Earnings Call: Q4 2019

Feb 19, 2020

Report 2019. Today, I am pleased to present CEO, Ilija Matjian. For the first part of this call, all participants will be in listen only mode and afterwards, there'll be a question and answer session. I will now hand the call over to your speaker. Please begin. Hello, everyone. My name is Ilya Batljan and I'm CEO of SVB. Thank you very much for attending. Let me start to point out that the SBB is today the largest player in most safe asset class in the world in the Nordic social infrastructure. We are largest in Nordic, and we are probably among the largest in Europe. Slide 2, please. If you look at the development last 12 months, I think the best way to describe it and the best way to understand where SVB is heading is to first look what we have been delivering. Last quarter, we are delivering profit of SEK 1,300,000,000 which adjusted for nonrecurring costs relating to the transaction, refinancing and the repurchase of bonds amounts to SEK1.4 billion, which is strong increase compared to the corresponding quarter of the previous year. And at the same time, you can see that we are delivering strong net operating income that is following by increasing cash flow on from the last 12 months with more than 200%. And on top of that, the most important message is our earnings capacity rolling 12 months with very strong performance. You can see that we have rental income of SEK 5 €200,000,000 and NOI of €3,700,000,000 And then at the end of the day, adjusted operating profit of SEK2.8 billion or SEK2.29 per share. If you then look and take into account the dividends from dividends to the preference shares and take into account the run rate synergies offset tax from Hand Foods, you will see that we are seeing that we will be able to deliver at the end of the year profit after all dividends, excluding dividends to A and B shares of SEK 3.34 per share on 12 months rolling. Next slide, please. We are, as you know, long term reliable partner for municipalities throughout the Nordics. Just 2 weeks ago, we did our first deal in Denmark with the Danish municipality. And you see that still 9 of 10 of our crowns are coming either from government direct or indirect or Swedish rent regulated residential. Next Slide, please. Financial performance, EUR 596,000,000 in income in the quarter, strong increase comparing to the Q4 2018, continuing increase in net operating income, still very relatively very high yield. Give it 4.8%, I could sell all of the I could sell all of that probably at the value that is between 20% to 30% over this. €4,800,000,000 is not appropriate yield for this kind of debt. Property value, EUR 79,000,000,000, EUR 70,500,000,000 EUR 24,900,000,000 in EPRA, NAV and as I said before, very strong earnings capacity on thermal shoring. And we still continue to improve our credit metrics. Earnings per share for last quarter, after all dividends, SEK 1.51 per share. Next slide, please. Just two slides about the assets. As I said before, 94% of the portfolio is social infrastructure, 77% community service properties and 17% residentials, 6%, mainly our land bank. And I will come back to that. That is very important point, very strong portfolio of the building lights. And if you look at our presence in our 4 countries, you will see that 65% of our assets is in the largest regions and largest cities in the Nordic, with Stockholm on the top with 27% of total property value. Next slide, please. Just to dig or dive slightly deeper in the different parts of portfolio, social infrastructure or community service properties, which means elderly care, homes, schools, services, housing. We are largest player in the Nordics in these spaces. And municipal and governmental agencies, 77% of total value or SEK61.5 billion in Swedish krona. Rent regulated residential, 17% of total value. We own those assets only in Sweden because of the low rents and regulated And then finally, as I said, an And then finally, as I said, an amazing portfolio, and I will come back to comment that even more, amazing portfolio of building rights in best locations. You have a slide of City of Niescheting, where we own like quarter of City Cent, Aviso, on entrance to central station. So you can just get slower about how much upside potential there is. Next slide, please. What is the what is then in the long run the main driver behind our business? And those are 3 underlying megatrends that are shaping our business now and it will continue to shape in next 30 to 50 years. And the first one is, of course, demographic change combined with the organization that we see that our cities are growing. Stockholm and Oslo that are our largest cities are the most growing cities in Europe last 5 years. And on top of that, we see a force that is going to change the industry, that is also going to change financing and which is issue of sustainability. And we have been pioneer of working very hard with sustainability across the perspectives, both ecological, social and economic. And now we are also launching our sustainability vision 2,030, where we are promising to be 100% climate neutral, but also focusing in on different areas of social sustainability, both in our neighborhoods, but also within our space. For example, we will do investments in providing shelter for refugees, but at the same time, we will continue to invest mostly in our neighborhoods, among others, offering young kids summer jobs. And in that way, them to the labor market. And finally, concluding with an important goal for us that we are heading to BBB plus within short time and having, emphasizing our long term goal to be A- rated company. Next slide, please. So I have been talking about our bond like or I should say municipal bond like income from property management, which represent is, after all dividends, SEK 2.2 per share, which is giving you a sense about what kind of multipliers we are trading on. But on top of that, we have an amazing team working with property development that has been delivering last 10 years every year. And right now, we have, after the acquisition of Hemphusa, 1,800,000 square meters building rights. This is corresponding to 200000 to 24000 new residentials. So please compare that with, for example, GEM. GEM means something like 30,000 to 32,000. So on top of this municipal bond, we have like GEM in house. So just think about that. And please contact us, please email us, and we will be happy to provide you with more information on that. And we will be happy to provide you that those building rights are already this year going to deliver extra income from us. I think we right now are running 7 to 10 LFS buildings, few elderly care homes that are going on top of the profit from building rights also going to deliver recurring income. Next slide, please. To try to summarize. FBB is now the social infrastructure champion in the Nordics and being one of the largest player in Europe. And we are not going to stop here. We are a growth company. We see that this kind of social infrastructure is needed in the Nordics, and we see large opportunities to continue to grow our relationship with municipalities. And we also see that municipalities want us to help them to have long term player investing in social infrastructure. If you look at the bullets number 1, as I started with, which is, I should say, most amazing performance in this report is strong increase in 12 months lowering earnings capacity that is landing at SEK2.855 1,000,000, corresponding to an increase of 126% at ordinary A and B shares since the end of 2018. Next bullet showing that in the past 12 months, we have had one of the largest increase in NAV for the large real estate businesses have seen increasing NAV with SEK 16,100,000,000 corresponding to 73% of ordinary A and B shares. Net asset value, EPL NAV, was at the end of the year, 20.04 percent per ordinary A and B shares at the end of the 4th quarter. We also continued to deliver a strong profit. Profit before tax was SEK 3,100,000 and the profit after tax, SEK 2,600,000, which is, if we adjust for nonrecurring costs and adjust for dividend phase to dishes and hybrid bonds, we are delivering at the last line earnings for 2019 of DKK3.36 per ordinary A and B shares. Bullet number 3. We are continuing to build the cash flow machine. As I said, the municipal bond like increasing cash flow for the year with more than 200%. But on the top of this cash flow machine, we have this amazing performance, building a new company inside SVB that is very strong, doing very strong delivery on building rights. And we have today building rights of 1,800,000 square meters, which can be compared to or corresponds to 20000 to 24000 homes. And as I said before, and I'm going to repeat this next few weeks because I was stuck with this myself comparing this to GM having like 30,000 homes in their portfolio. Number 4, we are launching our sustainability Vision 10,030 today. We are very proud of this. We are also in the board have a committee that we will continue to focus with sustainability. And this committee is chairing by one of the most experienced people in 3 d Shield Estate. So I know a few ones on. This is, from our point of view, very important space. We are going to be leader in this, and we see us to be the leading company in the world delivering on sustainability. And we are presenting goals on every perspective, ecological, social and economic and emphasizing overall goals of to manage the company in accordance with UNION's Global Sustainability Goals 5, 7, 8, 11, 13 and 15, minimize the climate risk for our assets. That is the job that we are actively investing in being 100% climate neutral by 2,030. That is job that is fully in the way, but also regularly improve follow-up and report our sustainability efforts and making sure that company's code of conduct, which is based on the UN Global Compact, must be followed and understood by all employees and partners. Then two last bullets. The first one, of course, very important for us. We see that we already, by today, according to our measurement, as I'm writing in my CEO board, we are at 54%, at 54%. We are at 54%, according to S and P's measurement, debt through debt to equity, which should give us already today, BBB flat, but that is not our target. We are targeting to be BBB plus within short time, and that is important prerequisite for our continuing growth. And the board is emphasizing that in the long term, FBB is an A rating rated company. And finally, just to remind you, FTB has been delivering from the day 1. And last year, we communicated in CEO letter that we put 2019, 2021, see that our assessment is that we will be able to deliver the highest annual increase in net asset value among all Swedish listed property companies. And now we have the outcome for 2019, and it is amazing 73% increase per ordinary A and B shares. So we see the strong quarter. We see the strong market. We see the still undervalued assets in SLB. We see company, in company as regards to our huge land bank and huge player within building right space that is going to deliver the extra value to STB many, many years forward. Thank you very much for listening, and please questions. Thank you. Thank you. The first question is from Simon Mortensen from DNB Markets. Please go ahead. Your line is open. Hi, Leb, and congratulations with the solid results, it seems. I just have a few questions in terms of some technicalities to the report you just released. I will start off with the NAV. I'm just wondering how are you treating in reported NAV your goodwill, which is now on the balance sheet and the D shares, which is deducted about is it deducted on the issue price or on the market value? I can start with these shares. These shares are not included in NIV. So that is But how are they deducted? Is it on the issue price? Or is it on the market price? Because you can see in the report how They are they are deducted at the balance sheet value. Okay. And how are the how are you handling the goodwill in your reported NAV? The goodwill that is and this is important, euros 4,300,000,000 of the goodwill that is goodwill that is going to be there forever and it's related to extra cash delivered from the company is part of NIB, and it is the same as in all other businesses. So the goodwill is part of the reported NIVE, if I'm understanding you correctly? The goodwill is not the part of NAV's treatment. As I said, the total goodwill of EUR 6,700,000,000, the total goodwill is EUR 6,700,000,000. Of this €6,700,000,000 €4,300,000,000 that is going to stay there forever, each part of NIB. And that goodwill is going to be environment tested every time as it's for all other businesses. Thank you. To clarify that, the other one is on your earnings capacity guidance. How does that include the sale of 46 LSS Homes? And I've seen you buying some schools in Stockholm recently as well. How are they included in the Q4 earnings capacity guidance? There are no nothing of this is including. Our earnings capacity is strictly mathematical. That is what we have at the balance sheet at the end of the quarter that is included. So I should say that in that way, our earnings capacity is very conservative. Okay. And just a few other questions. We see in Swedish local media in real estate world that you have had some vacancies in a few properties, a police house in We have properties for SEK 80,000,000,000 and those some of those properties, I never comment properties 1 for 1 with respect to other companies. But our focus is not this kind of properties as we have been very very clear in our communication. So you can understand what, that message is. Yes. But my question was, if the Eskilstuna property and the for technical customer vacancies, are they part of what is sold to Nifusa? That was my question. I'm not going to comment at property level. But as I said before, that kind of office like is not SVB's core business. Okay. And can you give us a few details on what you have actually sold to Newfossa in terms of the assets and expected rent levels on those assets? I can I'm not going to comment the properties because we have not sold only to hemp food service. We are doing larger sales than that. And we have communicated that we are selling the total portfolio of over €11,000,000,000 on 15% over latest valuation. And I should say without any comments on the EFUSA, but SVB's perspective, the total value of sales and is affecting very marginally our earnings in 2020. And the main reason for this is that Hemphusa has had had relatively high financing costs. So we will give more the details when different companies that we have sold to announced that they have both from us. But in terms of the yield on those €11,000,000,000 which is sold, is it above or below the company's average? I'm not going to comment on that. My message is that the effect of sales is marginally affecting our honest capacity. And probably, if we recycle a part of it, probably our own capacity will increase. And the math is yield minus financing cost, and we will summarize that after the different companies that we have sold to announce that they have bought from us. And my last question is in terms of the share count which you used in the report. You have one element which you have in the listed share count, and you used a different number of B shares in the EPRA NAV calculations. Based on first of all, my question? Different counts of I didn't hear B shares or No, different number of A and B shares. You list A and B shares in the report as the end of the quarter at €839,000,000 while in the EPRA calculation, we do not do that. I will explain that. We do not do that. The total number of registered shares is the number of the shares that are used for EPRA and used for the ratios. And that numbers, you can find in our key ratio, and that is 1,240,000,000,526,005,187 shares. And that is the number of registered shares registered by Swedish company registration office. However, we didn't have the name of the shareholders because of distribution to because Europe clearly didn't have the name of the shareholders at the end of the year. So that is so that is, how to say, the information of the shareholders is just for illustrative purposes because that has not been possible technically because the Euroclear didn't have information. Who were the shareholders owing shares through selling or through acquiring shares through Krumfuzalpa. Okay. And then I assume then the 1,241,000,000 shares is the completely issued shares after the Hemfuslaufer settlement adjusted for what you bought in the direct end market? That was my last question on it. That is exact number of the shares that was by 30th December. Exactly. And can you say something about the D shares versus what you have in the report versus what is will be issued in total also there? As I said, these shares are of exactly 104,000,000,000, 425,000,000 €359,000,000 is the exact number of these shares that was issued by on the 30th December and also there, we didn't have the names, but the shares for the offer that was pronounced unconditional on 23rd of December were registered by last December. And those are also the assets used in the report. Thank you. Thank you for taking my questions, and congratulations on a solid result. Thank you. Next please. Next question is from Nicholas Hoglund from Nordea. Please go ahead. Your line is open. Yes, good morning. It's Josef Ferdinand, Nordea here. A couple of questions from my side. Firstly, if we start off with revaluations. Could you comment on this growth share of the sort of external and internal valuations in the end of the year and then maybe split the the valuations between SBB and HEMCOAS and possibly between segments, please? Just to be clear, in SPB profit, there is no revaluation from Hemphulsa. So that is important. So SPV profit is just revaluation of SDB. And And if you look at the segments, see that the and we provide the information we provide information on this at Page 9. And you will see that we have SEK1.2 billion in value changes on residential, so SEK 1,100,000,000 on community sales properties and SEK 122,000,000 on other properties. And if you look at our published results, then you will see that we have delivered profit from building rights on, for the year plus a level of SEK 338000000000. Okay. So it's only SEK 338000000 for the full year in building rights. And then also the sort of the external The parts of the building are all our properties are externally valued. And it has been 2019 every quarter because we have been in different processes and almost under auditing every day a year and publishing prospectus almost every month, I should say. So that is why all of the properties have been valued by external values. Because I think the building rights' important message there is that this is profit from the building rights, and there is additional profits from those building rights that are in delivering LSS and delivering other community service properties that will deliver the cash flow. And then looking at the sort of consolidated numbers on NAV and asset assets, Could you clarify if the evaluators have sort of taken into account the sort of the pending transactions? You're talking about 15% above book values for the 11,000,000,000 properties that are pending to be sold. Have those value Our numbers are the numbers that are and the profit is, as I said, the SPV profit. And that is what it was at the end of the year. I said this morning, and I will repeat that our assets should not be valued at 4.8%, and you can never buy our assets assets at 4.8%. So that may give you flavor what will happen going forward. But Ilja, I mean the 4.8% implied yield at the moment, that's including actually including Hemophos as part of the consolidated numbers, right? I mean, it used to be 4% or That is including Hemfos as a part of consolidated numbers. And I'm saying that on top of those numbers, there is still large potential. And we have to follow-up to see that. But that is my sense of where the market is right now. Right. But just to be clear that we don't sort of double count the sort of upside here In the SEK 80,000,000,000 plus property value, have the valuators taken the conditional divestments of the €11,000,000,000 revaluation into account? Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. That is absolutely right. But that is also, Niklas, affecting that is also affecting 4.8% in yield. Exactly. Yes. And I hear you. Just wanted to sort of because I was sort of expecting that in the Q1. So but okay, fair enough. And then going over to the goodwill. I mean, you were clear now that you have sort of allocated goodwill there. I'd like to say that important point to coming back to this sales, that those sales are not affecting SPB's profit. Those sales are affecting SPB's value of the buy of the acquired company. So that is important. When SPB is reporting according to, as I summarized before, for the full year, SEK 2 point 4,000,000,000 in increased value based on the crown that are coming from HURPHUSA. So we're not there either. Okay. And then moving over to goodwill. You were clear now that you have allocated the goodwill to synergies from lower funding and administration And as the part of the SEK 4,300,000,000 of the goodwill. SEK 4,300,000,000 SEK 2,400,000,000 of the goodwill is deferred tax goodwill. And that will be, of course, that will be resolved when we sell the assets. So what will be the sort of impairment criteria here to sort of evaluate this €4,200,000,000 plus going forward? Is it related then to your underlying funding costs? Or is it also to the success in this sort of reducing central and admin costs? So how should we evaluate this for the group? Yes. It is related to our performance on delivering on our underlying financing costs, yes. Okay. And we should not sort of expect you to allocate part of the goodwill then to asset values? This goodwill is treated in the way as goodwill is treated for the other companies. And that means that we will be there forever until we do something. And that means that it should be tested for what is the value that is delivered through. Okay. And then moving over to your vision, the sustainability vision 2030. Do you have an an understanding what will be the sort of the investment and return requirements here? What's the sort of what's the potential? Our sustainability vision is, as I said, underlying our main part of our business model. So this is not for us something that we are adding in to get some short term profit in something. This is we'll be working with sustainability. And as you know, we became the first ever private member of Swedish Association of Public Housing. And we are with the vision, emphasizing our commitment to deliver on those targets. And that is the main message. Do you see sort of a potential for even lower funding costs here? We are the 0.4 Sverdrup. I have said this before, Niklas. And in my sense that in 5 to 10 years from now, it's not going to be issued. The lower funding costs are going to be issued if you are not green, if you are not sustainable, you will not get any funding. So this is we are Laurie's company, and we have and we see sustainability as a natural part of our business. So this is we are not seeing this as delivering a few basic points in funding points, we see that this is going to be big crossroad between those that we will succeed and those that we'll not. Right. And my final question related to maybe if you have a could help us here to understand the sort of underlying maintenance and CapEx guidance for the year? What should we expect in investments? As we used to say, we don't have any CapEx. All of our maintenance is taking into account in on its capacity. And this is, particularly for our international business, an important message when you compare with, for example, German companies. So we took we take the maintenance through the P and L. And on top of that, we are counting to do like €600,000,000 in investments and €600,000,000 700,000,000 in investments and deliver and double the money on those. That is how we see. Okay. And then maybe a final question, if I may. When you look at your impressive building rights portfolio, could you help us out as sort of triggers here to get higher values out of it? We previously talked about a substantial potential here related to market devaluations and planning permits coming into effect. What would you Yes. Because this is very important. I like that question because I see it as very important. And I think no one is valuing GM on what the building rights are valued. And as I said, we have right now 1,800,000 square meter, which is like 200,000 to 34,000 homes. And the GM has 30,000 homes. So we see this like a company within our company. So we will as we see this year that these bidding rights are not only delivering profits on the bidding rights, they are also delivering new LHS housing where we have amazing margins. They are delivering new elderly care homes at the end of this year and beginning of next year. So this we see that this is going to be a strong driver of the growth going forward. I hear you, Ilya. But previously, you've been also very successful in divesting the building rights, especially on the rest of the newbuild side at substantially higher value. And the triggers have been then related to planning processes and zoning being granted. Should we expect those kind of triggers to be more tilted towards 2021, 2022? Or should we see any potential for that to be trading already in see already this year strong cash inflow from the sold building rates. But I think even more importantly is that we have undervalued building rights that we have great potential from those selling parts of those, but we are we have even greater potential converting some of those to new LSS housing and elderly care homes. And that is what we're seeing now that we will be able to start the lever already in 2020. Next question is from Louis Landeman from Danske Bank. It's Louis here. I just had a question on the cash on your balance sheet because I'm trying to understand because this you said that you paid the cash portion of the bid in early January. And that's reported on the so it's on the other returns liabilities. It's actually not part of the cash position. So it's more like on the short term. Louis, that is our we had a cash position of €14,000,000,000 and probably, I think, €14,500,000,000 And then we had on this cost, as you said, €7,900,000,000 that is used for cash position to have full sell. That is why we, in our earnings capacity, are, you can find the exact number there, that we are saying that this difference of SEK 6,000,000,000 is our real cash position or value our real cash position. SEK6 billion, okay. So out of the SEK13 billion in cash reported, you say SEK 6,000,000,000 would be the left, let's say, after the payment plan? Yes. I should say, if you look at our cash position, that is 14.5 because we have some we are putting some of this money in some short bonds because the banks don't like to have money on the balance sheet. So we need to hide some of the money. But if you look at our real cash position, it's EUR 14.5000000000, EUR 14.6000000000, then the HELFOSA is €7970, and that means that €6 SEK6.5 billion in cash is the real cash that we had at the end of the year. Okay. But in addition to the SEK 7,900,000,000 then you bought shares in the market. So we should extract that as well then, like another SEK 2,000,000,000 or SEK 3,000,000,000 or something? First, both in the markets were paid. As you know, when you Okay. It was already paid at year end. So perhaps to buy the remaining to get 100%, it would be another SEK 1,000,000,000 maybe then. To buy at the At the end of the just there are 2 steps in this. 1 is about 88% that we had, of the year, and this has been both by the issued shares that are registered on last December and by the cash, as I explained. After that, about additional 5% that has been paid after the year end and that is not fixed in the in any numbers and because that is after the year end. And we had 93.8 percent or 93.5 percent of the capital after that. And that means that the remaining 7% is like SEK1.5 billion, something like that. And that is in the process. Okay. Okay. Okay. I understand. And then following that, since you say you have repaid bank debt, so that's with the part of the remaining cash done that has been used to repay bank debt and some press proceeds from hybrid bond issue or something like that there? Yes. We issued a large bond, 7.5 years, euros 750,000,000,000 at 1% fixed interest rates coupon that we have been using that money and to repay the bank loans. And we will continue with that. We see the bank loans that Hemphusa had as a because Hemphusa had very short maturity debt or very short debt maturity that we don't like. All right. And after this sale that you're planning of the SEK 11,000,000,000, so your view is that after that, you're in sort of compliance with these numbers you mentioned from S and P. But do you foresee any more sales in the pipeline or? Yes. We will continue both to buy and to sell. That is what we do on the top municipal bond. But according to our numbers, taking into account pro form a sales down, we were at 54% according to S and P's calculation. Next question is from Jan Yefel from Kepler Cheuvreux. Please go ahead. Your line is open. Okay. Thanks for taking my question. And my first question relates to your reported LTV of 41%, and I don't see how you come to that figure. Of course, you have the interest bearing debt and then you deduct the cash pile and then you divide it with total assets. The orange? All of that technical, Matt. We I will ask Evelofdad to send an e mail to you. It's very easy. In our view, it's net LTV through the total balance sheet, and that is the same way as, for example, Baader reports. But I will ask Kevan Lotta to just send you the table. Okay. Thanks. And second question relates to your interest your average interest rate, which is 1.7 percent at the end of December. And you also mentioned that it was should have been 1.4% for SPB isolated. And do you think it could come down to 1.4% or something like in that range this year? Yes. I've been very clear on this, Jan, before. I mean, this is we are going to be below 1.4 at the end of year because that is why we have been repaying this highly priced debt in a handful size. So that is I'll say, that's no question about that. That is the way forward. Okay. And just to this is my last question really. Just to clarify, you have an earnings capacity of DKK2.7 billion, you mentioned in the presentation slides here, sorry, SEK2.3 per share. And on that, did you mention that this will not be affected, this SEK2.3 billion by the divestment of the SEK8 billion in assets? Yes. As I said, Jan, if I look at 2020 in total, this the sales will just marginally affect this because both of our sales, but also because of the at the same time that we are continuing to repay highly priced debt. So the difference is very marginal, and the profit that we will create on the way down the road until end of the year will probably match that at least match that. Next question is from Tobias Kai from ABG. Please go ahead. Your line is open. Yes. Thank you and good morning. It's a bit of a follow-up question maybe on the average interest rates. I mean, it was almost 1.8% at year end. And if we include the synergies of SEK 260,000,000 that you talked about, it comes down to 1.4%. However, you recently issued plus 7 years at 1%. So why is the average interest rate so much higher in your earnings capacity than the actual funding cost in new issues? Is it higher in banks than in the bond market? Is that the reason? No. I agree to be that this is because we do this very mathematically because we are very conservative in this. So we do we use the numbers that were on the 31st December. And our financing costs are going to decrease much more than all the synergies from Hemphuls side. You are pointing exactly right. So I agree that And the issue that you recently made at the 1% total interest rate, if you would have had the BBB plus rating, at that point, could you indicate what the rate would have been then, would have been similar or lower? It will be 0.6, 0.65. Okay. And the final question. I mean with the cash that you have and also with the cash that you will receive, if you make the SEK 11,000,000,000 disposals, will you use that to amortize on bank loans or also bond loans? We are amortizing bank loans. So that is the main strategy. And we are also buying back €500,000,000 of Hemphusa, 1 of Hemphusa's bonds. So that will be closed out at the end of the March, and that will also continue to contribute to decrease the financing costs. Next question is from Werten Nielsen from Carlsquare. Just before asking your questions, this will be the last one that we will be able to take because we have an extraordinary general meeting in Hampfussa starting now in 5 minutes. So if there are any other people in line wanting to ask questions, please send us an e mail at irsbdnorden. Se, and we will get back to you during the day. Okay? Go ahead. Okay. Just a more follow-up on the building rights. If you compare the GEM, I assume when you see the Q3 numbers on earning capacity in Q4, that the difference is mainly the Hambusa Petroleum. And I interpreted that you identify more on investment in Helpersheim than building rights in that portfolio. Is that right? Or have you made any sense? That is right. We identified the 700,000 square meters per headquarter portfolio. And we see that there is still potential on that. Thank you very much, all, and thank you very much for listening. And as Adrian said before, please just send us an e mail, and we will respond as soon as possible. And this now concludes the