Good morning, everyone, and welcome to the AddLife Q1 presentation. This morning, we will take you through the slide presentation and then open up for questions afterwards. As always, if we don't have time for every question, don't hesitate to reach out to us for follow-up questions after the call. I'm very happy to announce the fact that AddLife is starting the year in a very strong way. For a long time now, AddLife has been positioning the company for an expected recovery in the healthcare system after the pandemic. During the Q1, we have seen this expected development happen in a significant way. Surgical procedures have been increasing all across Europe, and with that, we can see a strong organic growth of 13% in the Medtech business area and 10% in Labtech.
On top of that, we see the margin development is in a positive trend, supported by significant volumes, but also product mix and an efficient price management. Looking at COVID-19, this may be the last time we actually present this slide. As many of you know, the COVID-19 testing has decreased significantly and is now a part of a broader respiratory test panel, so therefore not meaningful for us to report separately going forward. Nevertheless, in Q1 last year, Q1 2022, we had a significant COVID sales of around SEK 500 million, so that does impact the comparative numbers for the current quarter. Now the market has really normalized. We see elective surgeries growing again. We see customer access is restored, and with that, our ability to interact with customers and drive commercial activities.
Looking at some of the numbers, we saw that the net sales as a total declined by 5%. This is, of course, driven by the reduction in COVID-19-related sales that came from around SEK 500 million to zero in the current quarter. EBITDA margin is holding up nicely. It's important to know that we have also reversed some contingent considerations. Excluding this, the EBITDA margin for the group as a whole is 11.5%. We continue to invest in digital solutions in the home care area. That investment has increased compared to the corresponding quarter last year.
We are happy to see that the EBITDA margin is indeed in a positive trend and has been now for the Q3 in a row. In Labtech, we can see that the, of course, the COVID-19 sales that has contributed to the profit margin has now ceased. We see a solid underlying volume growth and effective price management in a good way countering that effect. We also see a very strong revenue development in Medtech combined with the product mix. The companies are doing a fantastic job in handling the prices in a, in a time of inflation and increases in cost from our suppliers.
Worth noting, of course, as we look at the complete group EBITDA margin is that we do have growth in the eye surgery business, but the profitability is still lower than it was in Q1 2022. Looking at the graphs in the bottom, you can see that the Labtech profitability is, of course, coming down because of the COVID-related revenues that are gradually being phased out, but it's holding up still. We maintain a level of profitability that's higher than it was before the pandemic. In the Medtech business area, we see a positive trend in the margin as well. If we take a little bit more look at the Labtech business area, as I mentioned earlier, we have a 10% organic growth.
We are successfully defending the EBITDA margin in spite of the reduced or discontinued COVID-19 sales. We are very actively working on developing the portfolio and introducing new products. Looking at the subsegments of Labtech, the business unit diagnostics, there we see testing volumes is really stabilizing now after the pandemic. A very healthy underlying growth in the business paired with active price management has given a strong development to the business as well as the profitability. We do see an increased interest in service and efficiency improvement solutions due to the staffing shortage that's evident also in the diagnostics field. This staffing shortage can also, in some cases, delay tenders and the initiation of new product implementation.
In the biomedical research area, we see some concerns regarding new product initiation in tax-funded research, but I would say that that is more than countered by a very strong activity in the drug discovery and biomedical field. We see also a very positive trend and huge customer interest in emerging technologies such as gene sequencing, bioprocessing, cancer immunology. Also in the biomedical and research business unit, we're doing a great job in active price management. Also very happy to announce the fact that one of our companies within the group, Biolin, has launched a very innovative new product line in surface science that has been very well received in the market. Moving forward to Medtech, as I mentioned earlier, the healthcare markets are clearly recovering, something we see across the board all over Europe.
This has resulted in a positive organic growth for us at 13%. We also see a positive margin improvement, again, supported by volume, product mix, and active price management. We are also increasing our activities in terms of adding new products, also sometimes in collaboration between the different companies where we are becoming a stronger partner to our suppliers. If we take a look at the business units within the Medtech business area, we can see in the healthcare, health service and hospital business that the trend is really clear. Elective surgery, surgical procedures are increasing all across Europe. We see, based on this, an increased demand, particularly in orthopedic surgery, anesthesia, laparoscopy, and general surgery, which are all areas that we, over the past few years, have invested a lot to position ourselves within.
As I mentioned earlier, the organic growth confirms this trend. We are happy to report a 13% growth. The team is defending the margin through good price management. Sometimes, of course, we see challenges still, based on foreign exchange exposure, freight costs, and so on. The team is doing an excellent job in managing that. In the eye surgery business, we're happy to see that revenues are indeed growing. The margins are in a positive trend compared to mid-last year. In comparison to the Q1 2022, it is a lower level of profitability, mainly due to unfavorable product mix. On the home care side, we see a very healthy revenue development in all our businesses.
Of course, the home care portfolio really does address the need that's really growing in society, where we, where we want to allow for people to live at home for longer and also have a better quality of life and care at home. In relation to this, we're very happy to see that our recently launched digital solutions for home safety and security systems is growing really well. We are adding users at a good pace. We continue to invest in these digital services, for this quarter at the level of SEK 15 million, which is should be compared to SEK 7 million previous year. Of course, that impacts the results in the quarter. A little bit of an observation around market trends and implications for AddLife.
We are clearly now in a post-pandemic environment, and elective surgery is recovering at a rapid pace. We think that this will have to be an increased level of activity for a long period of time to handle the waiting lists and backlog in the healthcare system across Europe. At the same time, the healthcare systems are challenged by staffing shortages, and this is true across the region. These things, of course, means that the hospitals will have to focus quite a bit on improving efficiency and outcome, and that opens up an opportunity for us. Of course, with increased costs for staffing, the hospitals will also have to be more selective and outcome-focused in how they choose their technologies.
They will rely to a larger extent on services and efficiency-enhancing products, which we are well positioned to provide. If you take a look at the competitive situation, we do see that the trend that's been there for quite some time in terms of distributor consolidation is continuing. There is a strong logic for the smaller local regional distributors to join forces, and that's of course, part of the AddLife strategy, but we are seeing other companies also doing the same thing. Interesting, we are also seeing that the global suppliers or global manufacturing companies are changing their business model quite a bit right now.
We see that there is a lot of spinoffs, there's a focus on the core businesses, and we also see that some people are struggling with profitability and laying off people in multiple countries. All of these changes, of course, opens up opportunities for us, the opportunity to perhaps take on more product portfolios that are not viewed as core anymore. A change in staff will also likely affect the focus of the teams so that we remain a strong partner to our customers and be unaffected by those changes that our competitors are going through. All in all, a pretty good situation for AddLife and the position that we have chosen.
Of course, when we look at the business outlook, we need to think about what's going to happen in the healthcare system going forward. If we take a look at the AddLife current footprint, we can see that we have changed the profile of the business from previously being a majority in the Labtech area to nowadays, the majority of the business is indeed within Medtech, with over 60% of the revenues coming from that business area. Within Medtech, home care is a smaller business, but with a good growth prospects, and the hospital business area, very large and now benefiting in a strong way from the recovery in elective surgeries.
As you can see on the map, we are quite geographically diverse nowadays, exposed to almost all countries in Europe in a very balanced way. That, of course, gives a further level of stability. Looking at an updated picture of all the segments that we're in is a quite impressive picture. As you can see, we are present in many, many segments, and these segments are all selectively chosen because of their growth and profitability characteristics and the fact that we can play a leading role within all these segments. The broad segment exposure in carefully selected areas, of course, also provides a good stability in our business going forward. It's interesting to take a look at healthcare spending and how that has historically developed over time.
As you can see here on the slide, healthcare spending, it grows in a very, very stable way, irrespective of GDP growth. As you can see on the graph, sometimes there are dips in the GDP, but the share of the share of money spent on healthcare is stable and growing. Of course, that can be reflected as well in the AddLife performance, in this case, dating back to 2014, where we have a very stable revenue development as well as EBITDA margin development. Of course, a bump in the numbers during 2020-2022 with the impact of COVID-19, but the underlying trend is quite stable and positive.
Wrapping up the overview of how the business is performing, of course, you all know the targets we have set for ourselves, those remain in place. We shoot for a 15% annual profit growth through a combination of organic and acquired growth. Of course, focusing on profitability, and in our case, we define it as profit over working capital, is key. That helps us to finance growth through our own cash flow generation. During the quarter, the EBITDA declined, of course, compared to probably the final quarter of significant COVID revenues. That explains the decline. We hope to see a change in that direction soon. On the profit over working capital, we are still way above our target of 45%.
With that, I hand over to Christina to take us through some of the financials.
Yes. Thank you, Fredrik. Looking at the financials, we had a solid 12% organic growth in the quarter, which was great. Zooming out, you can see that Labtech has been quite stable over the quarters with a pickup during this quarter specifically. As Fredrik said, sample volumes, et cetera, are normalizing, so that is good looking forward. With Medtech, we have seen a clear recovery starting last quarter and definitely continuing to this quarter. The increase in surgeries has also been supported by introduction of new suppliers and new products supporting the organic growth. The revenue growth during the last two to three years has been supported by organic growth, COVID sales, and acquired growth. This is the last quarter where we have tough COVID sales in the comps. The last quarter's revenue growth is supported by recurring revenue and recovery in the market.
Looking forward for 2023, we will continue to focus on organic growth and also introduction of new products and new suppliers. The growth margin this quarter is slightly lower compared to Q1 2022. It has been a positive development over the last quarters. Our companies have done a great job making sure that the strength of the growth margins continues. That has been done through product mix and also active price management, where they have been able to pass on price increases to the customers. The COVID sales was handled within the current organization, meaning that the EBITDA margin increased during this period of time. It also shows the ability for us to handle more products within the organization and also add on more products.
The increased EBITDA margin during the last quarters, if we reverse the continued consideration, like Fredrik talked about and showed earlier, has been achieved via a recovery in the Medtech, mainly via the newly acquired companies, the ability to defend the growth margin, and also cost control. Cost has, though, increased slightly in this quarter, mainly driven by increased sales activities, marketing, and salary increases. If we look at the cash flow, it's been just about SEK 100 million operating cash flow in the quarter. We've seen also in this quarter increased inventory. We have had historically problems with the supply chain services. That has definitely improved, so it's not as such a big problem, but we still have some component shortages disturbing the picture. Also, we have introduced new suppliers and new products, which is great, but it often ties inventory in the beginning.
The newly acquired companies which are strong within surgery have a slightly different business model compared to what we have seen in the Labtech companies historically. They do carry more inventory because they need to have demand for quick deliveries. Also that often comes with higher margins. Cash flow is a constant focus. To deleverage is definitely something that we will focus on going forward continuously. We have been working with awarenesses in the companies and also introduce processes, et cetera. This is a structure work that will take some time, though. Looking at the debt. The loan towards the banks has been unchanged between the two quarters. It is normal bank loans that we are carrying. The EBITDA rolling twelve months has gone down as a consequence of Q1 last year being the last COVID-boosted quarter.
That is the reason why the leverage has increased from 3.5 to 3.7. Focusing on cash flow and reducing the leverage via self-generated cash flow is a continuous focus going forward.
In February this year, we announced an update to the organization, and I'm very happy to share with you all that that organization is off to a great start already. Within the LabTech business area, we're retaining the business unit structure with strong and experienced business unit leaders. On the MedTech side, we're strengthening the team because of the strong growth historically and in the future that we're planning for, and we have added two new leaders to the team, Luca and Tara, who both have very long operational CEO background within the company and also certainly bring an international perspective to the extended management team. Peter, who was previously the head of the LabTech business area, has accepted to take on the role as Chief Commercial Officer. He has a long history within the company, both within AddLife and before that Addtech.
With this new organization, we're securing continuity, we're making sure that we can take good care of the growing business that we have, and of course, setting ourselves up for future growth as well. In addition, we're ensuring an international perspective, strong operational experience, and a continuation of culture and our well-tested and successful business processes. If we sum up the quarter, we can say that we have indeed as a company positioned the business to handle the post-pandemic market. Now we're seeing that change happening and the significant increase in elective surgery all across Europe. We're finding that that positioning and that approach is indeed working. In orthopedic surgery, anesthesia, laparoscopy, and general surgery, the demand is significantly growing, and these are areas where we have become increasingly strong over the past few years.
This market change is indeed resulting in a strong organic growth for both Labtech and Medtech, we are really happy to see a positive margin trend driven by volume, product mix, and active price management. We are active in a market with a, with a strong stability in spite of business cycle. In, also thanks to the fact that we are represented all across Europe in, and in many carefully selected segments, we have a stability in revenues, profit, and cash flow, irrespective of the market conditions. We have strengthened our commercial team to continue this, the successful business model and the successful business development going forward.
Our priorities remain, first, to protect and improve the profit, to drive organic growth, to make sure we are efficient in our capital management and generate a healthy cash flow and start preparing again for acquisitions. With that, we sum up the quarter, thank you for your attention, now we can open up for questions. Thank you very much. All right. I think we are ready to take questions. We see that some of you have raised your hands to ask a question. Maybe we start with Carl.
Yes. Hello, and good morning. I have a couple of questions. Maybe we can start on the margin side in the Labtech business. Think that looks quite strong, and the underlying margin looks to be in line with Q4 levels. When I look at the historical figures, it's always been down by around more than 200 basis points almost. Can you give me any more color on the margin development there sequentially? If there were any, let's say, COVID volumes in the quarter, because I guess that is a question. You don't re-report it anymore, but I would expect that there were some COVID volumes maybe. That would be my first question to you.
Thanks, Carl. Good question. I think we're happy about the strong margins in Labtech. I think the team has done a fantastic job. As you know, around the half a billion Swedish in COVID sales is indeed disappearing, it's impressive that we're, you know, defending the margins in such a strong way. The margins are higher than they were before COVID on average. Strong development there. There is nothing significant in terms of a one-off or anything like that. I would say that COVID volumes are negligible. You know, there's nothing really there. How come we are protecting the margin in such a strong way? I think obviously the team is doing an excellent job in protecting margins.
We have gone through a period of price increases from suppliers, they have done a good and proactive job in countering that with price increases to the customers. We see good volume growth, and the, you know, and the good product mix for us. We are always trying to drive new products with the higher margins and so on. That's, I think, is what we're seeing. There's nothing. There's no one-off effect or anything like that in the Medtech numbers.
Okay.
Is there anything you'd like to add to that?
Yeah. No.
No?
No, I think that's.
Great. Yeah.
That sums it in a good way.
If we then move on to the margins in the Medtech side, I think they were flat-ish year-over-year. I just wonder, you know, Q1 is always a strong quarter now with Healthcare 22 in the figures. What, what should we expect here going forward? I guess AddVision, as you said, was still down margin year-over-year. Should we expect the margin to increase year-over-year in Q2 as well, or what do you think?
Well, great question. I think there are some factors here to keep in mind. You know, very strong quarter for Healthcare 21, which is usually the case as they are dealing with customers with a fiscal year that ends in Q1. Expected strong development there. You know, I think they did an amazing job. We see the similar pattern in other companies as well. You know, in particularly the ones that are heavily impacted by different types of elective surgeries, such as MBA and so on. Very strong margins in the quarter. There is no season effect like that. It's only Healthcare 21 that has a beneficial Q1 seasonal effect.
AddVision is, you know, evolving in terms of sales, but the margin is still very low, unfortunately, significantly lower than the previous year. Of course, we're seeing a positive trend there, but I think we shouldn't expect dramatic changes in the short term. We don't want to give an outlook on the margin, but those are some of the dynamics that are ongoing. I do think that the recovery in surgical procedure seems to be a solid trend. We do think that that will continue. I don't want to give any guidance on the margin more than that.
Okay, that's great. Just a question on the cash flow. I mean, it was a bit soft maybe in the quarter here. I mean, also when I look at the rolling 12 month basis, I think free cash flow is around 40% of adjusted EBITA. I'm just curious, what is needed for that to improve going forward, basically? Of course, some is interest payments, I mean, CapEx has always also gone up quite a lot. I'm just curious on the cash generation, what is needed for that to improve going forward, basically?
Yeah. No, it's a good point. Maybe I'll start, and you can fill in, Christina. I think, you know, it's. We are certainly have an ambition to improve the cash flow. This is something that the companies are always working with some good programs in place. We are also increasing the activity in that area, you know, finding ways to improve it going forward. There is, of course, some factors to keep in mind here. Some of our recently acquired businesses, they are very trusted suppliers to their customers. In this surgery arena, you are expected to be able to deliver very quickly for upcoming surgical procedures.
With that comes a commitment of keeping stock of various components and sizes and products lines and so on. We have to do that in order to be a trusted supplier. That. You know, fortunately, though, that relationship of a trusted supplier also comes with quite healthy margins. There's a little bit of a trade-off going on there that differs a little bit from some of the more traditional AddLife companies. On top of that, we are taking on a number of new suppliers, which is really good. That is something that bodes well for the future.
In the short term, though, it often means that we say that we're going to start selling these products, we start by taking on an inventory of that product line. There would be a, you know, there would be an inventory effect before there is a sales and margin effect. There is that factor as well that we need to keep in mind. Maybe you can continue and add something to that maybe.
Maybe we should add as well, we have been talking about these supply chain disturbances for a number of quarters, and that has definitely improved. We do still actually see a few hiccups, especially on the component side, where there might be shortages, et cetera. You also asked about the CapEx, and that has also increased during the years. Also mainly actually related to the newly acquired companies since they are having higher CapEx, meaning then more fixed assets in relation to rental and things like that. Also we have intangibles in that one as well. Since we are driving a few development projects in few of the companies, that adds up as well then.
Okay, that's great. Just one last one from my side here on the covenant side. I think you touched on this before. You have said that you need to have an interest coverage, which I think of more than four. Is that correct?
Yes.
The covenants.
Correct.
I just wonder what that is based upon, because I think you said before that it's hard to calculate. but I mean.
Yeah
Is it some kind of EBITA?
E-EBITDA.
Okay. EBITDA. Yeah. That's adjusted EBITDA, I guess.
It's an adjusted one as well. Yeah.
Okay. Okay. Okay. Yeah, that's great. Thank you.
No, thank you, Carl. Good question. We continue here. I think we have Gustav, you raised your hand as well for some questions, right?
Yes. It's Gustav here from Nordea. In regards here to build on the cash flow, in regards to the networking capital, you have talked in Q4, I think it was, that you expect a release for the full year. Is that something you still expect or?
Certainly we want to drive that. I think we're seeing the impact that we just mentioned here. They are, you know, they're certainly real. We will certainly be driving initiatives, you know, on top of what's already ongoing to get a, you know, an improvement in cash flow during this year.
In regards to the inventory build up here, would you say that you're on sort of satisfied levels or are you expecting to tie up even more here?
good question. I think we're not. Well, I think we think it's a bit high right now. I think that's not an overstatement. We'll certainly dive into that a little bit, and we will try and improve the efficiency there. However, we will be careful not to damage some of those strong customer relationships and that very good business and good margins that comes with it. Yeah.
Okay, perfect. Also on AddVision here, we have previously talked about the margins sort of troughing out mid-single digits. Can you provide some sort of ballpark where the margin is today, or have we seen an increase from Q4 to Q1 at least?
Well, I think Q1, you know, was a not so bad quarter last year, but after that, it has been kind of in a bit of a downhill trend. Recently it's improving. The Q3, we hope was kind of the rock bottom. After that, it has indeed improved. Not dramatically, but it since Q3 of last year, it is in a positive trend, but it's still very low. Very low. Yeah.
Yeah. Okay. Okay. I see. Also in regards to the positive commentary you provide about the elective surgery here, are there any regions in particular that sticks out as more positive, would you say?
I think we see the same thing across the board. All the companies we talk to, are giving us a very consistent message that this is indeed happening. The elective surgeries are coming back in a significant way. We were, of course, expecting that, but the pace of it is always tricky to figure out. Then, of course, how staffing shortages will impact and so on. It's, it's pretty clear the message from all our companies that the elective surgeries are developing in a strong way. We're happy about that. Also, of course, when we look at our industry peers, we see a similar pattern. You know, a lot of companies are reporting, elective surgery growth and strong growth.
I think it's a very consistent theme, I think.
Then just the last one here from my side. In terms of larger capital items, you commented, at least in Q4, that you're seeing an increased hesitance from customers and sort of hospital systems. Are you seeing an improvement now in Q1 or?
I think that is still there. Possibly, you know, due to, you know, budget, you know, longer term budget question marks, if you will. Then I think a big driver is also the fact that if you are short on staff and you have a lot of patients to take care of, you may, you know, hesitate before taking on the implementation of a major new technology or something that changes the processes and that also requires a lot of training for the staff and so on. This is the thing that you probably will not want to do. The same can go in sometimes with tenders. We see that sometimes, you know, driving a tender process is a very intense type of activity.
Usually, the, you know, the healthcare staff are not that keen to change technologies and so on. We are seeing some tenders being pushed out in time. You know, sometimes that's bad because we might want to get into a new segment, but actually more often than not, it's good news because we then retain our current, you know, setups for a longer period of time. I think it's a bit of a mixed effect on us, but I think primarily positive.
Okay, perfect. That's all for me. Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you. Good questions. We have, Mattias, right?
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah. Good morning. Mattias Häggblom, Handelsbanken. Thanks for taking my questions. First one is coming back to the interest ratio coverage. I know the topic was up for discussion during last call and also previous question today touched upon this. I still want a bit more since the discussion took place in conjunction with your year-end report. You've now published your annual report, and in the report there's a table with historical ratios, including interest coverage ratio, and the table is blank for 2022 and interest ratio coverage, which I think at least for me looks somewhat confusing. I guess the question goes, is there anything additionally you can say to help us understand how you do your calculation? And secondly, tied to this, what would the updated number be?
I know you said in conjunction with the year-end report, roughly 40 x, so well above your covenants of 4 x. An additional color would be helpful. I have a few follow-ups.
Hmm. Yeah. Okay. We need to double-check in the annual report what has happened, because last time I checked it was actually there. I think that what we say in the annual report is 16 end of the year. When we do reporting towards the bank, as I think we have said previously, we do some adjustments. That's why it's not straight off, obviously, in the figures. If you do the calculation for this quarter based on an EBITDA and then towards the interest cost, then it will be 10 and the covenants calculation then will be just above 10.
Good. That's helpful. Staying on the balance sheet.
Yeah
In terms of interest expense, they were down sequentially from Q4 and even below Q3 levels. Help me think of this cost item going forward, not least in light of an environment with rising interest rates.
Right. Did you look at the financial net maybe? If you look at the financial, the expenses for the interest, they actually went up. Interest cost only or interest expenses was SEK 55 in this quarter compared to SEK 46, I think, Q4. What we also had was actually in financial net, you of course have done the expenses for interest, but also you have a recalculation of exchange rates, et cetera. We actually had a gain for this quarter. That's why you end up with SEK 52. The interest as such has increased, and that has increased then depending on the interest being connected to CIBOR or EURIBOR.
Okay, maybe less dramatic change than people would anticipate? Anything you can add in terms of your maturity? I know there are some details in the annual report. you know, current and non-current liabilities, but anything you can add to help us think about this item, given the leverage of the company?
It hasn't actually changed. Like we have said previously, half is current and half is long-term, but the margins or the interest rate is built up by the margin, which hasn't changed. It is the EURIBOR, CIBOR that is then making the change increasingly then right now.
Good. That's clear.
Yeah.
Last question for me. In terms of margins for Labtech, they held up surprisingly well with 12.7%, as previously discussed here on the call. In the report, you still remind us that pre-pandemic levels were 10%-12%. Given that there were no COVID-related revenues in the quarter, why should we not think of this as the new margin profile? Is that because the mix was in particular beneficial in the quarter, and as a consequence, we shouldn't get too carried away? Is this just a temporary expectation and more of a conservative statement?
That's a great question. I think we think that the Labtech team has done a fantastic job delivering these types of margins here. That's fantastic. It is a little bit above what was the case before the pandemic. I think that's a good sign because nothing drastically has changed within the Labtech business. Of course, in Medtech, we've done a number of very large acquisitions. The profile of Medtech business has certainly changed during the COVID years. In Labtech, it has changed only to a limited extent. We have made a few acquisitions that are, of course, you know, they're doing well. They have good margins. That is a factor.
It shouldn't be a dramatic change from what was the case before COVID. Of course, the work internally is a lot focused on, you know, price management, you know, getting new volumes on board. As we have stated before, we have been able to handle all this extra COVID volume with the within the current organization. No extra people were hired. That is good because we don't have to work on layoffs or anything like that. And on top of it, we also have proven to ourselves that we can indeed handle bigger volumes. There is a big effort to drive volumes. The only conclusion you can draw here clearly is that it has worked well in this Q1. That's pretty good.
Of course, we're launching new products that normally have a good margin profile as well. That is, of course, helped by the fact that we have now full access to customers and so on. It is really hard to say exactly what the reasonable margins should be. Post-COVID, we have indicated that it should be more towards the traditional level, so 10%-12%. Now we're slightly above that, and that's fantastic. I don't want to give, you know, more specific guidance than that, actually. Yeah.
Good. That's all for me. Thanks so much.
Thank you. Thank you. Then I think we have another question from Carl, right?
Yes. Yes. The question on the price increases. You mentioned that you were helped a bit by price here, and I guess you have maybe some annual clauses, index clauses that kicks in in the start of Q1. Would it just be interesting to hear how much of the organic growth you expect this or you estimate is driven by price? I know it's hard when you have a lot of different subsidiaries, but just a estimate would be very helpful, I think.
Of course. You are correct. It is extremely challenging to give an exact number based on that because it's product mix plays into this quite heavily as well. I think it's reasonable to understand or assume that, you know, a part of the growth is of course, related to price increases. I don't want to give a specific number to that. You know, that'd be a few percentage points, I would imagine.
Yeah.
You know, I cannot give anything more detailed than that. I am, you know, the companies are doing really well. You know, this has been a topic for many months for us now, how to handle those price increases that we face, even in conditions where there are fixed prices in the contracts and where their customers are under some pressure themselves and whatnot. You know, this is an area where the team has done a really good job. That's impressive.
Yeah. Then just a follow-up on Mattias's question there on the interest cost. I mean, they increased sequentially from I think SEK 46 million to SEK 55 million, if I remember correctly. Now if you look on what's going on in the interest rates market, it looks like steep rise and et cetera is continuing up. I guess we should expect interest costs to go up in the upcoming quarters as well.
Yes.
Yes. If so.
Yeah. That's great.
Yeah.
Then I have just one final one on networking capital, I mean, more of a longer-term question, because as you said, you have both companies with higher margins, but maybe also higher inventories to be able to supply. So I'm just curious, networking capital was before maybe 15%, 16% of net sales, rolling twelve months before pandemic, I think. Now it's closer to 25%. What, what is a sustainable level? Also what is kind of needed for you to reach or sustain the profits divided by working capital of 55%?
Yeah, I think that's a, that's a great question and something that we will be working on going forward. It's, it's important to note here that like, just like you stated, that some of the new businesses are indeed, you know, more heavy on the working capital and in primarily inventory. They're doing a good job, it seems, on DSO and DPOs. I think it's also important to note that the structure of our business as it stands today, it's that Labtech is much lighter when it comes to, work, you know, their working capital, compared to Medtech. That's also a factor to keep in mind. I don't want to give a kind of an estimate of what it should look like going forward.
Of course, as the companies that we have acquired are now completely rolled into the total, so to speak, that effect, you know, is behind us. The effect of, you know, that we see when we take on new products and new supply agreements. You know, that may come and go a little bit from time to time. Now the teams are doing an excellent job in, you know, adding new and substantial agreements, distribution agreements that we're really happy with. You know, big product lines, that will be very beneficial for growth and profits going forward. That is happening. We are a bit mixed about it.
You know, we're happy about those new agreements that are coming in place, but we are and will increasingly going forward keep an eye on how much capital we tie in the business. Yeah, I think that as much as we can say, would you say something more to that, Christina? Yeah.
Sure. Goals with positive working capital, and we are working towards those of course.
Yeah. Exactly.
We saw those.
Yeah. We'll have a meeting with all the, with all the MDs from all the pro-portfolio companies here, you know, in early May. This will be a topic that we will be discussing.
Sounds good. I got a question here from an investor actually that I think is maybe the million-dollar question in AddLife, right? That is, at what level of net activity are you? Are you looking to acquire businesses again? Because now it's 4.2 x, if you adjust, I think, for the positive one-offs. Just what kind of level are you comfortable with, I guess?
I think we all agree, and I think we've communicated as well, that we think that the debt levels are a bit high now. Our ambition is to reduce it. We do think that we, that we can make smaller acquisitions, even before we are maybe at this optimal level. You know, I think we've communicated that we think, you know, being between 2.5 and 3, that type of range would be good. Smaller types of acquisitions, more of the type that has been the traditional strength of AddLife and even Addtech, you know, in those days. You know, the smaller type of acquisitions, that normally come with a very different, and much lower type of valuation, much lower multiples.
I think we can safely do a few of those, before we have reached, so to speak, our ideal leverage. So that's. We're not waiting for a certain number and then we start moving. We are moving. We are having active dialogue with the potential acquisition targets. It will be the smaller type, small to medium-sized traditional type acquisitions.
Yeah. That's great. It's cool. Thank you for answering all of my questions and have a good day.
Yeah. Thanks, Carl.
Thank you.
Great questions. Do we have any more questions from the audience? All right. Thank you. Thanks so much for calling in, thanks for a good discussion and good questions that you raised. You know, we'll talk more going forward. Thanks, have a good day.
Thank you.