality is concerned, GNPA has reduced from 6.24% in December 2023 to 4.09% in December 2024. Similarly, the net NPA ratio, which was 0.96% in December 2023, has improved to 0.41% in December 2024.
The PCR of 94.28% in December 2023 has improved to 96.77% in December 2024, which is well above our guidance of more than 95% for FY25. The total fresh slippages during nine months is INR 4,457 crore and INR 1,774 crore in this particular quarter, as against 1,793 crore in Q3 of 2024 and INR 2,181 crore in Q2 of 2025. Total recovery is stood at INR 3,412 crore for financial year 2025 Q3 and INR 10,400 crore for nine months 2024-2025. Bank has initiated a lot of digital tools. Our mobile app and the WhatsApp Banking is very, very active. The bank is focusing on building digital capabilities by using newest technology. The share of digital transaction has increased to 91% for Q3 financial year 2025, against the 88% in Q3 financial year 2024.
Highlights of capital: if I talk about the capital adequacy is 15.41% as of 31st December 2024, compared to 14.63% as of 31st December 2023. During the Q3 of 2024-2025, bank raised Tier II bonds of 3,000 crore, and the CET1 is 11.81% and Tier II stands at 10.65%, 1.88%, and 2.88% respectively. That is the growth that has happened in this particular quarter. Thank you very much, and now I open the forum for the question and answer and any clarification which anybody would like to have. Thank you.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask question may press star and one on the touch-tone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from question queue, you may press star and two. Participants, I request that you use handsets while asking your question. Ladies and gentlemen, we'll wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Mahrukh Adajania from Nuvama. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hello. Congratulations. I had a couple of questions. Firstly, congratulations on your appointment, sir.
Thank you very much.
So, thank you. So, basically, my question was that obviously you've not spent much time with PNB, but you know, over the last three, four quarters, there was a stable growth path of PNB. You know, they were kind of acquiring market share, loans, and deposits, keeping margins more or less stable, reversing provisions. So that's been strategy over the last quarters. Now, under you, do you see that change? Because that is, whenever there is a change in CEO, that is the biggest investor concern, right? That, the CEO may have his own strategy, may have his own thought process, which will always be good for the medium to long term. But how do we view it, or how do we, assess the short-term financial impact of any change in thought process? So that's my first question, and then I have a few questions on numbers.
So the question I have on numbers is that your NIM has held much more steady compared to other state-owned banks. So what would be the outlook for FOQ, right? Because your deposit growth is strong, your loan growth is also strong, and that helps, but your margin performance has been better than other PSUs. So what is the outlook here? And then what will be a steady state of credit cost? Because this quarter there were reversals, and last quarter also credit costs were very low. So what will be a steady state credit cost in FY26? So these were my questions.
First question, thank you very much, madam. In fact, we used to interact frequently there. See, the first you talked about the strategy. See, PNB has a strong legacy of 129 years, and, generally, the bank like this, we go by the system in place, which is already there in-built now. It doesn't change, with the MD and CEOs, the position changes. So whatever the growth path is there and the profitability angles are there, I think definitely we are going to continue the same momentum. Yes, some, the cost of deposit and yield on advances, some adjustments and some tweaking we would like to do, in the interest of the profitability.
And, there is enough potential, which I see, that even if some tweaking happens, in the cost of deposit and the yield on advances, we have enough kitty in the book, which will take care of my growth also and the profitability part also. We have more than 130,000 corporate book sanctions in place, and, I think, if any some adjustments which we need to do in the yield on advances, low yield advances, assets, I think we have enough cushion to do that, and we will maintain the growth which is there in the PNB for the last three years. I think that growth momentum will be there, and I can assure you, that, the profitability which is there in the system, I think definitely that is going to continue.
This is the core strength of the balance sheet of our bank, and the profitability part, definitely it is a very, very core strength is there now. That is the reason bank is able to maintain the NIM in the range of 2.9%-3%. The reason being is that the provision coverage ratio is already 97%, so almost the entire book is already provided. So today, whatever recovery that happens, either by way of write back of provision in the GNPA recovery and in the TWO, whatever we are recovering it, it is directly adding to my operating profit. And despite around INR 700 crore dip in the recovery in the TWO compared to the previous quarter, we are able to maintain the NIM at this level now.
And, if you see our recovery, which used to happen every quarter, in the TWO itself is more than 1,400-1,500 crore. Even if that has not happened, but we are able to maintain that, the NIM and the NII and all those key ratios. So I think that is one strength which is there in our bank is we have 91,000 crore of technical write-off of accounts. So there is enough cushion for us to recover it and maximize our operating profit, thereby maximizing the net profit of the bank. So that is going to continue, and I am very sure that in the coming quarters and the years also, the profitability part, all of you should rest assured that it is going to happen now.
Your related question is the credit cost, which I have already covered now, since already provision coverage ratio is 97%, and I am seeing for the last three quarters, our recovery is higher than the slippages. And when I'm talking about recovery, the recovery in the gross NPA, not in the TWO recovery. Recovery in the gross NPA and the upgradation which is happening in the gross NPA, that itself is higher than the slippages to the tune of around 100 to 200 crore. So in a true sense, there is a good write-back of provisions happening, and that is one of the reasons that my credit cost is very, very low. And this trend is going to continue in the coming quarters also.
Got it, sir. Thank you so much. Thanks a lot.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Ashok Ajmera from Ajcon Global. Please go ahead.
Thanks for the opportunity. Congratulations, sir, Ashok Chandra, sir, for coming and heading the largest, I mean, the next to State Bank of India Public Sector Bank with over, I think, 26 lakh crore business. With you being there, yes, we are again reassured that PNB will has almost come back and will come back further and will reach to its previous glories. You are a taskmaster, and on that note, I wish you all the best here in this bank. Having said this, sir, again, my question is on the Marukh's a little more extended this thing, that in PNB, even in this quarter also, both your business growth, I mean, credit and deposit growth has been phenomenal. I mean, so far, whatever results are declared of the other bank. Hello, am I loud enough?
Yeah, yeah, very clear, Ajmera ji.
Yeah.
So on the credit front also, it is 4.56% in this quarter, and on the deposit front also, 4.75%. And overall also, if you look at the nine months also, it is over 12%, credit and almost 13%. So, sir, going forward, are we going to maintain the same tempo for the overall business growth, especially the credit growth with you being there? That is, what kind of target we can look at? That is my first question. And, sir, second one on this other income has come down from INR 4,572 crore to INR 3,412 crores, other income in this quarter. I could not go much in detail because I was traveling and I just landed in Mumbai. So on that, is it anything one time or it is going to be maintained the same tempo of having a larger income?
Because from the written-off accounts, recovery this time is only INR 823 crore as compared to the last quarter of INR 1,404 crore. Maybe this may be the main reason. Sir, on the third question, you said you already covered that digital footprint and PNB also going very aggressive on digital digitization. So what is the exact status today and how many journeys have been completed and what kind of plan we have for making this bank fully digitized, not only in the retail but in all kinds of businesses?
Yeah, thank you, Ajmera ji. First, I'll touch the credit growth part. Yes, this quarter and this entire year, there has been good growth and the deposit has grown by 15.60% and advances 14.8% growth is there in YoY. QoQ also, what you have told is that is a fact.
I am expecting that the credit growth will continue to move in the range of 13%-14%. I think that will continue to have that, because we have already INR 1.3 trillion corporate book sanctions in place. And I am expecting that, in this quarter and subsequent quarter, all these books are going to be availed by the corporates. So there is going to be a good growth in the corporate segment. At the same time, we are going to have very focused attention and activity for the RAM sector now because that is one area I've seen that, the MSME segment, if I talk about, we have grown, in the single digit, and we are going to put a lot of focus on the RAM activity.
And you will see that in this particular quarter, there will be a good growth in the MSME segment in particular, and the overall retail also will grow substantially. So I'm expecting that my credit growth will grow in the range of 13%-14% in this particular year as a whole. Second part is the other income. See, other income, there are two components which have brought down the operating profit. First part is the Technical Write-Off. You have touched this point, compared to the last quarter and subsequent previous quarters also, we used to have around 1,400-1,700 crore recovery in the Technical Write-Off accounts. But this quarter, it is a very muted recovery has happened in the TWO, and the TWO recovery is 823 crore against 2,059 crore in subsequent, means last year, the 2023-2024 financial year and 1,400 last quarter.
That is one of the reasons why our operating profit has come down and other income also it is appearing less. Second reason is the MTM provision. Yes. I think this quarter it has affected in the negative, whereas in the last quarter, we were 700+ crore positive. So that has also put a dent on our other income, and I am expecting that some situation change should happen in this particular quarter. Even if we are not going to be positive, at least some changes should happen in this portfolio in this particular quarter. But recovery of accounts definitely is going to happen in a very, very big way in this particular quarter because we have 91,000 crore of the technical write-off book now. And there are a lot of the accounts where resolutions have happened.
We were expecting the recovery to come in this Q3. I think those accounts are getting matured, and definitely in this particular quarter, we should have a TWO recovery of around minimum 1,500-1,600. And already I have seen that targeted accounts are there, and it is going to happen now. Your third part is the digital footprint. See, both sides, one is the liability side and the asset side. Bank is in a very, very active status now. We have more than 2 crore logins and the activation is there of our PNB One mobile app. It is a big number, and I am seeing that transactions which are happening, that is also almost doubled or tripled in the last one year if I talk about. See, every average daily active users on that mobile app is 13 lakh. It used to be 9.5 lakh.
If I talk about the average daily UPI transactions, last year during the same period, it was 37,000. This year it is 1 crore 13, yeah, 1 crore 13 lakh. That is the transaction that is happening now. 1 lakh 30, 1 lakh 30, sorry. So it was 1 lakh 30 last year, and this year it is 1 lakh 13,000. So I think if we see the transactions which is happening, that reflects that digital footprint of our bank is become, become very, very strong. So this is about the liability side. If I talk about the lending side, asset side, a bank has already created the lot of journeys up to 25 lakh. We are one of the few banks who have started cash flow-based digital journey for MSME now.
Even if the MSME, those who are not having any balance sheet or any documents based on their transactions happening in that account, their credit score model, the system is inbuilt and it is totally end-to-end up to 25 lakh, and it is both for the existing customer as well as the new-to-bank customers. This is one journey which we have started just last month. Besides that, all our digital footprints in the MSME segment, this one is the 25 lakh segment, then MSME SVANidhi scheme, MSME Vishwakarma scheme. I think already, already all those things are under the digital footprint. We also have the PAPL, the personal loan. That is also against the digital by reading the account statement and other footprint which the customer has. We are also doing that. I think we have also initiated the process of renewal of our MSME book.
I think that journey has also started, and all of us know that up to 25 lakh, highest number of accounts are there under that particular segment, not only in our bank, in the banking sector as a whole. So that renewal part up to, I think, 10 or 25 lakh, that already 25 lakh. So up to 25 lakh renewal through the digital footprint already we have started. And besides that, we have also strengthened our data analytics center. We have created a lead management system, and lead management portal is there. So any customer who is banking with us, we are analyzing their transactions in the account, and we are giving the lead to our branches to follow up for the further loan requirement of that particular customer.
So, I think a lot of initiative bank has done, and going forward, I think bank is poised for a digital transformation. So that is all I can talk about, about the digital things happening in the bank.
Point well taken, sir. Just last question in this round. Sir, we have this thing at this time, it is, in the provision, we are negative INR 285 crore, you know, as compared to INR 2,088 crore in the last quarter, whereas in NP, for NPA, we have INR 317 crore provision. So in all the effect of about INR 602 crore. So, going forward, how do we see the provisioning, on account of overall provision, including NPA? And do you have some additional buffer left to be a zero provision, bank which will add up to our bottom line further?
And we will be a bank of about INR 22,000 crore profit in this whole financial year, sir.
Thank you very much for such an ambitious figure which you are giving now. But yes, I can assure you that, as far as the provisioning of the bank is concerned, the bank is adequately provided. We have 97% of provisions are there. And if I talk about the tangible provisioning, that is, if I exclude that TWO provisioning, still we have more than 90% of provision in the GNPAs also. So that gives the solution for the bank to reduce the credit cost and the write-back of provisions are going to happen in the subsequent quarters also. It is not that one particular quarter this phenomenon has happened. I think definitely the write-back of provisions will be there. Negative trend will continue further now.
Now, this additional provision which we have made, which we are talking about is INR 318 crore. This is for reducing the net NPA which we have made the provision, and that is one of the reasons our net NPA has subsequently come down compared to the last quarter.
Yes, sir. Will the moderator permit me for one more question?
Oh, yes, sir, you can go ahead.
Okay. So that is, I want to ask, to give some color on the treasury operation. Our segment-wise result, if you look, the treasury profit has come down from INR 3,339 crore to INR 2,780 crore. That is as per the segment-wise. But overall, since the treasury is very active and must be making a lot of good deals and good profit.
So in this coming quarter also, whether treasury performance and with the little sign of rates coming down, how do we stand on the treasury front and how much more the treasury can add to our bottom line in the coming quarter so as to make FY25 as INR 22,000 crore profit bank, sir? Pre-tax?
I think if I can talk about this particular quarter and because we will have to wait for the MPC to be announced and how it pans out. But two, three decisions which the RBI has taken last week, I think that is going to add to the profitability part of the treasury. One is that open market operation that INR 60,000 crore which has been announced. I think definitely that is going to add to the kitty of the treasury.
I think I am expecting some rough calculation is there around 150 crore+ should happen on account of this transaction.
And what about on the liquidity front also?
Yeah.
Liquidity front also?
Yeah, liquidity front also. So that will also ease my cost of deposit. So I think, the, we, we need to wait for the further announcement. One is the budget and, second is the MPC, how it happens. And I'm expecting that, the performance, which is there in December quarter, there will be some improvement in the treasury performance in this particular quarter.
Okay, sir. Thanks, thanks, thanks a lot, sir, and all the best to you.
Yes, definitely we will see PNB going more faster and healthier in the coming quarters. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you, Ajmera.
Thank you. The next question is from Jai Mundhra from ISEC. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi, good evening, sir, and congratulations on good numbers, and also on your appointment as MD CEO of the bank. Sir, I have a few questions. First is that I just wanted to check the other interest income this time around, right, which is 500-odd crores. Does this include any IT refund or any one-off receipts?
Yes, so there is one IT refund component there. I think 350-400 crore one component is there in this.
Okay, sure. And second thing is, sir, if you can also talk about the total SMA of the bank, including below 5 crores ticket size.
See, if I talk about the SMA one and two, I think 5 crore already it is disclosed. It is already there with all of you.
And if I talk about the SMA zero, one, two for the entire segment, it is in the range of around 7%.
Okay. So total zero plus one plus two is 7% of the overall loans, right?
Yes, yes, yes.
Okay. And would you have the bifurcation also, sir? Zero is how much, one is how much, and two is how much?
The highest of that is under the SMA zero segment. SMA one and two, it is in the range of around 4%.
So it's one and two.
Yeah, SMA one, SMA zero is the highest. And if I can give you the number, INR 49,522 crore is SMA zero, and SMA one is 14,900, means INR 15,000 crore, and SMA two is INR 13,000 crore. So, and this SMA zero also, there are most of these accounts under the retail segment.
Because of the repayment period which is set in the system and the actual repayment that happens, there is a delay of around one week, 10 days' time. That is one of the reasons SMA zero book is a little high. We are putting some system in place so that this book also gets reduced. But the SMA one and two itself, only if I take, and in fact, that is one of the concerns for any bank, that is well within our tolerance limit now.
Okay, sure. Sir, within this, with this set of SMA numbers at maybe 7% and maybe 4% of one plus two, are you confident on sustaining this current 1,700-1,800 crores kind of gross slippages? Or you think there is a chance that it may go up?
No, I am very much confident because this is not one-off of performance of this quarter. If you can track for the last one and a half years, quarter to quarter, there is reasonable slippages have happened and all are in the almost in the same range. So 1,600, 1,800, like that, only the slippages are happening. And we are very confident that we will be able to retain this slippages in the same range.
Right. Sure. And sir, we had also created floating provisions in this quarter, right? Some 250 odd crores. What is the policy? I mean, how do you, is this ad hoc provisions or there is some formula-driven policy in creating this, these provisions?
There is a proper guidelines is there and RBI also permits to have this floating provision and we have the board-approved policy also.
And under that provision, only provision set up, only this provision has been made. So this is a floating provision and as and when it is required to be made for any particular account, we will use that provision for that particular type of purpose.
Okay. And we do not make any provisions on SMA one or two, right? That is not the policy as such.
We don't provide for SMA book, but if it is any restructuring, if we are doing it, then definitely we are supposed to make some provision. And any account, I think a ll of you know that 7 June circular, if any accounts are there and any restructuring under that 7 June circular, if it is there, then we are also supposed to make a provision under that particular account.
Right. Sir, coming back to net interest income, right?
So if I strip this INR 350 crore of interest on IT refund, then the margins decline by 89 basis points, right, on QOQ basis. And in fourth quarter, as you step up on corporate loans, you know, margins may again, sort of soften, right? So, how should one look at the NIM trajectory? Because this quarter, of course, it has been aided by one-off of this interest, interest on IT refund. And as you go along, growing corporate book also, how should one think of NIM?
I will give you two parts in this. One is, we are repricing our corporate book. That is one strategy we have already initiated. And there are, I think, around INR 10,000 crore which renewals or repricing it came, and we have gone for some modification in the pricing, and it has already happened.
That is one strategy we are going to put in place in this particular quarter so that our yield on advances in this particular quarter should improve from the existing level. That is one strategy which we are doing it. Second is we are expecting that treasury income in the interest income also, some improvement will happen in this particular quarter. And as far as this one-off provision of this income tax, see, it is also happens on a regular basis also. It is not that one time it has happened. We will have to see that in this quarter also. Maybe we would like to get and some part of this income tax refund also, and that will be a part of this setup.
All put together, whatever contribution that has come through this particular setup, I think that will make a good, the loss which you are suggesting that it will not happen. And if that doesn't come, how it will happen? I think these things will take care of that part.
Right. And sir, any ballpark number that you will research for FY26 on ROA front? Would you like to sustain this 1% trajectory that we have achieved in the last two quarters? Or, you know, because as we go along in FY26, there is a rate cut, which will depress margins for all banks, including PNB. How should one think of the ROA for FY26?
See, as of now, the guidance which we have given for this financial year, that is 2.9%-3%, that we are definitely going to achieve and we will cross that.
Let us wait for the important events which are already there in the system: budget announcement, plus the MPC, how it happens. And further, we need to have a strategy meeting and board strategy discussion and what will be our plan of growth for deposits, advances, and all those different parameters. And then only we can. I think we can disclose that: what is the growth and what is the name which we are envisaging in FY26.
Fair point, sir. If I can just ask one data point, sir, what is the NPA recovery that goes to NII line item for this quarter? I mean, the NPA recovery that goes to interest income, not in the other income, but interest income, how much is that amount in this quarter?
That is around INR 400 crore, INR 645 crore, both from the GNPA recovery side also in interest component it has gone, and from the TWO recovery side also some part has gone to the interest income. And that is also every quarter, I think INR 500-600 crore, we are able to recover that. So INR 645 crore in this quarter, and maybe if you have the number for last quarter, sir, that will be very, very helpful to just get a sense. I will tell you. INR 606 crore, sir.
Okay. So it's not too much change, right?
It will not change, sir, because whatever recovery we are doing it, some part of that recovery goes to the income side, interest income side, and then it gets reduced to the book balance.
Sure.
Thank you so much, sir, and all the very best.
Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Rakesh Kumar from B&K Securities. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi sir. Could you hear me, sir?
Yes, yes. Yes.
Yeah, hi. Congratulations, sir, on the new assignment.
Thank you.
So, so a couple of questions, sir. Firstly, like, you know, even with, you know, quite good, deposit growth that we had this quarter of around 4.09, 4.9%, TD cost does not, TD, TD cost has not gone up, on a sequential basis. So, so, in case of other banks, especially the PFC banks also and the private bank also, we saw that, you know, even banks not having much deposit growth, they had witnessed, you know, deposit cost rise. So what is happening differently in our case because that protected our margin this quarter?
See, one is, we are able to mobilize sizable amount under the retail term deposit. We have one special scheme of 7.25% for more than one year. We are able to mobilize a good number of amount under that particular bucket. You also know that we are one of the largest bank under this CASA segment. INR 562,000 crore is our portfolio under the CASA. It is next to the State Bank of India, that is the highest CASA which we have now. There has been a growth also in the CASA. Despite having such a large base, there is a growth of around 2.81% that has happened in the CASA segment. All those put together, we are not seeing much strain on our NIM.
Got it. Got it.
Secondly, sir, like, you know, looking at your, you know, on the bifurcation that we have given, in EBLR, MCLR, T-Bill, and all. T-Bill composition, if I see, you know, it has gone up from 8.4% to 11%. If I look at the, like, you know, domestic, industrial loan growth, that is around 3.5, approximately 3.5%, sequential. Against that growth, if I see, or maybe against that composition change of the credit, if I see the composition change of the, you know, lending rate benchmark, especially on the T-Bill, which you might have used for corporate lending, has gone up sharply. And for MCLR, it has come down. Have we, you know, changed our benchmark for the corporate lending? Like, you know, there is pressure coming from corporate borrowers in terms of, you know, pricing. If you can clarify, sir.
There is no pressure from the corporate side. It is the conscious decision of the bank to, when we had the liquidity, and with the thin margin also, we are able to rotate our fund and make good of that particular fund. And that is the reason, if you see the T-Bill, the growth substantially it has gone up. So for the 31 days, 45 days, 90 days period also, through our short-term loans, WCDL, we are making good money out of that. So one is that we are getting the fund, shorter fund also, and we are able to deploy those funds in that particular segment, and we are able to make good money out of that. So this is the conscious decision bank has taken. It is not because of the strain in the system.
But it looks very contrary, sir.
Like, you know, the our reported margin, like margin is looking flat, but, you know, we have gone on the T-Bill pricing. So where else we have made, you know, surplus margin to make up for the loss, when we are doing corporate lending on the T-Bill?
No, no. It is not, like that because we are also doing some repricing of our, the corporate book which we had given below 7%. There was some shit which we had given 0.7%, 0.25% also. So some price adjustments we are doing there also.
And there, wherever there are opportunity to make the good of our surplus which we are having or the overnight borrowing which we are doing it, we are also using that fund on a regular basis for the WCDL and all for making the even if some small spread is there, we are able to make some good money out of that.
And sir, lastly on the AS15, we had INR 2,060 crore provision in the Q2. This quarter we have INR 1,400 crore. So, during the nine months for this fiscal year, have we changed our discount rate for either gratuity or pension? because last quarter we made quite high provision, so on the ad hoc basis. So if you can help us, that where are we on that?
See, generally AS15, the provision happens and we decide in the beginning of the financial year.
March, the actual calculation happens, and based on that calculation, we make the provision in the very first quarter and subsequently in subsequent quarters we also go by that. But when we saw that there is a dip in the yield which is happening and based on the, I think 7.78%, 7.05%-6.75%, so there was some 30% dip in the yield. So because of that, we recalculated our actual provision, and then we found that there is excess provision has to be done in the September quarter. And that is the reason we have gone for some higher provision in the September quarter. And that point of time, we calculated that the entire year, I think it was 5,600, was the total provision that was required for the entire year based on the calculation in the month of September.
Accordingly, we have worked the calculation and we have done the calculation for this quarter for to the extent of INR 1,400 crore. If the same situation remains as it is and we are expecting almost the yield will remain the same, then in the March quarter also, we will require to have the provision of only INR 1,400 crore. It means, sir, at the current yield of around 6.7%, 10-year G-Sec yield, and we had a discount rate of 7.2% on the March 2024. We would not be required to make any further change in the discount rate, like what you are assuming right now? Absolutely. Absolutely. What is that discount rate number, sir, now that we have? 6.78. 6.75 we have done. 6.75 we have done in this particular quarter.
For gratuity and pension both?
Yeah, yeah. Both.
Thank you, sir. Thank you so much, sir.
Thank you so much and all the best.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Aditi Nevel, an individual investor. Please go ahead.
Hello. Am I audible?
Yeah.
Hi, thanks for the opportunity and congratulations on your appointment and congratulations on the quarter as well. I just had one question, so it is regarding your recovery that you have been guiding to the target of around INR 18,000 crore. Now, until Q3, we have done around 11,500-odd crore of recovery. So now, if I run some calculations and also with the guidance that you have provided that in Q4, we'd be expecting TWO recoveries to the tune of INR 1,500-INR 1,600 crore, I still, I mean, I'm able to calculate some shortfall of around INR 200 to INR 2,000-INR 2,500 crore in the recovery amount.
So could you just help me with whether we will be able to meet the target of INR 18,000 crores or there will be some softening on that?
I think, yeah, we are aiming for 18,000 crore, but with a conservative estimate, I can tell you that in this particular quarter, we should be in a position to mop up the recovery to the extent of around INR 5,000-6,000 crores.
Thank you.
And then some recoveries which we are expecting in the last quarter to come. There were some bigger accounts where which didn't materialize. Generally in the corporate recovery, it happens like this. But all those recoveries, we are expecting that I think in this quarter and some bigger recoveries are going to come in this February month itself now.
So around INR 5,000-odd crores of recoveries in TWO as well as write-back of provisions. Both, it is going to happen, yeah.
Okay. That will be it from my end, sir. Thank you so much.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sarvesh Mutha from AGFR Financial Research. Please go ahead.
Hi, thank you for the opportunity. Sir, I had a question on the tax rate. We have a tax rate currently of around 34.5%. Now going into FY26, do we plan to migrate to the 25% tax rate anytime next year?
We are estimating and we are planning now to decide in the 25, 26 at any quarter. Depending upon our position, I think definitely we would like to move to the new rate.
Okay.
And sir, on margins, you had said that you will be maintaining the 2.9%-3% margin. Now, if we look at FY26, now there could be a couple of rate cuts during that year. Do you think that this 2.9%-3% could be held even for FY26 as well?
We will have to see what sort of announcement comes from RBI side and how the budget announcement comes, what are the provisions that come. Then we'll take a call that what is the business model which we are going to adopt. See, whenever the repricing happens, the repricing will happen on the deposit side also. So I think we'll take care of the margin part even if the rate fall happens.
I think we will declare and we will announce that what is our guidance for 25, 26, by end of this financial year.
Okay. Thank you. Thanks for the opportunity. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Krish Shah, an individual investor. Please go ahead.
Hi sir, I have two questions to ask. So first is, are we looking to do anything to improve our CASA growth? Because, as I observe, banks are in some sort of an interest rate war going on. And second would be on operating expense cost. Is it, are we going to follow this rate and how much are we investing in digital? That's it.
See, first is the CASA growth. See, our assumption is that in CASA, interest rate doesn't make much difference.
And the interest rate which we are offering already it will continue and there will not be any interest rate changes that is going to happen in the CASA front now. As far as the growth is concerned, we are mindful of that today if we want to initiate and grow in the CASA front, a lot of initiatives are required. One is that how much additional facilities which we are offering in the particular CASA product, whether we have the segment-based CASA products, all those things, we are going to review in our bank also. And we will have the best probable facilities which are being given by the different banks. Definitely we are going to adopt in our CASA products also. So we will be very very competitive as far as the CASA is concerned.
And being the major presence in the north and northeastern states, we have the locational advantage also as far as the CASA growth is there. So I think that piece we are not going to miss and we will be one of the market leaders in the CASA growth front now. And operating cost-wise, see, one cost is almost it remains fixed and flat. That is the employees-related cost. There may not be any changes, which we are expecting in this coming quarter also and going forward also. What we are going to put emphasis on that, how much improvement we can do it in the non-interest income part. There are a lot of avenues out there and which we are discussing at bank level. One is that cash management services we would like to explore that how much income we can generate through that activity.
Supply chain, vendor management, that is wonderful opportunities that is there in the system. And the bank is, bank has just initiated that process for the supply chain and vendor financing. So I'm seeing that wonderful opportunity for these two segment, which will increase our non-interest income and thereby the operating, income and the operating profit. I think that we will be able to sustain and we will be able to grow.
Thank you so much, sir. All the best.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Parth Patel, an individual investor. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Sir, my first question is around the provisions you hold for the SMA, the sub-standard, and the restructured book put together. So the non-NPA part, how much provisioning are you holding in total for that?
The second question is, sir, around this year we are seeing INR 18,000 crores in terms of NPA recovery. But if we just look at the TWO recovery, you said you have INR 91,000 crores of TWO book. So next year, do you think that the TWO recovery will be more than FY25, less than FY25? Do you have any number in mind?
See, one is first your provision part. See, in the standard account provisioning, there are only two ways which we do. One is the normal RBI mandate is there for making the provision. I think 0.40%, which we are supposed to do that. We do that. And wherever the restructuring that has happened in the standard account, see, one is the OTR1 book, OTR2 book, and the normal 7th June Circular, any restructuring has happened.
In those accounts only, we are supposed to maintain the provisioning norms and provisions, so other than that, we are not supposed to maintain any, other than the guidelines, we are not supposed to maintain any provision for the standard book, but we have around INR 750 crore of floating provision which we are holding it, and whenever it is required to be used for any purpose, we are going to use that provision, so we are well capitalized and well provisioned healthy bank now, so there is no challenge as far as that part is concerned. Your second question was the TWO recovery. See, the book is so high that I am expecting that not only this quarter, going forward also, bank is going to have a good recovery under the TWO because 91,000 is a big book and we have INR 54,000 crore of NCLT book.
All these NCLT book which we are holding it, it is under the TWO now. So this 54,000 out of 91,000, definitely it is going to be realized in the next year or the subsequent years also. So that is the opportunity which is there in the system for the bank to get back that recovery. So I'm very hopeful that TWO recovery will continue to bring the good income for the bank.
Got it, sir. Thank you so much.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Parag Thakkar from Forth Capital. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi sir. Thank you. Congratulations for the new assignment and congratulations for good number, good set of numbers. Sir, everybody is expecting that rate cuts are going to happen and so there will be some margin compression.
But don't you feel that because we have a CD ratio of 72% only, and if the system liquidity improves due to RBI steps, like as you mentioned, VRR and OMOs, the growth will also be better?
Yes, I fully agree with you, sir. We have enough cushion for growth now, having 72% of the CD ratio and 15.56% of the CRAR. And the profit which we are holding it, we have enough cushion to grow in the system. And if further rate cut happens, I think opportunities will be immense for the corporate also to come forward and avail the facilities.
So, sir, do you feel that growth will offset the whatever a little bit margin contraction which happens due to interest rate cuts? Because as you very rightly say, deposit would also get repriced, but there will be some lag effect, right?
Yeah.
So we will have to see what is the rate cut that is being offered and that happens in this particular quarter, when the MPC happens. I think in a shorter span of time, one quarter, two quarter, definitely there will be some impact. If I say that no impact will be there, I will not be doing justice to that. So there will be some impact, but whatever happens, the impact for this quarter will be very, very minimal. I think with the growth in the credit pipeline which we are holding it, I think that should offset the effect of the rate cut which is going to happen. So in this particular quarter, I'm not seeing any major impact of the rate cut even if it happens.
Sir, when you say 13%-15% loan book growth, you have said for FY25 or for next year, 26? No, no. See, our guidance for this year is 10% to 11% to 12% of the loan book now. I'm expecting that our growth will be in the range of 12%-13% in the financial year 25. Correct. And 26, you are saying?
26, I have not told anything. We need to wait for the. See, there is a process for fixing the number for the next financial year. Somewhere in the first week of March, we will have the board strategy meet and then we will decide the growth path, what is the profitability which we are going to fix up, what will be the NPA number.
The guidance we will give at the end of the financial year to the analyst and everybody that on the 13 basic parameters where we want to place our bank in 2025, 2026.
Sir, when you say that out of your technical write-off of 91,000 crore, 54,000 crore book is in NCLT. So, how much portion of that you expect to recover? For example, if it is in NCLT and the asset is monetized, what is your general assumption that out of this 91,000 crore, what can or say 54,000 crore which is in NCLT, based on your assessment, what is the total recovery amount which will, of course, which will come over a period of time, not necessarily next year itself, but what is your general assessment on that?
See, in this particular quarter, the recovery through the NCLT is only INR 370 crore in Q3 and INR 380 crore. And I'm expecting the accounts and the resolutions which are maturing now. I'm expecting around INR 570 crore recovery through the NCLT route in this particular quarter. And through NARCL route also, we are expecting around INR 500 crore of recovery in this particular quarter. So if I can put it, because this INR 54,000 crore is NCLT also and there are some accounts which are in NCLT but getting resolved through the NARCL. So both put together, I'm expecting that a recovery of around INR 1,000 crore from the NCLT and NARCL. And this entire book will be the TWO book.
Okay. And there is another number which you said INR 1,400-INR 1,500 crore of recovery, right, in Q4?
That is the TWO recovery I was talking about.
That is the TWO recovery. So 1,000 crore through NARCL and the NCLT, that is a part of the 1,400 or 1,500 which we are aiming to do it in the Q4 quarter. Okay. So total recovery number is 1,500 crore? Total 1,500 under the TWO. And total recovery in this particular quarter, we are expecting around 5,000 to 6,000 crore.
Okay. Thanks a lot. Thanks a lot, sir. All the best. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Rakesh Kumar from B&K Securities. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi. Thank you. Thank you for the opportunity again. Sir, just one question, sir. On the provision line, we have a write-back and the, you know, investment depreciation. So what is this number of 190 crore pertaining to write-back? Recovery in? Hello?
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, that is the recovery in the one accounts is there. See, there has been a write-back of provision that has happened in a few of the accounts. And that is the reason there is a provisioning, the credit cost and all. If you see, that is the impact of that. Only the write-back of provision has gone up now.
Yeah. So how many accounts that we have for kind of this is must, this must be non-performing asset, where the recovery has happened. So, like, you know, how many accounts are there and from which sector, if you can help us understand?
There are, yeah, yeah, there are two ways of write-back of provision happens. One is, when we recover the amount under the NPA account under the GNPA, it comes back as a write-back of provision. Okay?
In the TWO, whatever recovery happens, it directly goes to the operating profit. So this is one way of write-back of provision. Second write-back of provision which has happened in this particular quarter, generally that happens is in the 7th June Circular, we are supposed to maintain the, in the restructured book, we are supposed to maintain the provision. Now, if that account becomes the standard account once again, it gets revived, then that provision we have to roll it back. And that is the one provision which has been rolled back and that has come as a write-back of provision. So a standard account also, because of the, the restructuring, whatever provision we do that, and once after the timeline provided in the restructured account, if that timeline meets and the account behaves properly, that provision we need to reverse back.
So there are two ways of write back of provisions.
Yeah, correct. So, like, you know, referring to those stressed accounts where, you know, you were talking about the resolution of stressed asset, whether we have written back around INR 320 crore. So that is one, you know, write back of provision of INR 425 crore. This must be included there. And over and above, we have another investment depreciation or NPA write back. So, like, so how many accounts?
Yeah. NPA write back is that INR 190 crore on account of the NPA write back. That is because of that it has happened. And, OTR on account of OTR write back, it is INR 81 crore. Second, the third point is the 7th June Circular, there were some accounts where INR 447 crore write back has happened.
So these three things put together, the write-back of provisions has happened in the system. Okay. And what is the continuity possibly, if we can, if you, if you have anything because discussions might, must be going on, on such larger accounts. So any visibility we have for fourth quarter, such kind of recoveries or write-backs? Definitely. The write-back of provisions, definitely, it is going to happen in the system. And we are also expecting that, both in the NPA side and the non-NPA side, the standard account side, I think INR 300-400 crore write-back of provisions will happen in this quarter also.
Understood, sir. Understood. Okay. Great, sir. Great. Thank you, sir. Thank you as always. All the best, sir.
Thank you.
Thank you. Is there no further questions from the participants? I now hand the conference over to the management for closing comments.
Over to you, sir.
So, thank you very much to all the esteemed, the investors and the analysts, for reposing faith and confidence in Punjab National Bank. On behalf of the top management and the entire PNB family, we assure you that we will continue to have the robust growth. We will continue to have the robust, operating profit, net profit, and the, all the financial parameters. You will see that there has been, there will be continuous improvement. So thank you very much.
Thank you. On behalf of Elara Securities Private Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.