Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the earnings call, which will be devoted to the discussion of operational and financial performance of Orlen after the third quarter and the nine months of 2025, the period closed on September 30. Today's speakers will include Ireneusz Fąfara, CEO, and Sławomir Jędrzejczyk, CFO. However, before I give the floor over to our speakers, we have a short video for you.
It is a record-breaking period at Orlen. Today, this year, we can tell you that today our stock market value has doubled. We have been involved in record-high investments. Never in history, throughout the three quarters of the year, Orlen has spent so much. Our spending fuels the Polish economy and is used also by other Polish companies. Together, we take part in large investments in our yet another offshore wind farm.
We want to double the local content in our fuel stations. It was the cheapest quarter in Polish fuel stations for over three years. This is the energy of tomorrow because the energy of tomorrow starts today.
[Foreign language]
Good morning. I'm not sure about you, but I don't like to watch myself on video. Luckily, I don't do it very often. This is the last conference earnings call this year, so it will be a bit of a summary of what has happened over the year. However, obviously, we will not summarize the entire performance for the entire year because we will do it after the close of the year, but we will summarize what has happened in this quarter in the context of the year. This is important because we have just announced our strategy. The energy of tomorrow starts today, and it was a breakthrough moment, a milestone for us because about six years ago we met as a management board, and we closed the works in terms of audits, in terms of business performance, but most importantly, the strategy.
We developed a new strategy, which was announced on January 9, 2025. It was a breakthrough moment because our stock fared not too well at that point in terms of stock price. It was a good point in time because, as you can see on the chart, our stock has risen to over PLN 100. We are the fastest-growing energy company in Europe and the second fastest-growing company worldwide. It is a major breakthrough for us, but most importantly, to our shareholders. Thank you, everybody who has contributed to it, especially to our clients, because this is a sign that our clients come and buy our products. Some of them are actually returning to us because they started to trust us again. Our stock price went up by over 100%. Also, our market cap has doubled. These are the results that make us really proud.
Thank you very much to all our investors, to our shareholders, to our customers. Moving on to the third quarter, it was a solid quarter. We are managing difficult situations, and we are facing challenges, but we are faring well. We made write-downs, we recognize write-downs for the new chemistry project. As you know, we will keep recognizing those write-downs until we launch finally the project. Our like-for-like EBITDA was pretty solid at nearly PLN 9 billion. What makes us really happy is that all segments actually contributed to that result. It shows that our company is stable and is based on the four pillars of our business.
What's important, before I move on to a more detailed discussion, is the fact that in addition to running our business and developing our strategy, we keep developing new business areas, and we contribute to the development of new economic areas in Poland, especially offshore. We, as the Polish economy and as the Polish company, only encountered or actually took part in these projects a couple of years ago. Currently, the local content will be about 29%. However, in the next project, in the projects to come, we would like to increase the local content up to 50%. This is a great challenge for us, also for our business partners. This is why, together with our business partners, we are creating a space to make sure that these companies rotate, these companies take part, and they will be able, in that way, to compete with their foreign counterparts.
We organized the roundtable, cross-sectoral roundtable, discussing how the economy can change and should change in order for Polish companies to take part in this process. We organized supplier days. We are changing our regulations and the rules, especially in terms of purchasing, to make sure that Polish companies stand a greater chance to compete efficiently with both European and global competitors. This is a great challenge in the context of both offshore and SMRs. We do hope that the local content will increase as the time goes by in our projects. Moving on to a more detailed discussion and deep dive into our segments, starting with energy. I discussed offshore already, our fundamental projects. The first project, Baltic Power, we are talking about now probably a dozen of foundations and wind turbines, offshore turbines, including Polish nacelles, as well as the first Polish offshore substations.
We're launching this project. You know that we have had certain problems with the supply and installation assembly services. We do hope that we will launch this wind farm near. We will have an auction coming up on new locations for Baltic East. We have secured an environmental permit to proceed with these projects. Quite ambitiously and also with great optimism, we will take part in this auction, especially so that we secured PLN 3.5 billion for our offshore projects from the National Recovery Plan. The last quarter also included more milestones, including the negotiations with our partner Cintas, and we signed a cooperation agreement on the OSG project. We are sure that based on that, we'll be able to deliver the strategy until 2035.
This is the launch of at least two new SMRs, and we are quite convinced that the first SMR, BWRX 300, will be located in Włocławek. This is the first SMR of that kind in Europe. What is less visible maybe for us, for you, but it is visible for the clients and quite noticeable for our customers, is the day-to-day work to make sure that the distribution networks are efficient and are ready to transfer electricity to meet the increasing demand. We have modernized the grid. We have connected thousands of new customers. In terms of upstream and supply, with a special focus on Norway, this is a great challenge, but also a great success.
What's really important is the fact that Orlen Upstream Norway has just become the seventh biggest company on the Norwegian continental shelf in terms of production of gas, and is valued by analysts at $2.5 billion. In many of our fields, we were either successful in terms of the launch of new technologies, such as, for instance, Omega Alpha Field, when we boosted our production thanks to new technologies. We also discovered new resources in Tommeliten, Yabluskin, Yggdrasil. This is very complicated, so please bear with me. The Norwegian pronunciation is really difficult. However, we do have successes here, and the company is developing very solidly. This is why we have become the seventh biggest company on the Norwegian continental shelf and the Norwegian market. What makes us really happy, especially happy, are the challenges related to Ukraine.
As we said many times before, we are interested in Ukraine and Ukrainian investments. Obviously, now we are focusing on day-to-day cooperation, and it has become a tradition already that at least one ship, and we're talking about 100,000 cubic meters of gas, will go to Ukraine. We have signed a new contract, a new agreement for the next months, and we are hoping to deliver 1 billion cubic meters to Ukraine. We are an important element of Ukraine's safety and security in those difficult times, and I would like to extend my gratitude to our Ukraine partners. We're talking about LNG, so let us now focus on the special role that LNG plays in our balance sheet and also in our vision of the world, the vision, and also our recognition in the world, because we are recognized as one of the most important companies in LNG trading.
We are receiving a number of offers from our potential business partners. We have just realized the first supply to Japan, Japan, but also to France, Germany, Egypt, Lithuania. As we said before, in mid-2025, we stopped using Russian hydrocarbons. This is why we are increasing the group of our suppliers. We have signed an agreement with Equinor. We will be meeting Equinor representatives today. It will cover the demand we're talking about, 6 billion tons of crude. As for downstream, the third quarter was quite solid. The refining margins were pretty high, and this is why my colleague, Sławomir Jędrzejczyk, will discuss it in more detail because we are very proud of the contribution of downstream in our financial performance. We launched an HVO installation at Płock. This was very important because it boosts our capacities in terms of production of biofuels and also the fact that we will deliver the national indicative targets. It makes us optimistic in terms of our production of biofuels and aviation fuel. European regulations are pretty strict, and until 2050, we are supposed to meet the 50% of the contribution of SAF, that is the special aviation fuel, which includes biocomponents. This is a great challenge. To meet that target, we have just launched the HVO project. We see the OLMC potential invested in the OLX CCU startup. This startup focuses on the use of synthetic zero-emission hydrogen and capture of CO2 in order to produce new technologies. We launched a new farm, 44 megawatts. It will support the production of fuels at Możejki.
Last but not least, it's really important, and we have discussed it time and again. We will not discuss it in more detail today. It applies to two stock exchange companies. However, after a year of work, we just placed an offer for the takeover for the purchase of the Polyelephants project at Police. This is a challenging project because it requires an agreement between Grupa Azoty and financing institutions, the banks. We are quite optimistic and we're looking at the close of this project pretty soon. In terms of consumers and products, in this particular area, we focused on the boosting of our efficiency. We reported a record-breaking result in terms of sales in four major markets. We are happy, especially about the Czech Republic, because it is a highly competitive market.
However, our operating results are pretty solid, and the outlook for the future is really good. In this segment, we had two major events. One of them actually happened after the close of the third quarter. However, it is important in the context of the entire year and in the future. I'm talking about my Orlen. That is the opening of our offering for all customers, creating a single platform in order to serve all our customers. We launched it in the previous quarter, and thanks to my Orlen platform, which will offer sales opportunities to our customers, we will have even better results. We have opened the first hub for the recharging of electric vehicles. Our calculations show that the time of recharging those EVs in such stations is pretty close to the time that you have to spend to fuel your car in traditional fuel stations.
Therefore, we want to continue these projects. Right now, we have 1,200 EV recharging points, and we boosted our electricity sales used for the recharging of EVs by 80% year on year. Thanks to the trust put in us by our clients, we also increased the number of our customers in the V-Day program. In terms of corporate functions, we are successful as well. The accident rate went down to 0.5 from 11.1. This is very important because the families of our employees do not have to worry about their beloved ones when they work at Orlen. This is still quite a figure because the target is at zero. However, this is the lowest ratio we have presented ever in the history of the company. We just finished two competitions for the fire services, both voluntary and state-run fire services.
We financed the fire services, and we also purchased equipment for our uniformed forces, especially to the Polish police, which will improve the feeling of safety for all our clients as well. We invested in energy partners who support environmental-friendly and industrial technologies. Thanks to that, we will contribute to decarbonization and transformation of energy refining and fuel businesses. We also were nominated by Platts Global Energy Awards, one of the most prestigious awards in our business, often called the Energy Oscar. We do hope that the jury will appreciate our activities in the LNG sector. Last but not least, something that occurred after the end of this quarter, but it is really important, the Chopin competition was important for us as well.
We were able to enjoy the music played by the participants of this competition because we all love Chopin's music, and we were one of the most important main partners of this competition. We took part in this competition, but what makes us really happy is the fact that we created for the first time the music Chopin lover circle. Making it available, the music available to everybody, including in smaller towns, Białystok, Lublin, Lublin, they're not big cities. The success of this project in Białystok, for example, is something that is worth focusing on and continuing in the future to make sure that the cultural events such as this competition reach also smaller towns. Thank you very much. Now I'll give the floor over to Sławomir Jędrzejczyk, our CFO, who, after quite a hiatus, is back at Orlen and will discuss our financial performance.
Sławomir, the floor is yours.
Thank you very much, Ireneusz. It was quite a hiatus. It was eight years, but it feels just like one day. I do hope that I am in good shape to discuss the financial performance of Orlen Group after the third quarter of 2025. Let us start with macro. Our company is quite susceptible to macro conditions, and it was quite volatile. The prices of both crude oil and gas went down, which had an impact on our production segment, upstream and supply. However, refining margins are quite high, and the downstream segment welcomes it a lot. You have to remember that we do have a petrochemical area as well, so it is facing quite a challenge. In electricity, we had stable prices of electricity, of energy.
We had very solid fuel sales, but also quite high non-fuel sales, which impacted the prices because the prices went down, but the sales went up in terms of our non-fuel sales, especially in retail. All in all, our macro environment was quite challenging. However, our operational efficiency was quite high. This is something that we focus on, and we have reported quite solid results across all segments, across the board: higher production, higher distribution, higher sales of gas, higher volumes of refining products as well. A little lower for the Petchem because the Petchem faces quite a challenging situation, but also maintenance shutdowns and the highest non-fuel sales, record-breaking. That means that we are reporting very high and solid performance. We're talking about a bit of just short of PLN 9 billion and operating cash flows as well.
We are aware that part of it is due to lower working capital at PLN 4.8 billion. However, still, the result is quite high. This allowed us to continue our CapEx projects and pay out a record high dividend at PLN 7 billion, driving down our debt by PLN 6 billion. Slide number four shows us a lot of facts and figures. Let me just comment on some of them. We reported lower revenues. However, we are talking about nearly PLN 200 billion for the nine months of the year. This is due to the prices of crude and gas, but at the same time, we can sell our fuel at fuel stations at lower prices, lowest prices in three years. Life of EBITDA is close to last year's. However, for the first three months of the year, it was really high. Very solid cash flows from operations, as I've mentioned.
Our liquidity is really solid as well. Net debt to EBITDA is only at 0.14, which shows that we are well prepared to meet the challenges ahead of us. Energy transformation calls for a lot of CapEx, and this CapEx is part of our strategy. It is embedded in the strategy. This is a good starting point for us. Let me also tell you that the average maturity of our debt is seven years, 2032-2033. It is pretty solid as well. We are on the safe side here. As far as contribution of individual segments, it is very solid across the board. Upstream and supply: PLN 3.3 billion. Downstream: PLN 2.4 billion. Energy: PLN 2.2 billion. Customers and products or retail: PLN 1.5 billion. In total, we are just short of PLN 9 billion.
The lower part of the slide is really interesting because you can see that upstream supply went down by over PLN 3 billion. However, this comes largely from the fact that 2023-2024 was an exceptional year because we are talking about PLN 1.8 billion due to falling gas prices. The contribution was really important here. In 2024, we had additional sources of revenue. Also, in 2024, we recognize the effects of the merger. If we excluded this amount, that is PLN 2.4 billion, we would see a downward trend, but only by around PLN 800 million, which was offset. In downstream, the downstream business reported a very solid increase, nearly PLN 2 billion on the positive side, especially due to high refining margins. We need to remember about the lower production of fuels due to the situation outside of our eastern borders in the Ukraine-Russian war.
Part of Ukrainian installations do not produce fuels. In terms of energy, it went up by 500 million, and for consumers and products, it went up by 300 million. In terms of corporate functions, it was down by 250 million, but this was natural due to certain shifts of the recognition of costs, employee costs, and general expenses and overheads. This slide is really important because it shows you that we have really robust production results. Upstream supply, natural gas production went up by 5%. Downstream, as you can see, crude oil and throughput was up by 1%. However, the petrochemical sales reported a downward trend, down by 16% due to the inflow of raw materials and feedstocks from other parts of the world. In terms of energy and consumer products, as you can see, it's pretty solid. Gas distribution went up by 3%.
Electricity distribution by state flat, heat generation went up by 5%. Electricity generation by 7%, generation from renewable energy sources went up by the whopping 43%. Almost 17% of our production comes from renewable energy sources, going up compared to last year. Obviously, the dominating production is the production based on gas. However, we do have heavy fuel oil as well, as well as coal. We are increasing consistently the proportion of production from renewable sources. Consumers and products, retail sales was good. Retail electricity sales, both for gas and electricity. We have certain pressures on consumption, and retail fuel sales went down. The discussion by segment. Let me rush through it a little bit. Let me start by talking about upstream and supply. You see the macro effects on the right-hand side and the prices of crude oil.
The production was at nearly 200,000 bbl equivalents, barrel of oil equivalents, which was pretty high. It was high in Norway, but also in Europe. The rest of Canada, the production of the remaining part was in Canada and Pakistan. In terms of downstream, the macro environment was really important as well. Model refining margins was at $7.7 last quarter, going up two times and reaching $15. The petrochemical margin was really solid as well at $168, even though it went down from $200. Refining margin was the main contributor. However, the throughput went up as well. Our Polish refineries operated at almost 100% of their capacity. Możejki at 94% and in the Czech Republic at around 70% due to both planned and unplanned maintenance shutdowns. Going on to discuss energy, we had solid volumes and better distribution tariffs for the distribution of gas and electricity.
We reported increases in the heating segment and also in new energy. Moving on to consumer and products, we are talking about an increase of about PLN 300 million in retail. It was pretty stable due to the fact that the consumption of fuels was lower. Margins went down due to our summer promotions, but it was offset by solid nonfuel sales. However, we reported better results for both electricity and gas with higher sales volumes here. In terms of our CapEx projects, as Ireneusz has said, this is the biggest CapEx program, not only in Orlen, but also in Poland. The budget is PLN 35 billion, the range between PLN 33 billion and PLN 35 billion. After the first nine months of the year, maybe we will not reach this target. Some of it may be shifted to 2026.
However, what's important is the fact that we are moving and proceeding as plans, especially in upstream supply and in downstream. In downstream, we want to extend our value chain based on the so-called new chemistry projects. We are improving our product slate for middle distillates. We're talking about hydrocracking unit or the hydrocracking oil block installation in Gdańsk, but also bioethanol to Jedlicze, or the processing of biofuels in Kętrzyn. The next slide, which makes us really proud, the debt. We are showing you our cash flows from operations at PLN 34 billion for operating cash flows. However, we are also showing an increase in working capital at PLN 4.8 billion. This was one of effects. Investments spending was at nearly PLN 22 billion and a record high dividend at PLN 7 billion. As a result, we reduced our debt down to PLN 6 billion.
As far as the outlook is concerned, which is really important to all of you, because we have just discussed what we have just discussed is the past. However, we want to discuss the future as well. As for our outlook for the quarter to come, it was a solid quarter for upstream supply as well as the energy segment. Due to the seasonality, we will have a flat situation, I believe, and consumers and products will probably go down. A lot of things can still happen. However, in upstream, we expect higher production. We should have no maintenance shutdowns in our fields. We are expecting higher gas prices due to seasonal effects. However, the price of crude is lower, and it was lower in the third quarter. I believe it will add up to a very positive trend.
In terms of energy, we will have a seasonal effect, a higher production of electricity, higher prices of electricity, higher production of heat as well. These are definitely positive effects, maybe offset by some negative trends in the gas segment. However, we will still be on the safe side here. The refining margins are still pretty high. We are talking about model refining margins due to the global situation in the market. Model refining margin went up and exceeded $18 per bbl of oil equivalents. It is a double digit. We expected a single digit figure. $18 is pretty high. We know that the fourth quarter should be challenging as well because we will have maintenance shutdown. The refining units at Możejki will operate at around 70%. Same applies to the Czech Republic.
In terms of Poland, Płock and Gdańsk, we will operate at nearly 100%. All in all, I believe that we will run a little bit lower in terms of our production capacities than in the third quarter. In terms of petrochemical margins, they are even or will be even lower than in the third quarter. The pressures will persist. In terms of consumer and products, we will have a seasonal effect, especially in the fuel segment, but the same applies to energy segment. The sales will be higher, but the prices of electricity will be frozen and the tariff will be lower. These effects can offset the seasonality positive effects. Let me conclude now. Thank you very much for your attention. I believe you do have a lot of questions to ask us.
[Foreign language]
Now we will have a Q&A session. And I will thank you in Norwegian. Thank you. That is the Norwegian word for thank you. We are waiting for the Q&A session now.
[Foreign language]
Please ask your question, but only one question. If we have enough time, we might have the second round of questions in the room as well. One question at a time, please.
[Foreign language]
We have the first question.
[ Foreign language]
Please introduce yourselves.
Julia [Cudejko, Polityka Insight]
[ Foreign language]
I have three questions, but all of them will apply to strategy. I'll try to ask all of them in one question.
[ Foreign language]
What are your plans for Ukraine in terms of gas, but also for crude oil? Who will pay for gas?
Do you expect any contribution from the European Union? Also, will you have any adjustment of your strategy in terms of energy? In terms of your organizational restructuring, the spin-out of retail companies and so on.
Let us start with the first question on Ukraine. Yes, Ukraine. Gas and crude. We are selling gas to Ukraine. We are preparing ourselves to purchase crude from Ukraine. This will depend not only on us, however, also on our partners. We need to involve third parties or third countries, Slovakia, the Czech Republic. The involvement of intermediaries makes it more difficult. However, we do hope that in the next year we will have the first purchase. It was an ambitious project for the European Union to finance gas purchases for Ukraine. As far as I know, it has not started yet.
However, Polish companies are getting ready to take part in this process. In terms of our transports, they are paid by Ukrainians using their own resources, using their own money, and we do not have any other sources of money for these purchases. In terms of your second question on the adjustment of the strategy, we will have a review of our strategy next year. We will look at the macro effects. As you remember, our strategy was announced after Donald Trump was elected President of the United States of America again. We know that he has a very strong personality, but also quite a specific view on the energy and the future of the world in this context. We are preparing the update of the strategy. We will have it ready in mid-2026.
In terms of our reorganizational process for our reorganization, we are working to make sure that our relations meet the ambitions of all the participants of this process. Orlen Upstream Polska has encountered certain barriers. Let me call them procedural barriers, which were related to the fact that we needed to spin off, separate certain assets. We are discussing it with the Ministry of State Affairs, and I do believe, and I do hope that in the first quarter of 2026 we will be able to close this process. Thank you very much. Again, I will ask you to ask one question at a time.
[ Foreign language] your relation to or your opinion on the increase in the gas obligation and about your second SMR project. We were really interested in that project. We announced it in the process involving gas system. As far as I know, Mr.
Hintz is ready to take part in this process. In terms of the obligation, the stock exchange always verifies the price. We feel that the necessity to increase this obligation will not impact the price because the obligation is still high anyway, but we are ready to face this challenge.
[ Foreign language]
[Andrzej Kublik, ZTP Włodarczyk].
[ Foreign language]
I will have more than one question too. I am very sorry.
[ Foreign language]
Because first of all, I would like to reconfirm something that Mr. Jędrzejczyk has said. The reason for such an increase in refining margins, you mentioned some problems concerning Russia. Do you feel that the destruction of Ukrainian units has an effect of an overproduction of fuels?
Also, you were planning the agreement with Naftogaz for the supplies next year, but the conference was recalled. Will it be signed anyway? Maybe the statement of Ambassador Rose was the reason for that, or maybe the Niedlich affair. Last but not least, do you plan to buy any Lukoil assets that Lukoil needs to sell in Europe?
Let me answer your first question. There are a couple of factors. It's not the only element which impacts the supply of Russian fuels to European markets. We know that Russian drones can destroy production units. This is one of the very important factors we need to take into account. In terms of the agreement we did not sign last week, we will sign it shortly. Yes, we recalled or canceled the conference due to security reasons and safety reasons for the participants of the conference.
The third question concerning Lukoil, it's too early to say. It's too early to make any statements. We are looking at these assets. We know these assets. However, as at that point, we do not know how Lukoil will approach that process. Do they have any preferred buyers? We will react and proceed as time goes by.
[ Foreign language]
Jan Trzciński, Orlen shareholder. I would like to refer to something you have just said.
Chciałbym się odnieść do społecznej odpowiedzialności.
Social responsibility of your business.
No ale chciałem pochwalić Orlen.
I'd like to praise Orlen.
[ Foreign language]
I've just come back to the Czech Republic and I reach Poland's border. A small town or a village, but your fuel station is really attractive. Great service, great coffee. I'm really happy to see Orlen's fuel station in.
[ Foreign language]
Both Poland and the Czech Republic.
[ Foreign language]
Orlen's business are not only fuel stations, the sponsoring of the national team, or the Chopin competition, piano competition, but also the relationship with other stakeholders of your company. I am one of these stakeholders because I am one of Energa's former shareholders. A question on Energa. When? The question is when.
What do you mean by when?
When will you arrange or rearrange the relationships between Orlen and Energa and minority shareholders of Energa?
The relationship is actually organized and rearranged. I do not feel that there is a need of any concern in terms of relations between Energa and Orlen. In terms of the future of Energa, because this is, I believe, what you meant in your question. We are preparing the solutions. We are working on them.
When they are ready, they will be announced and published as soon as possible. We are talking about two listed companies. Therefore, I cannot tell you anything else right now. Maciej Markiewicz, Bloomberg, your approach to distribution tariffs in electricity. Do you think that those tariffs will be comparable to this year's tariffs, or maybe they will go down? We know that the discussions are ongoing, and I really cannot tell you anything more than the Minister of Energy, Foreign language]
We need to remember about energy transition.
[Foreign language]
It needs to involve the expansion and upgrade of the distribution network. I showed you that in one of the slides. We are talking about around 11% and large-scale investment projects. Any decrease in working capital has an impact.
We have different scenarios, and we are looking at a situation, and we are open and flexible in terms of the regulations. Every single one percentage point means around PLN 200 million. This can have an impact on our CapEx projects. A question from Polish Press Agency. What is the reason for you not meeting the CapEx target this year, and what is your CapEx target for the year to come, for 2026? Assuming that the fact that we did not meet that target, we are talking about PLN 2 billion, those are due to two factors. Lower spending in upstream, so reallocation of upstream spending and discontinuation of one of the projects. This is a shift of CapEx because the targets in upstream were communicated in our strategy. We want to have 6 billion cubic meters in Norway and 4 billion cubic meters in Poland.
To meet those targets, we need CapEx spending. The second reason was the lease of gas carriers. We have contracted six gas carriers, or four, I'm sorry, gas carriers. Two were supplied this year, but the other two will be moved to 2026. This is a shift to 2026. We're talking about PLN 1 billion. CapEx is a dynamic process. We are flexible. Some projects are moved or shifted. Some are optimized. We cannot have a stiff approach to our CapEx. As for our outlook, in our strategy, we presented our ambitions. They are higher than in 2025. The strategy still applies, and we can expect that CapEx will increase in the year to come compared to 2025. [Foreign language]
If we have no further questions in the room, let me ask a question from our webcast viewers.
Our webcast audience, a question on Polska Press by Ryszard Parka. When can we expect any more details? Polska Press is a great challenge for us because it is not our core business. However, we do have a flexible approach here. We want to boost the value of this company. We are restructuring it. We are reducing costs. We are increasing revenues. I do hope that after the restructuring process, we will be able to move it to the market. I believe that we have no more questions. Maybe not. The last question. A question on capacity auction in December. Can we still expect any investments in gas sources or any other investments? Are you talking about gas only? Yes. We are preparing ourselves to take part in this auction.
I do feel and I do believe that we will not have any spectacular proposals just like those as those that we saw in the previous auction. One more question.
[Andrzej Kublik]
[Andrzej Kublik, again, Gazeta Wyborcza]. A general question or on arbitrage? During the presentation, we saw that you have one arbitrage process. You have a number of processes. If you could give us more details about this particular case and the second arbitrage on the other side of the Atlantic Ocean. The Venture Global situation.
[Foreign langauge]
Let me first answer your second question because the first question, or the first answer, will be really complicated. I expected this question, actually, and I tried to pin down the very number of cases that we have with Gazprom. However, let me start by discussing Venture Global.
The situation is dynamic as we speak. At the beginning of this year, Shell, unfortunately, lost the arbitrage proceedings. As far as we know, they are preparing an appeal. However, recently, in recent weeks, we have also received very positive information. BP won their arbitrage process. We met our lawyers who are representatives in this process. After this meeting, we are quite optimistic in terms of our chances, the chance that we stand in this procedure. However, this procedure is lengthy and very complicated. According to the schedule that was presented by our lawyers, we can expect that in the third or fourth quarter of 2026, we will have the first stage of this process. We are preparing the documentation. From our point of view, we are quite optimistic considering what happened with BP.
In terms of Gazprom, this process is really complex, and we have claims on both sides. You can dive into details on our website. We know that we have claims on our side. However, in terms of considering the sanctions, we need to remember that we probably might have to net out our mutual claims. The situation is really complicated. In terms of Venture Global, after the hearings, we will still have six months until the final ruling. I would not expect the close of this case for Venture Global in 2026. Do you receive gas under this contract? The supplies have started, right? Yes, the supplies started at the end of April. This year's pool will be met in terms of the contracted pool, right? Is it true? We have two contracts with Venture Global. One contract is for 2 billion cubic meters.
Those supplies started in April this year. We believe that this amount will be supplied under this contract. The second contract represents 5.5 billion cubic meters. According to the information from Venture Global, the supplies will be started in the fourth quarter of 2026. In 2027, we believe that the targets and the amounts will be met. Yes, we are talking about 5.5 billion cubic meters per year.
[Foreign langauge
One more question.
[Foreign language ] the phase-out of coal in your energy segment, is it still on the board, on the table?
Yes, nothing has changed here. On this optimistic note, let us finish our earnings call and our conference. Thank you very much for your participation, for your active participation, for your questions.
Thank you very much to our speakers. Now, traditionally, it is time to have coffee together. We will see you in February when we discuss the performance after the fourth quarter.