Everybody, thank you very much for joining today. I am Scott Callon, Chairman of Ichigo. We are here to discuss the FY 2024/2, so the February 2024 full year corporate results. I am joined by Tetsuya Fujii, who is our Lead Independent Director, and by Dan Morisaku, who is a Senior Member of the Finance Team and the head of our global IR. So let's jump into it. Starting with summary, there's a lot of information today, so I'm gonna go relatively quickly and jump around. To choose a technical phrase, things are screamingly good. I'll go into more detail on this. Year-on-year earnings up across the board, we've got all NOP, and the two most important numbers for us are all NOP and cash EPS.
So they were up 25% and 19% respectively, year-on-year. Record stock earnings with very successful activity in our hotel business. This was a great business, which became a terrible business during COVID, and has become a great business again. We're driving shareholder value via both growth investments and share buybacks. We asset acquisitions, which are a forward driver of profitability. We buy assets, we preserve and improve real estate. We buy assets and add value to them and sell them on. So the fact that we're finding assets we find good to buy is very important with respect to our forward earnings outlook. We did two share buybacks during the year. One of them is ongoing. We bought back 2.7% of our shares.
We are canceling 60 million shares, so 12% of our total outstanding shares, which we bought over the last seven years. We're on our third consecutive decade dividend increase. We are not the company that is focused on dividend. We're the company focused on driving maximum returns for our shareholders. It is a case though, that the amount of cash that we're generating allows us to drive higher dividend, and we have a domestic investor base in particular, that really likes dividends, so we're happy to give, give people dividends. But at the end of the day, Ichigo is about growing as much as possible, stable, sustainable EPS for our shareholders. We worked on growing value for Ichigo REIT's sponsor. We have a high quality asset pipeline. We provide financing. We've actually been buying REIT shares ourselves.
We think they're both cheap, and it's also a way to increase sponsor realignment. Here's a brief summary of what the high level numbers look like. Our stock earnings relative to fixed expenses are over 200%. That's a way of saying we are structurally profitable. The total stock earnings as a percent are about 60% of our earnings are up 24% year-on-year, led by growth in sustainable real estate. Asset management is up a little bit. Clean energy was basically flat. Here's how the numbers break out. All NOP, as I said, up 25%, cash EPS up 19% year-on-year. It's important to know that we are focused on maximizing long-term cash flows for shareholders.
It means our cash earnings, our economic earnings, exceed, may exceed our accounting earnings. Specifically, cash EPS is 1.5 times our EPS and our cash ROE is 17%. Here, the segment earnings details. Asset management looks ugly. It's down 50% year-on-year. You'll see we had performance fees are down absolutely, massively. We had an extraordinary year last year in terms of performance fees. That was not to be repeated, but that business is, in terms of its basic growth profile, is going well. I'll talk about how it grows in the next year also. Sustainable real estate, both across multi-asset and Ichigo Owners , which is a much higher turnaround, turnover business. Clean energy was down a little bit.
That was primarily from one-off maintenance activity, where we had to shut some plants a little bit during this year. We had our second largest plant come online in January, so that's in the final two months of the year. We'll have a full year earnings contribution from next year. I'll go through quickly this. There are certain elements of our business model, which are important. One, is that we're a combination of both stock and flow earnings, meaning we have this super durable stock earnings base, which more than it was double our fixed costs, but we also have flow earnings that are on top of it. The stock earnings were a record high this year. Here's how they break out by segment.
As you can see, one of, you know, we are primarily at this point still driving the returns of the firm out of our sustainable real estate business, SRE. But it's interesting to look at the page. We've done more in the hotel space. We actually bought a hotel operator a couple of years ago, right in front of COVID. That was disastrously bad. As you can see, the light blue kind of, what is it? It's a royal blue line that goes to JPY -866 at the bottom in FY 2022. That we got all that back this year. That business is a non-asset business. We think that's very positive on durable returns, and we expect to grow that going forward.
Our embedded forward earnings, we have all these kind of unrealized gains. So these are third-party appraisals, which put our unrealized gains at JPY 72.5 billion. Total market cap is around JPY 200 billion, so that's a big number, and it continues to grow. What's really important to see, though, is that we think those third-party appraisals substantially underestimate the actual, embedded gains that are in the balance sheet. As you can see, we generally realize about 2x, two times, the returns that the appraisers think we're gonna generate. It's a way of saying, we have about JPY 100 billion of shareholder equity.... We've got JPY 75 billion of what the third party appraisers say are our unrealized gains. We double that, this is JPY 150 billion.
We're actually trading right now on that basis at about 0.85 NAV. It's a way of saying both that we're cheap, and two, I and everyone else at the firm needs to work harder because we're trading a discount to our, to our, to our book value. So, so that is both a, a statement of valuation that we think is compelling about the company, and to, to the point again, we need to work harder, and so we're gonna deliver more value for all of you as our shareholders. We are focused on, as I say, not accounting, metrics, not, things like net income, which is only accounting. We're focused on cash. So economic operating cash flow is super important to us, and that regularly tracks in at double our net income.
Here's what our financing looks like. We actually put in a forecast for you because as you can see, the financing, the average tenor of remaining loan maturity dropped to a little bit above 5 years. So it looked like it's always going down, so we wanna give you some guidance as to what's actually going on. We've got a bunch of refinancings that are occurring in the next 3 months, and so the Q1 forecast will show you what's gonna happen with that. We're gonna rebound back up. It's worth pointing out that you can see that our average cost of debt is going from 89 basis points, which is fantastically low, to 105 basis points, which is also fantastically low, but it's doing that really, really quickly.
To explain what's going on there, there has been a big upward move in TIBOR. So our base rate -- what's going on there is no change in our spread. When the Bank of Japan removed its negative interest rate policy last month, all of a sudden, TIBOR moved, and so there's been a move of TIBOR from 8 basis points to 26, so an 18 basis point move just in the last 6 weeks. That means our financing is going up. Everyone's financing is going up. So welcome to a world of Japan, where we go from extraordinary low interest rates to still extraordinarily low interest rates, but that's meaningful.
16 basis point move in our financing costs, and we expect to see a 16 basis point move in our financing costs, and we think that's gonna go up. So the good news is, the return opportunities in our real estate business has gone up much more than a small uptick in financing costs, but we think financing costs are gonna go up, and we're gonna continue to out-deliver against the financing cost increase. We are, and I'll talk about this a little later, very well regarded for the strength of our sustainability activities. This means that we increasingly are using something that Japanese financial institutions really want to do, which is more sustainability ESG-linked loans. This is, at this point, it's about a quarter of our loan book.
These loans have better terms than our standard loans. This is a really great way for us to increase kind of the attractiveness of our financing, and we're doing so. Here's what buy-sell activity looks like in the sustainable real estate business. Probably the most important to see is that acquisitions and sales were almost identical. So we bought more this year. We sold more this year. There is the business, we're increasing the turnover in business because we can, and we should. That drives higher returns for our shareholders. It's a very strong market. I'm sorry, I'm not gonna go into a lot of details because there's so many pages, and we'll have a question and answer, and I'm happy to get input there. But anyway, we went forward.
The turnover is increasing in a very strong market where our value add is increasingly demandable. This is what it looks like, breaking out the two kind of key businesses within sustainable real estate. We have the classic multi-asset business, which does kind of multi-year value add, and then we've got the Ichigo Owners business, which has got an average hold of less than a year, so much quicker. You can see there's kind of broadly equivalence between the buy and sell activity across that. That's as it should be. We do not own assets forever. We buy assets, we improve them, we then recognize the value created, you know, via doing transactions with real estate, new real estate owners who want those better assets, so we upgrade.
Our hotel earnings are going up also. As you can see on the bottom, you've got that, you know, devastating negative impact of COVID and the operator business. You can also see the plunge in the red bar that occurs as we go into COVID, and now we're back up to 1.4x pre-COVID. Things are very, very strong. Let me talk a little bit about our biggest asset. We bought a very large asset. It went really, really well into COVID. It was located in the Bay, Tokyo Bay area, which is gonna be a major point for Olympics activity. As you know, the Olympics was first postponed and then canceled as an event where spectators can be involved.
But more fundamentally, we had these massive COVID-linked departure or large tenant departures, so occupancy went from 100% - 50%, and it was devastating. We spent the last couple of years crawling back from that. And again, we add value to our assets. We are absolutely tenacious, trying to understand what tenants want. So the good news is, we have had the ability to address the situation, to solve problems for tenants, and to offer them the spaces and functionality that they want. It's a very good office, and so the occupancy is rebounding. You know, very specifically, we're doing things to make the tenant spaces more attractive.
We have taken the building, and we've repositioned it away from very large tenants to smaller kind of startups, and who want to spend more time with each other. We've created open spaces. We've got a cafe, we've got lounge, we've got meeting rooms. We've got kind of community events where they can meet each other. You know, it has always been our view that was something fundamentally true about WeWork and its approach to people want more community. We just think that the massive part of the market is does not want necessarily community within kind of a shared space.
They want community that can be available to them within private spaces and also in shared spaces, and so that's what we're doing with our, with our assets, and Odaiba is an example of that. Ichigo Owners continues to grow. You can see that, we delivered JPY 5.4 billion of operating profit in the last year, and the year going forward, we expect that to drop to JPY 4.5 billion. We had about JPY 500 million of excess rental income, meaning that we actually tend to do owner sales kind of in the middle of the year. What happened is we actually didn't do the transaction, a very large sale transaction to the end of the year, so we got additional rental income, which was great.
We're happy with that, but we don't think we should look for monetizations that always happen at year-end, so we'll have a drop-off from some rental income. We actually outperformed very substantially what we were expecting in terms of the gross margin on some of these transactions. So we think 4.5 is a more normalized level, and we'll see, you know, how much we can beat that by this year. The other thing that's important is the owner's business has really transformed itself. It started out as a kind of very small business focused on kind of, you know, cash-rich individuals and business owners and businesses. That's what the, you know, 2.6 number, the small number, looks like in fiscal year 2018.
It then transformed itself into overwhelmingly institutional investor business. We ended up finding out that, yeah, you can sell kind of one asset at a time for, you know, $8 million - $12 million, but you can also sell 20 of them at once to a large institutional investor, which wants... And by the way, just to remind you, Owners does brand new Prime, Tokyo Prime residence. It's like a bond. I mean, these are, you know, very, very good assets. They offer kind of several hundred basis points pickup over financing, over JGBs, very attractive to investors. So it turned out that what we started, we thought was going to be a small light, small institutional investor business. We realized it was a massive institutional investor demand for it.
So but, and so we end up kind of going, as it stated here, last year, 75% was going to institutional investors, and what's we've done since then is we're building out, particularly the Ichigo Residence Tokens business, which is now, was 34% in the last year, and that is, digital real estate securities on the blockchain, backed by hard assets, specifically our real estate asset managed by us. This is a really interesting business. It offers kind of REIT-like returns to individual investors, not within the REIT structure, but in the digital security token structure. What's interesting about that, it's a brand new market segment. Our REIT investors scale towards people in the fifties and sixties and seventies with a lot of money in Japan.
What's interesting about the STO, security token business, is it's primarily much younger, twenties and thirties, gives heavy demand, but it's a brand new market opportunity, and we're delivering real value. I'm not gonna... Hopefully, it's not a political statement about crypto. Don't know. You know, these are not asset-backed securities or kind of crypto assets, but in the case of these assets, they exist on blockchain, but they're real. This is, again, super prime, brand-new real estate is primarily what we're doing, and they're very wrapped in a highly accessible, real-time, kind of do it on your phone, small lot purchasing platform that is proving to be very, very compelling for a much younger investor class.
We continue to work on behalf of not just these shareholders of this company, Ichigo 233 7. We work for all of our shareholders, and that includes the REITs, Ichigo Office, Ichigo Hotel, and of course, our solar power infrastructure fund, which is called Ichigo Green. And what we do is we work on adding value. So, again, I'm not going to go into a lot of detail, but we've done a number of things to support the growth of REITs, and we'll continue to do so. We brought our second-largest Ichigo solar power plant online just in the last few months. This is a business that we want to continue to grow. We've shifted from primarily FIT to so feed-in tariff to non-FIT. As you can see, we'll go to the next page.
That we're going to see growth. In the fifth part of the business is gonna be green biomass, where we're doing purely domestic biomass. It actually is green, which is to say, we take the view that most biomass is not green and is truly not sustainable. And you're, like, chopping down forests in the Southeast United States and shipping pellets all over the world. We don't understand how anyone thinks that's good for the planet. It is the case, however, in the, in Japan, the Japanese forests are dying. They literally are dying out because there's no ability to finance in a sustainable way, to taking care of the forest, forest conservation. So by going in and creating purely domestic green biomass problem, we actually can solve for the problem of dying forests.
We can therefore increase oxygen generation and CO2 absorption. That's really very fundamental to the biomass activity that is underway. And we're also moving into non-FIT solar power. There is massive demand among, if I can put it this way, right-thinking citizens and companies who understand that that climate change is real. We need to do something different than fossil fuels. And so the ability to sell through long-term contracts, these are not FIT contracts under a Japanese regulatory framework. They're actually just private contracts with companies who want to buy renewable power, and that's something we expect to grow fairly substantially. We have done seven years straight of buybacks. During the kind of even during the difficult period, we thought the stock was our shares were very cheap. We continue to think so.
Result is we bought in a huge amount of our stock at very good levels, and we're gonna cancel 12% of them at the end of this month. We have now that that EPS growth is real. Those shares are not coming back at you. And again, this is what it looks like. We'll go to the next page. We have raised our dividend. Look, I mean, it's we have dividend. If the shares aren't valued, we think it's a better idea to be buying back the stock, which is why you're seeing more activity in terms of share buybacks. Then again, you know, there's something about having a robust and growing dividend. And so we think, given the significant cash generation, and this is we're able to build.
As you know, we are a top sponsor of the J.League. It is, if you turn on any J.League match, you see, you see Ichigo all over the stadium. It's been very good for our brand. We've also. It represents our values. We work for our shareholders. Classically, companies, when they get all these tickets because they're a J.League top sponsor, they give them to, I don't know, they give them to their, to the friends and neighbors and people in the company. We give these tickets to our shareholders. We work for you. Now, this company belongs to our shareholders, and so we're the first company in Japan to do this sort of activity on behalf of our shareholders. As the previous slide said, we're working to protect our global environment. Climate change is real.
Ichigo is climate positive and will be so substantially into the future. And this is what kind of shows in terms of the growth of our CO2 reduction activity, meaning we're switching off of fossil fuels as we build out our solar and wind power production. And of course, we're reducing our total CO2 consumption by doing everything we can to reduce our energy consumption. At this point, 90% of our assets are switched over to renewable energy, and we expect to get to 100% over the next year or so. We ranked number one in the Nikkei GX 500 ranking. So GX stands for Green Transformation in two different categories, emissions management and reduction and information disclosure.
The first one is obviously super, super important. The second one talks about our transparency in doing so. We think this is accurate. We are tenaciously focused on delivering the right thing, not only for the shareholders, but for the world. We also are recognized as CDP at the leadership level in multiple categories. This is a global assessment, and Ichigo does, as you can expect, very well on this. We have done things on net zero energy buildings. And what's interesting about this is typically, ZEB, this is like you build a brand-new building, and you design for it from the very beginning. It's actually much, much harder to take an existing building and ZEB it, and that's something we've been working on.
This is one of our buildings that has qualified for the ZEB oriented certification. Let me talk about the forecast. And probably what's most important to speak to here is, I can't remember the exact word I used. Something about spectacularly great or fantastically great or screamingly great is our current business environment. It's probably not as easy to see. Remember, the key metrics for us are all-in operating profit and cash EPS growth, and all-in OP is gonna... We're guiding up 13% year-on-year in cash EPS, up 7. So okay, I mean, that's okay. I mean, it's not super fantastic at all. But it's important to understand, we actually generated JPY 4 billion of one-off gains on selling our non-core self-storage business over the last year.
So All-In OP on an ongoing basis, last year was JPY 17 billion, not JPY 21 billion. And when that goes up to JPY 24 billion, what we're telling you is we expect to see 40% growth in All-In OP this year. So the business environment is very strong. Our ability to deliver value in that environment is the best it's ever been. Things are really good. And so we, you know, words are cheap, talk is cheap. We expect to deliver on that for you this year and going forward. Segment breakdown, we have asset management up 17%, sustainable real estate up 14%. Again, that that's even with the drop-off of the self-storage, which was within the sustainable real estate part of the business, and with clean energy up 8%.
The SRE stock earnings says hotel growth. I think that's... Well, if I had to rewrite that one again, it's both hotel and office growth. The Japan has a very different office environment than, for example, the United States. I mean, in Japan and Asia. The ability to get to work inexpensively. I mean, we think there are structural reasons for that, which is a way of saying that, you know, the US office market and to a large extent, the European office market very different from Japan and Asia. There's been devastation in the US and European markets. People are not going to work. They don't want to go to work. You know, we think, I'm not going to spend too much time on it, but some of these elements are structural. In Japan's case-...
You can get to work generally for something like $2-$4. It's very inexpensive. People are not going in cars. There's no parking costs. Transport is very efficient, it's very fast, it's clean and safe. You're on your smartphone most of the time anyway, while you're on, while you're doing your average commute of 45 minutes, you're getting 30 minutes of work, whatever you wanna do as part of that process. So this is a very, very. And Japanese, you know, homes are small, so the ability to go to work can be a much larger environment, to get in the small. You don't have... You know, you go to, you go to the office, you get very expensive, incredibly delicious food.
There's a way of saying it, the costs are lower and the benefits are higher of going to work in Japan. That has resulted in an office market which is robust, very robust, despite everything that's happened with COVID. And in fact, ongoing, expanded demand, and we've talked about this, secular demand for office space as companies, compete for talent and wanna have more office space per worker to keep that talent, attract and keep that talent, means that the office market is growing very well. I think that was my final slide. No, I'm wrong. I think this may be the final slide. So, we expect record stock earnings this year. We expect to have, you know, a very strong year, and we'll see if we can beat these numbers.
Oh, I'm totally wrong, because I—we need to talk about updated KPIs. So, going to the KPI update summary, let's jump to the next page. We've introduced a few new KPIs. We're focused on high capital efficiency and high cash flow generation. When we put this together, these original KPIs in 2019, we didn't have a cash flow as a metric that we're measuring ourselves to do, to. We do now. So we expect ROE to be above 50%. We're below that right now. And we expect cash ROE to be up 18%, and we're below that also right now, by just a little bit. We expect to get above that. We added a new KPI for earnings stability.
It's one we've been tracking for years, but again, we think we should be explicit about the KPI that you should measure us on. Stock earnings, fixed expense ratios, we expect to keep over 200%. In terms of shareholder distribution policy, it's about growth, durability, and certainty. As you know, we have a progressive dividend policy. It means that we maintain and raise our dividend, we don't cut it. We don't have a dividend payout ratio, which is super volatile or can be super volatile based on what's happening with short-term earnings volatility. Companies, therefore, generally don't want to move the dividend around, and so you don't really know what's gonna happen with the dividend. We think it's a much better idea to be transparent about what you're gonna deliver.
We've increased our payout ratio from 3%, DOE, dividend on equity, to 4%. Therefore, you see an increase in our dividend payout ratio, and we continue to use, share, share buybacks. In terms of, additional KPIs, we added, KPIs with respect to sustainability, and it's what I touched upon earlier, into a climate positive, RE100 and CDP leadership. And at this point, I actually think we are done with the presentation. Thank you very much. I will now turn to a question and answer or any comments and feedback. We certainly welcome that. We, we work for all of you. Any questions or comments from anybody? Will, do you have a question? Sorry, it took us a while to figure this one out. Can you hear me?
Yeah. Can you hear me?
We can hear you great, Will. Thanks for joining.
Yeah, likewise. Thank you for the presentation. Yeah, two quick ones.
Okay.
On the income statement-
Yeah.
-and the extraordinary losses, there's a JPY 1 billion provision for-
Yeah.
-doubtful accounts.
Yeah.
That was a larger... About JPY 1 billion. Last year's looks like it was 0.1 or so. So can you-
Uh
... explain, you know, what that... I don't, you know, what, what kind of receivable was that? Was that part of exiting one of your businesses, or is that part of your-
It was
-ongoing divisions? And can you just give some color on that? And that's question one. And then question two is, I've, you maybe explained this before, and I'm sorry if I've forgotten, but in your balance of unrealized gains, the JPY 72 billion-
Yeah. Yeah.
Does that include your valuation of your energy business, your renewables?
No, it doesn't. So, that would be another source of significant value, and thank you for pointing that out. So, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off.
Nope, those are the first two.
Yeah.
I might have more, but let's go with those two.
Yeah. So the JPY 1 billion, which is what? About $7 million write off, was writing off. It was basically a flurry of activity on our part in relatively small scale. I think all in it was probably like $30 million-$40 million of investments in various kind of interesting, new, new ventures that were not kind of central to our, our business, but we think were additive, and this one was in the agricultural space. And the most of the business did not work out. It was a humbling and very powerful reminder to stick to your knitting. Now, of course, part of the reason why, you know, we signed off on this activity as a board, is like: Okay, it looks really interesting. Let's see if we can extend Ichigo into these new areas.
For example, agriculture is a very big market. But it didn't work out, and so this was kind of, I think, actually the final last write-down of an agriculture-related activity, and it's actually a relatively active institution that's out there, so I'm not gonna use the name, but that we wrote down. So stick to the knitting, do what you do really, really well. That's what it is.
Okay, so it's non-core, and we don't expect that to happen in-
Nope
... other businesses.
Yeah.
Okay. And then, if you had to guess, what's the unrealized gain, sort of, versus book, in your renewables business?
... Oh, I have to guess. What's our carrying value on this? I need to look at. Forgive me, I'm gonna pull up.
While you're thinking about that, I know I've asked this, and I know you've responded, so I don't expect any changes, but-
Yeah, yeah.
What won't that, if that is a considerable level or amount of value, wouldn't it make sense at some point to either drop down some more into the Ichigo Green REIT or sell to-
Yeah
... a third-party investor and, you know, as part of your sustainable real estate, asset sales business, generate some of that from time to time? Any comment on that as well?
Yeah. So look, the carrying value, and you can see this on the balance sheet for our clean energy assets, so this is solar and wind, is currently at about JPY 30 billion. So $200 million. Look, that's probably worth... And we can kick around what that number is, but it's, is it worth JPY 60 billion? Is it worth JPY 90 billion? There's, there's a lot of unrealized gains there. So, makes, you know, it, it, it, it's, it's, it is very valuable. Don't think that rolling it into Ichigo Green, the infrastructure fund, is the right market. It doesn't seem to have kind of the pricing power and its current valuation to justify it. But, but look, I, you know, I, I, I like your thinking.
This is a worthy debate, and it is a debate, and your input and everybody's input is valuable. And I've talked to our shareholders about this, and I'll continue to do this all the time, as to whether or not people find this business sitting within Ichigo 2337 as being more valuable than spinning it out. And it's something that we constantly look at as to whether or not, you know, where it should be. But yeah, there is substantial value there, and if you include that, I told you we're at 0.85 NAV. If you include that, we're probably more at a 0.7 or 0.65 NAV. So, again, we're quiet.
Okay. Thank you.
Thank you. Somebody needs to allow-
Hello.
Greg. Hey, Greg. Hi, thanks for joining.
Hi, Scott. Thanks for the call. Thanks for, thanks for the presentation. I'm gonna ask the usual question on Tradepia Odaiba.
Yeah, yeah.
So, you've managed to exceed your, you know, 80% occupancy forecast, so that's great.
Yeah.
I was wondering, can you give us a bit of color on the rents you managed to achieve? And then, you know, the follow-up question to that is, you know, you've managed to repopulate the building, you've adapted it to more like SMEs. Kind of what's next, so to speak?
Yeah.
Thank you.
So we're taking rents down about 10% relative to where they were, pre-COVID, which is fine. It was very important to fill the building. Look, I think the direction on this is the direction that we have with any asset. We're gonna sell this at some point, right? It seemed like to be a bad idea to try to sell it at 50% occupancy or even 73. But the good news is we've done a bunch of work to demonstrate the attractiveness of the asset. We are ramping up occupancy, and so that creates the conditions for us to move on. And I think we move on in the context of a general approach to slimming the balance sheet and also a hard lesson learned.
You know, the thing about this asset, and it's big, its book value is about JPY 30 billion, so it's, what, 15% of our total real estate assets, is that we've learned that large buildings are just much more difficult. Bigger tenants, concentration risk, you know, it's just so striking how Odaiba, Tradepia Odaiba occupancy halved during COVID, and our average kind of smaller, which we tend to do, small, mid-size office building occupancy went from literally 99% - 95%. I mean, that's it. Much of that was kind of first-floor retail tenant that was punched in the face by COVID. So, you know, the firm does experiment and do new things, it doesn't do it in a reckless way.
You know, we tend to be careful about how we kind of about change and risk. And we looked at, this was our one experiment in can we do something big? I'm very confident we will sell the asset at, more than what we paid for it. It will generate capital gains, but, you know, we are looking at what the end game looks like on this, probably, you know, I don't know, next 24 months, something like that.
Great. Thanks so much.
Thank you. Okay, I think we're done. Thank you, everybody. I really appreciate your time. We work for you. We will run forward. As I say, it's an extraordinary environment right now. The operating environment is great, the set of capabilities we have continue to be deeply relevant, and so we expect to deliver record earnings and hopefully a record share price for you, as we move forward. Thank you, everybody. Have a good day. Good morning, afternoon, and evening.