Hi, good evening, everyone, and thank you for joining us today for Wistron's fourth quarter result webcast. Wistron is the world's third-largest notebook ODM with a 20% notebook market share globally, and a very strong server business that caters to both enterprise and cloud customers. My name is Howard Kao, and I'm the coverage Analyst here at Morgan Stanley. We are very honored to have Mr. Simon Lin, Chairman of Wistron, Mr. Jeff Lin, CEO, and Mr. Stone Shih, CFO of Wistron, here with us today. We look forward to their insights and comments on the company as well as the market. Wistron's management team will walk us through their fourth-quarter results and also provide some forward-looking commentary, after that, we will open it up to questions. At any time during the webcast, you can send in your questions into the text box on your screen.
With that, I would now like to turn it over to Wistron's management team for their prepared remarks. Thank you, and please go ahead.
Okay. Thank you, Howard, and good evening, everybody. I'm Simon Lin. I would like to give you a very brief update about our Q4 and the whole year of 2022. I believe that you already received our report that the whole year we reached TWD 984 billion revenue. Compared to a year ago, we have roughly 14% growth. Our net profit after tax is TWD 11.1 billion, representing TWD 4.01 EPS, which is about roughly 7% growth compared to a year ago. In the last year, we have pretty much increased our gross margin, also increased our net margin a little bit due to our product mix. Our growth of roughly more than TWD 12 billion growth contributed by one of our subsidiaries, Wiwynn, as well as our main operation, core business inside of Wistron.
Certainly, in the whole 2022, one of the very key so-called changes in our financial statement is we continuously reduce our inventory from early of the year, very close to TWD 20 billion, down to [audio distortion] In the mid of the year, very close to TWD 200 billion, down to only about TWD 156 billion, which greatly change our financial statement, become more healthy. Certainly, our operation continued to generate cash in, so therefore, we are able to sustain our growth. Simultaneously, we also decide to distribute TWD 2.6 cash dividend, which represented more than 60% our payout ratio. That refer to our long-term policy. We continuously pay higher % to our shareholders. As a result, if you compare to the last 10 years, in average, every year, I believe that our shareholder will receive more than TWD 2 cash dividend over the last 10 years.
We continue to maintain our, I would say, stable dividend policy. The payout ratio is normally higher than 60%. Only in 2021, we paid slightly lower than 60%. Roughly, we maintain more than 60%. Particularly, we are able to maintain very high cash yield rate. Compared to today's closing, I believe that we are very close to 7.8% or to 8% of cash yield, which representing pretty much our commitment to our shareholders, particularly long-term shareholders. For the coming year, we will continue to have our CapEx. Basically, this year's CapEx is roughly TWD 12.6 billion. Compared to a year ago, we're slightly down, and we continue to have enough cash to back up our CapEx in order that we can maintain steady growth. For the year 2023, we believe that the macroeconomics still maintain quite tricky.
We continue to see some of the so-called financial situation very difficult to predict. Particularly, the overall global financial situation. As recent, we know that SVB really becoming some sort of surprise that basically we are happy to see the U.S. government, FDIC, decide to step in. We know that there are so many staff in Silicon Valley heavily impacted by SVB. We don't expect that this would happen in near future, but there is always some sort of surprise. That is one part. The other part is, as the Q1, Q2 this year, we don't see PC growth. We still believe that PC will continue to weak in the first half. I believe that this portion for the whole year, the industry outlook, later on I will have Jeff Lin to give you more detailed report.
For the past 2022, we maintain a steady operation efficiency, continuing to generate higher gross margin due to better product mix, and continue to deliver better financial results in order we can have sustainable growth as well as we can healthily pay back to our shareholders. In the meantime, we also maintain very successful initiative and activities over all the ESG so-called coverage. We continue to have a lot of rewards from global institutes, and we believe that this is also one of the very important future that we should not forget. We'll continue to put more resources to become a so-called benchmark for all the ESG requirement. To 2023, even we don't think that there will be a very high potential growth, but we still maintain. I would say that we forecast there will have slightly growth in terms of overall our top line for 2023.
Due to the first half is not in a so-called better picture. We intend to believe that the second half should be better due to there are a lot of new creativities, new innovations such as ChatGPT, will continue to drive. We hope that they will continue to drive more devices, more server storage at the back end, as well as they will drive more applications and more startup. Even we have dark side from macroeconomic, we have some bright side for the technologies. There's a reason we still believe that 2023, we are able to keep some sort of healthy growth. This is a very simple and quick update for our 2022. Q1 is included. If you don't mind, I will have Jeff to give you some industry update for last year and also this year, particular from the PC and server area.
This is Jeff Lin from Wistron. Follow by Simon, I will give you some update about the industrial trend. We look at this year, 2023, we think the PC still will be pretty tough. Based on all the numbers we see for notebook side, we think this year compared with last year, probably will be single-digit negative growth compared with last year. Next are also probably flat to single-digit negative growth. For server side, we think it's better. Overall for the enterprise side, probably will have a slight decline. For the data center, we believe still have some growth. Overall, we think server side will have a better outlook in this year compared with notebook and desktop. Of course, another portion for Wistron side is, we call AI compute. It is including GPU server and GPU accelerator card with data center.
For that portion, we believe this year will continue to grow because there's more and more AI calculation needed requirement for this kind of the product. This is overall, basically the industrial trend we see for this year. I think, any question?
Great. Thank you, Simon and Jeff, for your comprehensive comments. Again, as a reminder, for those of you who have questions, please type your questions into the text box on your screen. While we wait for more questions to come in, maybe just two from me to start with. Just looking back at Q4 numbers, can you give us some color? Margins expanded quite a bit on a sequential basis, both gross margin and operating profit margins. Any color you can provide to us as to what drove this significant margin expansion in Q4?
I think the major reason is because of the product mix. Actually, many people At the beginning, when you introduced Wistron, you said Wistron is the number three notebook ODM supplier in the world. Actually, a lot of people think Wistron is the major of this. Notebook is our major business. Actually, right now, not only notebook, plus desktop together, the revenue already less than 50% of Wistron's revenue. I think we have other business, other product. The profit margin, of course, is higher than PC. For that product mix, especially last Q4, we have some growth on that portion. That's the reason why drive our Q4 margin is better than before.
I see. Thank you. Just to clarify, in terms of the outlook by different segments that you provided earlier, Jeff, notebook, desktop server, was this from a volume perspective, or was this from a revenues perspective?
It's from volume point of view. From revenue point of view, I think also another thing is Wistron, we also try to, how can I say? We try to change our product direction from low-end consumer segment to high-end consumer, even commercial segment PC. For the revenue point of view, I think we still have a chance, probably can maintain from this year compared to last year. Even though the volume probably will be a little bit lower, but revenue-wise, we have a chance to maintain.
I see. Got it. Thank you. Can we just ask a little bit about the near-term outlook, especially for notebook? What are you guys expecting for Q1 and Q2?
Q1, I would say, is the worst quarter after the COVID-19 until now. Q1, the notebook is really low. I believe this year, quarter-over-quarter, Q2, Q3, Q4 will continue growth. Of course, the biggest question is how much growth. That's the reason why I say right now, many people, when I talk to industrial partner, and we all think this year notebook should be around flat to a single-digit decline. We all hope if the second half can grow more, probably the notebook will be better. If second half cannot grow more, then the notebook will have a single-digit decline. We still believe the second half will be better than the first half, and Q2 and Q4 will be better than Q3. This is what we believe.
I see. Sorry, allow me to ask one last question before we go to the question queue. I think right now there are a lot of consensus expectation, particularly from third-party research institutes that are expecting a double-digit year-on-year decline for the notebook TAM this year. How would you guys reconcile that versus what you guys are seeing in terms of flat to single digit down year-on-year?
Okay. I think, base case is flat, single-digit down this year compared to last year is mostly I talked to many industrial partner. Probably some analysts think we'll have a double-digit decline. When I talk to most of the industrial partner, we still think the decline should be within single digits.
I see. Perfect. Okay. Maybe we can move on to the first question here. The first question is on your enterprise server, and what is the outlook for this year? I think you guys mentioned that it was down, but any color on magnitude?
I think the enterprise server, the volume went down. Again, it's low single-digit decline. The data center side, we think will have a chance to increase. The overall server volume should have a chance to have some growth. This is what we see.
I see. Okay. Thank you. The second question is on your GPU server. Who are your customers? What do you supply in the GPU server space, and what is your competitive edge?
Okay. Wistron, we started to do the GPU server starting from five years ago. I remember 2017, when I took over the enterprise business in Wistron, when we start to engage one of the largest GPU company in the world. Sorry, we don't specific name our customers in this kind of the, how can I say, the interview. Anyway, we started engage with that customer since 2017 until now, and I think we are really earlier than all our competition invest on the GPU server, this technology. That's the reason why we think we have an advantage on this technology.
Got it. Okay. Thank you. The next question says, given higher interest rate environment, what is your strategy for balance sheet management? Wistron has meaningful debt on the balance sheet now. The second part of that question is: what's the outlook for your networking business and server GPU business?
Okay, for the first part, I think inventory still will be the major focus. We still try our best to talk to our supplier, our customer, to improve our management on the inventory. That will be our focus, especially in this year. Okay.
Okay.
For the networking, okay, we start to build our networking team starting from two years ago, and we have a very strong networking engineering team right now. Actually, last year, we already got a business award from one of the largest networking company in the world. That ODM project is including design manufacturing, not only manufacturing. Second half this year, we'll start mass production, our first switch product for that customer. We really have confidence we will grow on this segment, on the networking business segment. Yes.
I see. Just follow up on that. Can you share with us what speed this first switch product is?
Sorry. Okay. We don't discuss the specific detail of the one product, sorry.
No problems. Thank you. Had to try.
This is customer confidential. Okay.
Yeah, no worries. Okay. The next question here is saying, "Media has highlighted that Wistron may dispose your smartphone business in India." I guess, what is your strategy here or going forward for your smartphone business?
Again, we don't specifically talk about any specific customer or any specific business, so sorry. Okay. The only thing I can say is all the business is under our strategy, under our direction.
I see. Okay. There's a question here that is asking for more explanation about GPU servers and GPU accelerators.
You want me to explain more about GPU server and GPU accelerator?
Yeah. If that's possible. Thank you.
Oh, yeah. Sure. The GPU server, of course, I already mentioned, we're starting from 2017 with one customer and one partner, and then right now we do more also for others. Mostly the GPU server is, through that customer, is all go to the data center for data center use. Also, we work with all the top three GPU company in the world already. We supporting them on the GPU accelerator card. We really think for GPU portion, we think we are ahead of our competition, especially on the GPU portion for data center usage. That's another reason why when Simon mentioned about we see more and more AI usage, especially the ChatGPT.
We think for GPU portion, Wistron have a good growth in the next several years. We believe so.
Thank you. Jeff, for someone like me who doesn't understand this very well, can you just maybe explain it a little bit further? Who uses GPU servers and who uses GPU accelerators? What are the different applications that the customer.. How do they decide to buy, whether GPU servers or GPU accelerators?
Let me say this way. For the data center, in the data center, because there's more and more AI calculations, they need more GPU. Easy way is they just buy GPU accelerator card, put on their server today, their traditional server. This is an add-on card concept. Some customer, they even just buy the GPU server because the GPU server, the calculation speed, of course, is higher, quicker than the GPU accelerator card put on the traditional server. We see the data center customer, they buy both. They buy some GPU accelerator card put in their traditional server. They also buy some GPU servers just put into their data center to increase their calculation, the speed. That's why we see these two product is continue grow right now.
I see. Just from a margins perspective, which one do you think is higher margin, GPU server or GPU accelerator?
GPU server, of course, the price is higher. Let me say, the price is much higher than GPU accelerator card, because one GPU accelerator card is one GPU. In the GPU server, probably there are eight GPU there. How can I say? Margin rate is a little bit different, but both are much higher than the traditional server. Of course, much higher than PC. This is what I can say.
I see. Even for a GPU server with eight GPUs, super high ASP, the margin rate is still higher than a traditional server. Is that understanding correct?
Yes. From our view, the GPU server margin rate is higher than the traditional server. Okay, let me say this way, because I think not many company can do GPU server today, and Wistron is one of few.
Good. I see. Got it. Thank you. May I ask, I think before, the way you guys differentiated between Wistron and Wiwynn was split by customer segment, where Wiwynn focused more on data center customers and Wistron focused more on enterprise customers. A couple weeks ago, Wiwynn also talked about GPU servers. How do you guys determine who does what for what customers going forward?
Wiwynn, Wistron cooperate together on this segment. Of course, data center customer, they can buy from Wiwynn directly, or they can buy from Wistron's customer. For this segment, there's no conflict. We still cooperate together.
Okay, I see. Thank you. We have a question here on margin. Margin improved meaningfully, driven by product mix. Do you have a margin target for the next two to three-year timeframe?
Well, margin increase is always our primary so-called efforts in order we can reach a certain level. As a matter of fact, we don't expect that we are going to stay low margin for a long time. From the report that Jeff Lin just mentioned, our core PC business certainly representing more than 50% of our revenue right now. We have other high margin product, including IPC, server GPU, services, a new segment of the handheld devices, which is not the traditional so-called smartphone, as well as a certain portion of the industry product that we deliver to our industry partners. With these sections, if we put together, we are able to reach very close to TWD 200 billion revenue in this high margin area.
We hope that in the next coming years, this will be our growth engine, that we probably will still maintain a certain competition on the PC area, but we'll put more efforts and resources to increase this portion of our business. That's the way we drive our business to become a higher margin company. Well, we're going to see this year, we see some first result. Last year, we already have some achievement. As you can see, second half of last year, the PC business was not good. At the end of the year, we still deliver pretty much better than the previous year financial result. This year, we will again, we'll put more resources.
I think that we're going to see some more result second half of this year, and I hope that we're going to give you more better so-called financial result at the end of the year and to see our efforts.
I see. Thank you, Simon. Maybe just another way to maybe pose this question is, do you think the fourth quarter of last year in terms of margin profile, either from a gross margin or operating profit margin perspective, would that be a new benchmark for how we look at Wistron going forward? Or do you think there was some one-off impact that need to account for?
Well, that is certainly one of our target. We cannot guarantee every quarter we will maintain the same margin rate. That is the target we are shooting for in the short near term. For longer term, well, certainly we hope that we can continue to enhance that. That's just for your reference.
I see. Thank you. The next question here is about revenue and the distribution of revenue between the first half and the second half, and any guidance on that. Also, in terms of notebook shipments specifically, any color on the distribution between the first half and the second half of the year.
The revenue, of course, we'll see every quarter will continue growth. I think probably like a 40%-60%, I think first half, second half. Yeah, 40%-60%, the first half and second half for the revenue point of view. For notebook, also we believe this year, every quarter will continue growth. The volume point of view. Again, I think probably also it's like a 40%-60%. Again, let me just emphasize again. When I say notebook this year can be flat compared to last year, it's the best case. I believe it will be single digit decline, but we all hope the second half, if notebook can grow, how can I say this? Because if the channel inventory can reduce to the normal situation in Q2, then we really hope Q3 and Q4 the notebook can grow more.
This is we hope, but I think at the end, still single-digit decline this year. This is what we get. If you look at the financial statement, you will observe that last year, basically the notebook first half still higher than second half. This year, we believe that the first half was much, much lower than second half. In terms of the total revenue, last year, our distribution were, in the total company point of view, about 45%-55%. This year will be roughly 40%-60%. Which means that we should see a lot more momentum and changes on the distribution of the revenue first half and second half.
Sorry about that. Thank you. Maybe we have to come back to the GPU server and accelerator space. It seems like there's a lot of interesting questions here. First is, do you see any rush orders from ChatGPT related demand on the server side? Do you expect to see any in the second half of this year?
Okay. We have not seen the focus number adjust because of ChatGPT yet, but we already heard from the customer, they already see some, how can I say, influence because of ChatGPT and from their front-end sales side. We foresee the focus probably will have some adjust in the near future because of the AI usage. Well, how about this very interesting question. I would like to add some comment on that. You probably heard, from the report, that OpenAI use more than 25,000 GPU for the current stage. We all know that today, if you try to log into the ChatGPT application, somehow you'll see that there will be some lagging or sometimes it will be not there because they cannot handle so heavy traffic, which means that at the back end, there are a lot of efforts they need to continue to improve.
There are so tons of data will flow into this mega data center. I believe that this is one of the drivers, but this is from the so-called the back-end side. The front-end side, I believe that more and more people use the ChatGPT plus some of the application on top of that, or plus some of the combined services, that they will have more startup. They are going to use this as a platform to have their new business. Simultaneously, they will have more users. In that particular regard, we have a strong belief that they will have more and more requirement in terms of devices, in terms of the connectivities, and also in terms of the back end. We don't know yet about the specific spec for each area. I believe that they will continue to be all IT and communication related technologies.
Thank you, Simon. Just to follow up on that, I think maybe just there are still a lot of uncertainties, but from your perspective, do you think the addressable market for Wistron is bigger for servers at the back end or servers at the front end, at the edge, where you are?
The edge side we are now developing, continuing to co-work with our main customers. We haven't seen the edge side will increase a lot. I see some signals that actually, we talked to some of our customers last year, and they already understand that the edge side of demand will increase as soon as the application become more and more prominent. Maybe Jeff can give you some other information.
Just as Simon said, yeah, we see some, okay, there's some opportunity on there. We already see that. Yes.
Okay, perfect. Thank you. Just coming back to these GPU servers, there's a question here. I'm asking about your revenue mix from GPU servers and GPU accelerators.
I don't have the number. Let me see. TWD 150 billion.
TWD 15 billion.
TWD 115 billion. No.
TWD 15 billion.
Oh, yeah. TWD 15 billion. Sorry, TWD 15 billion. Sorry. Yeah. Sorry, I need to check our finance people right now.
TWD 15 billion, roughly in that range. Yeah.
TWD 15 billion. This was for full year 2022?
Yes.
Okay. About 1.5% of total revenue.
Yep.
I see. I suspect that the contribution from a profit perspective should be much higher.
Yes.
Yes, for sure.
For sure.
For sure. Yeah. I think that goes to the next question, which I think a lot of investors have, is are you able to provide color around what kind of gross margin or operating profit margin these GPU servers, and accelerators are currently seeing? Maybe a range or any color around this.
Okay. I think just two double digits. Yeah.
The operating profit margin?
The gross margin.
Gross margin. Okay.
Double digits.
For both GPU servers and GPU accelerators?
Yes.
Got it. Thank you. To follow on to that, there's a question here, asking what is the entry barrier to making these GPU servers, and why is it that seems like other competitors are not doing it as much as Wistron is?
The GPU company, they are all, how can I say, they are not a system company. When they start working with Wistron, because we are a system company, we have many, many years server experience. Actually that's not a contract manufacturing business. We will call ODM business. Wistron did the design for them to make the whole system. They provide GPU, and then we do the design. Also not only design also for the manufacturing, how can I say, operation also for the testing. We actually develop our own unique testing way to do the GPU server testing in the manufacturing process. We believe for those technologies, and it's not easy to duplicate by our competition very quick.
Probably we will say that there are 30%-40% contributed by the research and R&D teams, and the rest of the 60%-70% contributed by the manufacturing capabilities. That is pretty much not a simple factor.
I see. Got it. From a market share perspective, how would you look at your market share in the GPU server and GPU accelerator space versus your existing competitors?
There is no really market number like a Gartner or IDC for this segment, but we believe we definitely is one of the top three in the world for the data center usage, GPU server, and GPU accelerator card.
I see. Got it. Thank you.
Maybe you can tell us. The Total Addressable Market. We don't know. We have some number, but maybe not accurate.
Yeah.
Yeah. Okay.
Let me say this, we are working with the top three GPU company in the world already. All those top three are our partners. I think we should be one of the top three in the world.
I see. I'm sure your number is probably a lot more accurate than whatever we have or we will have. Just to follow up on that is, from a customer's perspective, how do you think your customer chooses between buying a GPU server that is equipped with Intel, AMD or NVIDIA? Is there a difference?
Because those are all my customers, actually it's very difficult for me to have any comment on this. Sorry about it.
Well, this 100% due to customer choice.
Yeah.
Really our end customer, they choose either way or they can choose one or two or three.
Yeah.
Somehow we see some customer, they choose both because they also want to mitigate some of their risk.
Yeah. Got it. Okay. Thank you. You guys guided for growth for this space this year, and probably for next year as well. But any color on the magnitude? Are we expecting strong double-digit, triple-digit? Any color on this?
Sorry, can you repeat your question again? You mean what?
For your GPU server and accelerator business. You mentioned it was TWD 15 billion revenue last year. Earlier in the call, you guys said this is a segment that will continue to grow this year. Just wondering if there's a more concrete guidance range, whether it's going to be 20% or 100% or any color would be appreciated.
Okay. Right now the number we see will still grow this year, but how many %s? Just like the previous question you asked, because recently the ChatGPT and AI usage is more. We also heard from our customer probably their focus will upside soon. Very difficult for me to give you a number right now. We believe we'll continue to grow on this segment.
Okay. Got it. Maybe just coming back to PC. There's a question here about inventory. The question is, how do you see PC inventories at this moment, including both transit inventory as well as distributor inventory, and when do you think these inventories will normalize?
Right now, the overall inventory we see today is still higher than before COVID. We foresee Q2 should have a chance to down to just the level similar to before COVID. That's the reason why we hope by Q2, the inventory down to the normal level, and we hope Q3 and Q4, the growth will be more for the PC segment. This is what we see. Of course, the window originally much lower than before. It's continued lower. This is the reason why we foresee the Q2 will down to the normal.
Okay. There's a question here on your automotive business. The question is, can you provide some updates on your exposure to automotive electronics? How do you see growth going forward?
Yeah. We are in automotive business already for a while. We have two segments. One is we do some infotainment system for some automotive company already. Also, I think last year we acquired Kaohsiung Opto-Electronics Inc., we call KOE. Guys do the panel LCM business for also automotive customers. Both segments, we see continued growth in this year and next year, we will see continued growth. Of course, also not only for the current customer, we also recently have talked to many new customer, and I think we have some good opportunity will continue to grow on this Automotive segment.
Can you share with us what, in terms of revenue mix, how much is automotive at the moment?
Automotive. Let me.
Yeah. Maybe I can cut in here. Our automotive, including the, we call it central control unit, which we mainly deliver inside of China to some of the Chinese customers, as well as a very small portion of the overseas customers. Plus, just mentioned that we acquired panel companies from Japan Display Inc. in their Kaohsiung factory, that we did it about 13 months, almost two years. If we put these two together, our business in this automotive sector will also reach TWD 15 billion already. We are healthily profitable in this area. This is not our end goal. This is just some sort of, we call it module business. Okay. Our automotives, we don't expect we're going to spend some sort of TWD 20 billion, TWD 30 billion in order to boost this business. We continue to do this healthy investment.
If you look at our acquire KOE, which is roughly only 1 billion TWD to acquire the KOE. We also invest in China for the so-called central control unit with probably less than TWD 300 million-TWD 400 million. With these two investments, we already see the first result. We believe that we continue to invest other area, like from the upstream design side, that we have some cooperation with the European design house, as well as we are also looking for some partner in Taiwan for the EV bus industry. These are all the sector that we invest in the EV side. For EV, probably will become our next move, but we are practically cut into this business from the area that we are strong. We are able to make the so-called reasonable income in the first couple years.
We will continue to reinvest through such kind of result. I probably would say that our EV business, 2022 was the first year that I can regard as our EV era as a whole. I think that it takes another five, six years to see the big one. Certainly in my view, if our total EV business reach TWD 100 billion, they will reach the certain size that I think that we expect that maybe within the next decade, we should be able to achieve that.
I see. Thank you. From a profits standpoint, do you think automotive electronics is more profitable than GPU servers or GPU accelerators?
Well, you make a very smart move. I want not to say in the apple-to-apple comparison, but it's enhancing.
Okay. Got it. Thank you. There's a question here, in terms of your earlier target. The question is, TWD 100 billion sales from higher margin products is your target in the future. What is the revenue from this segment, in 2022? When can we expect this target to be reached? Would it be 2025 or would it be 2024?
Sorry, I didn't catch your question. You said TWD 100 billion high margin business?
Yes. I think earlier in the call you mentioned that you guys have a target to grow your high margin business, or products with high margins to reach TWD 100 billion, sales.
No, no.
I guess the question is.
Right now it's already TWD 200 billion already. Last year already reached TWD 200 billion.
Oh, I see. Okay.
Which including services, IPC, EV, electronics, professional display. We have some high-end display. We also have some, we call it high-end mobile devices. Very interested in IoT, which you probably don't know, and GPU servers and so on and so forth. We combine all those together. For instance, our service business already more than three I think that we're going to break the TWD 30 billion mark this year. Last year we are very close to TWD 238 billion for these services. This is a strong position that we have. We have more than 3,000 employee on our service business globally, and the margin is double-digit as well, gross margin. That is something that behind the scene that we don't want to expose, but actually we are building such kind of capability from the area I just mentioned.
Many areas we put together, this project is TWD 15 billion, this project is TWD 20 billion, this project is TWD 30 billion, when we put all together, it already reached TWD 200 billion last year. We expect that it will continue to grow in the next coming years. That's the reason I said that we continue to drive for higher margin business, which is we can have more, we will add on value to our customers instead of just competing with price.
Got it. Thank you for that comprehensive answer. I think in the interest of time, maybe we'll just do one last question. There's a question here asking, will Wistron continue to dispose Wiwynn shareholdings?
There is no any concrete decision yet, okay. We will make the best arrangement for whole group. In summary, I would say that we are going to look at the best arrangement between Wistron and Wiwynn. In any cases, Wistron will continue to hold major share of Wiwynn. Wiwynn will continue to be Wistron's affiliate or subsidiary companies. That is our goal.
Thank you so much, Simon. Before we end this webcast or call, do you guys have any closing remarks?
If I may, I would like to say that the overall competition in this industry is pretty much severe. We all believe that the overall global economy is also not looking very promising. Simultaneously, we also see the geopolitics is not really favorable to us. One of our major movements in the last couple years and we'll continue to do is, we are going to fit in customers' requirements to give them better supply chain arrangement. Whether they request us to deliver from America, from Europe, from Southeast Asia, from Taiwan, or from China. As you can see, our global footprint is pretty much comprehensive, that we are able to fulfill our customer requirements. If you look at our current development for our manufacturing capability globally, we have two Lighthouse Factory already. We got it.
We continue to develop more and more Lighthouse Factory, which means that we are going to have more so-called smart manufacturing on a global basis. That is one of our competitive edge in the next coming years. I would say that this is not easy. We still need to have more and more talent from overseas and also from Taiwan. We look at such kind of challenges is a positive way that we can also move ourself to become more successful. As a result, for the future, there is no any guarantee that you're going to be here or there. The most important is we have pretty much clear vision. We also understand where to go. We understand how to arrange our resources for margin business, for core business. We also understand how to mitigate the global risk under such kind of geopolitical situations.
We need to have very good partner inside and outside. I would encourage our team member to look for so-called, we call it, not easy, but still promising future. I also hope that all our partners, no matter is investors or reporters, understand that the life is always need to have some challenges that you can grow. For my best wishes for everybody, thank you very much.
Great. Thank you so much, Simon. Thank you so much, Jeff and Stone, for your time and sharing your insightful thoughts with us. This concludes our webcast today, and thank you everyone for joining us. We'll see you next time.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.