BNP Paribas Bank Polska S.A. (WSE:BNP)
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Earnings Call: Q3 2023

Nov 9, 2023

Przemysław Gdański
CEO, BNP Paribas Bank Polska

Good afternoon, and welcome to our guests present here in the conference room of BNP Paribas, and all our viewers online. We always invite you to come and join us in our headquarters. We have much to be proud of, and some snacks to share. Maybe next time we'll have more of you in the room. As usual, we will talk about the results for Q3 and for the nine months of the year. Before I start the presentation, let me say that this is the first time that Piotr Konieczny takes part in our conference. He's our Vice President and CFO. He is to my left. He will be an active participant and contributor to this presentation and the Q&As. On my right-hand side, my colleagues who need no introductions. The agenda of this meeting is quite typical, as you can see on screen behind me.

Let's move to the key highlights. As you know, our Q3 profit was PLN 445 million, which is slightly less than in Q2 2023, although a number of important P&L lines improved in Q3 quarter-on-quarter. Regarding the volumes, the loan book has not changed quarter-on-quarter, which we take as good news, given that we can see some recovery in the market. As you will hear in a moment, we are quite optimistic about the outlook for the Polish economy in the months and quarters to come. Another piece of good news is an increase in our revenue by 4.5% quarter-on-quarter, PLN 1,905 million, a significant year-on-year increase. Mind you, last year, we recognized the cost of the infamous credit holidays.

Hence, the 220% year-on-year growth is not very indicative. Another point in the key highlights, our improving position as leader in ESG, which is, extremely important to us. We continue to, put in great efforts to improve this position. In Q3, we were named the best ESG bank in Poland by Euromoney, which comes as, a third-party recognition of this, key focus. Another award we got was Best Corporate Bank from the prestigious magazine, Euromoney. In the well-known Newsweek ranking, called Friendly Bank, we ranked second. Last year, we were on top, so we are less happy. Now, these are all the introductory remarks from me. Let's move now to our four strategic pillars. Let's start with positive.

Another quarter of growing portfolio of sustainable or green loans with several key transactions last quarter, which I believe is an important trend or trajectory, which we will continue to pursue. As regards ESG, we are happy to continue growing the sales of investment products, and we are quite happy with the sales of agricultural loans to farmers. These are preferential loans. Our bank has obviously generated the biggest volume of such loans, which are now performing on our balance sheet with a positive impact on our P&L. New digital solutions, we continue to implement new functionalities quarter after quarter for our customers and the number of robots that facilitate, automate, and make our operational processes cheaper. In the Together pillar, we regularly survey the engagement and satisfaction of our employees.

We measure a range of key parameters, including NPS, the Net Promoter Score, which tells us whether or not our employees are willing to recommend the bank as a workplace to their family and friends. The NPS has been growing steadily. According to the latest pulse check, it's 23 points now. Another quarter of improvement. Let's look at the visuals for the different parameters in focus. Growing number of mobile channel users. A significant trend, even stronger in online banking, sorry, there, the trend is flattish. So obviously, customers are prefer, they prefer mobile solutions as more convenient. The growing number of BLIK transactions, quarter on quarter, year on year, and the growing number of tokens in digital wallets, that is a very convenient touchless payment tool that our customers are increasingly willing to use. Now, some details.

I have mentioned the increase in investment product sales. It's a strong growth, both year-on-year and quarter-on-quarter. Double-digit growth, we are quite happy with. We are also happy with the growing transactionality of our customers, as measured by payments on GOmobile apps. We do believe in this area. We think this is a great tool to maintain long-term, lasting relations with our customers, so we focus strongly on transactionality. Regarding lending, well, you know that we continue with our selective policy in mortgage lending. As for cash loans, the quarter was relatively flat. In corporate banking, no fireworks in the past quarter, really, looking at the number of customers or the volume of payments. But once again, we have closed some major tickets for our customers. Now, looking at the volumes.

In loans, we remain flattish, as I said before, but we do hope that this is when we start to see some rebound in the market. We'll see how it goes. In deposits, we see a growing volume in both retail and institutional deposits. Liquidity is ample in the market, and we are quite prudent in sourcing liquidity in order to optimize the cost of liquidity. The number of customers actually remained stable quarter on quarter. Looking at the quarterly figures compared to the previous quarters, I have mentioned the revenue. I think the net banking income is growing decently. As for the expenses, we do believe our expenses are under control, growing modestly quarter on quarter due to additional marketing, promotional, advertising efforts, and due to the long-term impact of inflation.

This was another quarter of setting up additional provisions for the legal risk of mortgage loans, PLN 371 million of provisions in Q3, more than we had set up in Q2, and that is not the end of the story. This risk lingers. Unless we see a realistic systemic solution, we will have to live with this risk for a while. As for the expectations regarding the new political constellation in Poland, following the recent parliamentary election on October the 15th, more on that later. But that Swiss franc loan-related risk is still with us, and we will continue to set up provisions.

The net profit went down modestly quarter-on-quarter, but if you consider that the provisions increased by PLN 15 million against the Swiss Franc loan portfolio, and the net profit is PLN 15 million lower quarter-on-quarter, this implies that the actual operating profit was stable. Shouldn't I turn over to the colleague here? Not quite yet. Good. So the cost-income ratio dropped. Mm, that's no surprise, really. We are happy with that development, but we know that effectiveness requires us to continue to work hard, including process digitalization, and optimization, and simplification, and changes to the headcount, as we have communicated before. Cost of risk, no surprise. As usual, our cost of risk is extremely low. Our portfolio is of very good quality. We continue to monitor the portfolio, and if...

Well, based on, well, on the assumption that the slowdown is coming to an end and recovery is looming, this will only continue to improve. The net interest margin is on an uptrend, which we are very happy with. This is an outcome of our hedging policy, our prudent policy, and return on equity of 15.2% in Q3, and basically after nine months of the year, after the first three quarters. Thank you very much. I wanted to hand over too soon, but I will now turn over to Michal.

Piotr Konieczny
Vice President and CFO, BNP Paribas Bank Polska

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. In the third quarter of this year, recovery started. It is still feeble and, kind of standing on just one leg. It is mostly generated by domestic demand. Nonetheless, the data suggests that economic activity in the future months and quarters should, intensify. On one hand, the consumption outlook seems to improve steadily, especially given the high rate of nominal wage increase. Increased social transfers that will increase household budgets in next year, and also lower inflation, thanks to which the purchasing power of income begins to grow again. Export industrial production, we will probably still have to wait for better times for a while. What might improve quite fast is investment outlook, stemming from a faster or rather more probable unblocking of EU funds and the beginning of the recovery plan investments.

I do believe it is extremely important, not only from the perspective from the current perspective of current economic growth, but first and foremost, from the perspective of our economic potential in medium and long term, as well as our economy remaining competitive in the coming years. Inflation. Inflation is decreasing 6.5% year-over-year in October. That's probably not the end of the disinflation trend, because the raw materials are getting cheaper, and the base effect will support further reduction of consumer inflation index in coming months. Probably, the domestic factors, plus the better economic growth outlook, result in inflation negative trend ending pretty soon. So the perspective of the next year is probably somewhat less optimistic. In this context, it is in this context that we should see yesterday's decision of the Monetary Policy Council.

The decision was somewhat surprising from the perspective of market expectations. However, it is indisputable that potentially higher economic growth resulting in a higher inflationary pressure does suggest or do lead to a greater caution. We will listen to the conference of the President of the National Bank of Poland. However, in the communique after yesterday's meeting, it was stated that the current level of interest rates is appropriate from the perspective of reducing the inflation down to the inflationary target in a reasonable time horizon. So this really determines the short-term perspective of stable interest rates in Poland. Lower inflation, no decrease in interest rates. That's probably good news for Polish currency, especially combined with better perspective of EU funds coming in. And last but not least, the banking sector.

As the President has already mentioned, we are probably at the tipping point in terms of loan demands in the entire economy and in the private sector. As for the consumer sector or households loans, it is. The recovery is very clear, not only in terms of new loans, but also increasing volumes. And probably the subsequent months, despite the fact that the interest rates were not reduced, the subsequent months will probably look better than our situation right now. As for loans in the corporate sector, we will have to wait for the real, more sustainable recovery, including the export and industrial production. We will have to wait for it a bit, as for accelerated investment related to absorption of EU funds. Thank you very much. And the floor goes to President Konieczny. Very well then.

In continuing, I would like to start with discussing a number of key numbers describing the situation of the bank after three quarters. Let's start with the balance sheet. The assets of the bank have increased after three quarters to PLN 157 billion. It is a 7% increase year-over-year. There were two main areas of change. On one hand, as my colleagues have already stated with regard to the loan portfolio, it has remained stable. We did, however, see an increase in the bank's liabilities, specifically customer deposits, and the increase in equity. Those changes in the balance sheet, combined with the interest rate environment, had an impact on our financial results this year to a large extent. So we have developed a net profit of PLN 1.39 billion after the nine months.

This was achieved based on revenues of PLN 5.45 million net banking income, the expenses of PLN 2.3 billion, the cost of provisions of PLN 961 million, and something that we should not get used to it for the future, the cost of risk on the accumulated level of PLN 40 million. If we look at the ratios and the indicators, of course, we have met all the required ratios for the banking sector. So the return on equity on the level of 15%, capital ratio on a safe level. This is the helicopter view of the bank. If we look a bit closer at the loan portfolio...

Well, in order not to repeat the information that has already been provided, let me just point out that the stability of the loan portfolio observed in the second and third quarter, if compared to the sector in general, indicates that our bank maintains its relative position in terms of our share in the banking sector. This shows that we are all waiting for the positive developments in the real economy, and we are well-positioned to benefit from that, development. As we speak of loan portfolio, it is worthwhile to note two interesting trends. One of them, that has already been mentioned, the so-called green financing. At the end of the third quarter, we have PLN 8.9 billion worth of sustainable loans, and also very good dynamics in terms of individual farmers' portfolio. Swiss franc loans. Well, how do I describe it best?

We have yet another quarter, very similar to the previous quarters. So on one hand, we see a continued growth in the number of lawsuits filed by the customers. In a previous quarter, it was 872 new lawsuits in the quarter three. So that's one trend. On the other hand, the bank offers negotiations to its clients, encourages amicable resolution of Swiss franc loans. As of end of September, we have entered into 3,173 settlements. So if we look at these processes, and compare them to the legal risk provisions, we maintain a situation in which, at the end of third quarters, the total value of provisions was PLN 2.4 billion, which covered the portfolio on the level of 73.3%.

The Swiss franc portfolio, as the President mentioned before, has a very significant impact on the financial result that is achieved and reported, net financial result. Let's move on to the liability side for a moment. In the area of deposits, as I have mentioned, we are noting growth. And once again, if we compare it to the situation throughout the sector, we see our bank is maintaining its market position. This is related to the fact that we make sure we take care that the deposits in the area of cost of financing and so on, were maintained on an optimum level. In other words, we do not want to overpay for deposits that we collect. And it is worth emphasizing here, perhaps, that this trend and this activity is, well, we achieve it successfully.

Now I have mentioned the indicators, so let's focus on another area, say, increase in investment products volume. We had another good quarter. Robust growth of investment products portfolio, built mostly on BNP investment funds, debt securities funds, debt funds, and the value of assets here is rebuilding very nicely. Now, a few words on net interest income. As I said in the beginning, certain changes happened in our balance sheet, increased deposit base, stable value of loan portfolio. All that is happening in the environment of higher interest rates. This translates into our net interest income, built on both the volume effect and a higher interest rates effect. As I mentioned before, our deposit base is built in such a way that we always work on the efficient, effectiveness, and the average price of money.

We have reduced the cost of financing by 31 basis points in mid-quarter. Maybe we should say a few words about the net interest margin. It was 3.52 in the third quarter. Since annually, we attract deposits, and we work with our margins, this margin has increased compared to the one reported in the second quarter. Net income from fees and commissions. It should be emphasized that after nine months of this year, we have a very robust growth in this area. We have developed a result of PLN 920 million from fees and commissions, compared to PLN 875 million last year. This is 5.1% increase year-over-year. This is built on us working with our clients. In other words, card transactions, documentary products, documentary transactions.

If we look at a quarter-to-quarter basis, here you can see the results in subsequent quarters of the year. You see that in the initial quarters, we usually are dealing with, settlements, so Mastercard settlements, and it does stimulate the shape of the curve to a certain extent from quarter to quarter. Nonetheless, year-wise, we have the same, profile, about 5% higher year-to-year.

Przemysław Gdański
CEO, BNP Paribas Bank Polska

Now, the net trading and investment income, likewise, a strong year-on-year increase. If you look at the nine months. Now, quarter-over-quarter, I should like to point out that in Q3, the net trading and investment income was impacted by a transaction with a customer, which made a significant contribution to the final figure we reported after September. The operating expenses, depreciation, and amortization charges, adjusted, that is, net of regulatory fees, expenses increased by 11.5%. That growth was driven by some key cost lines. Cost of employment, cost of the headcount grew this year, as did fixed costs or material costs, as inflation was impacting our P&L with a time lag through material expenses this year. The cost-income ratio was 41%, reporting an improvement quarter-over-quarter. Our income continues to increase at a faster rate than our expenses.

Looking at our expenses, please note that the growth in expenses is advancing in the context of a decrease in the headcount, down 2.8% year-on-year, as measured by the FTEs reported at the end of each period. Net allowances, should I hand over to Wojtek? Thank you, and good afternoon. Cost of risk in Q3 was marginal, 5 basis points, PLN 11 million. The cost of risk for the nine months were positive at PLN 40 million. I would not like to discuss the details of the PLN 11 million, which is really marginal compared to the overall portfolio of PLN 90 million. What I'd like to stress is, I mentioned at our previous meeting why the cost of risk is, as it is, that it's positive rather than negative this year.

In principle, however, it is not our objective to continue with this level of the cost of risk. Impaired loans stood at PLN 3 billion, which is our target, 3% of the overall portfolio of PLN 90 billion. And it's hard to reduce the, ratio any more. It's among the lowest in the industry. Given that in the past few periods, in the past two or three years, in fact, impaired loans will gradually reduce in, across all segments to the lowest level you can think of. So at this stage of the cycle, cost of risk has to increase. It cannot be permanently maintained at this positive level. So this cycle, where the cost of risk became positive, is now going to revert. The cost of risk will, however, continue to remain constrained rather than excessive.

Looking at the market, the cost of risk ranges from 30-70 basis points, and I'm sure we will not over-perform the market when it comes to the cost of risk. Looking at mortgage loans, in terms of the quality of this portfolio, it's one of the best portfolios at our bank. The cost of risk is disproportionate to the size of the portfolio. When it comes to the share of stage two, the percentage change is due to two factors. We are unfortunately generating very few new loans, and then we have the repayments, so the nominal stage two is not changing at all and not impacting our cost of risk, and neither is stage three. The cost of risk is minimal, so there's no change there. What is changing is stage one. You have the numerator and the denominator, so the share of stage two has grown.

The quality of the loan book, now two points. We are now at 3.3%, that is the share of impaired loans, with a minimal growth quarter-on-quarter. However, over the year 2023, the portfolio decreased by 5%, and also in Q1 and Q2, as we heard before, we recovered two large institutional loans, and we sold a little portfolio of impaired loans totaling PLN 300 million. We are now slightly above PLN 3 billion, but the regular cycle of selling impaired loans at bank is Q2 and Q4. So in Q4, we're going to hit our target. I'm quite comfortable that it's going to happen. So we will go back to under PLN 3 billion, which is where we expect to remain, around 3%. Up to 5% would still be safe, so we have a two percentage point buffer.

PLN 2 billion, in other words, which is 60% of the overall stock of impaired loans, without any impairment to speak of. Sorry, but without any recovery to speak of, in fact. Finally, the share of stage one, two, and three, that share is very stable in each segment. The coverage is stable and growing. It will probably drop modestly after Q4 in the segments where we are selling, because we are typically selling loans that are provisioned to a maximum degree, but the drop we are expecting is to one, up to 1.5%, and then it goes back to 62% again. So to wrap up our financials. Capital, all I can say, it's safe and stable. In terms of capital, the bank has a strong capital position. All the ratios have been strong.

That's all I have to say. Thank you. And now to conclude the presentations, we have this nice-looking slide to close. I'm not going to discuss it or read it out to you. Instead, I'd rather share some comments more spontaneously. We are now in a new political situation, which is still emerging. We don't know what it's going to look like eventually, but all we know, it's gonna be different than what we were used to before. I'm very hopeful that the relationship between the banking industry and the government will go to a new level, and that we will see, once again, what we haven't seen in many years, an open dialogue and discussion about what the banking industry can do for customers and the economy. As compared to some concepts and ideas that the government comes up with.

I do believe that the banking industry has been responsible and committed to new projects and ventures, which are based on joint ideas, efforts, and objectives, both economically and socially. So in this context, I do hope that the draft or the idea of the outgoing government to extend the credit holidays will not be decided by parliament. Fundamentally speaking, I do believe that such moratoria are a very bad idea with a negative adverse impact on the attitudes of customers and their willingness to repay. It causes moral hazard. We should be supporting mortgage borrowers with institutional solutions, such as the Borrower Support Fund. Banks should be empathetic and helpful, but they should be helping those who actually do need help because they have found themselves in dire straits, not because of their willful action or moral hazard.

We do hope for an open, constructive, reliable dialogue between the industry and the government, because we need a healthy, robust, and growing banking industry in Poland that can finance our enormous investment needs, relating, among others, to the energy transition, and looking forward to the participation of Polish businesses in the reconstruction of Ukraine, the modernization and digitalization of Poland. The needs are many and growing, and in fact, the banking industry in Poland has been shrinking for a number of years, which shouldn't be the case. On a less obvious and more difficult note, we should all understand, and the government should understand, that banks are commercial projects equipped with capital sourced from investors who expect an adequate rate of return.

What we've seen in the public domain is people being shocked by allegedly high profits of banks without realizing, however, what the banks are doing to perform and how. I do hope we can avoid external interference and generate returns for our investors that cover at least the cost of capital. One final comment that is also hopeful. We have been discussing our Swiss franc loan portfolio for many quarters. We know that this risk can stay with us for many quarters or years to come. So in this context, I do believe that the only reasonable solution to this debacle is a smart, premeditated, and well-prepared law. So far, there has not been enough space or political will to consider that option.

We know that some drafts were prepared, and I do hope that with this new political environment, this idea will come back with gusto, and we hope that the Swiss franc loan debacle will eventually be addressed and resolved, which is my wish to our bank, many other banks, and all of you. Let's now segue into your questions.

Piotr Konieczny
Vice President and CFO, BNP Paribas Bank Polska

We have received 297 questions from the virtual space, but let's start with questions from our guests in the room. Are there any questions? Have you got any questions? Please introduce yourself and ask your question. Adam Sofuł from ISB News. I have three questions that pertain to the final summary made by Mr. President. First of all, extension of loan holidays. There is an idea to extend them for another year, and this idea is still on the table. So besides the moral side, that you have mentioned, there is also a financial side. Do you have any estimates as to how much it would cost you if it were to be enacted?

The second question is about, well, the ability to finance the economy, the banking sector's ability to finance the economy, because there were certain doubts with regard to that, stemming from all those regulatory limitations. There is another aspect, something that my imagination cannot quite capture, which is the loan needs of the state in the coming years, and the banking sector is going to participate in that. Will this not push out the loan activity from the market? And to your luck, I forgot my third question. Thank you very much for your questions. Let me start with the first one. Of course, we have a number of simulations as to what could be the cost of extending the loan vacation for another year.

But I would rather not quote any numbers here because we do not know what the final result would be, and we all hope that these loan vacations will be abolished for the reason that I have... Or concluded, for the reasons that I have mentioned here. Because if it were to include the criteria that the current government has assumed and extending this for another year in the area, in the environment of lower interest rates, the cost would be much lower than the original cost of the vacation that was introduced without any criteria whatsoever. Now, as for the needs or capability of the sector to finance the needs of the state and the economy, well, I'm not going to quote any numbers here, but certainly it is a challenge that we are facing.

It is a major challenge because it includes both the needs of the Treasury of State and the economy, given a very low level of investment and enormous needs of the energy sector. It will be a challenge. Will the banks rise up to this challenge? Well, everything depends on the policy of the state. To what extent we are going to achieve a situation in which the banks are going to be treated as a key element of the economic infrastructure, the vascular system of the economy, that needs to work well for the economy to work well, and to what extent, and let's hope not, we are going to be treated as a bottomless money bag, financing various ideas that are more political than economic in nature. Let me remind you what, what I said a moment ago. We are commercial enterprises. We have investors.

Sometimes those are individual investors, pension funds, people who have consciously invested in shares of the banks, and now they suffer the consequences of the fact that the banks are forced via regulatory instruments to support various specific client populations, even when those populations don't really need this kind of help. So once again, the Borrower's Support Fund rather than moratoria. Let's remember that, you know, you have to keep your word and pay your loans. Thank you very much. Now, online questions. I was joking about there being 297. There are just, there are still a few. Okay, let's move on to the questions online. Piotr Marczewski: The number of GOmobile users is decreasing quarter to quarter. What ideas have you got to change this trend? Oh, to make it very clear, the growth rate is decreasing, not the number of users.

If we go back to slide number 6, you will see that quarter-to-quarter, we have 1% growth. We do, however, see a much more significant growth in transaction measures, be it BLIK transactions, be it GOmobile transactions. This is because the bank is more selective in acquiring new clients. We do not focus on numbers as much as we did in the past. We focus on quality. We are looking for clients that want to stay with us, that want to actively transact with us. So as a result, we have the situation that we have presented in the slides previously. We are, of course, working hard on making our clients increasingly transactional and to convince them to use remote or virtual solutions rather than traditional ones.

Next question: Is the bank planning to make TFI investments available in an ETF available in GOmobile ? Ladies and gentlemen, we keep developing the Go Mobile application, and we will continue to do so. We have made the MiFID survey available, and it's being tested. The investment dashboard will be made available soon, as will ability to invest in TFI. As for ETFs, they are available via our application in our brokerage house, the GObroker. The ETFs that are listed on Warsaw Stock Exchange are available. The process of expanding these solutions will be continued. How many wealth management clients does the bank have? Oh, we never have quoted the numbers of wealth management clients. We only provide the retail clients total. The WM clients are part of the retail cohort.

It is a growing number, though, we can say, and the wealth management area is key and strategic for us. We do believe to be a market leader in this area. Question from Puls Biznesu : Does the bank intend to increase the coverage ratio, of the Swiss franc loans portfolio to 100%? If so, when? Second question from the same area: Does the bank intend to make settlement offers more attractive for Swiss franc borrowers? Ladies and gentlemen, as I have already mentioned, we do expect to increase the level of Swiss franc provisions. We use a very sophisticated model to estimate the optimum level of these provisions. We will, we will build them gradually.

To what level, what level we are going to reach eventually, I can't answer precisely, but we will go to a level which, in given environment, with a specific perspective, would be considered by us as adequate. As for settlements, yes, we make settlements more attractive. We go back to the clients who did not accept our previous pro- offers, and we still hope that despite a fair level of saturation with settlements, the number of clients that are going to settle with us is going to increase. Now, a number of questions from Ipopema. The volumes outlook for 2024, both in corporate and mortgage and consumer loans, will the new sales of mortgage loans in 2024 go back to levels more natural for BNP Paribas Poland? The volume outlook. Well, we are always conservative about our outlooks, and we do not quote any forward-looking numbers.

We certainly hope that the market is going to continue to rebuild, and that we would play a role in a market that is adequate to our ambition, scale, and capabilities. And what was the second question? Mortgage loans, will they go back to the level that is more typical for us? I see. Well, ladies and gentlemen, we observe the situation on mortgage loans market. We scrutinize it, and we look also at WIBOR indexation, and we monitor the situation related to potential extension of loan holidays or credit holidays. We will continue to monitor this situation on the current. I do not exclude the possibility of becoming more active in terms of mortgage loans. However, at this time, we maintain our selective policy or selective approach to this product. Further outlook, cost of risk and assets. Well, President Kembłowski will answer that.

As for asset quality, the level that we currently have and the level of impaired loans of, like, PLN 3 billion, between PLN 3 to PLN 3.2, PLN 3.3, this seems to be an appropriate level and somewhat desirable. It would seem that in banking, this is the kind of objective that we should strive for, given the current macroeconomic situation. Probably not just ourselves, but the sector in general. As for cost of risk, well, it would be difficult to have growing positive cost of risk in 2024 once again. I don't expect it to happen, but I'm also not expecting these costs to be excessive in any way or to be outliers in the market among the comparable banks.

Although, you know, whatever specific data, you know, whether we are going to end up at 20, 30, or 40 basis points, that's the kind of forecast that we usually do not provide. Thank you. Now, the question of operating expenses outlook in 2024. Well, as for operating expenses, ladies and gentlemen, despite the fact that the inflation trajectory is changing, I have mentioned that there is an element of inflation inertia present, so we do expect these costs are going to increase. Additionally, the bank continues to invest in the digital area, at digitization area. That also has its own expenses, and it contributes to the costs dynamic. Another element that has an impact on growing operating expenses is the cost of labor, cost of personnel.

We see that the pay expectations in the market are high, and therefore, the bank is going to continue to react and maintain our policy in this scope. So in short, operating expenses are going to increase. The next question: do you see the growing interest of clients in using the borrower support fund in the third quarter? Thank you for this question. It's an excellent question, and the answer is no. The number of applications has decreased. So if we think about this answer in context of the discussion of extending the loan holiday, the answer is obvious. There is the borrower support fund. Additional money could be paid into it, and it should replace permanently any solutions such as loan holidays. Maciej Rudke , another series of questions from Business Insider.

Does the bank's obligation towards the KNF concerning the increasing free float to 25% by the end of the year is it current, and what is going on? Well, dear Maciej, let me say it again. The bank has no such obligation with regard to the KNF, the Financial Supervisory Authority. The obligation pertains to our strategic majority shareholder. So any questions concerning the execution or implementation of this obligation, the only unit that might answer them is our majority shareholder. How do you see the recent Supreme Court rulings regarding the Swiss franc loans? According to which rulings, the treatment of the clauses cannot, does not have to lead to terminating the agreements.

Przemysław Gdański
CEO, BNP Paribas Bank Polska

To be honest, personally, I have not looked at it in great detail. I haven't had the time to discuss it with our legal colleagues, so I cannot tell you. I cannot give you a substantive answer. We'll come back to you on that. How many cases are there pending against the bank concerning WIBOR? Are there more and more coming? What is the risk, you think? It's a marginal number, several dozen actions? Or maybe under a dozen. The risk will be falling down to zero. I have said it before, and I've been quoted on that. In this matter, the key institutions that represent Poland's financial safety network, they are completely determined to say that there are no grounds to question WIBOR. We do hope that this risk will be minimized.

These are all the questions that were put online. We have no other questions in the room. Thank you very much. Thank you for participating in person or remotely, and see you next quarter. All the best.

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