Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Dream Unlimited Corp fourth quarter conference call for Wednesday, February 23rd, 2022. During this call, management of Dream Unlimited Corp may make statements containing forward-looking information within the meaning of applicable securities legislation. Forward-looking information is based on a number of assumptions and is subject to a number of risks and uncertainties, many of which are beyond Dream Unlimited Corp's control, that could cause actual results to differ materially from those that are discussed in or implied by such forward-looking information. Additional information about these assumptions and risks and uncertainties is contained in Dream Unlimited Corp's filings with securities regulators, including its latest annual information form and MD&A. These filings are also available on Dream Unlimited Corp's website at www.dream.ca. Later in the presentation, we will have a question and answer session.
To queue for a question, press star then one on your telephone keypad. Your host for today will be Mr. Michael Cooper, CRO of Dream Unlimited Corp. Mr. Cooper, please go ahead.
Thank you, operator. Good morning, everybody. I'm here today with Deb Starkman, the CFO of Dream Unlimited. A lot's been happening in the company, and we decided with the year-end, we'll provide information so that we can share with anybody who's interested how we look at the company. What I would say is that in March of 2020, when a pandemic was declared and all our lives were turned upside down, there was a 12- or 14-week period from that day until about a week after George Floyd was murdered, that it really made us question all the kind of assumptions that we had had, that you could walk about your life. You didn't have to think about getting sick, that I thought our community was really quite fair, and it was really disruptive.
I mean, literally, at the beginning, it was like, maybe we'll all die, and I'll go broke and stuff. Like, there was a lot of changes in what might be the new normal. Pretty quickly after that, we started to figure out that the things will continue to function. You know, I always find that when you're under tremendous stress or emotional times, the best thing to do is try to figure out one step at a time, trying to achieve little things. Our company was okay. The people were okay at the company. I think the people really wanted to care about each other. We were working with our tenants, working with the different government agencies that we work with.
We started to challenge ourselves as to what would be the business that we would wanna have coming out of COVID. We did it because we really wanted to have a better business, a business that was suited for the future. We also did it because everyone was locked inside their house, and people need motivation. They need to think. They need to be working on exciting things. We really drove our whole company and to try to figure out how do we change what we're doing? How do we adapt for the future? It's been an incredible experience. I don't know that COVID's totally over, but I think we're back the other side, and I think our Q4 results are starting to show how we create a different company.
That's why we put together what I would call our spill your guts investor package. But just as an idea of what's been going on since COVID, we created our impact framework, which really focused on the point that through all of these changes, through disappointments in government and everything else, like, the expectation on companies to do more good is palpable. We think there's a void there that's getting filled in, and we decided to jump into it. We created a team for impact that's worked out really well. As a result, for every asset we have, we set goals and pathways, a marketing system, and we've had our system audited.
Now every time we buy an asset, we look at the financial due diligence, we look at the building condition due diligence, and we looked at what the impacts are. We've been very successful getting RCFI financing, which helps us build affordable housing. We created a pilot project with CMHC, which was an idea our team had to try to figure out how to create affordable housing in existing buildings. Because just building affordable housing takes a long time, it's expensive, and it's risky. CMHC was wonderfully supportive of us. You know, that's how we got into buying apartments last year in Toronto.
What we worked on with them has now become something called MLI Select, which is based on the idea we had, and it's available across the country to encourage owners of apartments to reduce the carbon emissions from their buildings and to create affordable housing within existing buildings. You know, what's great about it is on the 1,200 units that we bought so far that we've used for the pilot project, we're creating 40% of those 1,200 units will be affordable. But through the MLI Select, all the ideas we worked on with CMHC is new affordable housing that we had something to do with, and I think that's a pretty cool impact. We did a loan with Canada Infrastructure Bank, the very first loan to a real estate company to decarbonize buildings.
You know, we're very close with CIB, having worked on this together with them. They encourage us to work with other builders, tell them about it. They'd like to create more buildings that are reducing the amount of carbon. We won a very important bid for us, LeBreton Flats in Ottawa, which is about 600 meters from our Zibi project, but it's actually in the entranceway, so we wanted that one. The work that we're doing there and the social benefits are gonna be astounding. We work very closely, again, with CMHC, the National Capital Commission, a whole bunch of not-for-profits, and we're gonna create something very special there. In fact, that's the first affordable housing project that we've done, that we've agreed to do, where we're targeting who are the beneficiaries of the affordable housing.
That'll be single mothers, First Nations, new Canadians, people with mental disabilities, and veterans. That's actually a way to really try to target our impact, not just reduce the amount of rent anybody has to pay, but really focus on who the beneficiaries are. I'm not sure if people know it, but Harvard Business School wrote a business case on what we're doing. Jamie, Chris, and I went to Harvard to hear them present us, which was kind of cool. It was really interesting to hear because they're now teaching this in thousands of business schools. What they're teaching about is, you know, is there a way to contribute to making the world a fairer place through market investing?
It was wonderful to see how global the class was and all the different views about what we're trying to do. We raised a private impact fund. We also raised three other funds. We created the Dream Community Foundation, which over time will become obvious how important it is for us to achieve the goals we want socially while also achieving the financial returns that we expect. That's just a small sampling of what we've done in impact since COVID started, but there's a lot more. What I'd like to do this morning is have Deb present what Deb presents. I think I'd just comment a little bit on the investor package we put out.
Thank you, Michael, and good morning. For the three and 12 months ended December 31st, 2021, earnings before taxes after adjusting for fair value gains and losses taken on Dream Impact Trust units held by other unit holders was CAD 99.1 million and CAD 151 million respectively, compared to CAD 29 million and CAD 120 million in 2020. The change year-over-year is primarily due to our growing asset management base, inclusive of Dream Industrial REIT's expansion, strong results at A-Basin, fair value gains on our investment properties, and net operating income from our new GTA multifamily rentals acquired in the second half of 2021.
Results for 2020 included the gain on our renewable power portfolio, the sale of 480 acres in Glacier Ridge in Calgary, and condominium occupancies, Canary District, phase one of Riverside Square, BT Town, and Zibi. I'll now briefly go over the results by operating segments. In the fourth quarter, our recurring income segment generated revenue and net operating income of CAD 35.9 million and CAD 10 million respectively, compared to CAD 19.8 million and CAD 6.3 million for 2020. For the year ended December 31st, 2021, our recurring income segment generated revenue and net operating income of CAD 116.8 million and CAD 40.4 million respectively, an increase of CAD 24.5 million and CAD 13.2 million over 2020.
The change was primarily driven by improved results at A-Basin, with all capacity restrictions lifted at the end of March, higher asset management fees largely driven by Dream Industrial REIT's acquisition activity, and earnings from our newly acquired multifamily rental properties. Included in revenue for the three months ended December 31st is CAD 11.4 million related to asset management and development contracts with Dream Industrial REIT, Dream Office REIT, and our partnerships, up from CAD 5.1 million in 2020. We expect these revenues to grow over time as we actively pursue new asset management opportunities. In fourth quarter, our development segment generated revenue and net margin of CAD 114.2 million and CAD 26.7 million respectively, compared to CAD 28.9 million and CAD 600,000 in the prior year.
2021 results were largely driven by the sale of 690 lots in Western Canada, including our first sales at Alpine Park in Calgary, up from 164 lots in the comparative period. Year to date, revenue and net margin for the development segment was down from the prior year results as the prior year results included the sale of Glacier Ridge in Western Canada and 190 occupancies at Dream's share of condominiums. In 2021, we achieved 959 lot sales and 119 housing occupancies. To date, we have secured commitments for 794 lot sales, 19 acres, and 69 houses that we expect to contribute to earnings in 2022, continuing our positive momentum from 2021.
Given the gap between our view of NAV and share price, we believe that continuing to buy back stock is an attractive use of capital and a driver for value creation. In 2021, we purchased 2.4 million subordinated voting shares for cancellation at an average price of CAD 25.29 per share for total proceeds of CAD 61.4 million. We will continually look at the best investment opportunities while also considering how to best manage our liquidity. We also hold interest in both Dream Office REIT and Dream Impact Trust at 35% and 29% respectively, inclusive of senior management's holdings. During the year, we received CAD 24.7 million in distributions from the trust. As of February 18th, the market value of our interest in the trust is CAD 561 million, or approximately 32% of Dream's current market cap.
I'll now turn the call back over to Michael.
Thank you, Deb. Just to be clear, those numbers are for both the interest in Dream Office as well as the interest in the Impact Trust. I'm gonna turn now to the investor package that we put out last night. Just a couple of slides I'll refer to. You know, what stands out to me on Page 3 is 51 million sq ft of commercial and 27,000 units that we either own or have available to develop. I think it's actually higher than that, but the scale of the company is certainly getting to some significance. We have CAD 15 billion of assets under management. What I would point out that between selling Dream Global, CAD 4 billion of office assets plus our renewable power, that's CAD 15 billion after selling CAD 11 billion over the last 5 years.
We move a lot around. Obviously, we put out CAD 60 per share. I'll get to that in a minute. On Page 5, we show how we look at our asset management business with the different public and private funds coming to about CAD 10.7 billion. The recurring income-owned assets is at CAD 2.4 billion our share. I think that's something to keep an eye on because as you'll see, every year, we'll be adding hundreds of millions of CAD of completed properties. Throughout this entire presentation, we really don't have anything in it for potential purchases of new properties. When we talk, I'll show it in a second, but all of the growth comes from assets that we build on the land we own, and a lot of it is well underway.
That's part number three, which is CAD 2.3 billion. Here what we do is we're dividing out what we own in Western Canada, 9,000 acres, from the urban assets in Toronto and Ottawa. The one thing I would say is, you know, we own so much land in Western Canada. If we start to say, "Oh, you know, it's 63,000 housing units, it's enough for 200,000 people," it almost gets ludicrous. We don't get into too much detail about what that can become, but we'll give you a few hints as we go along. The slide, the money slide is Page 7 that says, conservative fair value adjustment over book value. I think what's really interesting is we wanted to share with everybody some values on how we get at it.
I don't think there's a number here that we feel in any way we pushed. I think this is just exemplary. I look at it very simply. There's about CAD 9 extra over book from Western Canada, CAD 9 from asset management, and then about CAD 9 from land in Toronto that's gone up in value, and A-Basin and our units in public companies. It's pretty simple. I know people say we're complicated. I think you're complicated. I think the company is pretty simple. We thought that this would help. Let's see. We'll go through in a second a little bit. A couple of things that we've done, again, this is all during COVID. Geographically, we've gone from having 6% of our assets in Canada that we've asset managed to 28%.
That's a pretty dramatic change, and I think that we're gonna grow a lot in Canada through development across the platform. I think we'll grow by acquisition as well, but I think development is gonna be the main driver. Elsewhere, we'll be growing mostly by acquisition, but some development. If you look at the composition of the assets under management, you can see that, like, it's kinda flat in 2019, 2020, but underneath that, there were some real changes. Industrial's grown a lot. We've got 12% apartments now. Some of that's developed, some of it's been acquired. That was zero, two years ago. You know, everybody loves sheds and beds. We have a lot of that. We're producing a lot more.
Office has been diluted. I think we've been pretty active organizing the company in a way where we're in even more favored asset classes. In 2021 alone, we raised over CAD 2.2 billion of capital for our public business. In our very first year, we've got about CAD 1.4 billion in private capital. You'll see when we talk about conservative valuation, the private capital will be losing money 'cause we're spending a lot of money to set up the business, and we don't put anything in for promotes. When we talk about, say, a 15x multiple of our 2022 numbers, that's basically saying that all of our work and all of our assets in the private business is worth about zero. That's one example of how it could be conservative.
We're pleased with the start on that business, but we have big aspirations for it. Over the last two years, there's been a tremendous focus on if we're gonna be an impact business, we need to have the right credentials. That's just the way it is, whether you like it or not. Getting a GRESB score is important. We went and got a GRESB score. The numbers are off the charts. We went and got an analytics score. It's off the charts. It's really been amazing because we didn't pursue these scores to get legitimacy. We kinda pursued these scores to not lose legitimacy. We're pleased to have them and it's kind of an afterthought. The real thought was let's try to own our buildings and manage them right.
There's some information on our private funds, which is new. I'm just now on Page 16. A lot of this information is expected, except that we have 5,300 apartment units that weren't there two years ago. We're working on doing some transactions now that are identified. That'll bring us another 3,000 or so. We're building a lot. In the West Don Lands, where we're partnered with Tricon and Kilmer, we are building almost a CAD 400 million building. It'll be complete this year. They'll start leasing it up. It won't be stabilized till next year. That's the first third of West Don Lands. The building that follows it is 18 months later. We delivered Block 11 earlier this year. Zibi, we're leasing it up.
By the way, when it's -20 outside and the truckers have taken over your land, it's hard to do apartment tours. The truckers are gone now, and since they left on, I think, like, three days ago, we've done three new leases. We're back in business leasing up the apartments. We're building two more apartment buildings in Zibi right now. Each of these buildings adds, like, 150-250 units. You'll see as we get through things, you know, it's great. We've got a lot of buildings where we're building 100 units here or 200 units there. In Saskatoon, we finished a 121-unit building it leased up in under 6 months. It was about a 6 CAP. Now we're building the sister building to it.
We decided to build townhouses for rent. You know, we try a lot of things and, you know, often it works and often it doesn't work. Our goal is when it doesn't work for it to be really small and when it works for it to be really big. We started with 9 townhouses. They're not quite finished yet. They should be finished next month. We're already leased, which we're excited about. In keeping with the way we do things, we've now given the go-ahead to do another 100 townhouses in Brighton and Saskatoon. You know, this is incredible. It takes maybe 8 months to build and we're building to 6 CAPs on those as well. That's pretty exciting. On Page 17, we've got a picture of A-Basin.
It has been crazy to try to run a ski area through COVID, and the first year of COVID was the first year we were operating it with Vail. Absolutely nothing went according to plan. Last year we had $10.7 million Adjusted EBITDA. It's the best we've ever had, and we were still dealing with COVID. This year started good, then there was no snow. We had a terrible Christmas, but I think we had 8,000 skiers over the long weekend this weekend. Our numbers are fantastic again, so we'll see how it goes. A-Basin. This is another example. I think in the valuation we used 13x or something like that. We think there's tremendous growth potential in the next 24 months at A-Basin. You know, it could be worth more.
The Distillery District has become the center of the east side of the city, and in a way, it really is our first urban impact project. We didn't use those words then, but Waterfront Toronto has it in the middle of all their maps. Whenever they talk about developing the Port Lands and everything else, the Distillery District is highly featured. I'll try to be brief on the rest of this. 318 Parliament is part of the Distillery District. It's a piece of land we bought for CAD 1.8 million. Now it's zoned for 800,000 sq ft. We've got it zoned. We're just about done with the site plan, and then the Ontario government told us we can't build it until the Ontario Line's completed. That's fine with us. It'll just be worth more, and we got enough around there.
Alpine Park we launched. That's land that we started buying in 1997. You had to be patient, but it is tremendous. We're selling as much there as we want. In fact, right now the demand is so high for lots and the demand is so high from purchasers that we kind of agree with the builders. We're just not gonna overcommit because the hard thing is to deliver. We're monitoring how many houses we think can be built, and we're only selling that many. Zibi everybody knows, but it's actually happening now. Federal government's in. We got three buildings renovated. We got tenants moving in. We got two condo buildings. Just this week. Today's Wednesday. Just this week, the utility that we own with Hydro Ottawa was connected from the Quebec side to the Ontario side.
That's the major driver of our net zero. It had been. We had been using cold water from the river and excess heat from the industrial plant on the Quebec side. Just this week we connected it. Now it's heating on the Ontario side as well. Alpine Park is gonna be sensational. Brightwater is proving out a lot. It's got a 40%+ market share and it's a community that everybody wants to be in, and that's really supporting our business of building to rent. I think you'll see over time that we're gonna end up owning a lot of rental units in Brightwater. We'll do the same thing in Alpine Park. We're doing the same. You know, in Zibi, we hope to have 1,500 housing apartments or more, and we're doing a ton in Toronto.
It's gonna add up to a lot of units over the next few years, and we've got a chart that shows that. We talk about impact investing a lot. On Page 25, we show a lot of the things we've either signed up for or achieved. There's a lot of talk about achieving net zero by 2050. We've committed to net zero by 2035. We're doing a loan with Canada Infrastructure Bank. We expect to reduce the carbon emissions by 40% on those buildings. That's one step. If you look at Quayside, which I'll talk about later, LeBreton Flats, and Zibi, we're going to have well over CAD 8 billion of net zero communities. Like, we're doing that today.
If we can build with net zero now, we're very confident that over the next 14 years, we'll be able to work with everything else we have and get it to net zero too. We think it's totally achievable. In 2022, we'll most likely publish or make available our roadmap to net zero. Just wanna go to 27. LeBreton is a very interesting community. We did really cool things on it. One of the things we did was we partnered with a not-for-profit. A not-for-profit can get a different kind of financing than developers. We work with them so that we could get extra affordable up to 41%. But we're able to do it in a way where we're gonna make very good returns.
Oddly enough, we're achieving net zero in this location because the major sewage pipes for Ottawa go under it, and we're using the heat from sewage plus solar to create all the heating and cooling we need, which is something I didn't expect. LeBreton’s public that we want it, and we've actually got a binding deal. Everything's been done. Last week, we were informed that our team with Great Gulf we'd won the Quayside bid, and it was a tremendous accomplishment. At every level, the detail that our teams put into winning this was astounding. It started by saying, "Who should be on our team?" We put together the most amazing international architects and landscape architects, and they did their best work, so we're indebted to them.
There's a guy I'd never heard of, and my wife, Crystal, said, "We've got to get Sir David Adjaye." Everybody said, "You can't. He doesn't do anything like this." I didn't know who he was. I just wanna tell you a little bit about David Adjaye, who is the lead architect on the development. He was born in Ghana. He's the youngest recipient ever of the Royal Gold Medal, which is the highest medal for architects in England. He was knighted by the Queen in 2017 for the work he did for architecture, but a lot of it has to do with not-for-profits, accessibility and, you know, bringing the people and the real estate together. He designed the Nobel Peace Center in Oslo. He designed the Museum of Contemporary Art in Denver.
He's won many awards for the two libraries he built in Washington, which have become the beacons of those communities. He designed the National Museum of African American History and Culture at the Smithsonian, whose opening was named a cultural event of the year by the New York Times. He does half his work in Africa, and his work in Africa is focused on how to improve the lives of people on the continent. He's never done work in Canada. He does whatever he feels like. He feels his work is important. He doesn't do a lot of projects. I said earlier that as COVID hit, we tried to figure out what was changing and what makes sense and how we should be in the future.
I mentioned that we started to focus on impact and how real estate and social good, we need to look at that, and we need to make it work. We need to make all of our real estate be more meaningful in our communities. As a result of that conversation about how we look at our business, David Adjaye said he would do it. He would work with us, which was amazing. That was just the start. On every single level, our team killed themselves trying to put together a bid that was. We wanted them to open it up, take a look at it and say, "You guys just won." We don't know how their decisions went, but it was something out of this world. It was a moment where everything we've been working on came together.
Now, why am I saying that? LeBreton Flats is about a CAD 300 million development. This is 13 acres. This will probably be a CAD 5 billion development. It's a cultural center. In our bid, we designed a 2-acre forest so that you could be on the waterfront and walk on pathways and feel as if you're in a forest. We proposed the largest outdoor roof farm in the country. It's actually the podium for all five buildings. It's amazing. There are pictures available by Waterfront Toronto. You can actually go on blogto, and you can see comments. The thing that hit me with the comments was, this was a site that Google Sidewalk Labs was gonna do. There's a lot of ideas about technology. There's a lot of ideas about surveillance.
My favorite comment in the blog was that—I mean, 'cause whoever wrote it got it. They were saying, "Look, Sidewalk was looking at real estate and technology, and this design is about real estate and people." They called it a post-COVID design. There you go. We think what we're doing is really meaningful. We've got partnerships with every level of government. We're making lots of money at it. I think that there's a lot of glue that keeps our leaders and everybody at our company together and happy. We're really excited about the work we're doing. We mentioned before about the foundation. That'll become more clear what it does in a while. We just hired an executive director. We hired our first community ambassador.
That's gonna be a big part of us being able to deliver the kind of communities that we want, the kind of communities where people are better off living there than if lived somewhere else. That's just a few things. Let's just see if there's anything else in here that's interesting. Page 30 shows the apartments. You can see in it that we're saying 2,760 in acquisitions in 2022. Those are obviously identified. We're gonna get to 10,500, and the balance of that growth is just by finishing the buildings we're working on now. In the appendix, we gave some background on our conservative estimate of value. Quite honestly, it's up to everybody else in the world to decide anything they want.
We wanted to provide a little bit of a guideline that you guys could judge and do whatever you want with. Just a couple of ideas. The office REIT is what it is, and it's one of the best portfolios of office buildings in the city of Toronto. The city of Toronto is one of the most desirable markets in North America, very hard to replace. The transactions that we do see are amazing. We just saw that the Royal Bank Plaza sold to one of the richest men in the world, and it sold at CAD 800 a foot. There's a lot of work to do. We understand that 'cause we did Scotia Plaza, and a building in Liberty Village sold for CAD 925 a foot. That is astounding.
It was sold to other really smart people, to Blackstone. I think that when you think about office generally, you might miss what we do. 'Cause what we do is really boutique luxury buildings. We've improved them a lot. They're. People like them. You can just see in the Liberty Village example, these kind of interesting boutique buildings can sell for more than a bank tower. The Impact Trust, I kind of whined about it on our conference call that it's so cheap. It is. One of the things to keep in mind is, generally, when we wanna do a development, we already have the equity in the land.
If Dream Impact Trust is gonna grow by CAD 100 million a year minimum, just from the construction work that it's doing, it's funded, but we'd love to be in a position to do more good work. I think I mentioned that we saved 43%. When we say affordable, on average, the affordable units that we're building, it's saving about 43% of rent. We also said it's CAD 23 million. We haven't included anything about Quayside, which has another 800. I think they have 150 in Victory Silos. I wouldn't be surprised if we get to CAD 40 million of savings for renters pretty quick. I guess, like, if we did CAD 100 million of savings a year, we'd be housing maybe 10,000 people.
Just for a size, we're up to about 2,500 units, including Quayside. John Tory promised that for all of Toronto, they would do 10,000 units, new units of affordable during his term. I mean, just for scale, we're contributing a lot. On the urban development lands, absolutely record prices for land today. Condo prices are through the roof. We're using CAD 200 a foot for 318 Parliament, 250 for Canary Block 13. Canary Block 13, we're working on selling it. It's the last site left from the Pan Am Athletes Village. It'll be about 600 units. 318 Parliament, I mentioned, with 800,000 sq ft or maybe 600 units, 'cause it's got 300,000 sq ft of commercial. Block 20 we haven't built yet. That's in West Don Lands.
If we take Quayside and we take Victory Silos, I mean, that's about another 8,000 units that we have to build. We did finish 1,400 in Distillery, 1,400 in the Pan Am Games. We're just about finished another 750, so that's almost 3,000. We got the Indigenous Hub under construction. We've got Blocks 3, 4, and 7. You know, we're probably about 40% of our way through building in that area. I would also add, that's probably one of the biggest assemblies of land in the downtown area that anybody's involved in. I think we're up to almost 70 acres of land that we have, are or will be developing in downtown Toronto. That's worth a fortune. Western Canada, we put in that.
We think the land was CAD 80,000-CAD 100,000. We used CAD 80,000 here. You know, you can do it the way you want. But Alpine Park is going, and that means we're getting a lot of money per acre. There's a lot of demand, so I think that's a reasonable value. A-Base, and we're using 13x CAD 10.7 million to get to the value. We're hoping we can get that to CAD 15 million in the next couple of years. That's got lots of upside. The asset manager, we're really at the beginning of creating an asset manager. Brookfield came out with their idea that maybe they split them up. Blackstone's trading at more than any Canadian bank, and they're asset-light. You pick a number of what an asset manager is worth, but it really hit us.
After we made our presentation to the board in December for our 2022 plan, we actually went away, had another retreat, and came back with more ambitious numbers and a plan as to how we could try to create an even larger asset manager. There'll be more to come there, but, we're really just showing the 15x multiple of a part of the asset management business. Hopefully, we'll grow it, and, hopefully, as we grow it, we'll even get better margins. I think that's got a tremendous amount of upside. I think at some scale, it goes from 15x to 25x. We'll stick with the numbers are fairly conservative. That's just our view. That's why we come into the office.
One thing I would say before we answer questions is Jason Lester and I used to race sailboats a long, long time ago. We were pretty good at it. Every once in a while we'd have a different idea than everybody else, and we called it a flyer. A flyer was when you went as far away from everybody else as you possibly could to try to get a different wind. It's risky 'cause if you don't get the wind you want, you're gonna be behind everybody. If you get the wind you want, you're just on your own. You're in your own sorta state of mind, and you're going at a different speed. I would suggest that when COVID hit, we went on a flyer, and we started to think about our business differently than we ever had.
We tried to go as hard at it as we could, and we're just starting to see it coming together now. Quayside was a real indication that what we're doing is good enough to compete with the best. The best doesn't matter. The best private developers, the best global developers, the best whatever. The competition for Quayside was amazing. I'm sure every one of their plans would have been outstanding. I think our team is really focused, and we got through COVID well. For our own well-being, we got through COVID on what our role is. As we head into 2022, we thought we'd share more with you in terms of what our company is, and hopefully that'll help you understand and come to your own conclusions on our business. Okay. Any questions?
Thank you. We'll now begin the question and answer session. If you do have a question, press star then one on your touchtone phone. If you wish to be removed from the queue, please press the pound sign or the hash key. Our first question is from Dean Wilkinson from CIBC.
Thanks. Good morning, guys.
Good morning, Dean.
Michael, you're not complicated, you're misunderstood.
Any empathy is appreciated.
I share it with you. Thanks for the puke your guts out disclosure. There is a lot of helpful stuff in there. I won't go through a lot of the detail. You know, we can read that all ourselves. I just wanna ask, you know, when you look at the three rather large switches you've got now, so there's that, the AUM and the growth in the private investment vehicles, the recurring income owned assets, and the development. Over the next couple of years, which one of those levers is likely to sort of, you know, move the dial for us in terms of the financial results?
That’s really interesting because, you know, if it takes us 2.5 years to build a CAD 100 million building and we own half of it. It's great. It's amazing. It's an asset to hold forever. You know, all these things we're doing are to get amazing quality properties. However, if we're able to attract money to our funds or create a new fund, the leverage on our earnings and value, that's the fastest. That's why after we presented our business plan in December, we kind of looked at each other and said, "Okay, that was really interesting to hear ourselves speak. We gotta go away and rethink it." That's really been our realization. We were doing this prior to Brookfield's announcement about how asset management worked.
Basically what Brookfield was saying, if I read it right, was that they're saying the trajectory on asset management is so steep, and if they do a great job on real estate, they might get a 9.5% return compared to 8%. That if they're growing a business at 30% a year, that's just an anchor, so they should separate them. I think that's what they were saying. That was... We were already working on it, but when they said that, it was pretty amazing to help us understand.
In that, and when you look at those private investment vehicles, I mean, you know, obviously, the two biggest sleeves are the two most favored asset classes. Is that something that you could see going standalone? I mean, you've already got Dream Industrial, so I don't know if that would compete with that. From the multifamily side, like, where do you hit scale in any of those vehicles and within, you know, that private stuff that you can look at doing something to that effect or is that not on the radar?
Yeah, for sure. I mean, it's interesting, if you said like, "Well, what would you do rather than use your capital to buy back stock?" I mean, the one that's really occurred to us, which we've been doing, is use some capital to start an asset management vehicle, and the returns on that are very high. If you're talking about the residential that we're doing, we have a plan. We think that we should have a dedicated apartment vehicle. I'll leave you in that suspense.
Okay. You're good at that. Last one for me. On the asset management, the guide is CAD 29.5 million of EBITDA. What's the revenue assumption under that, the margin you baked into that estimate?
I have no idea. What we were doing was we doubled the size of our fee business last year, and we didn't have the assets either invested or for the whole year, so, you know, 2021 wasn't a good number, so we sort of just applied some numbers going forward. As I mentioned, our private business, the margin at this point is 0, basically. But that's okay. I mean, we're spending a lot of money. We're hiring a lot of people, and it's going great. We just need to have a platform in order to attract the money. The margins on our public businesses, I think you can see them if you just. You can see them before we started the private business. Because that's all we had.
Yeah.
I think if you look at 2020's numbers, that'll be pretty clear. I don't know if it's changed, and I don't know. Deb, do we. Is there any division between the public and private assets in our disclosures?
No.
No. One thing we haven't really emphasized much, for no reason at all, is that, when we develop, we're the active developer. Dream is the active developer for everything we talk about, whether it's in the office REIT, the industrial REIT, all sorts of things. I think we'll start to see that those fees will be in excess of our overheads and will start to be a contributor.
Right. There's the most torque would be in that side of the business as you would scale. I will hand it back. Thanks. Again, thanks for the exposure and, congrats on the Quayside. It's a great deal.
Thanks, Dean. I appreciate your interest in our business.
Our next question is from Sam Damiani from TD Securities.
Thanks. Good morning, everyone.
Morning.
Yeah, thanks again for the detail. Very much appreciated, and extremely interesting. Just finish off on the asset management, NAV, that CAD 29.5 million, does that compare to the CAD 17 million in the MD&A?
Yes.
Okay. That's pretty significant growth. I'm not sure if you answered that or not, but like, is there an embedded AUM growth beyond the 15 billion today or 9 billion fee earning to get to that number in 2022?
No, it's really getting the money we raised invested for a whole year.
Okay. All right. That's helpful. I guess, back to also one of Dean's other questions. I'm just looking at the scalability of the asset management platform. Clearly, you've been on a strong trajectory the last few years, but, and I know we're implicitly in your guidance for the NAV is 0 growth, I guess. Realistically, when we look at, you know, this year and next, I mean, what, you know, what do you see as the levers that you could pull to, you know, to take that, you know, how much higher, I guess?
I'm smiling as you say that because I think the biggest lever is we need to get institutions to like us.
Okay, let's assume that.
That's actually my full answer. What I would get at is, I'm gonna make up a number, it's just as an example, but it just seems like institutions have 50% more capital for real estate than they did before COVID. Like, it's massive, okay? You got, like, Blackstone and Brookfield that are killing it. I also think Apollo doubled their assets under management during COVID from 250 to 500. So you can see that these mega global asset managers are doing great. There's some asset managers that didn't get enough scale, and they're kind of going sideways. There's other ones that didn't have good numbers. What surprised me is I think there's lots of room for new entrants. You know, we've been well received.
I think something like Quayside, everybody knows that Sidewalk Labs with Google, with their site. Like, I think all of these things help us get audiences, and hopefully, we'll be able to get out and see enough people, and they'll find what we're doing compelling. We're pretty confident that we are finding opportunities that get good returns. We're pretty confident that if we got the money, we would able to execute not just with acquisitions, but also getting the returns. A lot of it is just introducing ourselves to investors.
On the private capital side of the business, you know, it's pretty quick start, you know, when you launched that. I think your CAD 1.4 billion raised last year, and you're guiding, I think, to CAD 1 billion in 2022. You know, what specific areas do you see targeting to, you know, to raise that CAD 1 billion on the private side?
It's a great question because it kind of changes every day. You know, there's a series of meetings that goes this way. Now, again, to foreshadow, there's something coming on the residential side. We're working on a couple of new segregated funds, and then we're hoping to raise more money for the impact fund. We're working on that now. We want to raise more money for the industrial fund, so we're probably saying if 6 or 7 out of 10 work, we should get to CAD 1 billion.
Okay. Over to A-Basin, I mean, pretty huge recovery last year, and you think the EBITDA can grow to CAD 15 billion. What sort of timeframe was that, and what needs to happen? You know, I guess where you see 2022 ending up.
What needs to happen, okay? We need the same rules for a while.
Yeah.
We need to have an average snowfall, and then I think we get there. There's a few other things. We did a deal with Ikon, and we have a limited access to Ikon. People are loving our ski area, and the experiences are amazing. When I say that, I mean, like, statistically, based on all these things, we're 4.8 or five. By the way, just out of curiosity, if you can't sleep, just look at the kind of comments that Vail's getting. Vail reduced their season pass tickets by 20%. We had a bad start to the snow season, so they didn't bring on employees. I can't get it, but Jamie can.
He showed me a video in Breckenridge this weekend of a line of over 2 hours to get on a gondola at Breckenridge to get to the chairlift line. We went the opposite way. Again, a bit of a flyer. We reduced the number of skiers. We raised our prices. We limited the number of season passes, and people are having a great time. At 3,000 skiers a day, we have no trouble with lines, no trouble with anything. We think we can do more. When we deal with Ikon, we limited the access to those holders too much. We're hoping to, if we make some changes there, that could help us.
The big news, previously unannounced, is that we have bought a high speed new chairlift to go up to the top of the mountain from midway, and we'll have 6 seats. It's a very large, sophisticated lift, and that will get people access to the top of the mountain to our expansion of Montezuma and our expansion into the Beavers and Gullies. That's gonna make the experience even better. I think if we have a consistent snow through the fall, a little more iconic visitors, and then in the spring, I don't know, it's getting pretty exciting. We've got decent snow, decent weather. This weekend we had huge yields on our tickets. Huge. The people are spending money. Like, we just need a. I don't know how to say it.
It's almost like, you know, you have one week, then you have another week, and they seem similar. Oh, by the way, we had 25 people a day dropping with Omicron over Christmas. We only have like 350 employees. We lost 25 every day. We closed the ski rental shop. We reduced it to like two items of food. The guys are magicians the way that they're managing with nothing. Yeah, it was our best year. You know, we see that they're just if you can get employees, and if you can use the ski rental shop, and if you can have all your restaurants open, we should be able to do a lot better than 10.7. I know it's a long answer.
Well-
Oh, yeah. A-Basin this year was in National Geographic's 10 best worldwide adventures.
I don't know why I haven't been there yet.
I do want the people to hear that we have a theme in everything we're doing, is to have just absolutely excellent assets.
Maybe just to finish off on the Western Canada. You know, obviously a huge year for sales.
Did you see the Ukraine thing? Oil through the roof. Can you believe it?
Okay. I'm not gonna go there.
Sorry
... the MD&A kind of guides to higher lot sales in 2022. Just wanted to be clear on that. When we look at the average sale price, you know, which included Alpine Park in Q4, really, really jumped up to CAD 141,000 a lot. Is that, is that a good sale price to use for, I guess, for 2022 and going forward?
Yeah.
How do you think about, you know, sales going forward and builder inventories and, I don't think you're planning on getting back to 1,800 lots like you were doing, you know, eight years ago. You know, how do we think about the market and the healthiness of it, I guess?
I was saying about how, like, A-Basin hasn't had, like, two weeks that were similar. It's been hard. In Western Canada, we reduced our staff by half. We didn't build anything that wasn't sold. When we thought about the numbers for 2022, effectively, we're not spending any money developing land if we don't have a lot sold. You know, whatever we're saying is right because we got contracts. We're not developing anything now and saying, "Hey, let's see what happens," or anything like that. We're trying to manage it without taking on a lot of risk. Who knows? I mean, if we have another year or two like this, we may wanna be a little bit more expansive.
The part that is interesting is on the first apartment that we built in Brightwater, if you use land at fair value, we made CAD 5 million by building that building on an acre and a half, and we're doing it again. We're gonna try to get a lot more value out of less real estate going forward. I think you'll see that with the townhouse and everything else, it'll be good.
That's great. Thanks very much.
Thank you.
Our next question is from Chris Koutsikaloudis from Canaccord Genuity.
Thanks. Morning, everyone.
Morning
you know, I guess as we look out kind of over the longer term, Michael, just wondering if you have an idea or maybe a target asset allocation for the business between asset management, recurring income, and development.
Sorry, could you repeat that? Oh. Oh.
Just thinking about your NAV over the long term, and where you kind of wanna derive value, or where you see the value of the business.
Yeah
kind of being allocated.
I think we're going to continue to look for opportunities. I would say that, you know, we hope the asset management business grows really big, and if it does, it'll dwarf our income properties. The allocation will be determined primarily by how much money we raise. The second thing I would say is, you know, with the impact trust and the impact fund, more and more of the ownership of the developments are happening there, not in Dream. Dream is likely going to own less of new pieces of land in the future than we have in the past. We'll be doing more and more developments. We'll own our interest through the funds. We might own a little bit if it's too much money. The Quayside, Dream may take a piece of because it's so big. We'll see.
A lot of the properties we'll end up owning through the funds. We you know we wanna make sure that Dream manages risk okay. We wanna develop and keep assets, and as I said earlier, it takes a lot longer to build a CAD 100 million building than it does to raise CAD 1 billion that might be worth a lot more than that in our asset management business. We're not gonna do the allocation that way. We look at the income properties and say, "How do we make sure that we got a lot of recurring income? How do we make the company safe?" In a wild dream, if we got to CAD 30 billion of institutional assets in 5 years, let's say, it'll overwhelm our income properties and value.
We don't say what's the right balance there. Kind of, we have a balance on how we manage the development assets and how we get the recurring income, and then we go as much as we can on the asset management from third parties.
Got it. That's helpful. Just on the development side, you know, having now expanded the pipeline with LeBreton and Quayside, just wondering, you know, are you guys kind of happy with the projects that you have now? Would you still be adding projects? Or, you know, is the capacity of the team kind of satisfied with the amount that you have going on?
Yeah, it's a great question. We asked the team that, they're like, "No, we're going for more." I think they're feeling quite confident. We're having continual meetings on strategic partnerships so that we can share some of the work with people. There is a big shift going on. The way it works is every level of government looks for land that they are not using very well, and that try to figure out how to patch it up so that they can sell it to a developer to create affordable housing. I think I heard there was like 36 different opportunities in 2022. I made up that number. It's significant. We're definitely gonna continue.
Those projects, if you get them right, they can be not too capital-heavy and we feel there's less risk in them, and especially 'cause they might have 30% or 40% affordable, which we would expect to be leased all the time. Yeah, we're still looking. We're looking a lot.
Okay, great. Just last one from me. Your investor presentation references a U.S. multifamily portfolio that's expected to be acquired later this year. Just wondering if there's any more detail you can give us about these properties and where we should assume this portfolio will sit, whether that's gonna be in one of the private funds or in Dream itself.
At the Impact Trust conference call, I was asked if I could say anything about Quayside. I had just heard about it 10 minutes earlier, so I said, "At this time, I can't say anything." I could two hours later. On the residential, it's not that soon, but I would say within 6 or 8 weeks, there should be lots of information, but there's no point providing any more than that. We're gonna pursue something new, and it will be in the asset management bucket.
Okay. Thank you. That's it for me.
Thank you.
Once again, if you do have a question, press star then one on your touch-tone phone. I see no further questions at this time.
Okay. Well, thanks, everybody, for tuning in. We did spill our guts in that presentation. We will not be doing that every quarter, and I don't even know if we'll ever do it again. We've just been thinking of the company so different than we used to. We felt that we needed to share that with you so you could judge us on how we look at the company. You know, it's there and sort of some ideas. You do your best, come up with your own conclusions. I do think that our goal was to show you what we're doing and what we think about it. Thanks for sharing it with us. Open to your feedback and buy the Impact Trust. Okay. Speak soon. Bye.
Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. That concludes today's call. Thank you for participating, and you may now disconnect.