TAURON Polska Energia S.A. (WSE:TPE)
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Apr 24, 2026, 5:04 PM CET
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Earnings Call: Q1 2024

May 23, 2024

Operator

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. During the conference for the media, investors, and the analysts on the earnings of Tauron Capital Group for Q1 2024. Let me, ladies and gentlemen, introduce our managing board. We have all members present here, President Grzegorz Lot, the Vice President, Piotr Gołębiowski, responsible for trading. Michał Orłowski, responsible for asset management and development, as well as President Surma, responsible for finance. On my right-hand side, we have Paweł Gaworzyński, responsible for the investor relations at Tauron.

Łukasz Zimnoch
Press Spokesman, Tauron Polska Energia

My name is Łukasz Zimnoch. I'm a press spokesman, and I'll be conducting today's conference. Ladies and gentlemen, traditionally, let me inform you that the presentation is conducted in Polish with simultaneous interpreting into English. Outside of broadcast, you can also listen in to today's meeting via the teleconference mode.

Let me invite you now already to ask questions using the form available on the broadcast website. The first questions have already arrived. Traditionally, to start with, let me hand over the floor to the President of the Management Board, Mr. Grzegorz Lot.

Grzegorz Lot
President of the Management Board, Tauron Polska Energia

Good morning. Just as Łukasz mentioned, Grzegorz Lot is my name. I'm the president of the Management Board of Tauron Polska Energia, Tauron Group. Ladies and gentlemen, we promised that we would always be at your service, at the service of the investors, shareholders, and media. So here we are, all here online this time, but thanks to that, we are minimizing the CO2 emissions, and that's one of the strategic objectives that we, as a company, are trying to promote, not only for ourselves, but also the customers. The feedback we received from the last conference was as follows: shorter and more to the point.

Therefore, let me hand over the floor to my colleagues. Krzysztof, please.

Krzysztof Surma
Vice President, Tauron Polska Energia

Good morning. Ladies and gentlemen, let me present the key financial data, and moving to the key aspects. So we have revenue in Q1 this year dropped significantly year-over-year. However, that was impacted, first of all, by the decline of electricity price on the Polish Power Exchange and the lower volume of electricity sold. Regarding the EBITDA, we generated slightly more than PLN 1.5 billion of EBITDA this quarter. More broadly, I will be talking about EBITDA further on during this presentation. Net profit of first quarter topped 0.5 billion PLN. Regarding CapEx, it went up year-over-year by close to 10%. Main reason for that growth being the increase of spending in the distribution and the, in the renewables.

More broadly, about the CapEx, Michał Orłowski will speak about CapEx further on the presentation. Net debt to EBITDA ratio as compared to Q1 2023, it has come down significantly. The drop is one that was impacted by two factors. First of all, the rolling EBITDA year-over-year was significantly higher. Let us remember that we are presenting here the Q1 EBITDA, whereas the net EBITDA ratio includes rolling EBITDA for four quarters in a row. And a significant impact also was caused by the decline of a net debt. I will expand on that later on in the presentation. Regarding the operating data and distribution segment, we had practically the volume of electricity distributed almost flat versus Q1 last year. Regarding the renewables production, a slight increase.

Let us remember that both previous quarter and this quarter were very good in this area. In this line of business, we are talking both about the hydrological conditions as well as the wind conditions. A significant decline quarter-over-quarter took place in case of conventional units, electricity generation. We have a big 20% decline. The reasons for this decline will be partly presented during the slides - on the slides presented by Mr. Piotr Gołębiowski, and partly I will elaborate on them when I'll be presenting the slides related to the generation line of business. Regarding heat, we have quite a stable result year-over-year.

We had a bit higher temperatures, outdoor temperature this year during the heating season in the Q1 this year, so a slightly lower production of heat, and we had observed a significant decline of electricity sold, mainly to the business customers. That's all regarding the key data. Let me hand over the floor now to Piotr Gołębiowski, who will present the situation on the market, and I will get back to you, continuing the presentation over financial results.

Piotr Gołębiowski
Vice President, Tauron Polska Energia

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Briefly, the characteristics of market indices after Q1. First of all, what I already indicated during the earnings conference for the full year, 2023, we are dealing after a strong destabilization of prices in 2022, 2023, as a result, among others, the invasion of the Russian Federation against Ukraine.

Now we're dealing with a stabilization of the demand and supply situation. All the indices either return to their normal levels or in an upward, downward trend, excuse me. This is applicable to the, in this related to the spot prices of electricity, futures market, the CO2 prices, and coal prices. Let me go one by one. Let's start with the spot market electricity prices, because when we get into this year, we are talking on the contracting, intra-year contracting, either on the short-term market, short-term futures market, or on the spot market. And now, this decline of the prices on the next day, day-ahead market, we forecasted that it was about 42% below the level of 2023, of Q1 2023. Mainly, this is due, first of all, to the cheap gas.

So we are dealing with three factors that are behind that. A very big drop of prices on the gas market, which led also in the neighboring countries, which led to the imports of electricity and increase of imports to Poland in Q1 by at least 70% more than in the same period of last year. Also, a strong growth of electricity generation from renewables, which in Q1 was about 30% higher than last year regarding the photovoltaic installations, and that's photovoltaic, and 20% regarding wind farms. The same is applicable to the futures indices of a 2025 product. Contract is lower than the 2023 price over 2024 contract by about 26%. Moving on, the CO2 emission allowances prices significantly went down, which was even a drop below our expectations.

The price was between 52 EUR and 77 EUR. Average clearing price came in slightly more than 61 EUR per ton. It's 31% lower versus the average price of a similar contract in Q1 2023. Now, these events, these developments, but let me just mention the prices of coal, the PSCMI 1 index, the average post production cost of thermal coal in Q1 2024, came in at almost 23 PLN per gigajoule, and it was about 9 PLN lower than the level of the prices in the first quarter of 2023. In the right-hand bottom corner, we are presenting, maybe it's not intuitive, the CDS index, which is the difference between the market price of electricity and the cost, the variable cost.

And for some time, for the 200 type units, they are negative on average in Poland. This level is about -100 PLN per MWh on average, whereas for the 1000 type units, we estimate that the average level is about -20 PLN per MWh. And this is the reason why the contracting of electricity in 2024, for the year 2024, will be very limited. That's the index which also shows why the utilities, the energy groups, also including us, are hedging our result of trading operations ahead of time on the futures market to avoid this type of situation, that the economics of the production could turn out to be very limited due to the short-term changes of the price indices. That's all from me as of now.

Let me go back to the discussion of the financial results of the group for Q1. Of course, if we look at the reported, the EBITDA quarter-over-quarter, so Q1 2023 versus Q1 2024, we can see a significant decline of EBITDA. However, here we look to demonstrate that this decline of EBITDA is caused by a number of one-off events, and if we adjusted EBITDA, stripping out the one-off events, then the EBITDA quarter-over-quarter would be very similar. It would be about PLN 1.7 billion. The key events with an impact upon such a big difference in the reported EBITDA is, first of all, something that we also discussed in previous conferences, is the revaluation of, adjustment of the balancing difference in the distribution line of business, and this revaluation went in opposite directions.

In the two quarters, with this going in Q1 2023, this, the revaluation was more than PLN 600 million, close to PLN 700 million, while, it resulted in a significant increase of EBITDA at that time, over that period. Just remember, this is a non-cash, non-monetary event, and this is due to the change of the price, the cost of the grid losses between December and January of a given year. And last year, this effect was such where the price was going up, so the effect of this revaluation was positive. This year is of course, it's not, but this year, the price at the turn of 2023, 2024, the price of electricity purchases for grid losses was declining. Therefore, this revaluation effect has a negative impact.

So these two factors were the main factor determining the difference between quarter-over-quarter. Also, last year, we had another impact from the payout to payout fund, charge to the payout fund. This year, this law is no longer in force, so we don't have this one-off event related to the allowance for the price difference payout fund. Regarding the events that took place in Q1, 2023 and Q1, 2024, is the issue of PLN getting stronger. Let us remember that in generation, we are setting up the provisions for the CO2 emission allowances. This provision at the operational level is converted versus the Euro exchange rate.

The strengthening of the PLN leads to the decline of the level of this provision, so it and then to the improvement of the operating results, but has a major then reverse itself at the level of the financial results. Other one-off events that took place in both quarters, in 2023, we were releasing a part of onerous contracts provisions that were set up at the end of 2022. While in 2024, in Q1, we're dealing with a positive impact. We got a positive interpretation from the tax office regarding the tax treatment of the payout, or the method applied to calculate and take into account the VAT or lack of VAT.

The payment that was introduced in the reduction of a charge to the customers, this famous 125 PLN, that we set up a provision last year. This was a net amount. Provision, after putting the provision of a tax office, we can treat it as a gross amount. Therefore, a part of this provision that we set up, was applicable to the tax obligation, was released in Q1 2024. So having adjusted the EBITDA, having stripped out all these events, the EBITDA is practically flat, it's comparable. If you look at the comparison of EBITDA between quarters, per segment, per individual segments, here again, distribution, of course, is a key segment for the group. This difference in the contribution of the distribution between quarters is due to this one-off event.

As I mentioned, the reported EBITDA is a bit distorted in the first quarter due to the one-off impact of revaluation of the balancing difference. It's also worth emphasizing the good results of all the segments, both at the EBITDA level as it is at the EBIT level, all the results are positive. The supply segment is particularly looking good. But just remember, we're also dealing with this one-off event regarding the positive interpretation regarding the taxes. Now, moving on to, in detail, into individual segments. Regarding the distribution segment, as I mentioned at the beginning, the volume of electricity distributed is very similar quarter-over-quarter, practically flat. The difference, the negative difference, can be seen in Group A, with our largest customers, a bit lower consumption by the steelmaking industry and the mining industry.

But basically, the volume of electricity distributed is pretty flat quarter-over-quarter. The negative impact on the quarter-over-quarter results comes from this, those one-off event that I mentioned before, so the revaluation of balancing difference, and this had an impact at the level of more than PLN 1 billion negative impact, more than PLN 600 million of a positive impact in Q1 2023, and almost PLN 400 million of a negative balancing difference in Q1 2024. From the recurring, more kind of business point of view, we have a positive impact of a margin on the distribution service. Here, one could probably mention two or three factors that were behind it.

First of all, the increase of WACC year-over-year, just remember, by almost 2 percentage points, it went up, so it has a positive impact upon our earnings, the results of the distribution segment. The second factor, we are dealing with a bit lower grid losses, and the third factor is an increase of reactive energy, the passive energy, which had a positive impact upon the results of the distribution line of business. We're also dealing with a positive event with respect to the regulatory account. The settlement on this account was lower this year, year-over-year. If we move on to regarding the key quality parameters in the distribution segment, practically, those parameters were fully met. We have a slight deviation regarding the new grid connection installation time.

However, they are working on it, and we do believe that over the course of a year, the, those quality parameters set by the President of the Energy Regulatory Office, along with a certain tolerance that's admitted, will be met, and this way will not have a negative impact upon the tariff in the subsequent years.

Łukasz Zimnoch
Press Spokesman, Tauron Polska Energia

Moving on to the renewable segment.

Piotr Gołębiowski
Vice President, Tauron Polska Energia

Here we are dealing, first of all, with positive price impact. As I remember, last year we had a law that introduced a cap on electricity prices in this segment to a certain level, at a certain level. This year, this law is no longer in force, so we have a positive impact on the price of electricity. At the same time, we have a negative effect coming from the price of green certificates. The price went down practically by half year-over-year.

It will have an automatic impact upon the results. In addition, one of the wind farms in our portfolio lost already the ability to take advantage of green certificates benefits, so that 15 years have passed since it was commissioned. If we look at the volumes, the volumes didn't have a major significant impact upon the results because they were pretty flat year-over-year. But just remember, the Q1 last year, as well as Q1 of this year, were very favorable regarding in terms of meteorological conditions, weather conditions. Moving on to the generation segment here. This segment, year-over-year, reported a significant decline of EBITDA. This drop in EBITDA is, first of all, caused by the lower margin, trading margin. Piotr was already showing it on the previous slide, that practically on the 200 type units, it's not possible to generate a positive CDS.

Regarding the other units, this CDS, so the margin, deteriorated year-over-year. We have a decline of electricity, which is much stronger than the decline of a coal price and the decline of CO2 emission allowances prices. Regarding, and this is the key fact, the second effect that I mentioned at the very beginning, that had a negative impact upon this segment, is the decline of the volume, the 20% decline year-over-year. Here, we are dealing with, the effect of, coal units being pushed out by the growing renewable generation, the gas prices falling significantly year-over-year, and they are, higher in the merit order versus especially the old 200-type megawatt units. Regarding the other effects, we already mentioned this one-off event.

As a matter of fact, the strengthening of Polish zloty this effect year-over-year, because we saw PLN strengthen in Q1 last year and Q1 this year. This effect, year-over-year, is another PLN 50 million, as I mentioned, the lower cost of provision for the CO2 emission allowances. The positive aspects of this segment, we can say we have a higher margin on heat. Here, the tariff in this area was changed in spring last year, so that means that in Q1 2023, the tariff was lower, and now we have a higher tariff in place, and therefore, the results in the heat line of business are better year-over-year. Moving on to the supply segment. Here, we are seeing a significant improvement year-over-year. We have very good EBIT and EBIT.

The EBIT level is even better than distribution segment in Q1 2024. However, here, we have some positive information. As I mentioned, the one-off effect of release of a provision due to the positive interpretation regarding the VAT and the provision set up for the return, refund of 125 PLN to the customers that met the applicable legal requirements and positive effect of a margin of spot price. First of all, the favorable contracting of electricity last year, that was hedging the electricity for this year at the price, at the favorable prices. And secondly, we have a positive effect in such a way that the full costs are included, are covered by the G Tariff.

Due to these two effects, due to these effects, we have an increase on the electricity supply, but the negative impact came from a decline of volume in the segment, in the business segment, customers, and the year-over-year, they make our results worse. So we have also a positive effect regarding the margin on the gas sales. Year-over-year, relatively, these results are better, which doesn't mean that they're ideal, but they are much better now. So one can say that the segment looks positive, but to a large extent, this, the earnings in this segment was improved by this one-off event by more than PLN 100 million due to this taxation issue, taxation effect. Moving on to the debt slide. One may say that from a functional point of view, the financial position of the Group is stable.

As of the end of the quarter, we had available close to PLN 4 billion available financing, therefore, there's no liquidity risk regarding the repayment of debt coming due this year and the CapEx that we are implementing. But addressing some questions from the previous conference, again, on the first time on the slide, we showed you the move from the gross debt, that you can read in the find in the final statements, to the net debt that we calculate based on the agreements reached with the financial institutions. The first thing with debt, I'm talking about the net debt, year-over-year, went down by PLN 1.7 billion. This is a positive effect. This had a positive impact upon the leverage ratio that I mentioned at the beginning of my presentation on the first slide, in combination of the rolling EBITDA.

But if you look at the bridge regarding the gross debt to net debt, the three key elements have an impact on this difference. One is quite obvious, that I'm talking about the analysts, I, catching it very well, the matter of cash. The other two are more due to provisions of the financing agreements. It's a matter of eliminating the hybrid bonds or subordinated bonds. Their characteristic allows them not to be included in the senior debt, so they reduce the net debt. That's what the financial institution allow. And the second important thing is the leases. We include in that, the typical financial lease before the change of regulation.

Let us remember now, regarding the lease agreements, these are mainly the rights to perpetual use of land, and taking into account the scale and length of operations of our group, heat distribution, we are dealing here, as a matter of fact, with a long-term, several dozen years, terms of agreements are classified as lease agreements. It's not typical lease, financial lease, as was the case before the change of the lease-related regulations. So we have an impact upon the definition of leases before the change of accounting regulations. So these three elements determine the level of a net debt that we are presenting, and based on which we calculate the net debt to EBITDA ratio. That's all regarding the debt. Let me hand over the floor to President Michał, who will discuss in detail the CapEx of our group.

Michał Orłowski
Vice President and Asset Management and Development, Tauron Polska Energia

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, Michał Orłowski, President of the Management Board for Asset Management Development. Regarding the CapEx of Tauron Group, we have an increase by 9% year-over-year, up to PLN 847 million. And this increase is due to the increase of the CapEx in distribution here, PLN 73 million more, PLN 637 million, PLN 35 million spent this year, including 68% to build the new connections, 68% for replacement and refurbishment of grid assets, and PLN 55 million, the third largest category for the AMIplus program. So the smart metering installation. Regarding the renewables, here an increase by 32%, PLN 24 million year-over-year up, and half of those outlays was spent on the PV farms. Apart from that, wind farms, the refurbishment of the hydropower plants.

Regarding the and other spending, regarding generation, I see a decline of spending conventional, from PLN 74 million to PLN 46 million. The biggest item is the outlays at Tauron Wytwarzanie subsidiary, including the overhaul components and the refurbishments related to the 910 MW unit in Jaworzno. In the other segment, a decline from PLN 57 million to PLN 44, 41 million. The biggest part is the IT investment in IT, PLN 34 million PLN, and the lighting, maintenance, and expansion, PLN 13 million this quarter. On the next slide, I will describe the details of investments in the renewable energy sources. Regarding the farms that are to be commissioned this year, so first of all, the wind farm, Mierzyn, we have 92% work progress, and the wind farm achieved capacity to generate electricity. The first electricity was put into the grid on April eleventh.

Final tests have been completed. The UDT, Supervision, Technical Supervision office, acceptance has been completed, and the preparation of wind farm for commissioning is underway. The next farm is Warblewo. So electricity on the fourteenth of May was put into the grid. We are completing the commissioning phase, and now we are at the stage of testing and preparation of the handover for operation. Gamów wind farm, the installation, beginning of April of 15 turbines was completed. Now we are doing the startup works, acceptance works, and the works have also been completed regarding the medium voltage line. The works are being completed at the main switching substation, electricity substation, therefore, the work progress is also pretty high. Regarding the Nowa Brzeźnica and Sieradz, at Nowa Brzeźnica, certain works related to the substation are conducted.

Also, foundations are already completely, have already been completed for the wind farms. At Sieradz, we are at the design stage at this point in time. To answer one question right away, that's true, when the CapEx still... you don't see the progress yet, namely the certain delay between, certain lag between the work progress and the financial, results. Therefore, in the subsequent quarters, we expect that this segment... We'll be seeing an increase of, CapEx. Is it gonna be specifically in Q2 or in subsequent quarters? It depends upon the logistics, but as I was showing, three of those wind farm projects should be coming by the end of Q 2024, and relatively advanced. Now, Q2 2025. Here is Q4 2025. Regarding the PV farms, here Proszówek now is generating electricity.

Practically, this is a project that as of today has practically been completed. As of time of the financial statement, it was not ready yet. Bałków and Postomino, we are a bit less advanced here. We have Bałków is practically the preparation of all the support systems, infrastructure, acceptance of petitions, of applications, and dealing with the subcontractor. Postomino is mainly the design work, the geotechnical tasks, and the building certain infrastructure, such as the access roads. So this is the work progress of renewables project portfolio as of now. Thank you very much.

Łukasz Zimnoch
Press Spokesman, Tauron Polska Energia

Ladies and gentlemen, the time has come to move on to the questions that were sent. Thank you very much. It seems that one month after full year conference, there'll be fewer questions, but we have quite a few of them.

First question regarding the positive cash flow, especially after the assets have been spun off. The probability of first dividend before 2030 is realistic or much faster, much earlier? As we stated before, the ambition of the main board is to pay out a return, to the payout of a dividend. And it was mentioned here, the key issue is the spinning off of coal assets. This is a precondition, prerequisite for the payout of a dividend. Of course, we are also dealing with an issue of availability of capital on the market. However, our ambition is to prepare the financial plans in such a way so that the dividend could be paid out in future. I cannot declare which year it's gonna occur, because we're not fully sure when the coal assets will be spun off.

We would like it to take place next year at the latest, but that's the main determining factor. As I said, we will be trying to design our future cash flows and our strategy in such a way so that also the payout for the shareholders of dividend would be included. The next question is the Ministry of Finance putting the brakes on the transaction of a spin-off of coal assets? Is the ministry waiting for European Commission's permit for extra support, especially either the capacity market or from the contracts for difference, CFDs? Without this approval, can the ministry stop the spin-off of the assets, which would pose a risk for the success of the entire process? Well, ladies and gentlemen, this is the question mainly should be directed to the Ministry of Finance.

This is so please, let me not answer this question because I'm not an employee of the Ministry of Finance. Regarding the question, whether they are putting the brakes on the deal, definitely not. We, as a company, we never came across such a situation. So second question, please direct this question to the Minister of Finance. In case of putting the brakes on, it never happened. We didn't feel anything like that, that somebody's putting any brakes on this deal versus our company.

Thank you. The next question, assuming a stability of electricity prices will the result on the coal-fired power plants in the subsequent should be weaker versus Q1 due to the lack of, positive effect of, electricity buyback?

So in the second half of 2024 and in 2025, should there be a positive effect on the cost of coal when the electricity prices stay at the similar level, the same level? Let me answer, try to answer. Let us remember, there are several issues in play here. Let's start with the segment. In our case, the generation segment is a heat segment and a conventional gen electricity generation power plant. So let's look at the result of the segment in this context. Regarding the weaker Q1 and the prospects for the subsequent quarters, in the outlook for this year, we said that the generation segment will be significantly lower versus the reported EBITDA last year. Here we are upholding what we mentioned during the previous earnings call, conference call.

Regarding the margins and the results generated, let's remember, we are dealing, first of all, with two factors here. First factor is the margin effect. The margin, to a large extent, has already been hedged for this year because we're talking here about the price of electricity, the price of carbon credits, and the price of coal. And that's the first thing. The second thing is the volumes of electricity produced and the forced generation that take place in this segment. Forced generation, to a large extent, are not up to Tauron. This, we're dealing here with a national policy, the renewables production, gas-fired production, and the decisions, at the end of the day, made by the TSO, PSE, that take decisions to which units should operate. So I wouldn't assume a stable result quarter-over-quarter.

I would uphold the outlook we had for this year. And as I mentioned, discussing this quarter, the margin in this segment went down significantly year-over-year, and the fossil operations are also dropping. So the prospects are much weaker. We are talking about the issue of coal and the positive impact, effect from the cost of coal. Of course, we had a positive effect on cost of coal alone, because the prices of coal went down significantly year-over-year, and we're expecting this trend to continue in 2025. However, the price of electricity went down much more than the coal, the price of coal, or the price of the CO2 carbon credits went down. So this margin worsened year-over-year. Let me add, the question was regarding the electricity buybacks in Q1 this year. The buybacks of electricity were higher than planned.

So we're planning regarding the coal generation segment, we're planning about 17% of electricity buybacks versus the volume that was sold. However, it was in fact 23%. So we assume that approximately 20% of will be electricity. Regarding coal, will be other subject of buybacks or reductions. So that was, Krzysztof mentioned, this is effect that we can additionally generate on the margin due to the buyback of electricity if there's this development, where the price of electricity is lower than the variable cost of its production. Next question for the management board. The outlook for the growth and distribution regarded as a decline of free cash flow versus the average from last year is attractive, despite regulatory asset base going up and the higher WACC. Let me answer this question.

Generally, let's put it this way, in Q1, as Krzysztof mentioned, we're dealing with the one-off events that had the major impact upon the distribution segment. They were of non-cash nature, so this a bit doesn't reflect the actual cash flow in this segment. In our opinion, the distribution, and I do hope that in the opinion of investors, is an attractive investment, segment. It also has a certain needs due to the growth of prosumers and the need to upgrade the power grid to make it bi-directional. So at this level of WACC and the risk related to the investments in the distribution segment, we, our opinion, is one of the attractive directions for investment in Tauron Group. So that's why the majority of funds is allocated to that segment.

Next question, what's the cost of building a one megawatt in the onshore wind farms? What's the reason for putting the brakes on the investments in wind farms in Q1? From Q2, one should, should one re-expect the rebound on spending on the projects underway? How much is the cost of building one megawatt in the onshore wind farms? It depends. It depends on a number, upon a number of factors. Now, we have a limited supply of new projects, development projects. These are mainly the projects that were developed for some time, long time, with certain modifications. However, frequently it is not the latest and the best available technology due to environmental reasons. Those wind farms that we built under such a formula to meet the requirements, which also involves CapEx at a certain level.

At wind farms, an important factor is also the length of grid connection from our point of investor productivity of those farms. At the PV farms, we have a relatively minor difference between the assets, whereas in onshore wind farms, the difference in productivity between individual locations is quite significant. Therefore, the price of those products differ significantly. Generally speaking, the sort of project that we see now, these are low double-digit figures regarding the prices in millions PLN per megawatt. But within the segment, we have quite a lot of variation. We haven't observed such a decline of CapEx per unit, as we can see in the case of PV. Here, the prices are stable after they went up in the previous years.

Regarding the spending, as I mentioned, the financial progress is not always reflected- does not always reflect the actual physical work progress on the investment project and the subsequent quarter, we can expect an increase of CapEx in this segment. What is going to be in Q2 specifically, it depends upon the precision on the construction sites with the contractors. So generally speaking, I would expect an increase of spending in renewables in the second quarters. GPLA from WNP, does Tauron conduct talks with the government and Ministry of State Assets regarding the spinning of all the coal assets? Does Tauron talking to other groups about it, for instance, PGE or Enea? Thank you very much, Mr. Editor. Yes, of course, we conduct a lot of talks, as we declared during the conference, during our talks, we are preparing ourselves.

There are no final decisions yet in place. However, as a company, we are ready to take such a step. We are having talks with the government. We are also communicating this to the workforce. So our vision, our strategy is unequivocally communicated, which doesn't mean that something else, something could happen. We have it all in front of us, ahead of us, talking to individual, other energy groups. Well, each group has a different situation, different strategy. We are focusing on Tauron Group and our specifics. We have a short production position in production, a long position in supply. So quite a different potential and differentiation than in case of the other utilities. As we mentioned before, focusing on our growth, developing, building value for our customers and our shareholders, and we're looking for any solution for Tauron. Thank you.

One more question from Editor GPL: "What will be the impact on the results of the supply segment becoming from the further freezing of electricity prices?" We are of the opinion that the process of freezing electricity prices is coming to an end. It seems to us that second half of 2024 will be the final stage of, is difficult for everyone, for all the stakeholders. The process is difficult for all the stakeholders, and I remain convinced that the price freezing will have no impact upon the results generated on the supply operations. Plus, the level of compensation payments will be sufficiently high in order to cover the full cost of conducting such a supply for, for the groups that are covered by the freezing mechanism.

Another question, "The lack of capacity payment in the invoices for the household starting from the second half of 2024 will have an impact upon the results of Tauron?" This is a totally new issue. Yesterday, the Senate introduced amendments to the Act on the Energy Voucher. That's why this amendment came back to the lower chamber of parliament. There's a proposal to suspend, let me emphasize, suspend the collection of a capacity payment, a capacity charge. This is the charge or payment that is then allocated to the needs of the capacity markets. So Tauron distribution is a collector, is collecting this fee, this payment, and then transfers it to the fund settlement management.

So if it's the charge is suspended, then it'll be neutral for Tauron, because I think it's still we are talking about the power temporary suspension, not just withdrawal, because the capacity market will require financing for a number of years. Yeah, in the context of a low generation of electricity from coal and the pushing out of the conventional units from the merit order, there was the planned decline of a consumption of coal by Tauron in 2024 and in 2025. And because of that, it will be necessary to terminate the contracts with coal suppliers. At this point in time, all of the units of Tauron Group have the inventory levels of coal in line with strategic guidelines.

Strategic inventory level, this level as of March 31st, was more than 1.5 million tonnes, and we are maintaining this level of inventory. The volume of coal supplied to the generation units of our group stems directly from the coal contracts concluded. That's true, there is a certain pattern that indicates that if the units are not included in the merit order, that's what we are observing, as a matter of fact, due to the lack of a forced operations. But we also mentioned when those units will not be consuming coal in a continuous manner, we are taking all the possible commercial action in order to maximize the collection of coal contracted, both in 2024 as well as we expect that we'll be taking such steps in 2025, if required.

Another question, "How much is left to spend at the wind farm, Mierzyn?" What does it mean? I will not be disclosing the specific figure, but it is worth to mention certain mechanism that takes place applicable to some wind farms, namely the advanced payments. In practice, from the contractual point of view and the legal point of view, there are certain expenses that are incurred during the construction. They are not classified as CapEx, but as advanced payments for quite a late stage of the construction cycle. Therefore, in the case of this wind farm, the CapEx does not reflect the full level of actual tangible advance. If we looked at strictly the spending, how much cash flow went out of the group in the form of investment, and this amount would be much closer to the work progress.

So therefore, this CapEx, that's true, doesn't correspond to what we are showing today as the tangible work progress. This is due to this advanced payment mechanism, especially in some construction sites, especially in the case of wind farms. In the case of the suppliers of turbines, this is more for requirements stemming from the legal formula, not so much the physical connection between the cash outflow and the work, actual work progress at the construction site. "Why is the dividend to be dependent upon the spin-off of the coal assets, which, as economically, the majority of those units will have to be switched off and shut down, and well, only one unit will be part of a capacity market?" It's not a prerequisite whether we have a coal asset or not, the payout of the dividend.

The dividend stems from the economic position, financial position of the company, and the ability to pay out this dividend when we implement the applicable capital expenditure projects. But of course, Krzysztof, yes, it's a matter of that's also relevant, the financial results, but the issue of having the whole units by the group is the ability of access to financing. So the implementation of CapEx plan has also to be linked to the ability to pay out the dividends, the ability to generate cash flow at the end of the day, to being able to take on external financing. So we are saying, if we are capable of having sufficiently good financial results, so we're able to pay out the dividend without spinning off the coal units.

However, coal assets, however, if our CapEx program exceeds the cash flow generated, then it's a bit correlated in this regard. But as we emphasize our intention from the very beginning, the very beginning, is to pay out the dividend for the shareholder. That's how we are desi- the way we are, we'll be designing our strategy to make this payout possible. Some European energy corporations are beginning to curtail the CapEx in renewable due to the low prices and the high, investment project costs. Does Tauron see such a danger for the pace of the transition in Poland? This is, and it's a question for a million dollar, but in our case, for much more, to... If I could put it this way.

It's of course a certain challenge, when, namely, on one hand, and particularly in the photovoltaic segment, we are observing quite a significant drop of CapEx. First of all, the prices of solar panels were going down, were going down very quickly. If earlier, the inverters prices went down, so the unit cost of a megawatt is much lower. On the other hand, we have the physical shutdowns of PV on the high voltage and medium voltage, and the deteriorating profile, our profile at the time when the PV generating electricity. It's a certain challenge, but with the declining CapEx and the greater supply of a PV project that's available to be bought on the market, we still continue to look for models that can ensure the profitability. There's a big challenge that we have to face.

We had to build at the prices from two years before, so then definitely such products will not generate a business case. It's actually a bit different in the wind farm segments. This profile is much more valuable in this case, regarding the production of electricity by those farms. However, we are not observing such a decline of a CapEx levels. The supply of the product is more limited in this case, therefore, we have to look for profitable configuration. It's a challenge, however, nevertheless, the declining CapEx, PV CapEx, definitely generates certain room, certain space and this wind profile is more highly appreciated by the market. Let me add, the...

It's applicable not only at this issue to our company, but also to the sector, because this puzzle, when you have to reconcile, then on one hand, there is a requirement to meet the ESG criteria to guarantee the green production, electricity for production of your product. On the other hand, the limited supply of green energy will mean will lead to major movements on this market. So free market in the near future will be very dynamic, and we do hope that it find its equilibrium. As a group, we, we definitely want to invest. However, those investments, one of you asked why we slowed down those investment projects. We are determined to carry out the investment projects, but only the profitable ones, profitable investment projects. That's the main prerequisite, the main criterion for our decisions. Thank you.

The time has come for the last question. How many generating units have can be defended for in the current terms after 2024? Can the coal assets problem be resolved by the shutdown of power plant? The first part of this question is simple, and I will try to answer that. The second one, the other one, I will try at least to give you an answer. Namely, in my opinion, the units that have are included by the capacity market support mechanism that have and will have after 2025, such support mechanism in place, should be economically feasible, viable. We have such units in Poland. There are such ones that have a capacity market contracts in place, or one ones that will be taking part in the auctions.

That's one thing, but that's not the only pre-requisite, because it seems to me that, I'm talking here about the 35 efficiency rate units, so the popularly called 200 megawatt units. As I mentioned during my first statement, the CDS, so the difference between the sales price, expected sales price and the variable cost, is at this point, far from zero. So it seems that the support from the capacity market is, first of all, is necessary to cover the fixed cost, and secondly, the ongoing production also has to be economically viable. Therefore, as of now, without the capacity market support, those units practically do not have good outlook. But the situation might be different regarding the 1000 megawatt units... type units. This keeps changing quite frequently.

It could be momentarily on the plus side, momentarily on the minus side, regarding the economic results of such electric generation. But the support from the capacity market is key in order to stabilize the economical sense of production. Regarding the second part of this question, namely, the issue of coal assets could be resolved by the shutdown of a power plant, it seems to me that the problem is so complex that it's hard to say whether this problem will be, could be resolved if the power plants were to be shut down. So we are working on this complex problem. It usually happens so that the problems cannot resolve by themselves, don't resolve themselves. So this topic is where today is difficult to get good profitability on renewables, that's the first outlook.

In order to achieve adequate indicators, you need to build more complicated models. So combining production and storage using various methods and combining it with the takeover by the customers, that's our enormous strength, by group, with combining the generation sources. On the other hand, the customer base, almost six million customers, with a certain well-defined profile, with the ability to store electricity, also using the heat assets, which gives us an opportunity to build positive models. So we're not just focusing on looking for projects related to the production, but right away, want to place this electricity into our customer base. So that's our goal, so to make green our entire, this is, supply portfolio.

Second thing, I'd like to unequivocally state, and we know and we are aware of the fact that the 200 megawatt units that Piotr mentioned, something like that, but the possibility of those units is difficult to be achieved without the support mechanism. The support mechanism expires as of 2025. Today, we are working very intensely on preparing ourselves the situation of what will happen following 2026. We are in a dialogue with the government and also with the other partners, such as PSE, the TSO, and we are communicating the need to provide support, to obtain the support mechanism for those 200 megawatt units. With Alexander Wely, we are talking also to the workforce, to the social partners.

We're communicating various types of scenarios, but always our objective, in order to ensure the stabilization of electricity market in Poland, to get this support mechanism so that during the transition and the transition period, those 200 megawatts could be operated, of course, for, at a, for a very small percentage of hours during the year. But we are aware of the fact that without those units, the system might face major problems. Thank you very much. Okay, ladies and gentlemen, one more question has arrived. We are trying to check whether any further questions you have. "How much would, should- would have to be the price of a ready-made PV farm per megawatt, per 1 megawatt, so that according to the APP model, you could get a positive NPV?" Ladies and gentlemen, first of all, to a certain extent, the farms differ between one another.

Of course, maybe that is not so big. So it's a matter of scale, the magnitude of the OpEx, ultimate OpEx, and the minor differences in productivity that occur between them. However, here, I wouldn't be willing to disclose our price projections. That's our secret sauce , how we value a farm. It must be less than the recent prices in the previous years, but the function of how we see the market for the next 25 years, for the time that the farm will be operated, how we see the profit, the PV will take as its own, what's the possibility of the allocation within our internal Tauron Group portfolio. So please excuse me, I will not give you a specific answer. It depends. It's a case-by-case answer. Secondly, indirect talks with the partners, we conduct price negotiation.

We are trying to get the best condition, the best profitability for Tauron Group. But, along with my colleagues from abroad, we can unequivocally state that if the person who is asking those, those very tricky questions, thank you very much, has a good offer, sales offer at a very good price, we'll be willing to proceed to the negotiations. We are reviewing a number of many products. We are on the path, hunting for good projects and the various models, so that in the shortest possible time, the electricity that we sell to our customers is green. This is this process that's underway. We are communicating that each time via various channels, but here now, this is the time also to come to us, and negotiate with us the terms and conditions. Łukasz, can I read the last question?

I hope you didn't write that. Unfortunately, ladies and gentlemen, I... The president sees the list of questions that you are sending, and surprisingly, first time it just happened, but the conference is not ending with a question. But I think if the president wishes so, definitely, I'll hand it over to you, Łukasz. Well, someone sent us congratulations for another excellent conference. It was also a pleasure for us to meet you. I also wanted to remind you again that we are inviting you to the next meeting, that we'll be having directly after publishing the financial report for first half of 2024. We'll inform you of the date of the conference call in a traditional manner. Thank you very much for meeting. Wish you a good day. See you next time. Thank you.

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