Thank you very much. Good afternoon, I am Kasumi. Thank you very much indeed for joining us in this online briefing session. Last week we announced the financial results of the last fiscal year and the forecast for this fiscal year. So today I'd like to explain what Panasonic Group will work on during the last year of medium term strategy. First of all.
In the final year of the midterm management strategy, I'd like to first go through the current position. Looking at the management indicators and KGIs. We are likely to achieve the cumulative operating cash flow goal, but the ROE and cumulative OP are expected to be unachieved. Although the management emphasizing the cash flows has taken root, profitability of each business have not reached our expectations.
Due to unexpected market changes, mainly in automotive battery and air-to-water, which are included in our investment areas. Those were far from the goals, and also the businesses which were expected to help the group-wide profitability did not reach the expected level partly due to the market changes. In terms of the competitiveness enhancement, I regard this situation with a sense of crisis as we have not yet met the expectations of the shareholders, including stakeholders, including shareholders and investors. In order to change this, I am determined to take the initiatives to improve the profitability. First of all, to strengthen the business foundations of the investment areas. Second, and in automotive batteries and air quality and air conditioning, the speed of the market growth will be slower than expected, but will definitely grow.
So the timing and amount of the investments for growth will be decided flexibly to respond to the market and customer trends. But we would further accelerate the competitiveness enhancement. As for the supply chain management software, under the CEO Duncan Angove, we are having the DX transformation. So this will be carried out steadily and we will complete the preparation for the innovation and future growth. The second is business portfolio management and financial strategy started last year. We will rigorously manage each business based on the growth potential and capital efficiency and resolve issues from all businesses and build a solid base for profitability that can meet the shareholder expectations. The third is the continuing enhancement of the group-wide management structure to strengthen basic capability of competitiveness of each business. This will continue in the long term, not for the single year.
Today I would explain the human capital management, operational frontline innovation and PX.
First of all, strengthening the business foundation of the investment areas.
This explains the market changes in automotive battery business identified as a priority investment area. The global battery EV or BEV market has changed significantly over the past year. We think for the long term perspective, the electrification of the mobility will progress however, in North America market where we focus, car manufacturers who once drastically change their direction to BEV change their lineup expansion strategy based on the customer needs is an announced full roster of HEV and plug-in EV models.
Therefore, we think that the BEV ratio in 2030 may be lower and the pace of shift to BEV seems slowing down right now and one factor of this is the cost of the batteries which account for a large part of the vehicle. Costs have not become suitable for EVs in affordable price range. Also insufficient development of the infrastructure for BEV energy supply, more specifically the deployment of the charging stations which have not yet caught up with demand. Moreover, the U.S. EPA has gradually eased the GHG emission standards by 2032. Also in March 24th the EPA announced a scenario for achieving CO2 reduction with various technologies such as PHEV.
As for the trend for battery types going forward, the adoption of the iron phosphate based prismatic batteries or LFP is expected to increase for BEV models focusing on safety features and cost, which has been seen in the other global market. On the other hand, the adoption of nickel based cylindrical batteries in which we have advantage is also expected to increase for BEV models.
Which require the longer range capability. This is due to the development of energy density while ensuring safety. In the midst of these changes in March 2024, to build a strong competitive business foundation, we signed a basic cooperative agreement with Subaru covering the supply of automotive batteries and signed agreement with Mazda for the supply of batteries. In preparation, we are planning to transform our factory operations in Japan mainly for Osaka factory and expand the production capacity. In addition, we continue to expand our supply basis for the customers who adopt cylindrical batteries including supply for Lucid Luxury EVs and Hexagon Purus, the commercial vehicles which we announced in 2023. We are also working to improve the profitability through improvement in productivity at each factory.
At Nevada factory in North America, we aim to increase the production capacity by over 15% in fiscal 2030-2031 compared to fiscal 2024. Also at the Kansas factory which is currently under construction, we aim to improve the labor productivity by over 30%. The construction of the Kansas factory is steadily progressing toward the start of the mass production plan for this fiscal year and in the stage of bringing in the equipment. At Osaka factory, we aim to improve labor productivity by over 35% in fiscal 2029 compared with FY 2023 through the realignment of the floor arrangement of entire lines and further introduction of labor saving initiatives. As for evolution of technological foundations, we will start to operate R&D facility in Kadoma and manufacturing development facility in Suminoe which we announced in 2023.
With these new facilities, we will accelerate the development of next generation cells, productivity improvement and capacity expansion. As for 4680 cells with high-energy, high-density technologies, development is progressing as planned and the mass production is expected to start in Q2 of fiscal 2025 at Wakayama factory. The introduction of 4680 cells will help us build a strong competitive foundation. Through those initiatives, we will build a management structure in the automotive battery business and to ensure sustainable double digit ROIC including IRA from fiscal 2028 and onward and we would make decisions on the investment strategy in the future flexibly and judiciously according to the customer demand. Now moving on to the air quality and air conditioning, we explained the growth background of air to water last year, but the market environment has significantly changed.
The gas prices have normalized and subsidies priority have been revised and the European economy has been sluggish and because of the market condition as a whole has been sluggish and we are not seeing the good growth as we expected. But based on the stagnation right now we have no choice but to change the original plan. But the environmental issues are not something that we can avoid. So in the medium to long term we believe that the demand would expand and looking at the macroeconomic trend with the consumer spending likely to recover with the lower interest rate and we also expect enhancement of the regulation of the gas boilers and we expect that we go back to the growth trajectory while market stagnates.
We will take steady initiatives to increase the market share so that we can build a superior market position in this business as they are not a predominant player right now. So how do we intend to expand the market share of air to water? In addition to being accepted by the end users, we also need to convince the installers to want to introduce our products. So we would collaborate with the energy providers and utility companies so that we can increase the business partnership with installers and to improve their businesses.
For example, we will be providing the predictive maintenance and breakdown services, and also, to make sure that we have the business opportunities, we will provide loan scheme as well as subscription models, and in terms of improving the product competitiveness, we would also focus on the industry-leading compact size for the condominiums and light commercials and.
To promote this compact size which is 70% of the original size and through the partnership with Innova, we would try to provide optimum indoor air quality including air conditioner, ventilation and dehumidification. With tado°, we would also work with them to introduce a smart thermostat and as demand stagnates, in addition to enhancing the product value for end users, we aim to provide higher value to installers so that they would choose our products and also with tado°, we will try to reduce the energy cost by more than 30%. Let me now talk about supply chain management software under the new CEO of Mr. Duncan Angove who became the CEO in fiscal 2023. We continue to promote the transformation and the first version of the native SaaS product was launched last year to enhance customer contact.
We are working with, for example, the Snowflake to provide the Blue Yonder solutions to the customers and also doing the joint marketing with Accenture and increased marketing and sales personnel at the front line of the Blue Yonder by 50% and also the Blue Yonder acquired the Doddle for return management and flexis for the planning and we started to see some synergies between the Blue Yonder and Panasonic being generated. We implemented the Yard Management Solution for Penske Logistics combining Panasonic Connect, strength in frontline edge devices and Blue Yonder solutions and we in collaboration with Rapyuta Robotics, warehouse efficiency and combining with the Blue Yonder solutions, we will continue to generate the synergies. At the end of last financial fiscal year, Blue Yonder acquired One Network to achieve overwhelming competitive advantage.
The company provides solutions to share, visualize and utilize the demand, sales, logistics and inventory information real time on a single network for multiple supply chain related companies. By unifying the Blue Yonder solution for highly accurate total optimization and One Network's information sharing platform, it is possible to provide supply chain wide optimization solution in real time. We aim for growth as a provider that can offer SCM platform with real time and multi tier orchestration capability.
Next I will explain our business portfolio management and financial policy.
I explained our philosophy on business portfolio management in the group strategy briefing last year. The first is the relevance to group-wide commerce strategy. Panasonic Group will be making both contributions to global environment and lifestyle contributions to each customer's lifelong health, safety and comfort whether each business can continue to make contributions. This is the first criterion. Second criterion is market position and competitiveness to make assessment on market growth, potential, sustainability, position of business, profitability, access, scalability both quantitatively and qualitatively. Last year I also explained that revision or replacement of business portfolio is just a means. Our aim is to continue providing all stakeholders including shareholders, customers, business partners and employees with benefits.
In order to make assessment from that perspective, we added the third criterion which is best ownership perspective. More specifically, whether holdings can take necessary actions on business. Most important issue, whether holdings can make necessary growth investment if the business needs more cash than it can generate and whether holdings can evaluate the business's quality and competence.
With this thinking, I committed to set the direction of the revision of business portfolio and execute the decisions during the previous fiscal year, and one case is the automotive business which was already announced. I would like to explain to you about this case.
The automobile industry is facing the biggest transition in its 100-year history with CASE. In order to survive in the area of cockpit high-performance computer, HPC and EVPA electronics, our automotive business main area, a large-scale R&D investment is needed to respond to the shift of electrification and software-defined vehicles.
On the other hand, from best ownership perspective that I explained earlier, we came to the conclusion that we alone cannot make sufficient investment and that we need to tap on capabilities from outside. We considered this matter based upon this judgment and we were able to welcome Apollo, one of the largest funds in the world, as our new partner. With this partnership, we'll be able to utilize Apollo's information network, M and A capabilities and human resources for management.
We will have a big opportunity to make a big leap forward as a global top player. We judged that this will benefit our customers and employees.
Apollo agrees for us to maintain a basic management policy, to maintain and strengthen relationships with the existing customers, and to maintain Panasonic brand.
Relationship between Panasonic Automotive and Panasonic Holdings will change from parent child relationship to independent collaborative relationship. PAs will be unrivaled in making contributions as a member of the Panasonic Group. In order to further revise the portfolio, Panasonic Holdings has to rigorously manage the market position and competitiveness at each business. Under the current midterm strategy, we assessed financial soundness of each operating company based upon net debt, EBITDA ratio and established cash flows management.
From this fiscal year. In addition to cash, we will strictly manage return on invested capital ROIC to establish a strong financial and profitability structure on business division basis. To be more specific, if a business growth is negative and ROIC is less than WACC by business, the business will be categorized as business with issues and to either improve ROIC by themselves or drastic measures will be executed such as business transfer or withdrawal. The number of businesses with issues is to reach zero by the end of FY March 2027 and we aim for all businesses to have ROIC level exceeding WACC by business +3 percentage points. As a last part of financial strategy, I explain our capital allocation policy. There's no major change from the announcement we made last year.
On the cash flow generation side, it is proceeding smoothly at about 2/3 vis-à-vis cumulative operating cash flow or JPY 2.0 trillion after passage of two years. On the allocation side, we are planning to allocate JPY 0.6 trillion as strategic investment to automotive battery business. We will make investment decisions, looking at the trend of the EV market that I explained earlier. We are planning dividends of JPY 0.2 trillion yen in addition to stable and continuous payment of dividends. This will reward shareholders by improving corporate value. We will be promoting group management based upon this policy.
Lastly, I will explain our initiatives to enhance management structure of the group.
Let me explain Panasonic Group Human Capital Management.
The words of our founder, a company that develops people before making products, are the basis of our thinking in order to realize an ideal society with affluence both in matter and mind, which is a mission of the group. Implementation of basic business philosophy by everyone is ensured. This is Panasonic Group's human capital management. Also, we formulated Panasonic Leadership Principles in April last year as a common guideline of conduct of the group to implement basic business principles.
Next, I will explain key measures of human capital management in order to realize employees' well-being. We are accelerating initiatives from the perspectives of a sense of fulfillment, individuality, and work in a safe, secure, and healthy state as an example of work together by giving full play of all individuals with introduced diversity target to realize an organization with diversity. Also, for implementation of basic business philosophy, PLP is incorporated in each measure of HR management. Also, PLP-based 360-degree assessment is applied to management and business heads. We enhance employee well-being and implement basic business policy as Panasonic Group. Each operating company strongly implements its HR measures which are suitable for their business characteristics. As one example, I'll introduce the case of Panasonic Industry. Panasonic Industry has introduced a job-based HR management system clarifying roles and requirements based upon defined roles and requirements.
They introduced a voluntary-based open transfer system to support autonomous career development of each employee. In addition to the conventional system of staff-level positions, openings for management, managerial, and higher-level positions are also subject to open recruitment within the company. Over 1,000 transfers have been conducted since the introduction of the system in November 2022. Also in terms of evaluation and reward, the new system expands career options of individual. The conventional system places emphasis on managerial positions, but the new system provides appropriate reward for specialists who may prefer pursuing their expertise to become managers. Going forward, we will place emphasis on changing the mindset of each employee. In particular, middle management are the connection between management and people. They must deeply understand that human capital is an important management capital.
Through a reward, renewed understanding of HR management and shift in the behavior of middle management, we aim to influence the behavior of all employees. These initiatives will be shared as a precedent toward unlocking employees' capabilities and potential, implementing group-wide human capital management, encouraging employees taking up challenges.
Next is operational frontline innovations. We are working to thoroughly eliminate waste and stagnation in order to acquire outstanding operational capabilities by each business. This activity was started in 2022. A corporate culture encouraging challenging theoretical limits is taking root. Specifically, more than half of the global sites, 124 sites, have embedded constant Kaizen activities with initiatives of each one on the front line in two years. As a result, lead time was reduced through streamlining of overall supply chain leading to cash generation of JPY 23 billion. Cost reduction through streamlining of engineering led to profit contribution of JPY 28.7 billion. Tools were developed with image recognition and AI technologies to visualize waste and stagnation which lead to Kaizen and streamlining. Also, streamlined data of the front lines are visualized enabling swift decision making. We will accelerate these activities and with operational frontline innovations.
We aim to embed constant Kaizen activities at all sites by the end of fiscal year March 25th. Next, I would like to talk about digital transformation. We started the PX project in 2021 Panasonic Transformation which includes cultural transformation that is change of work style and mindset. First in development out of DXO development, manufacturing and sales smart lab for example full automation of materials development lab was implemented from this year by combining generations of.
Experimental plan by AI and Material Informatics development which had been dependent upon engineers. R&D became much more sophisticated and development time was significantly reduced. This enabled remote development and enhanced the motivation of engineers. Next is manufacturing sales. Integrated ERP was introduced in 15 sites in China. Inventory reduction and shortening of lead time was realized based upon accurate information with no human involvement. Panasonic generative AI was introduced in July. The understanding and instilling of AI with employees' mindset is changing. There is a conversion of the work style improving the efficiency for simple repetitive work by using generative AI and employees are able to focus more on works which generate value for customers. Our goal is continuous transformation. We'll continue to strongly promote PX.
Lastly, this is a summary today for group-wide investment areas. We will expand market share and improve profitability in preparation for expected market expansion. We aim to maximize our ability to secure profit in the expanded market. Our business is expected to help group-wide profitability. We will implement through ROIC discipline to improve profitability and aim to reach zero number of businesses with issues by the end of fiscal year March 2027. I take the views from the capital market seriously and I'm determined to transform profitability structure toward medium- to long-term growth. This concludes my presentation. Thank you very much for your attention.
From Toyo Keizai, we have Maneki-san
Thank you. My name is Maneki of Toyo Keizai. I'd like to ask my first question. Page 5, Automotive Battery, the domestic production capacity is mentioned here. So here the pie is growing quite a bit. So in Japan, the new plant, is that something that you plan to build? That's my first question.
Concerning that. As of now.
I cannot tell you where and when but the car manufacturers in Japan, through the discussion with them, for example, in Suminoe or outside of Suminoe, when the volume increases, where do we manufacture? So that is something that we would decide depending on the discussion that we have with our customers.
My second question on page 13, the revision by business division. So how do you plan to do this? Is this something that the holding would do or operating companies would be doing?
Or both?
Could you talk about how you proceed?
Well, concerning that, the ROIC-based discipline by business division. Is that what you are asking?
Yes, that's right.
Well, primarily the businesses with issues so the ROIC becoming lower than WACC by business. So first of all, the operating company will try to consider that. But when the target of the ROIC plus 3 percentage points that is a kind of rule and if you cannot exceed that or in the first year, the operating company will try to improve the.
Level, but then if that continues, the holding will start to get involved. So that is the internal system that we are building so that we can focus on this.
Okay, thank you very much.
Thank you. Next question. Nakano-san from Nihon Keizai Shimbun please.
Nakano-san from Nihon Keizai Shimbun can you hear me?
Yes we can
My first question. The initial page.
The businesses which have to support business. More specifically, what are these businesses and how are you going to.
Deal with these businesses? Once again, the businesses which are expected help group-wide profitability.
Basically as holding.
Three businesses which will grow.
Other than these three. Basically these need group support for the group-wide profitability on the operating company basis. For example, ROIC targeting ROIC WACC plus 3% exceeding WACC plus 3% on the divisional company basis. But when it comes to divisional companies, not necessarily the case. So these businesses have to be. The number of these companies needs to be reduced to zero. That is how you can interpret this.
Thank you very much. One more question.
Best ownership perspective. What is the speed? I would like to ask you already Automotive Systems best ownership and you made a decision that it goes outside and then next going forward, how. How are you going to do the business structure transformation? Are you going to take other measures? And do you have the timeline? For example, in this fiscal year, what is your thinking? Can you please enlighten me on that?
Always, I am not able to come up with a clear-cut answer. Sorry, but doing this.
will require. Well, if I come up with specific names then internally there will be considerable confusion. So thirdly, preparation has to be made before we come up with any specific name. This business or we cannot cite any concrete name of the business. But on the operating company basis.
Automotive as a whole, the industry is moving in this direction and we made a decision. But what we are going to consider going forward, it could be business unit or divisions or the businesses. Then.
On the operating companies level.
There are things that they are examining and this fiscal year there may be something that we might be able to share with you. But in addition.
As holding we look from the perspective of ROIC. How do we compare against the competition? We are going to assess this with a very strict perspective and make necessary decisions.
Next is Bloomberg. We have Furukawa san.
Thank you. Furukawa from Bloomberg. I hope you can hear me. Yes, I have two questions, please. First, page five. The automotive battery. So as of now, the ROIC. What is the current level of ROIC including IRA and excluding IRA? Could you tell us those numbers? And once again about the automotive battery business, this use of the ROIC. What is the purpose of using the ROIC as goal or target? That's my first question.
Yes, about the automotive batteries.
As I mentioned.
After 28 we'd like to have a double-digit ROIC on invested capital. The denominator currently is quite big.
In addition, the EV demand structure is such that the ROIC is coming down.
So in that sense, as I said, the domestic business reform, productivity improvement and North American business.
Right now, the plant in Nevada, the profitability is strong. But as we start up the plant in Kansas, there will be a lot of investment there. So fiscal 2025 and toward the end we will start the mass production. So from fiscal 2027 we expect to see some revenues coming in. So that's why I said that the fiscal 2028 and almost and also in Japan and plant in Japan, the Japanese car manufacturing, the demand is likely to expand and that would be happening at about the same timing. So that's how we hope you will understand.
Thank you. My second question may be a similar question to the previous question. But as of now.
The businesses with issues. If you have any specific businesses with issues as of now, and how many of them are there?
Again, specifically to talk about the businesses with the issues, I have not talked about that internally. So if I mention any, that would lead to confusion. But there are several factors right now. For example, the business is affected by the market conditions or the businesses. The enhancement of the competitiveness and cost capability being delayed in some of the businesses or business structure itself probably is not sufficient. So there are different factors. So first of all, the market impact, for example, is on the factory automation and in terms of the competitiveness and the cost capability and reform or transformation is being delayed. Or in that sense, the lifestyle appliance, some of the businesses and also the air conditioning and air quality, air to air related business. So as industry as a whole, I'm sure interested that the TV business is a tough business.
I cannot really mention the specific businesses, but I think you will be able to speculate based on those factors, U.S.
Thank you very much.
Thank you. Next.
Sato-san from Nikkei Asia, please.
Sato from Nikkei Asia, can you hear me?
Yes, we can.
Thank you. I have two questions, if I may. My first question is about the business of automotive battery.
He was not achieved. Of course, there was deterioration of the market, but.
Compared to the forecast, there was a difference from the forecast. What are the reasons you should have improved productivity, but the productivity did not go up as much as expected, or your forecast of the market was too optimistic?
Or.
You should have known the diversity of the diversification of the customer, but you are not able to do so. What are the challenges that you should overcome?
Now, if I'm to talk about the major points.
Productivity improvement. Nevada factory productivity improvement has gone up, proceeded more than expected. The largest is producing in Japan and supply to strategic partners the batteries that we are supplying. There was a big drop in demand, unexpected drop in demand.
I went to the United States and I met with the president of that company. And because of the reason and this model, they say that they do not want to sell. Now, this was unexpected. So if I dare say the true intention of the customers, we are not able to hear the true intention of the customers. We have to reflect upon that. Then from FY27 onwards the quantity to be manufactured in Japan.
For Japanese OEMs. Do we wait until the demand for Japanese OEM will pick up?
Resources in Japan and the surplus capacity in Japan?
Improvement of Nevada is hard and we have been using that for Nevada but it hasn't taken root. Are we going to maintain the.
Capacity in Japan? For example, during COVID-19, airline companies.
Made contribution outside their companies.
Rather than staying idle, they were working outside their realm. We look at them and considering utilization of the capabilities that we have at hand.
Thank you. I confirm.
You met with the president of the strategic partner company last year. Is that what you said?
Yes, that's what I said.
I understand. Thank you. My next question, Businesses with challenges.
This is rather rough summary but this will be the reserve for finding best owner. Is that the positioning or that is not the case but forward looking positive.
Improvement of the business. Is that what you intend to do? How you categorize them?
Thank you for your question. Businesses with issues, there are different factors for issues that they are faced with. I always say in the same industry compared to peers structurally, business structure-wise there are factors that we are going to be behind the peers. Then we have to take some.
And continuous measures. If that is not the case, then it is a management permit. So what are the reasons for the poor management? Is that the management people who are the factors? We have to make that clear and then take necessary measures. Thank you very much.
We are running out of time for the questions and answers from the journalists. Oh, sorry. We can take one more question from journalist.
So from Nikkan Kogyo Shimbun we have Morishita-san.
Thank you. This is Morishita of Nikkan Kogyo Shimbun.
Thank you. I have two questions. First of all about the automotive batteries. Kind of a basic question if I may.
In fiscal 2028, you mentioned that you want to have a sustainable double-digit ROIC. How is IRA related to that? More specifically, fiscal 2025 in adjusted op. How would that be related to the ROIC?
The double-digit could be many things, including IRA. First of all, 10% or higher, and we of course do not think that 10% will be sufficient. For example, if the U.S. administration changes, the IRA is likely to last for some time to come, but they could be gone after some time. That is being talked about. At least.
Even without the IRA, we want to achieve the ROIC goal or target that we are trying to achieve right now, so that's what we mean.
Thank you very much. Also related, another question. You earlier mentioned that the U.S. Presidential election is coming and as you said.
Depending on how it goes, the IRA could be reviewed or revisited. So what is your view on that?
Thank you.
There are a lot of speculations going on so I really cannot make any definite comments. But according to many people.
This is a legislation which is being adopted.
Of course that there could be a presidential order or executive order. We understand that the IRA will not be terminated right away. What would happen at the Senate or Congress, depending on how it goes, the result could change. We have to really prepare ourselves for the different developments. What is often said is that for maybe three years this is likely to continue as a system or scheme. Probably that's the kind of expectations that we should have. Thank you very much.
Thank you. This concludes the Q and A session for journalist .
Now we'll have Q&A session from institutional investors and analysts, if you have any. We only entertain questions for Japanese channel.
Now we entertain questions.
Okazaki San from Nomura Securities, please.
Thank you. Okazaki from Nomura Securities. I have one question.
You manage business by ROI. Can you explain?
I think that going forward each business unit will be strictly managed and as a result there was a case that you are not able to make sufficient investment that was needed this time. The holding, managing the businesses with ROIC uniformly and isn't there a case that what are you going to do to prevent a situation where necessary investments cannot be made as a result?
Now Okazaki San to begin with, from the beginning of the midterm strategy, three-year cumulative operating cash and ROIC are the indicators that you'll be looking at. For example, the person responsible for the operating company for short-term incentive, operating cash flow and ROIC are included.
Over the past three years, since after assuming the position, cash flow people started to be very aware of the cash flow. But just including into short term incentive alone will not result in enhanced awareness on the ROIC. They may be aware of the necessity of ROIC, but if you look at the result of each business then we cannot help but saying that they do not have sufficient awareness for the need of ROIC.
It's not just looking at ROI, but it's not that you should just blindly increase ROIC. Then can you say that you can just reduce invested capital? No, you have to have this comparable with growth. Then ROIC is low for this business. It's low ROIC. Then if the market is growing. But if the business is containing an investment and not growing, that should not be the case. ROIC has to be increased and the growth has to be pursued. What is the scenario for that business? We have dialogue with the operating companies in this way. So one year they raise ROIC. Well, that may be one way that we have to look at the growth. And this is a scenario and then you come up with a scenario. Then you have to do that and achieve the target. That's how we do it. Thank you very much.
Thank you. Next, from Mizuho Securities we have Nakane San.
Thank you. This is Nakane. Thank you very much for this opportunity. Maybe one or two questions first. As far as I heard, the basic strategy is not wrong, and that is your recognition, I think. But the profitability is not really increasing as you expected. So as you mentioned, there are things that are happening due to the environment or market conditions and also the mistakes on the part of the management team. Aside from those two reasons, the management team of the holdings company. Are there anything that you were wrong in making decisions on the holding side? If there are, how do you intend to improve them? That's my first question. Please.
Thank you very much. In that sense, my biggest regret is that operating cash flow and the ROIC. I said that we will look into this, but I think that operating cash flow or the cash flow based management.
To take root, it took a long time. So the ROIC was not something that we looked into thoroughly. So that was not sufficient. So that's one of the things that I regret myself. So before waiting for the next midterm management strategy, we would like to start looking into ROIC and how can we improve ROIC is something that.
We have been discussing and next Monday actually with the people responsible for each business, we would like to re-educate the importance of the ROIC.
I see, thank you. Another question.
As an extension of what I asked, the decision making process and the structure within the holding company, including people and the communication between the operating company and the holding company and decision making there and within the operating company?
I think that you are one of the outside directors, so I think that you have a right to get engaged. But, so from those three perspectives, I think that there could be some improvements, and if there are potential improvements, could you talk about them?
I am very sorry, but internally we are looking into various things and we are discussing them and part of it due to the deficiency of the structure, if there are any, we are discussing how to improve in the next management strategy. But I cannot really talk about that specifically at this moment but in any case.
What we start in this fiscal year is.
Within the range of what I talked about in the business divisions and other indicators. The holding company will be looking at those indicators and that's one of the changes and the operating companies but what they would discuss is that as of now, depending on the operating companies, there are some differences. So once again.
Having this type of a discussion in the BOD is something that the holding side would ask them to do. So we are looking into this from the different perspectives. Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you.
I'd like to move on to Ezawa-san from Citigroup Global Markets, please.
Thank you, Ezawa from Citigroup Global Markets. Two questions.
WACC plus 3% exceeding that timeline.
FY 2027 or longer into the future, I don't know, no.
In all the businesses, ROIC 10% or higher is to be aimed at.
I don't think that it's possible to come to the profit that you can achieve for all the businesses battery.
CapEx was large last year and this year JPY 400 billion of investment will be made and going forward where the fund comes from I don't know but third plant and the domestic plant as well so invested capital will increase significantly ROIC exceeding 10% but the amount of investment is far apart from that Panasonic Energy.
Are you anticipating that it is going to go outside Panasonic Group, Eizawa-san, in that sense?
Within the short time available, I was not able to explain thoroughly because.
The growth area where we are making investment in.
+3% by FY27 will not be achieved. Then these are to be managed separately. Separately also.
TV business.
As we continue domestically and full line.
Product strategy, so this should be the exception, so what would be the positioning of TB in the whole electronics business?
Understood. Another question. Similar question.
You have shown the companies with the businesses with issues, growth potential and ROIC have to be looked at. Both of these criteria have to be looked at, but at the same time you have to reduce the number of companies with issues to zero and you have to achieve ROIC of 10% more for all the businesses, so it seems to be not well sorted out to begin with Panasonic Group as a whole.
The.
Uniform hurdle is to be used for financial indicators. I don't think that it is appropriate to look at all businesses uniformly. Cost of capital varies from one business to another.
And.
There are businesses where you have to focus more on growth and the ROIC will come later. So a uniform perspective is applied. Then the business may not be a bad business. But with the businesses which do not meet the time horizon that you have in mind, then this will be removed from the group from the perspective of best ownership. So you may have to accept that there are diversities in your businesses. How do you look at this?
First, WACC is the basis for each business division. The situation is different. So we set WACC for each business division and businesses with challenges are below the WACC level. It is less than 3%. Then these are not the ones with issues. So less than WACC means that the company or the business is not able to finance investment.
If the growth of the sales is negative, this is also that businesses with issues so we have to take some measures. On the other hand, WACC plus 3% is targeted by FY27, but internal management, then we have to see this through.
So depending upon the situations, as I mentioned earlier.
Scenario for reaching that might be different. We spend four years with this story, we are going to look at growth and work plus 3%. If that scenario is deemed appropriate and reasonable, then with that time frame in mind, we ask them to do that. So we are not going to have uniform treatment for all the businesses.
Thank you.
We are running out of time.
And so we will take questions from two people, one question per person. From SMBC Nikko, we have Katsura san.
Thank you. Katsura from SMBC Nikko, one question. I see.
So, what I would like to ask is President Kusumi-san. In the past two, three years, I have been the CEO, so as a holding company.
How do you look at the best owner? What has been your learnings about past? You are not the best owner? I think.
So.
I wonder what kind of criteria that you have to make a judgment on the best ownership?
What I am concerned a little bit is that this time the new number.
To reduce the number of the businesses with issues by fiscal 2027, so under Mr. Tsuga, I think.
He used to mention that.
The businesses have different timing and different phases. So when we start to say something like that.
It would be very difficult to try to grow the growth. So in order to avoid that, how should you look at this?
Katsura san, thank you very much. Well, I think.
Maybe related to what Ezawa-san asked, maybe you had the impression that we are trying to do this in a uniform manner. But that is not the case. So in that sense, the below-WACC for example, that will be categorized as businesses with issues. But among the businesses with issues, there could be different various issues. So there could be different prescriptions necessary for those businesses. So it's not just a hurdle rate that we set and try to make them do something about it. And so it's different way from what we did in the past. And as I said earlier in the growth areas, some of the businesses in the growth areas we have to take time to try to grow them. And also maybe the WACC is low or the ROIC is lower than the WACC, but it's still positive.
There could be some businesses which need to be continued has values. If the value is approved, accepted, maybe it's worth continuing. For example, TV. I think that for TV the different story to rebuild and the different timeline needs to be set. Not based on the ROIC but something else. Depending on the businesses, different businesses, I think what we need to focus would be different. That's how we plan to do it.
Thank you. Thank you. This will be the last question. J.P. Morgan Securities, Ayada-san, please.
Thank you. Ayada from J.P. Morgan. I have one question about businesses with issues. In your explanation you said that businesses with issues.
Not ROIC go below WACC but there's no growth potential. That was the explanation. But if you use this definition then automotive battery and also in the air conditioning is not going to fall under that. Then the progress of these areas' ROIC might be treated as an exception. Then what will be utilized for managing these businesses?
What concerns me is three investment areas and these will be treated exceptionally and you may delay or slow down the investment or you might realize that you are behind the peers. That is what I'm concerned about. So as holding, are there any different indicators you have or going forward, do you have any such ideas?
Thank you.
Automotive battery and HVAC are completely different. Automotive battery, as I explained, we have agreement with the customers and at an appropriate time, timing appropriate investment is made and we monitor the investment so that.
It's not that we are making investment ahead, and also the productivity target is there.
Whether we can reach the necessary profitability, we have to look at that. When it comes to HVAC, it's a completely different story.
Details will be explained.
By the IR of the operating companies.
Lac.
The air conditioners which are not air-to-water and air-to-water basically structures are very similar. The low profitability of the A2W AC. Where does it come from? Air-to-air products do not have cost competitiveness in China.
We benchmark against companies and receive guidance and, with the partnerships we came to, have knowledge. But what we have learned is not reflected upon the design of the air-to-air. So in the area of air-to-air, air profitability, that is, first, cost competitiveness and productivity need to be thoroughly improved. And based upon that, for example, the cost competitiveness of air-to-water has to be enhanced. Air-to-water, as I explained earlier, therefore, how is it for the installers? For example, Daikin is focusing upon that as well. So we have to have the measures which are comparable to theirs. We have to make that clear. So investment, if we invest it so naturally, we will not be making too optimistic investment.
Thank you.
Thank you very much. With that, we'd like to end the group strategy briefing session by Group CEO. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much.