Welcome, everyone, and good morning at the Eurocash second quarter and first half of 2023 financial results. My name is Adam Kucza. I'm the Head of Investor Relations for the company, and with me, the key speakers of today, Paweł Surówka, the CEO-
Hello.
Jacek Owczarek, the CFO. Hello. We'll start with the regular presentation of the slides of the results of the company, and then follow up with a Q&A session from you. Paweł?
Yes, thank you very much. I also wanted to say I'm very happy that this time we can also present together with Jacek Owczarek, who is back with us. I'm very happy to have Jacek at my side, which, you know, for me, is great because it means that I can rely on Jacek's expertise. Then I'll, as usual, present the first market glance and then hand it over to Jacek and obviously stay with you to until the Q&A session. Albeit I'll have to leave at 11:00 A.M. sharp. That's one logistical point that I maybe should point out. So if we can jump right into our results presentation on the first slide.
I think that, you know, a general remark from my side is to say that, obviously, this quarter has been challenging for the Eurocash Group, for, I would say, at least two reasons. The one is obviously the market environment. As you probably have seen also in the numbers of other retailers, the consumer behavior generally is weakening. We see, market trends and like-for-likes in the overall retail space of the, traditional and independent market that is our natural habitat, being way below inflation. So the overall market, according to Nielsen, has been growing only 4% in the second quarter, and this is kind of the benchmark for us that we have set ourselves, that, you know, we operate in.
In this respect, our retail operations, having a like-for-like of 4.5% and our wholesale, having a sales increase at 8%, is relatively stronger, but still obviously below inflation. We see this due to the fact that, you know, we have at least three factors. First of all, consumers are buying less. We see it in volumes overall. We see it, not only in our stores, we see it in beer and alcohol consumed in liters in Poland overall. We see a clear trading down, and depremiumization in almost all categories, and then, obviously, this weighs on margins, this weighs on sales of some of our stores. Third effect, we see it also in, switching of channels in some consumers. So consumer behavior has been good for discounters in the last quarters.
Discounters have been very keen to advertise the fact that, you know, they have been heavily investing into promotions and trying to get into people's conscience and showing this price sensitivity that everybody is now up to. So in this respect, macro numbers have not been helping us. In this respect, sales, you know, we tried as much as we can to go for the sales. You can see then wholesale that has been growing much faster than the overall market, but still below inflation. And therefore, you know, we have this aspect. The other aspect, obviously, and we will point this out in a couple of elements today, is a very, very high base effect when you compare us to Q2 last year.
You know, Q2 last year was probably the quarter that was most impacted by the effects of the then beginning war in Ukraine. We had a lot of influx of Ukrainian refugees on the one hand side. We had the fact that a big portion of the independent stores on the eastern flank of Poland have been opened and allowed to be opened on Sunday to kind of offset the influx of the refugees. A lot of our cash and carry stores have been also used to buy food and other goods for refugees and also to broaden humanitarian aid across the border. We've seen a lot of those actions last year, and not only our stores, but mostly our cash and carry stores, have been profiting from that.
So, you know, as you remember, we had an almost doubling of EBITDA last year. We had very, very strong like-for-like results in Q2, and therefore, the base was very strong, particularly in the categories like basic foods, where, you know, really numbers went through the roof. In this respect, the base effect, obviously, this year has been somewhat reversed and, and therefore, you know, you can see that, this quarter in the sales element, looks a little bit weaker than, than compared to that. With this in mind, we are still relatively proud of the fact that, you know, we are continuing our strategy, our implementation of the strategy, as forecasted, and we do it independent of, you know, market trends and macro trends.
That means, integration of the wholesale units, improvement of the retail operations, investing into the retail operations, particularly on the franchise part, improvement of our projects, whose profitability should come, you know, come back and, and increase. All this, you know, with a very big discipline on cash, on debt, and on financial costs. We're doing this consequently, and therefore, I think, with the quarter in context, the numbers that we're presenting here are something that is really something that you can, you can, we can control, and we think that the part that we can control, we've delivered quite well. Net profit more than doubled, compared to last quarter from PLN 19-PLN 51.
What's more, you can see this also reflected in operating cash flow that grew by more than 50% in the first half of 2023, compared to the first half of 2022. When you would look at the cash balance of your cash, you know, taking into the account of the PLN 50 million of dividend that we've paid out, we have again almost doubled our cash balance to PLN 344 from PLN 166. So generally, a strong cash generation also in the second quarter, and also helped by discipline on the working capital side. So almost two days of improvement in the cash conversion cycle to 19 days. So going to the second slide, an overall view of the main business unit.
So again, EBITDA for the last twelve months, rolling PLN 588 million. We tried to tell you that, you know, we still uphold our guidance that, this year's EBITDA will be better than the, year. This is our aim, to improve the EBITDA, for the full year, this year compared to the last year. Last year was a record year. We still tends to improve it on EBITDA level, this year, and we believe that, you know, when you look at twelve months rolling, you can see, that we are on the path, and we are maintaining this guidance. So EBITDA for the second quarter, coming in at PLN 269 million, stronger than last quarter, both in pre-IFRS and after IFRS.
So broken down in the main business units, we have an EBITDA increase of 6% in the wholesale, helped by 8% of growth in the wholesale market overall. Obviously, as I said, we had a base effect. We had the refugees, we had you know, a different seasonality of Easter. And what's also important and to keep in mind, the independent market is quite sensitive to temperature and to weather, particularly the small stores that Cash & Carry is mostly catering to, this is a segment that is very much dependent on the weather. And we've seen year-on-year compared, a relatively weaker beginning of the summer. The temperature effect has been you know, negative for us, and this could be observed also on the sales on the overall market.
In the Cash & Carry stores, this trend is somehow reversed only around August, when temperatures came back very strongly here in Poland. In retail, so like for like growth that is in line with, you know, the market, but still a quite strong cost discipline and operational discipline in Delikatesy Centrum. So we've been able to show a better EBITDA than last year. And, you know, still in the projects, we have very healthy top line growth, both from Frisco and from Duży Ben. Obviously, Duży Ben very much helped also by strong expansion. But also, as we also pointed out, growth, yes, but also a very big focus on our side, on the profitability side of things.
So, overall, again, EBITDA growing, and, with this, I will hand it to, Jacek, who will, walk you through the different segments. I will come back a little bit later on, to discuss also what we're doing currently in our retail arm, where we had a couple of additions also in Delikatesy Centrum, and obviously for Q&A. But for the time being, please allow me to again welcome Jacek and ask him to walk you through the remainder of the presentation.
Thank you very much, Paweł. Let's go, you know, a little bit in details in a few other aspects which are not mentioned so far. From the macroeconomic perspective, as Paweł said, generally speaking, you know, we do feel that the economy is a little bit slowing down, and I think that's not big surprise if you are looking at the, also the, announcement of other players on the market, not only food, but also non-food. What we would like also to somehow tackle up front, it's the discussion about what's the regular level of the inflation in our segment.
Of course, we can only estimate what's the retail inflation in the small stores in Poland, but if you are assuming that around 50%, whatever they are selling, it's really in the categories of alcohol, means strong alcohol and canned beer and tobacco, and then you are really using the data of Central Statistical Office, you can come easily to the conclusion that the inflation in this category sits a little bit below the market and reach around 8% at the end of July this year. So we try to represent it in the left-hand corner in this slide. So that's something new I think we'll try to follow and give you a little bit highlights on this. In appendix, you still have the data.
I know that part of you are using the data of CMR, research agency, which is showing the number of transactions, the basket value, and, the estimation of the items per basket in small stores. So we do keep it. However, I think, we try to a little bit differently show you also the impact of weather, which already Paweł mentioned, during his intro.... Coming back to the financial statements, I will try to familiarize you more with the Q2 numbers. So again, first half numbers are part of the appendix, but from the half year financial statements, we pick also a few important messages for you.
The first one, it's really the 7% growth of EBITDA, which I think is also worth to mention, that the increase in the operating cost is really around 6% against 11% of growth of sales. So we talked about this quite frequently, that somehow the inflation, the cost, it's over the period of time in Eurocash diluted over the period of year. And also, you saw it very directly last year when the inflation was picking up so heavily that the operational leverage in case of our company, it's quite huge. So that's also happening already in Q2, when, as I said, the dynamic of cost is lower than the dynamic of sales.
So as Paweł said, whatever it's in our hands, we try to really keep controlled, although the inflation, as you know, minimum salary and trends is there. In terms of the sales growth composition, I think we are growing in all aspects, so I will just comment this during the discussion of the segment. Net debt very close to one times, so I think we started to be really in very comfortable territory of the discussion regarding our net debt. But also, maybe what's worth to mention is the fact that net debt to EBITDA after IFRS 16, it's 2.6, which I think in historical terms, it's one of the lowest levels from the time when the standard was introduced.
So, I'd like to point it out as well, that it's going down in both cases. As we stated, seven quarters of increase of EBITDA, you can see here, because 12 months rolling EBITDA, as you can see, reach PLN 592 million at the end of Q2. From the perspective of cash flow conversion, as Paweł
But also, at the same time, we are not spending much on CapEx. Always CapEx, I think Eurocash model was quite CapEx-light, but still, we even found out some savings on that side during the first half of the year as well. From the financial costs and incomes perspective, as you know, although the financial costs, I mean, WIBOR, which is the reference rate, grew year-on-year basis, we keep them really at very comparable levels. And what's not yet fully reflected on our balance sheet, but in Q2, Q3, for the first time, you will see that almost all that we have on our balance sheet started to be long-term.
So we refinance successfully with the consortium of the banks, which we announced separately. And what I'd like to point out is, it's really, and I'm quite grateful that 6 of our currently cooperating banks who are cooperating with us in the past are still part of this consortium. So that's, I think, quite a good sign of the cooperation. And I think from the perspective of liquidity, we are fully funded, as you can see, that even this agreement, it's above the current net debt levels. Let me go into segments very briefly. So wholesale, as we are saying, we absorbed all of this cost, and then we are growing in all segments.
Cash & Carry, it's one of the segments which is feeling the slowdown in economy, which we're talking about, probably most. On the other hand, the increase in service somehow will flatten in Q4, because that's also part of our big new contract with BAT, who withdraw from distribution of cigarettes end of last year. So that was the discussion point, which we already had together with you in Q1. So just... I'm just referring to that. From the perspective of the franchise stores, of course, we are the biggest franchisee in the grocery stores in Poland, and we do right now have 15.6 thousand shops. You have the split here. As you may remember, we're cleaning up the database of ABCs at the beginning of the year.
It's already done, so we, we started to add stores between the quarters, and 71 stores were added during the Q1, during the Q2, I'm sorry. Retail, and as we said, kept profitability and also the sales evolution. So, again, as, as you can see, the, the segment was growing, our DC banner was growing in own stores, partnerships, and then the franchise stores, and then the profitability was improved base- year-on-year basis. And maybe let, let me give one slide to Paweł, because we'd like to tell you something about the refreshment of the management board of Delikatesy Centrum.
Yes, I would say that, you know, and we probably will do a separate presentation on this at some point, but most of you know our strategies for 2025. This strategy is very much focused on, you know, the wholesale part, where we said we want to integrate our wholesale. It's also focused on our franchise stores, where we said we want to integrate those franchise stores and really be a consolidation platform that is driving the modernization of the traditional market through ever closer franchise network. And a very key element of that is our retail knowledge, our retail capabilities, and our possibility to be a leading retailer in particularly those franchise stores that are the closest related to us, namely Delikatesy Centrum.
Delikatesy Centrum has been very strongly associated with Eurocash, as these are the franchise owners and owned stores that are really managed by Eurocash, and they're a reflection of us, of Eurocash, as a retailer. In this respect, a very crucial part of the strategy was really to be able to show that Eurocash has the expertise and has also the results with which it can attract franchisees to really go after our model of ever closer integration in the franchise business, which should allow everybody to get efficiencies, but particularly important in this respect, in today's times, where we also said we want to narrow the gap, the price gap between discounters and retailers in terms of prices, is negotiation power that we have as a retailer and an integrated platform for so many stores in Poland.
And therefore, we decided to really increase our capabilities in the retail space by adding in new managers that will really help us to drive those elements that are most importantly to drive, I would say, the next change of transformation in retail. So from the left, the first person is Marek Lipka, who has been, you know, a CEO, so a management board member of Carrefour in Poland, but also with responsibilities in Carrefour Group. There, he had very strong experience in franchise and particularly in procurement. He's joining us as the person running our franchise operation with our franchise partners, Delikatesy Centrum.
But most importantly, he will also be in charge of our retail procurement, you know, taking with him the knowledge that he had from a modern retailer and years of experience working together with producers. We very much hope that Marek's presence will boost our efforts to improve our negotiations with producers, to enforce the perception of Delikatesy as really being a modern retailer and not just yet another franchise chain of the traditional market, but really a modern retailer. And he will grow also some of the strategic three key trends that we see for the stores, like development of our own brand portfolio in Delikatesy Centrum. So, Marek takes with him years of experience, a very strong track record, very good relationships with the producers, and a very wide network.
I think that he will be the person really transforming our capabilities here in Delikatesy Centrum. Hugo, I would say, the most important addition here, so Hugo, who for many years have been, has been the Chief Operating Officer of Biedronka, which obviously is the biggest supermarket chain or the biggest retailer in Poland. So he is a board member and COO, has been overseeing the operations of the biggest retail operation here in Poland. Until recently, thereafter, he was the CEO of Netto Group here in Poland. He's now joining us as CEO of Delikatesy own stores, so taking charge of those, approximately 500 stores, that have been acquired by Eurocash through the acquisitions of EKO and Mila. Stores that, you know, you might remember, have had a, a mixed track record so far.
I think Hugo will really help us to get on top of the operational challenges that we had in the integration and building up of those stores. Really improving their, their, not only their operations, but also their like-for-like, and really being able to walk the last mile in terms of really transforming those stores. And I think that, particularly here, the cooperation between Marek on the commercial side and Hugo on the operational side, will really help us to improve our results in the retail space. And Alessandro Beda here, kind of, you know, adding to the triumvirate, who is adding joining us as marketing director for Delikatesy. He's also coming from Biedronka, having very strong background in marketing that he's again made in the biggest retailer here in Poland.
I would say, obviously, Alessandro helping us to really enforce our message with the consumers and the advantage that our chains have to... in communicating with these consumers. So I think you can see us, having, you know, really investing in our capacities in three main elements of our retail operations: commercial excellence, operational excellence, and marketing and communication with the consumer. I think it is a very good sign and an important sign that those very senior figures have also decided to join us in Delikatesy Centrum, which shows their belief of the potential of Delikatesy.
And I believe that, no, in not too far future, we would like to use the presence to present you a little bit with an updated plan for Delikatesy Centrum that will take the basis as it, as it is, but really envisage of what Delikatesy Centrum can be in the, in the, in the future.... Again, not only a more profitable and better working retail operation within Eurocash, but in my mind, really the driving force of the consolidation of franchise operations here in Poland. So very excited to have them on board, and I think you will hear more from them and about them in the very future.
Let me take the few words regarding project, because also we have the quite nice developments there, and then we go to Q&A directly. So generally speaking, we keep investing in project. Of course, the two most important ones are Delikat-, Duży, I'm sorry, and Frisco. And-
Big project.
Yes. And at the same time, I think what what I'd like to point out is the fact that we are keeping growing 22% sales growth, and at the same time, the profitability of the segment or investment from your perspective in the segment is going down. So the reality is that also here we are gaining traction to have profitable businesses. Some details regarding Frisco. So Frisco, it's 14% year-on-year growth, basket 10%, and number of active active clients 5%, so that's quite nice numbers. And there's a lot of discussion regarding e-commerce, what is happening with e-grocery and quite a lot of players, especially in the quick delivery, disappeared. And we do believe that supermarkets online business is quite sustainable.
Also, it's proven by the fact that we will open this year and the new second fully automated warehouse in Warsaw. We keep investing in Duży, so we keep opening stores. As you can see, you know, the sales year-on-year is growing quite nicely, 42%. And like-for-like in second quarter, we're at 9.4%. And the last but not least, it's the integration of POS systems, the project which we ran with successful joint venture with Comp
The fact is that, together with already signed contracts, we crossed 5,000, and we keep connecting the independent stores to one vast network, which, as you know, will give us the improvement in the execution of whatever promotions, consumer, and proposals at the level of this independent stores. On the other hand, access to the data, which right now is quite distressing. Nobody really knows what is happening at the side of consumer. Of course, we know what is happening on the side of delivery because we are the biggest wholesale operator in this country, but not at the level of sales. Thank you very much. I think that's all from our side. I give right now voice to Adam, and we go into Q&A.
Yes, we have a couple of questions already. First came from Jakub Viscardi of Bank Ochrony Środowiska, and it's about like for likes, gross profit margin on sales and shop openings in the second half of the year. What should be the expectations of the market to these figures? Also, given roughly flat like-for-like base in Q3 last year. So can we somehow compare last year to this year in terms of like-for-like development and sales development? I guess not really, with inflation and different consumer power this year versus last year. So last year, the like for likes were pretty flat, second to third quarter. Yeah. So what about the likes, gross margin for the second half of the year?
Yeah. I'd take a shot, you know, happy to Jacek weigh in whenever he want. From my end, I mean, obviously, it's very difficult to guide in this market environment. We have a couple of forces in power right now. Obviously, inflation is ebbing up, you know, and that you can see, particularly in some categories, the ones that are closest related to overall commodity prices, we do see actually deflation. There is. Obviously, we are in an election year, so there's also a lot of announcements that are helping the consumer. There's social spending that, you know, kind of should offset somehow the effect that we've very strongly seen in the first half, where, you know, purchasing power and savings of consumers have been very much impressed.
And that really, kind of, at some point, translated into this mentality of, saving, I would say, almost of a war economy, that people are in and that be felt and still feel in the, in the third quarter. So it's difficult to, really give a full guidance of what the third quarter or the fourth quarter will be about. We, we definitely see that, you know, like-for-likes, will be below inflation, this element of not buying into the full inflation, but rather trying to, you know, save either by quantity, by reducing of quality, and by changing of channel. We can see it. Again, this effect, I assume, will ebb off, towards the end of the year because inflation will go down, maybe some of the-...
You know, purchasing power perception of the consumer will also change. But again, these are factors that are very, you know, dynamic, and it's very difficult to spot a full trend that we could give you a clear guidance on. In terms of the margins, again, I think it's important to point out that we are in the second year of a inflation. And, you know, what this first half of the year was really about is, we saw, you know, a kind of a reversal of the trend that we had last year, where inflation has translated in the first instance into top line, and then there was a lag when it appeared in the cost side. So, you know, obviously, we had a very strong boost in the top line, particularly in the second quarter, as I pointed out.
We had a lot of, you know, sales effect that, that were on our positive side. Energy grew in some spaces, but the bulk of inflation that would go through the cost had a certain time lag. And eventually, this time lag kind of really kicked in at the beginning of the year, where we could see labor costs going up, rental costs, which obviously had this cost lag of energy prices also going up. We had financial costs really feeding through our entire, you know, banking commissions and everything. So this was the part where, you know, costs would really go markedly up, and on the same time, they would weigh in on the first and second quarter, which seasonally always sales-wise does the weakest one.
So what I think we will see in the second half of the year, we will see that this increased cost base that, as you know, we try to kind of manage as much as we can through our efforts. It will be diluted through seasonally higher sales, and that's why it will weigh lower on our margins. And so that should, you know, help and give us a little bit more of oxygen to navigate in. In the same time, as I said, you know, there is something of a price war going on. Discounters are very aggressive and, you know, not now not having in-price increases, but showing price decreases, which means we will have to sustain profitability and competitiveness of both our wholesale operations, but also particularly of the retailers that we work with.
That's why, you know, increasing and even maintaining the EBITDA margin is very challenging, being given the fact that we need to invest into those, into those prices. So our aim is to withhold our margin of our guidance that we've given to you, which is to keep the EBITDA margin pretty flat year-over-year. I see this as challenging, being given the market environment that we have had so far. As you can see, we had a slight margin decrease this quarter, but it is our aim, and I don't think it's impossible. We were fighting for that, and this is so far our guidance that we maintain, we want to maintain EBITDA margin flat.
Yes, and let me add maybe the last element we were asked for, so the net openings. It's good it comes from Jakub, who is our long-term, you know, follower in terms of analysts. So he knows exactly that it's quite easy in expansion to go for the quantity rather than the quality. So all our motivation systems right now are really connected with the quality, qualitative measurements, so that's why we really want to gain the shops. And as you know, we are converting existing shops, not opening the new ones, and with the quality. So that's, I think, the answer in this respect.
Definitely, building up of our franchise in all franchise operations is a key element of how we want to grow in the future. And this respect, it's also important, what Jacek pointed out before, is that we also see this expansion in line with our connection of the POS systems, and that's the quality that Jacek speaks about. It's just not, not only adding the numbers of stores, but really being able to work with those stores, to not, you know, just put a banner on them, but be able to work with them much more closer in terms of running promotions, running retail concepts, running, you know, price promotions. And, and this is something that, you know, is working at the same time.
At the same time, we want to kind of deepen our relationship with our existing franchise stores, at the same time, broaden the space.
Mm-hmm.
We have a question from Grzegorz Kujawski of Trigon Brokerage, about the minority result in second quarter. So net profit, net profit that belongs to the, the majority shareholder versus minority interests, and which companies had a particular impact on that, on that result, and how recurring it is?
So from very technical point of view, as you can, as you know, because it's disclosed in the financial statement, the two biggest joint ventures or minority interest ventures we have, Eurocash Serwis, so our tobacco business, which, which 25% of this legal entity belongs to, Kolporter. And joint venture with Jurek Rogala, our biggest franchisee, it's 50/50, and Arhelan, it's 50/50. So that's the three components. And the, the, biggest impact in, in this line, it's coming from, tobacco business, because as you could see also in the Q3 results, we are, growing in this business. I, I was also, reminding all of us that we entered into this contract with BAT. We are the biggest beneficiary of, of this producer leaving the direct distribution. So generally speaking, that's, that's the biggest impact.
And the smaller ones, I'm sorry, it's Inmedio, which is also 50/50, and probably that's it.
Yeah, but Helen entered the base, so that's maybe also something that you should take into consideration when.
Another question comes from Tomasz Sokołowski of Santander Brokerage, and that's about commenting the Franchising Regulation Act. There is this law in motion now, about how to regulate franchising and how could that impact us in the future.
So we were monitoring this very closely, Tomasz, and, obviously, you know, we are, we are in favor of, of regulating, this. I think that, you know, we are one of the biggest franchise, organizers in this country, and we believe that, you know, clear rules, are, are something that is very much in, you know, in everybody's interest. We believe that, you know, we are... You know, for the time being, we don't see anything that would concern us very much. We see that, you know, the initiatives that are being, highlighted here are initiatives that are somehow directed in, in other markets.
We see that we are very much in line with everything that is now being discussed, and so we don't see a very big impact on us or something that would concern us, particularly. Indeed, we are trying also to you know, further integrate us with the franchisees, but particularly in Delikatesy Centrum, we are now undergoing a project, so-called Delikatesy 2.0 , that we will communicate further on, where our aim is to give even more co-management power to our franchisees in, you know, the central management of the stores. So basically, to say, we believe that we have been, as Eurocash, really, you know, by the book, in our operations so far, so we don't see a lot of elements that wouldn't, you know, would concern us here.
I don't know what Jacek would say.
No, I, I fully agree. You know, we are the biggest franchisor, so in, in our interest, it's really to regulate the market, so we don't need any jungle here. I think that the real balance from regulatory perspective is, you know, safety of the system versus the willingness to invest, because that's, that's on the other side, that, you know, if the system is too tight, probably it's difficult to imagine that everybody is putting additional investment into this franchisees, or the investment would be lower with long term, probably it's not the, the most beneficial. So I, I see it as the biggest trade-off in, in this regulation, but generally speaking, I, I, I think it's in our interest.
You know, maybe being naive, but I also have, I've had some hopes in this process because there are, kind of ambiguities in the current regulation that are not always, profitable for us in the sense that, for example, there is this ambiguity about Sunday openings, you know, that Żabka clearly is using, very strongly. You know, they consider their model as being a franchise model. I think you can argue with that, but, you know, still, that allows, their entire network to be open on Sunday. So, I think that it will be interesting to create a even level playing field for everybody, where today I see it as, slightly tilted to some of the players. So, maybe there's also some positives here.
Okay, we have two last questions from our 107 participants of today, and they are related to the projects segment. That's from Jakub Płotka and Krzysztof Grzegorek. Firstly, about when we expect Frisco and Duży Ben to achieve EBIT breakeven on full year results. And the follow-up question is on disinvestments of any of the projects. Are we having any news on that? Are we planning to sell any of the businesses?
So clearly, you know, the strategy is foreseeing 2025, where our aim is that both operations should be, you know, break even. And at this point, you know, we maintain our strategy. Obviously, you know, there's a lot of factors that are involved, but we are maintaining this aim that we've announced in the strategy. When it comes down to, you know, investors, I would say at this point that we don't rule anything out. You know, these are growth companies. You know, for the time being, we are developing them as our portfolio companies.
With our capital, we're sustaining them, and, you know, as you can see, they are showing very healthy and good growth as being portfolio companies of Eurocash and really part of our growth strategy. But, you know, it can be that at some point we decide that, you know, their growth and development could be even enhanced and sped up by some kind of, you know, joint venture or investment or... And, you know, again, I think we are not ruling everything out, and we will be very open to see what the market brings, you know, in the next time.
... The final question that came from Emanuel de Figueiredo: Would it be fair to say that Q3 will be relatively soft, given earlier comments on the weather? So again, coming back to how we see, how we saw July, and what about 3Q.
So there is always soft, soft is such a soft word. No, I, you know, again, the earlier comments on the weather is, yes, we had a weather impact, that the beginning of the summer was below the last year, and we could see the impact of that. That has kind of reversed around, you know, beginning mid-August, when temperatures really went through the roof here in Poland and to levels that we haven't frankly seen before. So now it's a little bit on the other side. I think it's just too early to comment on the third quarter, you know.
But, I guess that, you know, we have to, you know, clearly take into consideration that unlike the discounters in this part of the market, as a general rule, right now, you know, sales are not going in lockstep with inflation. That inflation is easing and consumer behavior is adapting. But still, you know, please take into consideration that, you know, a couple of years ago, probably like-for-likes of, you know, the 4, 5, 6% would be considered a very good result. And, you know, and EBITDA growth that goes, you know, accordingly. So, that pretty much depends on your, on your definition of what soft and hard is. But, for the time being, you know, as, as again, there's a lot of difficult, different trends at hand.
Consumers, you know, weakness is definitely one of them. But there's too much at play for me to really be able to give you an honest and concrete guidance.
Okay. Thank you all for your time and questions. That will be it for the second quarter conference of Eurocash. If you have any further questions, don't hesitate to contact us at investor relations email. Thank you very much. Bye bye.
Thank you. Thank you.