Earnings Call: Q3 2017

Oct 24, 2017

Welcome to the webcast for the 3rd Quarter Financial Reports. Today's conference is being recorded. There will be a Q and A session towards the end of the session. And now I will hand over to Mr. Jonas Gustafsson, President and CEO for OF AB. Please go ahead, sir. Okay. Good morning, everybody, and welcome to this a a presentation of the quarter 3 results for the UF Group. This is Joanna Gustafsson speaking, and I'm here with Stephen Johansen. CFO. We will also present a couple of the slides that we will present to you. So quarter 3, and I jump immediately into the highlights. Obviously, the re there is the report was released yesterday, so I'm sure that you have been able to look into the numbers We ended up on the top line net sales on just about SEK 2,600,000,000, which was 13% above last year in the same period. Quite a lot of driven from acquisition, but we also had a positive organic growth. We had an EBITDA on ended up at SEK 184,000,000. Also, that's up 8% compared to the same period last year. And then EBITDA margin, excluding the one off items related to our restructuring program ended up at 6.9 And the margin obviously came in slightly lower than last year, and we have some explanations related to that, mainly driven from from a a couple of areas within the infrastructure division that we will come back to. But all over, I would say it's a stable quarter where we're, also we're delivering a result, which I would say also slightly below our own expectation We would have hoped for a bit more, we know where we are having our challenges and we are working on them then. And clearly also the restructuring program that we are launching is also related to, informing that we will have a good EBITDA margin develop development moving forward. Before jumping into the numbers, again, then I think looking at Owa from an, more an overview, I would say that we are operating in a market that is still very, very favorable, and I will get back to that. And on top of that, we have some, I would say, global global audience national trends that really support the growth of our business. We are very much related that to 4 of the trends. We see smart cities and infrastructure increasing, We see more and more questions related to that. Industrial digitalization is something that's been going on for a few years. I know that myself, as you know, I've been working in the industry for many years, and I see that is something that is continuing to put a lot of demand on the knowledge we have at the West. Future Mobility, we see a big change in the whole automotive industry related to autonomous cars and also electrical cars where we also have a lot of offers from work. And then changing any landscape, we have been operating in the energy field with a lot of changes related to the big scale entity in Europe, but we see more and more a new energy landscape evolving where we will take a strong position moving forward. So 4 interesting crowns supporting the work business. Next slide, this is an overview of the statement for OS, on the left side, you see the market segments clearly we are quite exposed to infrastructure real estate rail and road. And then as I mentioned, we have a big stake in automotive and vehicle, still not into the power and energy and I would say in general, the portfolio of work is quite, I would say distributed which is good also because we see a kind of natural hedge in the segments we are we are focusing on. On the right side, you see the bit between public and private clients and clearly, we have a share of public, quite a lot related to our infrastructure business, 2 third related to private. And on the bottom, you see also the 10 largest clients we are working with, which as you see, quite a few of the big international global Swedish companies among others. A few highlights on the quarter 3 when you look on your project, we are continuously, of course, filling up our order pipeline, and a few examples here. We are, we are implementing a complete new digital production system for a company Milcon. This is one example where we see an increased demand, for connected and digital production systems. We see also on the 2nd bullet and increased willingness from many companies to give away packages or, fixed profits related to product development. And here, I would see, say that we see exam that they're continuing in a favorable way for OS. So that means that the part of business that's been very much related to professional service stash to evolve towards more and more package projects. And I think this is very, very positive for us. So we have examples of these kind of prophylskarnia sub and BOI systems that we're mentioning here. We have delivered or, order for a Turkey testing facility for a full blown manufacturer, in the infrastructure, we been winning an assignment for a new city center, here in Stockholm. We are we were winning a project management for a new district in here in Stockholm. And refurbishment of a thermal power plant in Czech Republic. Obviously, this is just a selection of all the orders and process that we've been winning over the third quarter. When it comes to acquisitions, we have made 3, the latest one in June which is a very exciting one. It's a leading design and user experience agency, with some content employees in Sweden. And that will add on to the order, the strong, position we are, having a thought with related design and architectures And I would say that if you count the complete offer within these two areas, I think we are ending up coming close to 600 employees working in this field. We believe that user experience as, service design is something that will increase in importance and also support, our ability to take on bigger and bigger projects within both infrastructure but also industry. So extremely exciting. Light blue, a small one related to lighting. And as you know, we are step by step building a stronger, stronger lighting business. This is, as I said, smaller niche, but are quite successful in this niche for Western. And in July, we were bringing in, some 4 employees related automation business within the industry division. So 33, quite, quite important acquisitions made during the third quarter. Looking on the market, I mean, the general view on the market is that it's basically continuing to be a strong market within all our segments. I mean, the industry market in Sweden, we know it's very strong. We can see that key segments in Automotive, Unipharma, Pulp and Paper are growing. So that's a good development. We see a continued, trend within ticket utilization. Where we see an increase demand for embedded systems and IT, competence. And we also see a continued rate of investments in the infrastructure market. So we don't see any slowdown in that market. What we could see maybe is that, I think CFM might come back to that. We see maybe that we are getting a portfolio with the some more of medium sized project, where we a couple of years back had a few very big ones. And that's also one of the explanations why we see that utilization in infra have taken a small hit during the quarter. We don't see this, as any long term issue. It's more that we are in this transition phase at the moment. Then in the market in Europe, it's continued to change, but I would say for OS, I feel that we have bottomed out our kind of energy operation that you know that we over some years have been a changing focus from big scale energy project in Europe and more and more setting up a new business in Europe and Scandinavia focusing on the energy part that is now evolving related to smart grids, and so on. So I think that's a very interesting, business that we've been more and more focused on. So all over, I think we see a continued strong market that will continue to support the OLED business moving forward. Then I'll be leaving to Stefan to take you through a couple of slides related to top line and profitability for CFM, please. Thank you, Jonas. Yes, the growth in the group continues. The total growth was 13.4 percent in the quarter, mainly driven by acquisitions which is, which was mainly related to acquisitions in the infrastructure business and in our core countries. Acquisition like Mead Consult and, headed to Skana, was a main part of the growth. The underlying market, as Jonas mentioned, is very good. And we see strong demand from almost all, all segments, which also reflects in our organic growth which was 3.6% if we adjust for the calendar effects and then FX changes. So that was a very high growth comparing to the previous quarters. Looking at year to date, we see a growth of 515.4 percent and an organic growth of 3%. We can also say we see if you look at our numbers, we can also see a shift from having having, having seen infrastructure as locomotive in terms of growth during the last years. And now we do see in the industry division coming up in a growth rate close to 6%. So we see a very strong market Profitability in an EBIT margin of 6.9 percent, down slightly compared to last year and mainly driven by a number of the good things is that we have identified the areas, which we can see a slight downturn in the profitability. And as we mentioned in our report, it's related to our infrastructure business in Norway. Related to our recent acquisition in all trainers. But so but action is taken is ongoing And we hope that we can turn the numbers into black figures in the next coming quarters. It's also related, as you has mentioned, to that we have been running a number of large projects such as Westlanken and Gardemun in in recent years. And that, and they are now phasing out and replaced by a number of midsize projects. So we have seen a slight gap in volumes or in the in the growth rate in the last quarter. But we do hope we can come back and replace those large orders with midsize and some other large orders, which also are reflected in our report. Such as Naca Center as a big project for us going forward. So the good thing here is that we have identified our problems and we are taking action. Another good thing is also that we have released our restructuring program, we take a hit of SEK90 1,000,000 in in a quarter. And we expect yearly savings of close to or approximately 100,000,000 set going forward with full effect from 2018. And another good thing is that we also that the management is not satisfied with the with with the profit. So we have, we will take actions to to make make sure that we we'll get back on track. Cash flow, if you look at cash flow from operating activities, and a KPI cash conversion rate, which means that how much of the EBITDA is translated into cash was 64% in the quarter compared to 72% last year. Q3 is normally weak quarter when it comes to cash flow from operating activities. So that we do have to keep in mind. And we also are in the project business and the payment terms in projects also, of course, affects the cash flow from a individual quarter. Acquisition, 300,000,000, 11 acquisition. And as I mentioned, the the main acquisition was Mead Consult and also, concept, which is in the architecture business. So all in all, we ended up in 2,800,000,000 in in in net debt, which try which is translating into net debt to EBITDAO of 2.6. Which is more or less in line with our targets. Then we will, also you have to flip through each of the divisions with a few more comments starting with the industry division, as we said, again, then we see an overall strong market. And, I would say, as you also know, my background is coming from the industry, I see the industry division as an extremely interesting base for continued growth forward. We have very strong positions in a few key segments such as automotive, food and pharma is another area. We are building our strong base in process industry and pulp paper again, and, as I said, both on the automotive side when it comes to R and D, but also relate to Advanced Manufacturing Systems, and on top of that, we have a very strong base in Sweden, both on product development and automation. So And I think it's also related from the numbers that we were able to drive an organic growth of 5.6%, which is, as Safa mentioned, very strong. Clearly, we expect also a good margin development for the industry division. We came out slightly lower than than last year. And I I see it we clearly, we are areas to improve, but we also have a bit of a timing effect, in the industry division. So not according to our own expectation when it comes to the margin. We are working on that. But in general, for the overall business as such, it looks quite good moving forward. Infrastructure, we talked about the fact that we are not happy, or we are not satisfied with the margin development, 6.5. I think that's an area where we have the strongest focus on. We have, as CFO said, identified where we have the problems, a few of them related to Norway, and and actions have been taken, and we expect that to improve gradually and moving forward. And the market as such is still very strong. And we will continue to really focus on driving top line, take a strong position in our core countries, but also of course then to improve the margin margin moving forward. So clearly, we are fully aware of that. But again, we see the market very strong and our business is also strong position. In NAFTA division, as you know, you know that we are changing our structure for starting next year. But so far, international today is a mixture of, energy business and also the acquisition we made in infrastructure at the Toscano. We see a stable margin of 7%. And we still feel that the market, the the businesses hit from the engine. So that's why we see a negative growth. But I would say that the work to, get back on track when it comes to margin in this business is, dealing with So I think here we see a continued stability and improvement in this part of the business. And the last division and technology showing a very strong result. Organic growth also 7% and a stable, EBITDA margin. This market is, of course, very interesting, clearly from a high, high demand from our customers. At the same time, it's, of course, a market where we are fighting to find the competencies because here, I would say that this more our growth ability is more restricted from the, you know, our ability to find the best people on the market for this business. But I can say that after the 6 months in August and looking on the the strong competence base we have in this area, And to see that being used more and more into the infrastructure and and, industry, I think we have a fantastic position for growing the overall business for who has moving forward. So if you look on that, I would say both technology and industry for strong organic growth. And you could see it here on the summary slide. We have, our challenges in the infrastructure when it comes to our margin, which we will, of course, correct. So all over, I would say that it's a quarter where we, are not happy with the margin, but we we feel we feel kind of good when it comes to our our market position then. And I think this is highlighted in the summary then that the result is such you would say it's a stable result and we delivered some 184,000,000, 6.9 clearly, it was slightly below last year, mainly related to infra. Our top line ended up at 2.6 So we saw a 13% up organic growth in both industry and technology we have addressed areas we have our challenge with. We see the market that sucks continue to be strong. The end market in Europe, I think we will turn that into a favorable thing for what because they are position ourselves into that energy market that will evolve. And again, we have we are continuing to be very offensive looking at, potential acquisition for Avan. The restructuring program is very important. So we we know that we have opportunities to improve our margin. So that is something that we will see starting to yield effect as of next year. And I think the investment of SEK 90,000,000 that we're doing, we will turn it into SEK 100,000,000 saving then that will actually support the margin development going forward. So that's, the commitment we're doing. And on top of that, then I'm very happy with the launch of our new strategic direction that we will also, talk more about when we have our Capital Markets Day here in November. We are taking a stronger position in delivering solutions and packages to our customers. We see that's something that will get more and more demand, not only on the operational production side of the business, but more and more also related to R and D And we have four areas that we are focusing on, which is international expansion. We are looking more and more how we can evolve and change our business model. Clearly, operational excellence is something that we're spending a lot of focuses now. I mean, the fact that we have our areas where we need to improve our margin flows that we have more to do when it comes to operations. And if if you anybody followed my journey in Sanjay over the last year. If it's one area that I've been working very hard with, it's actually operational excellence. And then finally, best in class people practice So these are the 4 areas. And the new strategy, basically can also be, used by system. So We are, as we speak now, setting a strong performance program related to these 4 areas within each of the divisions then having a clear commitment to both grow our business, but also improve our margin going forward. As you know, then we also have launched, adjusted, you could say financial targets So we are committing ourselves to a 10% organic growth, including add on acquisitions, but we also made it clear that on top of that, we will have platform acquisition. So I think our ambition in general is not that different towards the ambition we had before that is closer to a 15% growth. It's more that we are a bit more clear how to reach the 16%. And then again, EBITDA margin, 10% of our business cycle. And and this is clear now that we know that we have homework to do. No question about that. And we are fully committed to deliver the 10% EBITDA, but we know that we have somewhere to do before we are getting there. Net debt, I think, CFM mentioned that we have a new, target also here to be on 2.5. So all over, it's a quarter where we have some disappointments on the margin, but we have actions taken on that. We are seeing a continued growth in our business both organic and related to acquisition. So I think with that said, I would just want to highlight before we open up for questions that you're all extremely invited to, Capital Markets taker in saw online stock on November 8th, and I think we will, I know that we will present a very interesting program we will obviously look on our operational part, you know, related to how we will improve our EBITDA and so forth. But we will also take you through some very interesting growth areas like smart cities, automotive, how we think of the end of the market why do we invest in the signs? So, I think it would be a very interesting day from, I'm happy to welcome you to to to Stockholm at that day. So I think with that said, we will open up for We will take our first question from Joanne Dole from SEB. Please go ahead. Hi, Joanne Duhl at Resideo. Just a question on infrastructure. Could you just address, you talked about the slowdown in growth in your infrastructure division to what extent is that sort of market related and to what extent is it your ability to supply, arguably investments in this area is growing significantly faster than what you're delivering in terms of turnover growth. Also in this respect, explain a little bit what's happening in Raynaud's and what's, is it project losses that you're canceling this quarter or is it normal operations? Thanks. So I mean, I think in general, we don't see any slowdown on the market when it comes to infrastructure. I I see that, we have this transition that's clear that we have had a few quite big projects related to the Swedish business, like, you know, bypass, Stockholm, and that's Linked. And we had also Garde Moon in, in, in Norway. And now we see a more, medium sized perfect that we are managing them. And that, of course, puts another view on how you operate. And then here we saw some slight reduction of the utilization during the quarter. And see if I might comment more on that. And when it comes to rain, the same Norway, I think we have we have a strong program how to get that business back on crack, delivering, supportive, you know, margin And we have our challenges with that business, but we have a strong program in getting back on track on that one. Yifan, any more comments from your No. I think, yeah, I mean, there is, the company itself, the the the the employees, the engineering, and it's it's very skilled, and I have a high conference level. It's more how we run the operations. So it's more into what, you want to discuss earlier, operational excellence, rather than individual projects. Yes. Is there any cost out activities in Rainer term that should have sort of fixed results or is it sort of the same message would you convey to the market like 9 months ago? No. I think we also have a cost out, of course, clearly. But I think it's it's it's it's, at all, it's not just one thing that will fix it. We are looking on the portfolio sucks? What kind of business are we doing? How do we get up? You know, how how do we utilize are positioning or in a better way to get back the project, back the contracts, better prices. But on top of that, obviously, I look on the cost side. How to really drive up synergies in a much better way between the Norwegian and the Swedish business. So I think it's it's it's crossed the line, and and we see, of course, that we already see that we we see results in that business, but it it it takes a while now. But, the program is in place. Okay. Just you talked about timing effects on your industrial division. What did you mean by that chance? No, what I mean is that, you know, we have this, share of fixed profit within, the industry division. And and, we are closing these projects in a quarter by quarter. And as it is in a perfect business, you might have some effect on the EBIT margin related to this profit in the quarter. But, and and we saw some profit that did not deliver the same profitability as we expected, having a slight, slight negative impact on the margin. It's not for us, it's it's not re it's no issue from that side. So I would say compared to the infra business where we see clearly identified, business units In industry, we don't see that, it's more that we saw some of the profits coming out slightly lower than we expected. But I would say there's no real issue in the underlying performance of the units more than, obviously, we need to work on cost and, make sure that we have a high performance in operation, but not in the same way as we saw in the infrastructure where we have more units that we need to address. Alright. I'll get back in line. Thanks. We will take our next question. From Victor Lindbergh from Carnegie. Please go ahead. Good morning. Thank you. Can you specify more on the activities that should lead to the cost savings of SEK 100,000,000 from from Q1 next year? And also should there be a gradual effect coming in already in Q4? Well, the program is, related mainly or to 100% to unutilized engineers. We have reviewed all employees within the group, looking at people having a low utilization rate. During a long rather long period of time. So we really would like to to take action on increasing the utilization rate. That's one part. The other part is sales and general administration. So we're really we know we have seen that we I think we are not happy with the development in in in a in our SG and A. So that's the reason why we're also taking big efforts to reduce administration costs. So that's the 2nd part of the program. And then those two parts are being now being implemented in all divisions So all divisions are a part of the programs. So that's the that's the that's the overall concept for for for the project with the program. Okay. Okay. That's helpful. And is it roughly a fifty-fifty split here or should we expect that the best part is coming from improving utilization rates? Oh, yeah. We have we will not release that number, but the big part portion portion is coming from both. Yeah. But we will not give a number. All right. And looking, and you mentioned utilization rates and you're actually operating, I think, close to all time high levels now on billing ratios. And fairly flat year over year as well. But the margin is not really coming along. Can you help us understand the the correlation that longer term, I guess, should be there. Is it, salary increases that you cannot really compensate for, or Is it simply just a poor mix on the business mix? It would be helpful to understand that. And now we are, did you mix another the Q2, Q3 result is mainly related to the areas we addressed in in in in our discussion. So, but in general terms, yes, we have been able to compensate, salary increases by price increases in general. Of course, there are competition in the market, but, in general terms, yes. Regarding utilization rates, there are areas that we know that we can improve. If you look at the infrastructure division, we have seen a drop in utilization rates, during the quarter. So there are room for improvements I think in all areas, especially when we have identified, it identify those people that don't really are utilized to that extent, we are we we we we need we need them to be. So so I don't know if it's an answer Victor or Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Fine. That's fine. And, and continuing on on the organic growth now close to 2, well, maybe 3.5% if you adjust for calendar. Can you try to quantify how much of this is price increases versus volume increases when we look year over year. We we not sure that we are giving the We cannot give it though. We don't do this bit, but we are we are what we are stating that we are we are able to cover the wage increases. So that gives you an indication. Okay. All right. And maybe looking at my last question before I get back in line, I've been seeing a of insider selling in the past 3, 4 quarters, both managers, top managers selling shares quite a lot. But just to understand, Jonas, you're now new into the company. You've made your, strategic overview it would be interesting to hear your thoughts on, on the kind of pilot program that many companies have. And I think especially in light of being in a transitional period now. What is your goal? Is it to, increase your holding in, in a web shares or should we think about that going forward? No, absolutely. I think in general, I was not aware that we have a big insight of selling, but, in general, from my point of view, we we have a strong, focus on making, a stronger and successful company. That's why I joined Urs. And We we have a program today, a convertible program within the West. And, on top of that, I have also invested my my share shares We'll continue to see you off as a very interesting, to invest in. I think the strategy that we are putting in place where we more and more will focus on delivering complete solutions and profits related to fixed price different kinds of models will also be the way forward to, not only have utilization as the big lever for driving profitability. So we see that trend in general that both from the manufacturing side, but as we also mentioned on the product development side that companies are more and more willing to give away a complete fixed profit. And I think with our know how base, we can also offer even more than than the, you know, selling hours. So I I feel extremely optimistic in the in the west, of course. Okay. That's that's all for me now. I'll get back in there are one to ask a question. We will take our next question from John Doyle from SEB. Please go ahead. Yes, thanks. Yes, I was just wondering, Jonas, I think the strategy we should lay out, it's fairly clear. Just on I want to pass more philosophical note there. I mean, in order to realize this plan in a 3 to 5 year time horizon, What are you willing to invest in to reach this leading platform positions which you're talking about to achieve growth? How I'm sure how we should view that? Are you sort of willing to invest and take extra cost in the short term to achieve this in the long term? Or are you foreseeing fairly smooth progression to achieve this positions in the market? No, I think we need to invest, but clearly, we will put something to focus to do that in a in a smooth way. So I don't see, any reason to kind of have a heat heat up on the curves because I think that's not what we want to do. I think if you see how we operate today, I'm sure that by being a bit more focused and gathering that together, I think we still, we have room to do that also within the current business. So I think it's more about how we do it, how we use our internal resources, etcetera, more than setting up big investment program that will take a hit on our results. Because that would never be the way forward. So know that we need to invest in platforms and concepts, but, I think it's more it's much more related to how we operate today than that we need to put big programs in place. But clearly, we will have a smart structured way in building up our competence base, and use that more and more for the platforms moving forward. Okay. Do you think there will be emphasis on acquisitions in creating this sort of islands of expertise or will the emphasis be organic, of course, difficult to answer at this stage, but just your view on it? No, I think we need both. We have a a a hell of a a a platform internally when it comes to competencies, but I also know that if you look on the infra side, moving, moving towards the core countries, we need to look for platforms or niche related acquisitions we have done those in the past. So I think it will, like, it it will be a combination. And if you have to look on this in use company that it's not the biggest company, some 100 employees, but when you look on the competence data, having related to service design and user experience, to add that on to our already strong base in this sign, which adds on to the strong base we have industry in infrastructure. So when we get that kind of release that know how across our business, we have a very strong position, that and for. But on top of that, we will, of course, be aggressive on finding acquisitions. Absolutely. We will take our next question from Victor Lindbergh from Carnegie. Please go ahead. Yes, thanks. And I'm thinking about how you monitor and track the business I guess you do this on a weekly monthly and also quarterly basis, but can you share with us how rapidly you did discover Q3 was trending in the wrong or at least below your expectations and thereby, how we also could get some confidence and comfort in that Q4 is starting on a better note than that you actually ended Q3? The Q3 result was not a surprise. We we are monitoring our business very, very, very closely and have the weekly and monthly follow-up during full cost every month. So we we had indication on on that we had a a quarter that didn't reach up to last year's expectation last year, and our internal expectations rather early. So it's and that's the reason why we also have, also taking actions been able to take actions. So actions are ongoing. So it was not a surprise that we came out. It is on the 11th. Okay. All right. And looking at the cash flow, generation, I think you have been the past two and a half year building up working capital of close to SEK 650,000,000 over the cash flow statement. And you have been generating an EBITDA of close to 2.5 1,000,000,000 in the meantime. So just to see how the the working capital build up, looking at cash conversion being at close to 55% only is this in line with your expectations, or are you addressing this actively? Because I think you are underperforming at least peers, but it could obviously be business mix as well. Would be interesting to hear your thoughts about this. Well, I okay. You you you put a number on the table, Victor, but I have looked at comparing with peers. And, we are we are not underperforming. Okay. We we are slightly above. If you look at our working capital in relation to sales, we are around 10%. And, our peers are in the same range. On the other hand, we are in in more into project business. And if you are into project basis, you are you are you are more working capital intensive because you get especially when you're you're into automotive business, you are you have a payment terms that that are negative for for for for working caps and cash flow. But to Victor in general terms, we are in line with with peers. And and to add on to that, I think in the general performance program, we will of course address and do everything we can then. Moving into perfect business to see, you know, prepayment terms and things like that to do everything we can to improve. But I don't definitely I think we shouldn't expect, I mean, if we go into project business, we have to to make a trade off of EBIT margins versus a cash flow, slightly. That's that's the so that's the reason where we are slightly above peers. But it's not that much. Okay. And should we expect a seasonally good quarter in Q4 in terms of it on the release as well, do you think? Yes. Yes. The calendar effect is positive in Q4. So we will get a very nice cash flow in in. I expect a very good nice cash flow in Q4. Okay. That's good. And and also finally finalizing on that note, we saw some media articles the past week on big incumbent industry companies being more inclined to actually improve the the number of DSOs, as the benefit of, let's say, subcontractors. And I guess that would also benefit us or is this something that we shouldn't pay too much attention to? I I will I will wait to make that conclusion. Later. Okay. Alright. Alright. And final for me then looking at the quarter as such, Is it fair to say that earnings were partly hampered by you having elevated level of internal focus on this strategic overview in the quarter or is that something that you more top management spend time or did it I'm I'm the person present convince that it's more related to the second part. So I I don't see any correlation between the the as, as you know, also then, Victor, that we have clearly identified where we have the problems, as we said, they in Norway and as I said, the transition from big to medium sized project, and I don't really see the correlation between the strategic review that we have done on the management side and under the profits. Okay. That's, yes, that's good. Pretty clear. And opposite, I think the strategy we are releasing and the direction should support the business, and it will So I don't see the drama. I'm I'm 100% confident that we will address the the the areas where we are not performing according to plan. I think we have a super strong base. We know where we have our our our problems, and again, we will address them. All right. Okay. Thank you. There are no questions at the moment. Okay. So then, thank you all for calling in. And again, you are all very welcome to our Capital Markets Day in November 8 in Stockholm. So again, thank you very much for listening in and have a great day. Thank you. That will conclude today's conference. Thank you for your participation. Ladies and gentlemen, you may now disconnect.