Afternoon. Thank you for joining Innolux 2023 first half investor conference. Your dial-in will be listen-only mode at the first part of the call. We will take questions after management presentation. You may download the Chinese and English conference materials at our company website. Please spend some time to read the disclaimer notice on page two.
Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to joining our 2023 first half investor conference. This is Jake from Innolux IR team. In response to investor request, today's call will be conducted in English. In QA part, you may ask your questions in English or Chinese. If you have unanswered questions, please contact IR team after the call. We will try our best to answer your questions. Our speakers today are Chairman Jim Hung and President James Yang. Meeting agenda will be market overview, India project, company strategy, and the financial summary. Afterward, we will take questions. Now, I will hand over the time to Jim. Jim, please.
Thanks, Jake. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Thanks for joining today's analyst meeting. My name is Jim Hung , the chairman of Innolux. We are happy to present to you a few key points of our analyst meeting today. Number one, I think we do got a lot of the requests asking the recent widespread rush orders, how sustainable that is. We think it's a combination of a few key things, from the inventory restocking to the end demand recovery, even including some of the new applications from AR, VR glass, 3D printers or automobiles. I think James will give you much more details later on. The second key points in today's meeting we will share with you is our Indian projects.
I think the board meeting a few days ago has come to the conclusion that we will involve in a preliminary MOU with our Indian strategy partner, Vedanta. We will also share with you our view on that project. Thirdly, we would like to share with you what we have been done in the company in the last four years of the whole transformation process. More important is how we are presenting and position ourself in the next transformation stage. Lastly, we will have some financial highlights to share with all the investors. I will stop here and give to James for the next part of the presentation.
Thank you, James. Welcome everyone to join Innolux, first investor conference in 2023. My name is James Yang, the President of Innolux. I am so happy to share with you about the market outlook and also our successful story of CarUX, and also our exciting project, the strategic project in India. Thank you. From the this page, we can find due to the pandemic, the inventories are piling up. Since the last year, the cease of the pandemic and also the uncertainty of war and inflation is improved, so the inventory is lower down. Not only TV, but also the IT. The inventory in recent three years since 2021 is reached a historical low. That is, inventory situation.
Also from the all the peers in the different generation of fabs, you can find the utilization rate totally average is less than the 70%. Supply reduce the pressures and the inventory lower down the recent low. It make the supply/demand more balanced, it give the opportunity to lift up the price. From the last year, fourth quarter, TV first enjoys a juices bouncing on the price. Coming is for the IT. Things are now the CQ1. We expect the CQ2 and the second half. The traditional back to school and the holiday season, and also introduce a new product. The demand was getting stronger. The price got the support, finally lift up, will give the healthy and disciplined industries a landscape.
In our investor conference in 2021 March, Jim and myself specific mentioned about us, entropy CarUX. We're more focused on the high end and also integrated larger display, high resolution embedded with a touch. This kind of from AP to AP is a new user experience emerges with the cockpit entertainment system by the CarUX. Now two years passed, we will show you the results. In this pie chart, we can find last year the CQ4. The number one is TV revenue. Number two is IT notebook combines the monitor. The number three is our automotive, more than the 21% of revenue. Also we check the growth rate. In the past three years, the CAGRs compound annual growth rate is more than the 30%. Last year, the revenue almost reached TWD 40 billion.
That means our strategy is right. Our result is wonderful and fruitful. We just share with you about our performance. We also invite all of the investors and our partners to join with us to catch up the EV opportunities, not only the cars, but also the charging piles or the autonomous driving skill or the driver monitoring system for the futures. Last week, our board member just approved a preliminary plan allow us to enter the Indian market with a local king, Vedanta, for the next customer market in the global economic landscape. That is very important. Innolux will support the technical assistant and also the fab design, fab construction, and supply chain.
Finally, we got the IP licensing know-how transfer, also we got the potential capacity and a new big customers to explore the emerging market in Asia, not only India, but also including South Asia, East. India, as you know, the population more than 1.4 billion and more than 30 million household. For the last year, the TV market just more than 70 million units. The average size is midsize, 32 million units-42 million units. According to the economic situation and market prediction at 2025, the demand will be 25 million units. The area-wise will be more than 30 million square meters. That means can consume the 3 Gen 8.5 fabs. Through this kind of engagement, Vedanta planning the funding and comply with the local rule and regulation, also management the domestic market.
By this kind of cooperation of two parties, Innolux can shoot the three arrows. First, not only the panels. We reshape the supply chain in India and South Asia East for the panel industries. We also got the extra capacity with a competitive price, and then we can serve the global customer more locally in the short supply chain to make sure to sustainable for the future demand by local touch. Thank you. I finish my part. I will stop here and hand over to Jim.
Thanks, James. I think it's a very detailed discussion with all the investors on the market situation or also our Indian projects. From this part, I will share with you that how the company is experiencing the whole transformation process. I think many of you know that this year, 2023, is our 20 years anniversary. 20 years ago, we thanks for our insightful founders, build up from scratch of the whole company and set up a high goal that we want to be a global player in the global market, become a total panel producer. We are proud to say that we achieve that. I think today, from the different product applications, Innolux has its key role from tablet to notebook, monitor, and including the TV products.
This is something we are proud of. Also because of the seasonality of the consumer electronics products, we are experiencing up and down following the cycles, and also from the serious competition from our peers. I think four years ago, since I and James were in the position and think through the company's advantage, we will identify that there are few key products applications that we think they can do much more than the as a component provider. The main thing is on the medical side, which is the X-ray detector, InnoCare, we're producing today. Also on the automobile side, the auto panel, which is what CarUX we're producing or focusing the market is.
I think these two products, the reason we spin they off and up to today is already an independent legal vehicle, is not because that they are in a different product cycle, unlike the consumer electronics. Is it more important is that we believe the value from these two markets can actually be further elaborate to the different level. What I mean by that is, for the other part of the consumer electronics, because we are pursuing the efficiency, we are producing a much better quality to the client needs and also much better take time, so on, so forth, error rate.
On the InnoCare market, and also the CarUX market, we are heavily involved or engaged with our end customers. The brand customers or the end users, we have being positioned as a Tier 1, and therefore the value of those two company and also those two product applications is no longer being just a product itself, but also the software, the total solution we're being able to provide to the customers. Next page. That is one thing we keep highlighting ourself. In the last 20 years, we have been a very successful game player, following the market growth. We identify and spin off these two markets. We are confident to say that we will be the game changers to shift the market focus.
These two company, InnoCare and also the CarUX has been positioned very well as a Tier 1 position. I think like James mentioned earlier, CarUX has been award for the our key customer, BMW in their innovational award 2022, and also it's contribute more than 20% of the total Innolux group's revenue. On the InnoCare, the panel X-ray detector is also not only just awarded quite a few awards, and also is not only just keep a very stable margin. More important is that we believe the catalyst of the InnoCare's future potential is no longer only in the human care market, but also extended to the industrial auto inspection market, even the pet economy market.
Those are the markets we believe that through these two subsidiaries spin-off, we will be better catch the market's growth potential. This is all about the phase I transformation. What can we do next? I think the important thing is that we look into ourself that today we are in Taiwan. We own 14,000+ fabs. Taiwan has always been positioned as one of the most innovative and efficient semiconductor or the Silicon Island. That is due to the close link with all the equipment makers and also all the material suppliers. We are lucky that we also part of the whole value chain.
When we look back into our whole production process, for example, our array production process from developing, coating, exposure, and also our back-end process of bonding, lamination, so on and so forth, we see a huge potential or huge value we can leverage from that perspective. Just to give you a metaphor, it's like a baker with different ingredients and different know-how. We can cook for different kind of the products and better suit what the clients need. That is something we want to position and transit from this stage, and we will soon hopefully to provide you as a concrete result in the near term.
Net net, I am still very confident that Innolux transformation process is keep going, and we are position ourself in a much better market, no longer or much more than just the panel itself. Next page is about our financial performance. Although it's still disappointing that we incur a significant loss in 2022, but the encouraging sign is that if you look closer into the quarter-to-quarter comparison, even our revenue in 4Q only slightly declined Q on Q. A few key product applications like TV and ITI or notebook actually has seen some growth quarter on quarter.
That is basically echo what James mentioned earlier, that we believe these two market are in a very low inventory level and also see the clients start to restock the inventory. That's why we also see the demand start to pick up. We believe this will sustain through the next quarter or two quarters at least. Even more encouraging is that more than just the revenue growth on the specific markets, we also see the margin improvement in CQ4. Our gross margin and operating margin has improved 3.7% and 5.3% respectively. We believe that the margin improvement mainly coming from our cost control capability and also our CapEx and our OpEx control.
That is quite a few of that, like power saving, water saving, we believe sustainable in the longer term. Later on when the cycle recovers, we'll be able to enjoy the further margin from that extra benefits. Net net, I think we are looking cautiously positive on the company's further growth. I will stop here and to hand over back to Jake and start to take questions from you. Thank you.
Thank you, Jim. Now is Q&A section. We will have two parts today. First part, we will answer the question we collect from investor in advance. The second part, we will open for dial-in question. First one question is about the market outlook. According to the market report, there is a price list of TV product recently. Per Innolux view, would it be a sign of resume of demand or only of restocking at consumer side? This question I want to let James to answer.
Okay. The inventory adjustment of the TV panels started in the first half of last year. By the first quarter of this year, the TV inventory level is relatively low across the industries. In addition to the lower utilization rate of peers, the demand price becomes more balanced. Upon the recent price list, we think both issues count. The first one is the customer restructuring about their inventory and then digesting in the pipeline. Another reason is maybe they are prepared for the peak demand and the holiday season in the second half of this year in advance. Thank you.
Thank you. Okay, the second one is about the India project. Can you elaborate more about the background and the roadmap of India partnership project? This one I want to let Jim to answer.
Okay. Regarding the Indian project, I think James already discussed a lot earlier in the presentation. I think I'll just add a bit more from my side. Instead of calling it a project, actually it's more like a commitment. This commitment actually made to our clients, our customers. I think we all agree that all the global clients, they are facing the concern. They want to diversify their sourcing of the panel from purely China or Great China, include Taiwan. We believe that this cooperation with our strategic partner in India first will meet what the clients want in the longer term. This will strongly enhance our relationship with our older global key customers.
Secondly, this also meet what the Indian government has been talking about and they strongly push for Make in India. I think we all agree that India is a big market with a lot of potentials. I think with these projects, we definitely will work closely with our local strategic partner and be able to meet the local various demands. Net-net, I think for us, we are not just monetize our IP or know-how, our technology. We are looking to better serve our key customers. Also we are cooperate with our strong local partners and also definitely most important to Innolux itself.
At the longer term, we believe this strategy move will enhance our longer-term, sustainability, and we'll be able to provide with our shareholders with a better return in the long run. Thanks.
Thank you, Jim. The third one is about the medical market. As you mentioned, non-panel will be one of the transformation approach. Can you elaborate more about your plan in medical field? This question I want to let James to answer.
Thanks, Jeff. We think InnoCare serves a good example non-panel product development. That means based on LCD technology, create more value than that. Currently, it's under the quiet period before the IPO. I may not able to share the detailed data to you, but would be more, be happy introduce you about the opportunity and the technological map. First, we cover the human being. Second, we cover the animal. The other, we cover the industries products. The precision for the Medicare is very important for help the doctor to identify the sickness in the early stage. InnoCare devote ourselves to develop the low dose, high resolution, and then dynamic flexible flat panel detector to meet all the human being Medicare's market demand. Second, we're talking about the economic animals and also the pet. At the pet market now is a blue ocean product.
There is a great opportunity for X-ray detector in the pet hospital and clinic to support the doctor to take care our lovely cats and dogs. Third is about NDT, industries, application and inspection for nondestructive testing. We can enhance the finished goods quality in the process, or we can prevent the mistake in the final package. Even we can secure the piping and the gas, gasoline, all the safety by our nondestructive product. To help the brands, to help the players, to help the channels, to secure the resources, to protect our Mother Earth by the precisions of manufacturing. Like the three segment we are now doing and focusing.
Finally, both of the three, we will invest more resources on the AI through the AI algorithm to enhance the value of our brand for flat panel detector, to help doctors, inspectors, to improve the quality and reduce the cost. Thank you.
Thank you, James. The fourth question is about the auto market. EV and the large automotive display are becoming more popular. What will Innolux and the CarUX do to grab the trend? This one I want to let Jim answer.
Okay. Jeff, thanks for this question. I think also mentioned earlier about how our subsidiary, CarUX, was doing. We see a strong revenue growth year-on-year, and even more important is we see a very strong backlog for the auto panels, not just for 12 months. It's actually much longer than that, time perspective. I think here I want to add up one thing is that the key trend we see on the auto panel market are still on the two things. Number one, the freeform , and secondly, the large panel. I think with these two trends, that's why CarUX being positioned very well and also very focused on these two major technology trends.
I think why these two trends are important is because, for example, on the large panel, many people might say, it's like the TV market, every inch of the TV grow in the household will consume the panel capacity, so on, so forth. Actually, for the auto market, it's different story. It's not just nice to have. It's not like, you use the panel on TV to watch Netflix or TV, or you do the shopping, so on and so forth. You can easily do that on your tablet or mobile phone, without the panel on the car. You can still do the shopping on your mobile phone. Important thing is that we all know that there are much more sensors being installed around the car.
You have the motorcycle, you have kids, you have dogs come around the car, your sensor will feel it, will sense it, and they send a message, how are they going to show on your screen? Also you have fatigue monitor. That's something has been put in force in the Euro market. If you are doing the conference call, you are also watching on your Google Maps, your passenger seat are watching the TV or maybe really doing some shopping, you have alert coming in and have to jump into the screen. If every of this is shown in an 8-inch small monitor or panel, I'm sure that won't be able to catch the driver's attention.
That is why we strongly believe it's not just something nice to have a large panel in the car. It's actually must have, because much more information need to be download and upload into the autos and also interact with the drivers and even the passengers, even in the Level 5 autonomy driving's period. That is something we observe and also communicate with the customers. That's why CarUX, we are not just looking at the market share. We are not just looking at how many shipment, how many piece of the panels we sell. It's the value we create for the end customers, for the driver, for the passengers, and also for the branded customers.
That's why I think the company is being sitting really strong, not just the revenue growth, but also the strong margin and also the client trust. That's again, I think something we are likely to share with our investors in the longer term. Of course that we do not rule out any possibility for CarUX to maybe do JV, M&A and maybe eventually the capital market activities. We are all very open and does not rule out any possibility for the CarUX next step. I will stop here.
Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Jim. The next question is about our product strategy. What will be the company's strategy in product other than traditional, like, TV or IT product? This one I want to let James to answer.
Innolux is a presume never stop for innovations. In the past straightforward years, we are top 300, the IP owner in United States. In last year, we are top one on the Opto Electronics, especially for the panel industry in United States. That accumulate more than the 2,000 IPs, till now. We focus on in the blue ocean, in the red ocean challenges. We try to segmentation the some kind of a niche market. For example, I share with you that antenna business, a medical, monitor.
Also successful story by the company wise, company's label, like the InnoCare for X-ray detector and the CarUX for automotive. Innolux not only focus on TV set total solution provider, but also we will enter the e-paper for the electronic shelf labels, ESL, business. By these kind of things, I think that we also challenging is about our Kymeta's product cover from the small medium mobile device, notebook and monitor. Also now EV car is very charming and booming. We challenging the opportunity about the EV charging pile stations. This kind of a business opportunity through our digital transformation pave the foundation. Through the business intelligence, now we try to adapt artificial intelligence to increase more values.
Finally, through this kind of things, we try to change our mind to catch up the business model with our partners globally in the de-globalization, the challenge nowadays. Thank you.
Thank you, James. Last, another list is about our financial situation. What is the utilization rate of Innolux in fourth quarter 2022 and first quarter 2023? This one I want to let Jim to answer.
Right. utilization rate, right.
Right.
Okay. I think our full Q 22 utilization is slightly decline or below the third quarter stable, somewhere around the mid 70%. Looking forward, we are definitely more positive quarter by quarter. I think first quarter 23, we are looking for some like a single digit improvement, gradually further improvement. I think one thing I want to highlight here is that instead of looking just at the utilization itself, we are also focused on our profitability or how much our cost control ability. I think like I mentioned earlier, even the full Q's utilization was slightly below the quarter stable, our margin improvement actually are very encouraging.
That is something, we believe that, outside of, or besides of the technology improvement, besides of the strategy move, like, mentioned earlier, the alliance with Vedanta in India. The cost control capability is very key for panel company to be able to win through the cycle. I believe that well, our financial results in full Q has just proved that, and we will keep that as our core competence. We will also, expect to enjoy some of the extra cost saving when the cycle start to turn up.
It's not just the utilization improvement itself help to lower the overall cost improvement, but also the cost saving measures have been done in the last 12 months. We believe that will pave the way for the further margin improvement.
Okay. Thank you, Jim. Now we have finished the first QA part. Now we are open for online question. Operator, please.
Thank you. Here comes the QA session. You can raise your questions in English or Mandarin. If you have a question for any of today's speakers, please press star one on your telephone keypad and you will enter the queue. After you are announced, please ask your question. If you would like to cancel your question, you may press star two. Thank you. Credit Suisse, Jerry Su.
Uh,
这 里 是 不 是 意 味 着 ， 中 长 期 来 看 ， India 这 边 ， 这 个 新 厂 ， 的 建 制 可 能 会 大 于 one ？ 那 Innolux 在 这 里 ， 到 底 是 ， 就 刚 刚 提 到 您 扮 演 的 角 色 ？ 那 我 想 要 请 问 的 是 ， 你 们 是 用 什 么 样 的 机 制 ， 来 做 这 个 royalty 或 licensing 的 这 个 collect， 当 做 return？ 这 里 能 不 能 请 管 理 层 帮 我 们 ， 帮 我 们 再 说 明 一 下 ？ 谢 谢 。
呃 ， 好 ， 谢 谢 ， 呃 ，Jerry。 呃 ， 我 先 回 答 您 吼 ， 我 们 先 从 TV 的 状 况 。Tier one 跟 tier two 的 品 牌 状 况 的 库 存 level 确 实 有 不 一 样 ， 那 我 们 现 在 看 到 的 是 ， 呃 ，TV 在 CQ one， 我 们 从 小 size 的 ， 呃 ， 三 十 寸 以 下 的 价 格 ， 我 们 已 经 确 实 反 弹 了 。 然 后 一 样 二 月 份 我 们 中 size， 四 十 、 四 十 、 五 十 这 个 尺 寸 的 价 格 也 反 弹 了 。 我 们 希 望 第 ， 呃 ， 呃 ， 就 是 这 个 月 跟 下 一 季 ， 也 许 八 十 五 寸 大 尺 寸 这 都 可 以 反 弹 。 当 价 格 可 以 反 弹 第 一 件 事 情 是 ， 第 一 个 供 需 上 面 ， 供 给 端 并 没 有 盲 目 的 增 加 ， 如 同 刚 才 Jimmy 讲 的 ， 我 们 more focus 在 我 们 的 获 利 性 ， 我 想 业 界 大 家 也 理 解 这 样 的 逻 辑 。 而 接 着 第 二 个 就 是 市 场 端 确 实 有 需 求 。 我 跟 你 分 享 一 个 状 况 ， 广 利 Black Friday 的 promotion 在 四 月 的 时 候 才 会 排 版 ， 现 在 已 经 有 客 户 一 直 在 ， 在 push 我 们 ， 希 望 我 们 尽 快 能 排 版 ， 原 因 是 什 么 ？
因 为 他 知 道 面 板 的 价 格 已 经 到 了 谷 底 ， 哦 ， 所 以 这 是 ， 呃 ，TV 的 部 分 。 那 IT 的 部 分 ， 呃 ，notebook 跟 monitor， 因 为 这 个 都 是 global 的 ， 呃 ， 呃 ，industries， 而 且 都 集 中 在 ， 呃 ， 几 个 大 品 牌 上 面 。 那 春 江 水 暖 鸭 先 知 ， 我 们 现 在 发 现 for gaming 的 notebook，gaming 的 monitor， 现 在 几 乎 我 们 现 在 是 cover call 我 们 ， 我 们 就 找 我 们 的 供 应 商 追 IC， 哦 ， 所 以 这 个 是 已 经 马 上 可 以 上 。 那 你 也 同 时 可 以 看 到 ，IT 部 分 notebook 跟 monitor 的 价 格 跌 幅 已 经 几 乎 是 收 敛 到 ， 呃 ， 零 点 三 、 零 点 四 这 个 range， 所 以 我 们 预 计 就 跟 我 们 先 前 的 focus 一 样 ， 很 乐 观 ， 第 二 季 应 该 就 是 ， 呃 ， 准 备 反 弹 ， 呃 ， 起 跳 的 一 个 ， 一 个 ， 呃 ， 时 间 点 ， 吼 。 所 以 我 想 这 针 对 比 较 大 宗 的 ， 呃 ， 那 个 TV 跟 IT 做 一 个 说 明 。 那 关 于 car UX， 我 刚 才 有 说 明 了 ， 就 是 说 我 们 不 再 是 一 个 ， 呃 ，component maker， 然 后 我 们 要 等 待 tier one 去 跟 车 厂 直 接 谈 规 格 、 交 期 、software。 事 实 上 我 们 现 在 就 是 tier one， 我 们 可 以 直 接 跟 车 厂 谈 他 的 需 求 、 软 体 、 硬 体 ， 加 上 韧 体 firmware。 同 时 我 们 也 可 以 做 一 件 事 情 ， 呃 ， 产 品 不 是 NPI， 新 产 品 导 入 成 功 就 好 了 。 我 们 最 近 击 败 我 们 竞 争 对 手 是 NPI 两 边 同 步 被 qualified， 但 在 ramp up 的 时 候 ，day one 我 们 就 design for automation， 所 以 我 们 的 ramp up 速 度 可 以 很 快 上 万 、
五 万 、 十 万 ， 甚 至 到 二 十 万 ，with the same quality， 所 以 最 后 我 们 是 拿 到 ， 呃 ，dominance 的 一 个 share 在 车 用 上 面 。 所 以 我 们 强 调 的 是 我 们 有 很 强 的 设 计 能 力 ， 可 以 满 足 客 户 ， 针 对 面 板 的 ， 呃 ， 规 格 ， 跟 相 关 的 软 硬 体 ， 还 有 安 全 规 格 ，software 的 安 全 规 格 上 面 ， 我 们 都 可 以 满 足 客 户 的 需 求 。 那 重 点 是 销 出 来 的 品 质 跟 数 量 ， 在 on time to market，time to volume and with a very competitive price， 我 想 我 们 做 到 了 ， 哦 ， 这 是 针 对 car UX 的 部 分 。 那 后 来 ， 呃 ，India 的 部 分 ， 我 要 说 明 的 是 ， 印 度 整 个 人 口 的 红 利 现 在 是 很 - 很 巨 大 ， 但 是 它 主 要 不 管 是 电 视 、 手 机 、monitor、notebook， 主 要 的 进 口 大 部 分 是 从 中 国 进 来 。 那 品 牌 的 话 ， 呃 ，IT 产 品 当 然 是 global， 带 有 HP、Acer、Asus、Lenovo 都 可 以 进 去 。TV、 手 机 大 部 分 都 是 中 国 品 牌 ， 再 加 上 韩 系 品 牌 ， 所 以 他 很 想 把 他 的 本 土 制 造 来 用 进 口 ， 呃 ， 什 么 进 口 取 代 ， 然 后 来 本 土 制 造 ， 来 扶 持 他 自 己 的 local team， 这 是 他 的 一 个 策 略 。 那 capacity 有 十 四 亿 的 人 口 ， 有 ， 呃 ， 等 于 三 亿 的 ， 呃 ， 家 庭 ， 事 实 上 他 有 那 个 刚 性 的 需 求 ， 只 是 他 的 中 产 阶 级 并 没 有 如 期 ， 呃 ， 达 到 现 在 这 样 的 购 买 力 。 那 我 们 希 望 透 过 群 创 跟 当 地 的 ， 呃 ， 呃 ， 领 先 厂 商 合 作 ， 创 造 一 个 新 的 供 应 链 ， 来 面 对 这 种 的 地 缘 政 治 冲 突 的 时 候 ， 有 一 个 更 强 韧 的 一 个 供 应 链 ， 同 时 群 创 收 取 了 IP 费 用 、 技 转 费 用 ， 同 时 我 们 又 增 加 了 一 个 重 要 的 客 户 ， 跟 多 一 个 出 海 口 ， 这 是 一 举 数 得 的 事 情 。 以 上 说 明 ， 不 晓 得 Jimmy 要 补 充 ， 谢 谢 。
Right. I think James already made that very clear. I think the inventory level, Jerry you mentioned that, the very first question I believe, not just on the panel side, not just on the producer itself, the overall, channels or even to the hub or the end customer side, the inventory level are all very low. That's why the large orders has keep coming, and that's why, as James mentioned that, we even see the customers pre-ordering for the Black Friday's, seasonal demand. I think the CarUX also very clear, the position for itself is not just sell more...Isn't it just another component provider like, what Innolux have been doing very well already? The key thing or the key advantage, CarUX has is the strong linkage of engagement and trust with the end customers.
We're talking about many global leading brand auto names. I think that system integration and also the Tier 1 position will provide the company a much better position and i.e. the margin will be very different or much more resilient than the consumer electronics. That's, that's the add on from my side.
Thank you, Jim.
OK， 好 的 ， 好 的 ， 谢 谢 。 那 我 可 以 再 follow up 一 下 ， 跟 这 个 James 这 边 ， 就 是 刚 刚 提 到 ， 这 个 Black Friday， 拉 货 ， 就 是 在 像 台 岸 可 能 有 ， 有 比 较 提 早 一 些 嘛 。 那 ， 从 您 的 这 个 图 表 看 起 来 好 像 预 习 说 整 个 行 业 产 能 利 用 率 在 二 季 度 左 右 开 始 再 往 上 爬 升 ， 那 这 会 不 会 造 成 说 下 半 年 ， 到 时 候 这 个 ， 这 个 提 早 拉 货 ， 然 后 利 用 率 又 攀 升 ， 那 对 下 半 年 的 这 个 供 需 会 不 会 有 些 什 么 不 良 的 影 响 ？ 谢 谢 。
您 提 的 这 个 逻 辑 上 是 可 能 ， 但 是 我 想 大 家 现 在 面 板 厂 商 在 针 对 去 年 的 财 务 报 告 出 来 之 后 ， 大 家 都 非常 谨慎 ， 品 牌 客 户 也 理 解 到 我 们 事 实 上 是 无 利 可 图 。 那 一 个 产 业 怎 么 样 ， 整 个 profit pool 没 有 有 效 地 均 衡 地 分 配 在 整 个 supply chain， 它 是 不 健 康 的 。 这 也 就 是 为 什 么 我 们 在 跟 客 户 在 bargain 价 格 最 后 可 以 达 成 的 一 个 原 因 。 我 相 信 所 有 的 产 业 关 注 的 player 或 是 所 有 人 都 很 清 楚 ， 一 个 健 康 的 产 业 就 是 刚 性 的 需 求 ， 有 效 率 的 供 应 量 ， 然 后 合 理 的 利 润 。 我 想 我 们 在 坚 持 的 是 should be with a profit， 然 后 我 们 才 有 办 法 持 续 sustainable for 这 样 的 一 个 business。 我 想 大 家 都 是 很 谨 慎 的 ， 从 我 从 供 应 链 里 面 ， 大 家 并 没 有 贸 然 增 加 5%、 10% 更 高 的 价 动 率 ， 大 家 也 是 dynamic 地 调 整 现 在 的 需 求 ， 来 fit 供 需 相 对 的 健 康 。 谢 谢 。
OK， 谢 谢 ， 两 位 的 回 答 。
谢 谢 。 如 果 您 需 要 提 问 ， 请 在 您 的 话 机 按 键 上 按 民 一 。
If you would like to raise your question, please press star one on your telephone keypad. Thank you. 下 一 位 提 问 的 是 Point72 Aaron Wu， 请 提 问 。
喂 ， 你 好 ， 管 理 层 ， 请 问 听 得 到 我 的 声 音 吗 ？
可 以.
很 清 楚.
我 其 实 对 印 度 这 边 有 一 些 疑 问 想 再 请 教 一 下 ， 因 为 这 个 是 一 个 从 James 开 始 回 答 ， 是 一 个 技 转 嘛 。 我 想 请 教 一 下 ， 我 们 对 这 个 工 厂 是 拥 有 所 有 权 的 吗 ？ 还 是 说 基 本 上 就 是 由 印 度 人 自 己 来 管 理 自 己 的 工 厂 ？ 然 后 我 另 外 一 个 就 是 刚 才 有 关 royalty 的 部 分 想 要 再 多 请 教 ， 就 是 我 们 这 次 一 次 性 的 一 个 royalty 嘛 ？ 还 是 说 基 本 上 只 要 印 度 的 盖 新 的 厂 之 后 ， 我 们 就 会 更 多 royalty 进 来 ？ 还 是 说 我 们 将 来 还 是 有 一 些 更 大 世 代 的 一 些 那 个 产 能 ， 也 可 以 就 是 技 转 过 去 给 那 个 印 度 ？ 这 是 我 第 一 个 问 题 。 谢 谢 。
首 先 回 答 您 的 是 ， 因 为 我 们 双 方 签 下 的 这 个 NDA 里 面 ， 就 是 说 我 们 过 了 董 事 会 ， 我 们 要 过 台 湾 政 府 的 核 可 ， 他 要 过 对 方 的 董 事 会 ， 还 要 过 对 方 政 府 的 核 可 。 那 因 为 对 方 政 府 核 可 的 scope， 我 现 在 还 不 确 定 ， 所 以 我 现 在 只 能 给 你 很 明 确 的 ， 现 在 这 个 阶 段 点 是 IP 技 术 授 权 金 这 for sure 的 ， 那 其 他 的 产 能 的 合 作 或 是 更 多 fab 的 新 建 ， 这 个 东 西 事 实 上 我 现 在 不 方 便 回 答 。 谢 谢 。
了 解 。 然 后 我 第 二 个 就 是 一 样 说 印 度 的 问 题 ， 就 是 follow up， 就 是 说 假 设 我 们 把 技 术 移 转 给 这 个 ， 这 个 印 度 的 这 个 公 司 或 者 政 府 之 后 ， 我 们 将 来 在 supply chain 所 扮 演 的 角 色 是 什 么 ？ 是 我 们 会 像 他 一 样 会 购 买 面 板 的 ， 还 是 说 基 本 上 我 们 会 提 供 一 些 supply chain 的 一 些 帮 助 ？ 然 后 就 是 我 想 了 解 一 下 ， 就 是 我 们 两 双 方 未 来 合 作 的 方 式 是 一 次 性 的 ， 还 是 就 是 我 们 将 来 有 更 多 一 些 engagement。
当 然 这 个 东 西 是 depend， 各 种 可 能 都 有 ， depend on 一 个 对 价 合 不 合 理. 协 助 建 立 工 厂 、 建 立 供 应 链 ， 这 当 然 是 一 部 分 我 们 的 价 值 之 一. 同 时 因 为 假 如 我 当 地 有 客 户 的 需 要 ， 我 也 可 以 变 成 他 的 客 户 ， 委 由 他 的 工 厂 帮 我 生 产 制 造 ， 但 是 产 品 权 是 我 ， 这 种 可 能 性 也 是 有. subject to 他 的 报 价 跟 我 自 己 生 产 的 成 本 的 比 较. 这 again， 还 是 depend on 最 后 政 府 核 可 的 scope. 谢 谢.
I think Aaron, just to answer your question, this is definitely for longer term instead of just one time gain.
我 就 是 一 样 ， 就 是 再 请 教 一 些 产 业 的 问 题 ， 就 是 因 为 ， 大 家 对 于 面 板 产 业 最 大 的 concern 就 是 ， 就 是 有 那 种 oversupply issue. 假 设 India 也 是 像 以 前 China 一 样 开 始 ， 就 是 build 自 己 的 一 个 capacity， 我 想 请 教 一 下 ， 这 对 于 我 们 未 来 就 是 在 看 整 个 供 需 的 一 个 假 设 的 话 有 一 些 改 变 吗 ？ 还 是 说 我 们 基 本 上 以 后 我 们 就 不 会 扩 张 ， 我 们 甚 至 会 变 成 是 一 个 buyer for 他 们 的 LCD 的 capacity？
Okay. Let me answer first. Maybe James can add up further. I think definitely, we like James mentioned, that we are open for different possibilities and so far, it's still in the very preliminary stage. I think what you point out is also a clear point. I think some of our existing capacity are already the older generation, and probably not as cost competitive. I mean, probably, because India in its early stage of building up the ecosystem and we need to measure many various kinds of the elements. Eventually, we do believe it's a very cost competitive facts in India, but it will take time.
I think that's also why James mentioned that we don't want to ruin the possibility that we can cooperate in different ways. Like you mentioned, we can buy the panel from them or we can do different licensing, sourcing or product design, so on and so forth. There is no one line cut saying A or B. It's in the business world, there are many different combinations. I think like I mentioned earlier, the point is what the clients want. I think this strategy move will put us in a much better position to have a local partner to be able to provide the customers more flexibility in the various kinds of products from TV to mobile phone.
Okay. My point is that in the short term, three to five years, your concern will be very limited. You know that why? To build up a fact in India is not only the ambitious demand. It takes time to shifting improve the infrastructure layer and also supply chain to locally supply. To train the talent engineers also take times. I don't think in the three or five years, you will be the significant capacity to impact on the supply chain totally. In the future, we should be very cautious on their progress by this kind of project, we can update you timely. Thank you.
James and Jim.
Okay. Let me take that question first and please feel free to add up, James. First of all, I think, like I mentioned, the whole transformation in 2 stages. The first stage is we identify the product applications like InnoCare, like CarUX, we are very happy to see the progress on these two leading entities to gain the trust from the clients. The second stage we want to much better leverage our know-how and our manufacturing advantage, i.e. our, we are very good at processing the large scale of the glass phase with high yield products.
I think from that perspective, we definitely identify some of the new technology, more than just the panel itself. That is something we will continue to invest. That is one thing, the new technology within the panel space like micro LED, so on and so forth, and also even outside of the panel space. We also identify quite a few that we think can have a synergy with our existing array or CF or even the back end, the LCM process. Those are the places that we will continue to do the investments.
After all, I think we are also having the possibilities that we will pay back to our shareholders when our overall financial situation are solid and we have a good financial results. I think investors are very kind to us, and we should definitely also pay back to our shareholders.
Okay. Thanks to Jim, that means after the successful of InnoCare and CarUX, I can share with you one thing. Enolight has fully developed the automatic equipment for the LED module assembly. More than 75 modules, we are assembly by robot, not by the human beings, to keep the high quality and low cost. We integrate this kind of a capability. We serve the new-Like OSAT, also saying semiconductor assembly and testing house. We successfully to deliver this kind of a service locally and now on the way to globally, and the multiple clients are very satisfied about our proposals. Also we invest this kind of a technology onto our very unique Fan-Out Panel-Level Packaging .
Fan-Out Panel-Level Packaging is quite interesting, the new killers products for power IC for the 5G migration to 6G IC, due to the wide bandwidth, due to the higher signal noise ratio, due to the low resistance for the semiconductors arc, and then also very good performance for the thermal sinks. by these kind of things, not only benefit for the mobile application or telecom communication, but also for the battery management system in EV car for the coming silicon. last year we turn our older fab one into the Fan-Out Panel-Level Packaging . We upgrade our Gen 4 fab two into the X-ray product.
I think that by step by step we will find suitable products to cut in to fit our current facility, cleanroom, and also our bunch of talent engineers. Through this kind of manufacturing service, we believe we can transform Innolux into another horizontal in the coming decade. Thank you.
Thank you so much. Thank you.
Thank you. Next question is from Ryan Chou of Alliance. Go ahead please.
Okay. I like the force of locals emerging demand in India and also due to the major customer request that China resilience plan, the backup plan there. Yeah. Thank you.
Thank you.
Sometimes the burden is a current successful story. Current OSAT, they need to give up the traditional wire bonding, different connecting and the molding. They have a huge equipment for the burden of current capacity. They are now willing to jumping in the new, the blue ocean or the even the blue lake these kinds of red ocean strategies. We are luckily from the panel industries, we entered to the photolithography process. They are now familiar with that. Our domain can combine the new application through the support and assistance from the clients, we got a very good engagement now. Thank you.
Thank you.
这 个 部 分 有 没 有 看 到 这 样 的 一 个 趋 势 ， 那 在 什 么 时 候 会 比 现 在 更 明 显 的 一 个 发 酵 ？ 第 4 个 问 题 就 是 之 前 我 们 在 2021 年 有 讲 到 ， 就 是 跟 超世界 合 作 的 这 个 部 分 ， 那 因 为 已 经 经 过 一 段 时 间 ， 那 不 知 道 说 超世界 这 边 的 合 作 的 目 前 的 一 个 状 况 ， 那 现 在 大 家 产 能 利 用 率 降 下 来 ， 是 不 是 这 边 也 是 同 样 的 降 下 来 ？ 这 边 有 4 个 问 题 ， 请 秦 长 官 说 明 ， 谢 谢 。
Okay. Lisa, right? Yeah.
Yes。
Yeah, let me answer the question first. I think the first question regarding the tax, I think definitely we have the tax credit on the on our balance sheet, and we will fully utilize that. The reason there are still some tax expense so far, on the fourth Q result or 2022 result is because the transfer price between us and our China entities. For all the loss, the operating loss, those tax credit will fully utilize that in the future years when the profit turn positive. That's number one to answer your question. Number two, regarding the water problems, I will let James to handle. Also you mentioned about the auto, the CarUX clients.
I think I cannot tell you the exactly who are the clients names, but I can assure you that the car you are driving today is definitely with our panel on it. Our client, all the key global names in U.S. and Europe, even China.
Okay.
First, I will try to update Innolux is the leading panel makers with fully recycled water. We are leading in Taiwan, even globally. Secondly, even individual fab, we build up the certain percentage from the 7 days-10 days the reservoir for the water, for the process necessary. Third, we already contract with the certain truck for the water from the local trucking company. We also got the approval to get the water resources from the agriculture administration or even from the some kind of water reservoir or dam. Through these kinds of three levels as a guarantee. Currently, we don't need to worry about the impact on the water issue in the situ one.
Also no extra cost incur from this situation now. Yeah. About the automotive wise, I think the leading EV car brand from the United States, Germany, also Japan is our major clients with the largest integrated smart display. I think the last is a new evolution and new user is experiences. Again, the capacity is not the front end limitation, but actually it's the back end. It's not easy for assembly a panel larger than the 30 inch. And with the Free Shape and embedded with touch cover glass and also this kind of very, very high quality that displayed by labor assembly. Innolux takes advantage of our automation lines. Like we are enjoying the very sweet and fruitful the product now. Thank you.