Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to Varroc Engineering Limited Q3 FY23 results conference call hosted by Ambit Capital. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal the operator by pressing star then 0 on your touch-tone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Karan Kokane from Ambit Capital. Thank you. Over to you, sir.
Yeah. Thank you, operator. Good evening, everyone. I welcome you all to the Varroc Engineering 3Q FY 2023 results conference call. From the management team, we have with us Mr. Tarun Jain, Chairman and Managing Director, Mr. Arjun Jain, Whole-time Director, Mr. Mahendra Kumar, CFO, and Mr. Vikas Dugar, Head, Investor Relations. I'll now hand over the call to Mr. Vikas. Thanks, and over to you, sir.
Thank you, Karan, for hosting the call. Just a small disclaimer before we start the call that today's call might include a statement which might constitute forward-looking statement. All statement that addresses expectation or projection about the future, including but not limited to statement about strategy for growth, business development, market position, expenditure and financial results are forward-looking statement. Forward-looking statement are based on certain assumption and expectation of future events and involve known and unknown risks, uncertainties and other factors. The company cannot guarantee these assumptions and expectations are accurate or exhaustive or will be realized. The actual results or performance or achievement could thus differ materially from those projected in such forward-looking statement. No obligation is assumed by the company to update the forward-looking statement contained herein. Thank you.
I will now hand over the call to our CMD, Tarang Jain, for his opening remarks.
Thank you, Vikas, and thank you, team Ambit, for hosting the call. Also a very good evening to everyone. Before talking about the operational performance of Q3 FY 2023, I would like to again inform you that we have completed the divestment of our Four-wheeler lighting business in Europe and America on the 6th of October 2022. The transaction behind us, the team in Varroc is now totally focused on the continued operations to reduce costs and invest in identified focus areas to drive future profitable growth. Speaking about the operational performance, in India the automobile production for all the segments in Q3 FY 2023 fell on a Q-on-Q basis because of the early festive season and reduction of inventory at the channel partners.
On a year-on-year basis, we saw good growth in most of the segments due to easing of the semiconductor issues and improving economic activity. Two-wheelers saw tepid growth as the lower end of the segment is still not picking up. Two-wheelers production grew only by a mere 0.5%, three-wheelers by 13.13%, passenger vehicles by 21.4% and commercial vehicles by 12% on a year-on-year basis. In terms of our operations, our revenue from operations grew by 15.3% to INR 17,228 million on a year-on-year basis. Our EBITDA margin came in at 7.8% and it improved on a year-on-year basis by 140 basis points due to improvement in the overseas performance.
Sequentially, the EBITDA margin has fallen due to lower revenue in India operations, whereas overseas operation EBITDA margin has improved. The reported PAT for the quarter was INR 218 million. We continue to have strong order wins for new businesses in the nine months FY 2023 across business units enabling our future growth in India. During the nine months FY 2023, lifetime revenue from new order wins is INR 35,653 million. Out of this, business wins from five prominent EV customers is INR 8,917 million. The order books also reflect our effort to diversify as we see nearly 48% lifetime order wins from the four-wheeler segment and 52% from the two and three-wheeler segment.
Diversification can also be seen in the order book from a customer perspective as the top customer new order book is only 19%. As stated previously also, profitable business wins, improving of the contribution margin, focusing on profit before tax instead of EBITDA margins, sweating of the assets, inventory reduction, commercialization of our R&D efforts, control on overall costs, growing free cash flows and debt reduction and prudent capital allocation remain the focus of the company. I'm now handing over the call to NK, our Group CFO, who will walk you through the presentation which has already been uploaded in our website and also in the stock exchange. Over to you, NK.
Thank you, Tarang. Good evening, everyone. Let me take you through the highlights first. If you go to slide number 3 in the presentation. As our chairman once again pointed out, we completed the sale transaction on October 6th, that's behind us now. In terms of the revenue growth, we grew by about 15%, though the industry went down sequentially and of course certain segments grew year-over-year. The revenue came in at about INR 1,723 crores.
In terms of lifetime business one also, I think we could get about INR 35 billion of lifetime revenue through the orders which we booked in the last 9 months. Of that, nearly INR 9 billion is relating to the EV customers. EBITDA margin was about 7.8%, which is still 1.4% above what it was last year same time. Though sequentially it went down, that's largely driven by the impact of the operating leverage caused by the lower revenue levels compared to previous quarter. Coming to the rating agencies, rating outlook, they actually rated it as stable outlook. Earlier it was kept under watch because of the completion of the transaction.
As some of you might have noticed already, India Ratings has given A one rating to us on the commercial papers. This is of course ICRA was A two or A two plus. India Ratings gave A one for commercial papers. On the whole, as we explained earlier, I think now we are in a far better position to service our debt levels, and also we are focusing heavily on improving profitability and cash flow. Going to the next slide, this is about the overall industry trend. As I explained earlier, the two-wheeler grew marginally by about half a %, more or less flat. Three-wheeler and of course other segments had double-digit growth compared to last year.
On quarter-over-quarter, of course, every segment had only a degrowth, which is the reason why we also had some impact on the revenue. Going to the next slide 5, where we talked about the overall consolidated financials. On a revenue of INR 1,723 crores, we reported EBITDA margin of 7.8%, a PBT of INR 114 million or INR 11.4 crores, and a PAT of INR 21.8 crores. The reason why PAT was more than PBT was, we also had a couple of changes in the tax assumptions. We actually reflected the deferred tax asset in VPPL polymers business, which is basically a reflection of the lower tax rate. From 35% we moved to a 25% tax regime there.
Similarly, we also recognized the benefit of deduction on Forex losses which we booked last year. Because of that, the benefit actually resulted in a good PBT of INR 21.8 crores. In the next slide, we gave the overall business split. Of course, two and three-wheelers constitute 70% of the total business. Bajaj as a percentage of total business is now at 38%. Geographically, if you see the total earnings coming in foreign currency constitute about 19% of the total. The remaining 81% is domestic. If you see the business split also, PBU accounts for 32%, almost 1/3 of the total. EBU and lighting account for 22% each. Metallics accounts for 12%. Aftermarket 9, the overseas IMF operation is about 4%.
Going to the next slide, on slide number 7, we gave the split of the total order book which we got in the last nine months. The lifetime revenue is about INR 3,565 crores. Nearly 1/4 of this is relating to the electric vehicles. In terms of the two-wheeler, three-wheeler split also if you really see nearly half of it is from two-wheeler and three-wheeler, and the remaining half comes from passenger vehicles and commercial vehicles. Similarly, if you see the overall split also in terms of customer concentration on these orders, Bajaj accounts for only 19% of the total. The other slides of course are backup slides only, which you would have seen earlier also. Let me stop at this level now. If you have any questions, we can take now. Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin with the question and answer session. Anyone wishing to ask a question, please press star and one on your touch-tone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Aditya Jhawar from Investec. Please go ahead.
Hi, thanks for the opportunity. My first question is on, you know, EBITDA margin. If you can help us, you know, give a breakup of what is the EBITDA margin of India business and overseas business, which was not provided in this, you know, quarterly presentation, it would be good.
Yeah. See, the reason why we didn't do this is, previously of course we had this confusion between continuing and discontinuing. Now it is largely India business only. The EBITDA margin on overseas business certainly improved compared to what it was in Q2, but it is still very small number compared to the overall scheme of things. That's the reason we did not give the split. Compared to Q2, there was improvement.
I mean, you know, I think this is the third time we have slightly changed the disclosure of, yeah, India and overseas, both in terms of revenue and margins. Earlier, we used to have, discontinued plus, you know, IMES separately disclosed. From modeling perspective, incrementally, what should we expect, do we, you know, plan to report numbers separately, revenue as well as on EBITDA?
No, no, we don't intend to report separately for overseas hereafter. It'll be reported at the total level only. If you see our segmentation also, we do it only like automotive and others. We don't do the geographical split in our segmentation. Again, once it becomes significant level, we'll start reporting, but as of now, it's not at all significant.
What would be a share of, you know, so you mentioned that Bajaj share and overall order book is about say 19%? What would be Bajaj share in EV order book?
I don't think we'll give that customer-wide specification on the new orders.
See, you have given it for new orders for total for, you know, specific customer. For similarly for EV.
Yeah, that's somewhat confidential. We don't want to give that kind of breakup within a sub-segment. We will give it at the total level.
Okay. you know, what is the, you know, roadmap of, debt reduction that we have planned, in FY 20, you know, FY 24 and 25?
Yeah. See, as of now, we are focusing on improving profitability and improving free cash flow generation also. Any concrete debt reduction, I think will most probably happen only in next year. I would rather say maybe after H1 only. In between, of course, we'll continue to improve operation, but a significant reduction if you want to see, I think it will start happening only from H2 onwards.
Sorry, from H2 of FY24?
Correct.
Okay. Okay. final question is, you know, about a CapEx plan for this year and next year, if you can give some sense.
Yeah. This year we may end up with around INR 150 crores of total CapEx. Next year maybe slightly higher, maybe at somewhere between INR 200-250 crores is what we may end up at.
Perfect. That's it from my side. All the best.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is on the line of Anant Trivedi from Nipun Capital. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi. Congrats on a good set of numbers. Just following up on the earlier question, what do you expect to end up this year with on the debt side?
Net debt.
Net debt number.
The net debt will more or less be around the current levels. I think we have been maintaining it at INR 1,300 crores since the, our diverse spend. It will more or less be around those levels. It may slightly go up or down by about INR 30 crores-INR 50 crores, depending upon various other factors, but there won't be a significant change from the current levels.
Okay. I just want to understand the concept of lifetime new orders. What does lifetime mean?
Yeah. Generally, we assume that there's a five-year life cycle of the product, whatever we get. We basically compute what could be the probable revenue over the next five years we get once we start making the product.
Okay. The numbers that you have in the presentation, they are value over the next five years?
No. Sorry, from the time they start. We have given the commencement of production also in the table.
Right. From, for example, we have 14,263 from FY 2023 onwards. That is what you expect starting from FY 2023 over the next 5 years?
That is right.
Okay. You know, one last question from my side for Karan. Obviously the two-wheeler segment has been challenging. You know, are you seeing any green shoots? What do you think will cause a turnaround? Just what's the macro view on this?
You're talking about the two-wheeler segment?
Yes.
Yeah. The two-wheeler segment actually is definitely subdued as we know, you know, and post this festive season. I really don't see, you know, Though I, we see some improvement, you know, in January on the volume side. Frankly speaking, you know, we'll wait and watch, I think, till the first quarter of FY 2024. At the moment, I don't really see, you know, increasing volumes presently, you know, except maybe on the premium side of the two-wheelers, where we see a level of growth. But the larger portion, you know, which is up to this 125cc, I mean, there we don't really see much of a traction at the moment, you know.
We'll wait and watch, you know, how, you know, maybe we get into a monsoon season and then there's a improvement. I don't really the moment, you know, feel confident that, you know, things are gonna really drastically go up. It will go up from the level of November and December, what we saw, you know, the last quarter, but then that's not significantly up, you know? Maybe we'll wait probably till the monsoons to really see a kind of a change, you know, happening. That's what I feel at the moment. You know, I don't really next 3, 4 months, I don't really feel things are gonna really change much.
What do you attribute the slowdown to? Because there's been a pickup in, you know, like you said, the premium side, there's been a pickup in EV side. Is there something that's holding this recovery back?
I think it's more the entry level, right? I think people are, you know, really saving the money, you know. They don't want to. I mean, see the, I mean, the lower middle class or, you know, other sections, they don't want to really they wanna postpone the investment in two-wheelers, you know, because maybe real incomes have not really gone up, you know. Today, they have to save for health and other important reasons, you know. Today, that's why they're postponing that buy, as such. You know, so that's where it is, and therefore you see that everybody who's in the entry level is impacted. The other issue is obviously, as you know, the exports are really down, you know.
Mm.
You know, for everyone. You know, because of, you know, Forex issues and all abroad. I mean, because of the issues, the war in Europe and for many other reasons and the oil prices going up. I mean, people are constrained, you know. In African countries, South America and other places, even in South Asia. You know, I mean, there are challenges, you know. Therefore, those volumes that we have seen really de-grow in this financial year. That's the other impact which is happening also on the two-wheeler, which is also, in a way, the lower end, you know, of the segment. Largely. You know, especially for us. The export side and even the domestic side, both are challenged, I would say.
Yes, the challenge is today we have faced some more of the reduction in the export volumes of our customers. Even on the domestic side, there is pain. There is pain, you know, for the reasons I mentioned.
Right. Okay, thank you so much.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Rishi Vora from Kotak Securities. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Thank you, sir, for taking my question. Just on quarterly performance, if I look at your, you know, gross margins, you know, it has declined on a sequential basis. Is it more to do with, you know, let's say product mix, slash, geographical or business mix? I would have expected some, you know, RM benefit to come through in this quarter. What has happened on the gross margin side for this quarter?
It's primarily driven by the fact that we still have material and Forex pass-throughs that need to go through. Forex in particular, I think has seen a steep increase, but I think we should recover this over the course of the next few quarters.
Okay. Like next quarter also, you don't expect a material benefit because of RM market decline?
It will be spread over a period. Of course, every customer, you know, takes differing amounts of time.
Right.
We're confident we will recover, but it's hard to comment exactly when.
Right. This INR 9 billion of, you know, lifetime revenue from EV players, can you just give us some indication on, in this, what is the breakup for, you know, your order wins for EV components specific and not your, you know, ICE business per se?
EV powertrain versus engine exhaust system. As our CFO has already said, we are not commenting on sub-segment splits.
Okay. Understood.
Yeah.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Chirag Shah from Nuvama. Please go ahead.
Hello. Yeah. Thanks for the opportunity. I have, two, three questions. First question is the order book data that you have shared-
Sir, your audio is not clear. Your audio is sounding very muffled.
Hello. Is it better now?
Yes, sir. Much better. Thank you.
Yeah. First question is the order book that you have shared, where you have indicated 48% from EVs. This is significantly higher than your current revenue mix. When do the transitions start happening? Or is this a one-off event where there is such a high order book, in favor of EVs, or this is a new trend that one should look at?
See, today, you know. See, we are very much focused on also the four-wheeler segment. Yes, you are right that two- and three-wheeler segment for us historically and even in the future will remain, of course, you know, core to us. At the same time, there are these, you know, product segments like lighting, you know, the lighting space and the plastics space, where actually we are a full service supplier. That's, and here's where, you know, we are actually driving a lot of growth, and we are also getting a lot of traction with all the, with lot of the customers in India. This is where we see a lot of order wins, you know, coming in in the past nine months.
This is gonna continue, you know, going forward, that you will see, you know, our order book on the four-wheeler side, especially for in these two product groups, you know, really significantly improving.
This order book is largely domestic, right? This doesn't include any export, international business or anything like that?
This is what we are stating here is largely domestic. Yes, we also have exports also, you know, including mainly for metallic products and electronics, which we are now exploring. Presently, you know, this order book on four-wheeler is largely more to do with these two product segments of lighting and plastics, plastic molding.
The general perception is that the profitability in four-wheeler is expected to be lower than two-wheeler, given your legacy with two-wheelers.
No, no.
That-
It's the other way around. Two-wheeler is a very competitive business. I would say relatively, four-wheeler business for us is better.
Okay. This is helpful. The second is on the EV side again now. While I'm not interested in knowing the broad breakup, but on one of the slides you have indicated the different components of EV, you know, where you have won the business. Is it fair to assume that the 900 crore order that you indicated represents all the components, or if some of the components are in early stage of development and it is not a part with 900 crore order, it doesn't form part of the 900 crore order?
Today you can say that we are present, you know, and so these order wins. I mean, we are today present in all these segments, what we have mentioned. Depending on which EV customer, whether it's startups or OEMs, the current OEMs, we are driving, you know, sales for particularly EV powertrain parts as well as the, you know, other parts, you know, which are the other electronics or plastics or seating, everything, you know. Today, I'm saying already we are supplying, you know, products, you know, like this for customers and whatever we have won for the future is across all these product lines.
Okay. It's across like right from traction motors to battery management and even on both chargers and all those stuff.
Nearly 80%, 90% of all this, what we have mapped, we have got the order books. Only few products are still under testing and validation at the customer end, like BMS and chargers. Other than that, whether that is traction motor, controller, DC-DC converter, telematics, you name other things, or all the polymer and other our typical products, all those are we are getting orders from the customers.
The second question is, if you would wish to address that, how many EV customers today you have on board, including this order, in terms of number of EV customers, if you can highlight?
We have said that.
We already have 5. We have won from 5 EV customers, and we are also discussing with another 4-5.
Another 4 to 5. Okay. Great. This is helpful. Thank you. All the best.
Yeah.
Thank you. The next question is on the line of Vishal from Swan Investments. Please go ahead.
Thank you for taking my question, sir. Sir, just one question regarding our demerger. It was said that there was some EUR 28 million which were in the escrow account. Just wanted to have the status on that.
Yeah, I think that will take some more time, because there is some kind of cooling off period after the closure of the transaction. Most probably, in Q4, we will have some indication of that amount.
Okay. Okay.
Actual cash flow may happen later, but at least the discussions will happen in Q4.
Okay. Whether do you see same thing happening in FY 2024 or it will be in 2025?
It's difficult to predict now unless we see the details from the other side. Maybe in the next call we'll be able to provide some details.
Okay. Okay. Okay. Sir, the second question is regarding the divestment plans of your, you know, IMF business or the Chinese operations. You know, can you throw some light where are we in those plans or we have shelved off?
See, IMES for us. Presently, see, we've been focusing of a better operational performance in IMES, I mean, we've been doing quite well in the past months. Our performance has been quite strong in IMES. Having said that, okay, from a future angle, it's not really a core business for us. we have to see how things, you know, kind of progress. if you talk about from a long-term angle, yes, it's not really a core business for us, IMES. we'll see, you know, as things go along. At the moment, it's not really the right time to do anything because of the war in Europe, you know, things are not looking so good.
We are doing quite well because it's more of a non-auto business, you know, and that's doing fairly well. Coming to the China side. See, China side, you know, today we have a joint venture partner. You know, this process is taking long. We are splitting from our joint venture partner in China. This process will take another probably 1 to 2 quarters to materialize. I know we were expecting things to happen sooner. Yes, these things do take its time, you know. From a long-term future angle, China will be for four-wheeler lighting, it will be a part of our overall business. Today, we don't consolidate it. Post-split with our partner, it will be 100%, you know, a subsidiary happening.
We are looking at, of course, China as a good growth market going forward on the Four-wheeler lighting side.
Okay. Okay, sir. What will be, you know, whether the China business, you know, will it be a ROC accretive or a ROC dilutive business going ahead, if you foresee the plan for FY 2024 and 2025?
China is that way a very. You see, it's the most important market in the world. We have a very good business, you know, model in China. I would say that it would be overall accretive only to our overall business. It will be a positive once we consolidate it, that to our rest of the business.
Okay. Okay. Okay.
Thank you. We'll move on to the next question. That is on the line of Basudeb Banerjee from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead.
Thanks, sir. Three questions. One, if I look at your P&L, in the initial comments you said, net debt is still somewhere around INR 1,300, INR 1,350 crore. Am I right, sir?
Yeah, that's right. That's right.
Last two quarters, if I look at average interest outgo is roughly INR 50 crore, annualized INR 200 crore. On a INR 1,300 crore debt, INR 200 crore interest outgo implies a rate of almost 16 odd %. Where is the misconnection here for if you can recall? Post debt reduction after selling off VLS, interest was expected to go down. When should we expect that, and what should be a stable level of interest outgo?
Yeah. Thank you, Basudeb. That's a good question. See, in addition to the debt, we also do the discounting.
Mm-hmm.
receivables wherever needed. The discount charges are also grouped there. Plus on top of that, the India is one month's accounting requires the lesser interest to be split between depreciation and interest. The interest component also goes on six days. It's a combination of everything. Yeah. Bottom line, yes, the interest rates also of course have gone up as in the last six months. That is also contributing to it. It's a combination of all these factors. On your second question, when it is going to go down. Of course, initially, as we all know, we expected that the net debt will be zero after the transaction, but it didn't happen that way. Now, of course, we are working on operational improvements as we explained earlier in this call.
All those efforts to materialize and convert into cash will take some time. That's why earlier around, to one of the questions I mentioned that, if you want to see some significant net debt reduction, we should wait until H2 of next year.
Yeah. Next question is, sir, if I look at your revenue trajectory, it's more or less somewhere around that INR 1,650 odd crores centered in last 4 quarters.
Can you speak louder?
If I look at your revenue figure, it's more or less centered around INR 1,650 crore-INR 1,700 crore for last four quarters. Whereas, in Q3, you see that staff cost has moved up almost to INR 183 crore, which is highest in last four quarters. Any one-off in this line item? Because QOQ revenue declined and QOQ staff cost is up some 5%-6%. Any one-offs in that, sir?
Sorry. There is no one-off in terms of our revenue recognition in this quarter. These are all operational revenue only.
No, no, Vikas. I was asking where revenue is slightly down or seasonally down, right way to put QOQ.
Yeah. seasonally down. Yeah.
Staff cost is up and highest in last 4 quarters. Is this the quarter of annual pay hikes or bonuses or any one-off is there, from a staff cost line item perspective?
Sorry. I think your question was about employee cost.
Yes, sir.
Okay. Yeah. Employee cost was higher during this quarter for a couple of reasons. One, we also added some R&D resources in the overseas markets. We strengthened the R&D resource skills there. If you had attended the auto show, I think you would have seen the products which we showcased there. To support all those products, we have added some R&D resources. In Q2, there was also some kind of transfer of cost to the buyer as part of the transaction, so there were some credits also. It's a combination of both. Primarily it is because of the resources which we added.
Okay. And last question, sir, as I don't want to go into the deeper disclosures.
Sir Banerjee, Sir, your audio is breaking up.
Hello. Yeah. Is fine now?
No, sir. It's still the same. May we request that you use the handset mode while speaking and not the speaker phone?
Now it's audible?
Yes, sir. Please proceed.
Yeah. Last question. I just don't want to dig deeper, as per disclosures are concerned, but just wanted to understand, like as per past disclosures, our India margin is to hover around that 9.5% odd. Where it is now this quarter?
Yeah. See, whatever EBITDA margin we represented there is largely driven by India only.
Mm-hmm.
the direction.
Okay. Okay. Understood. Thanks.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Priya Ranjan from HDFC AMC. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Thank you. Just one thing. I mean, what should we look at your future direction of margin? Should we just consider it like, say, high single digit margin company now? Or I mean, can we consider it, say, lower double digit also? Because I mean, after, say, split also, we have not seen meaningful improvement in operating leverage or operational efficiency, although we have been keep talking about operational efficiency, et cetera, but we have not seen any kind of improvement in that. Can you just throw some light on the-
Yeah.
margin trajectory?
Yeah. I think there are two parts to it. One is, of course, driven by the volumes. Definitely Q3 being a very low quarter for the industry as a whole, this is not the right quarter to actually to look at. Because of the operating leverage working against us, there was a dip in margins. Having said that, yeah, we are also working on operational efficiencies, but as you know, these things don't happen overnight. We'll have to put the structure in place. We need to keep working on the various actions. Over a period of time only we will see the benefits. Most probably in the later part of next year, I think we should see some kind of improvement, but we are working on that.
Okay. In terms of the cash flow, how should we look at the improvement in free cash flow generation? That is also crucial for your future deleveraging, because whatever deal, et cetera, has happened, has already happened. I mean, the smaller pieces are actually left. We can't get significant amount of deleveraging from those assets.
Yeah. See, the free cash flow improvement, as you know, depends upon various factors. First of all, I think we need to get the revenues up and we need to improve the profitability. That remains the focus area. We are also taking various actions to limit our working capital. In fact, we are trying to reduce them from the current levels, things like inventory reductions, collection of overdue receivables. These are the areas which are getting lot of focus. Plus we are also now very prudent on CapEx. As I mentioned earlier in the call, we are limiting the CapEx of this year to about INR 150 crores. Next year also it could be maybe around INR 200-INR 250 crores.
With all these actions and of course the improved operating leverage giving us the benefit, from increased volumes next year, I think we should expect some kind of decent free cash flow generation next year. Again, we have to wait for a couple of quarters to see a concrete reduction, concrete improvement in the free cash flow.
Understood. In terms of the last one on the new lifetime order wins, you have indicated around INR 35 billion worth of new order. When can we expect, I mean, whatever order you have already won, when can we expect that those numbers will be coming into your number, I mean the top line?
I think that's explained in the slide. We gave a table when that revenue will come in, and we gave the number also. You can refer to that slide.
Okay.
We explained how much will come next year and the following year.
These are mostly incremental? How much is replacement and how much is incremental?
These are all new, so nothing replacement. That's why you see that our revenue growth has been better than the industry. That is the trend which you can see in terms of our revenue growth. This gives us the confidence that our revenue growth will be better than the industry. Again, it's not a guidance, but this is our expectation.
Okay. Okay, thank you. Best of luck.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Abhishek Jain from Dolat Capital. Please go ahead.
Thanks for opportunity. Sir, you have started supplying motor and controllers to Bajaj Auto, and the content per vehicle is around INR 15,000-INR 17,000. Have you started to supply these products to other players?
Can you please repeat your question?
The audio is not clear. I'm sorry.
Hello? Sir, as you started supplying motor and controller to Bajaj Auto, and the content per vehicle is around, 15,000-17,000 INR. Have you started to supply these products to other players?
No, we've not entered mass production for any other player so far.
You have a right to start production with the other players, of these products, motor and controller?
Yes, of course.
Okay. Bajaj is the only players, to whom you are supplying, motor and controller, right?
I mean, we don't want to give that kind of customer-wise breakup, but yeah, predominantly, yes.
Okay, sir. Sir, what is the current revenue from the EVs on a quarterly basis?
Yeah. As of now it is just about 2%. Not a very significant number, but it's expected to reach higher levels in the coming years.
What is your target for the FY 2024 in overall revenue terms in from EVs and what would be the break-even points in EVs?
Yeah. See, it's difficult to put a number to it because we continue to win these orders, so all these things add up to the revenue potential for the future. Maybe a couple of years down the line, we should see around INR 1,000 crore revenue coming from EV products.
Well, I think definitely it's a growing, you know, as you know that there is, it's a growing segment, you know, the EV segment for two-wheelers, and also now the three-wheelers also, where we are present, that also will start next year. Definitely whatever we're doing with, we do expect the revenues from EVs to actually double for us, you know? It's going to be a growing market for us. Like by FY25, we've already said the two and three-wheeler segment, we will get almost INR 1,000 crores in revenue just from the EV side.
In terms of the gross profit and EBITDA, what is your target on the INR 1,000 crores kind of the revenue?
No, we don't want to give any guidance on the sub-segment level. Yeah.
But, but-
I, we can only say that it's a fair margin, you know, it's a fair margin. We are happy with those margins which we can derive out of the EV products.
Most probably that, margin would be lower than the existing business?
No, no. The margin won't be lower than the existing business.
Okay. Sir, in electronics and component business, how is the current revenue mix in two-wheelers and four-wheelers, and how do you see the changes going ahead?
Are we talking about electronics in general overall?
Okay.
Yeah. You are asking about the outlook for electronics business, so.
Sir, actually I want to know what is the mix in terms of the two-wheelers and four-wheelers, and how the mix will change in the coming days?
We explained this trend at the total level, but not at the sub-segment level.
Okay. How is the trend now on a total level, sir?
The total level, as explained in the slide, about 70% comes from two- and three-wheelers.
Okay.
Remaining 30% comes from others.
What is your target, by FY 25 or 26 to change the overall revenue mix?
I think there is no target as such. As you can see, the order books reflect that we are getting more orders from four-wheeler. Gradually our dependency on two-wheeler will reduce. As a company, there is no target. Our motto remains to improve the performance and the profitability of the company.
Okay, sir. Sir, what is the current-
Sorry to interrupt, Mr. Jain. Sir, may we request that you return to the question queue? There are participants waiting for their turn.
Okay. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Jyoti Singh from Arihant Capital Markets Limited. Please go ahead.
You know what? We'll begin in just now. Yeah. Thank you for the opportunity.
Sorry to interrupt, Jyoti Singh. There's a lot of background disturbance from your line. We would request you to move to a silent place.
Now it's better?
Yes. Please proceed.
Yeah. My question is on the inventory loss side. Sir, how much inventory we lost during the quarter, if you can comment on that?
Our inventory, we.
Inventory loss.
Inventory loss.
Sorry.
Sorry. What do you mean by that? I couldn't understand. You know, inventory loss.
Sorry, you did mention, starting, when call started.
No, we said that we are working on to improve our net working capital, inventory reduction. Re-reduction in our inventory levels. Inventories.
Okay.
Along with the free cash to improve our cash flows.
Okay.
you know. That's what we mentioned. Yeah.
Okay. like, how much inventory reduction we did during the quarter?
We don't wanna put a number to it, but yeah, we are looking for a significant reduction, so but it takes time, so we need to see how it develops.
Okay. Sir, what's your view for the Q4 FY 23?
Sorry, what is it? You're asking about the forecast?
Yeah.
No, we don't give those kind of guidances. Yeah, it depends upon how the industry performs. Generally, Q4 should be better than Q3. That's the way it has been. Obviously the benefits of operating leverage should help us, but we don't want to give any guidance.
Sir, as we are targeting to reduce our two-wheeler revenue mix going forward and two-wheeler is also not doing very well, can I expect going forward in Q4 and Q1 FY 2024, we will see a reduction on two-wheeler revenue mix side and increase on the other segment like passenger vehicle and TV side? Or still we have time to decide on that?
Yeah. I think it will take some time. I don't think it changes so drastically in the near term or short term. Maybe over a period of time, the mix may change as we continue to win more orders in passenger vehicles, but definitely not in the next 1 or 2 quarters.
Okay. Sir, currently, how much we are doing on the capacity utilization front?
See, I mean, it varies from plant to plant, product to product, but broadly we can say in the range of around 70%-73% across multiple businesses.
That's it from my side. Thank you, sir.
Thank you. A reminder to the participants, anyone wishing to ask a question, please press star and one. The next question is from the line of Deepak Pawar from Vasuki India Fund. Please go ahead.
Yeah. thank you. Am I audible?
Yes.
Yeah. First, congratulations on good set of numbers. My question would be in line with the previous question which was asked that, can you give us an idea that the splitting up the China JV is still remaining, you know, continuing your business with China, so you'll be doing it on standalone basis by your own. Am I right?
Yes. Yes, that's right.
What kind of business, I mean, as the split is not being disclosed, what kind of percentage of the bottom line that contributes from China?
It's too early to act on that. I think we should wait for the split to happen. Maybe once we are close to the reality, then we will talk about it.
Okay. I might have missed this part, but the current revenue share or for the 9 months revenue share, whatever you have, we have, you know, what, which, how much part or how much % does it come from EV?
EV. I think rightly, currently it's above 2%. That's what we mentioned.
2% for 9 months also? The complete 9 months?
Yeah, yeah. Correct.
All right. Thank you. Thanks for the opportunity, sir.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Chirag Shah from Nuvama. Please go ahead.
Hello. Yeah, thanks for the opportunity. Sir, I had a question on inventory which, one, what is this nature of high inventory that you have, whether it's finished products or it's more raw material? Secondly, ideally, you shouldn't be sitting on a very high inventory, right? Yours is a B2B business, you can adjust your production schedules, based on OEM indication, right? What is driving the high inventory if you can explain?
See, the inventory obviously comprises of all the components, including raw material, work-in-progress and finished goods also, maybe more in terms of raw material and work-in-progress, less in terms of finished goods. Ideally, what you are speaking about is an ideal world, but it's not so perfectly linked in terms of OEM schedules. At times there will be some fluctuation, which is what we are trying to correct and bring it down.
If I go a step further, right, in general, the supply chains that we operate in have been fundamentally challenged, right? The semiconductor in particular, I think, is an extremely well-known issue. I think for us, the priority was, you know, keep our customer lines going and invariably also help drive sales for ourselves, which meant that we were on higher inventory levels for a while. Also I think as you know, I think the market has also been challenged versus what has been expectation. However, I think that is the trend now we look to correct. That is really what is, you know, driving the reductions in inventory now going forward.
Okay. This is more of finished goods that is there, right? More semi-finished goods. It's not raw material linked.
No, it's honestly, it will be a split in the way that you would normally assume a split. In general, we've been holding higher levels of inventory.
It's the opportunity will be more in raw materials. That's what we are trying to say.
Yeah. Okay. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Vignesh Iyer from Sequent Investments. Please go ahead.
Thank you for the opportunity, sir. My question is on the debt side of it. I just wanted to know what is the cost of debt, I think stand, and is there any. I want to know about this INR 695 crore loan that is due in next 12 months. Are we planning to refinance or anything of that sort?
Yeah. See, interest rates, you know, where they are right now. Most of them are in the range of 9% to 9.5%. Coming to this refinancing, yes, we are working on the refinancing option. A major part of this INR 695 crores is in NCDs, which are coming up for repayment in Q1 and Q2 of next year. Other than that, we have few more loans. We are working on various proposals. We already got a few proposals from the bankers. We are working on them. We are trying to optimize them.
Okay. Thank you, sir. That's all from me.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question. I now hand the conference over to management for the closing comments.
Thanks again, for joining, listening and asking all your questions. We continue to pursue excellence in our day-to-day life for creating value for our stakeholders. Thank you.
Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. On behalf of Ambit Capital, that concludes this conference call. We thank you for joining us. You may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.
Thank you.