AMERISAFE, Inc. (AMSF)
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Sep 11, 2026, 4:00 PM EDT - Market closed
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Earnings Call: Q3 2014

Oct 30, 2014

Operator

Good day, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the AMERISAFE Incorporated third quarter earnings call. At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode. Later, we will conduct a question and answer session, and instructions will be given at that time. If anyone should require assistance during the conference, please press star then zero on your touch-tone telephone to reach an operator. As a reminder, this conference call is being recorded. I would now like to turn the call over to Mike Grasher, Chief Financial Officer. Sir, you may begin.

Michael Grasher
CFO, AMERISAFE

Thank you. Good morning, everyone, and welcome to the AMERISAFE Third Quarter 2014 Investor Call. If you have not received the earnings release, it is available on our website at www.amerisafe.com. This call is being recorded. A replay of today's call will be available. Details on how to access the replay are in the earnings release. During this call, we will be making forward-looking statements. These statements are based on current expectations and assumptions that are subject to various risks and uncertainties. Actual results could materially differ because of factors discussed in today's earnings release, in the comments made during this call, and in the Risk Factors section of our Form 10-K, Form 10-Qs, and other reports and filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission. We do not undertake any duty to update any forward-looking statement. I will now turn the call over to Allen Bradley, AMERISAFE's Chairman and CEO.

C. Allen Bradley Jr.
Chairman and CEO, AMERISAFE

Thanks, Mike. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you for joining AMERISAFE's quarterly earnings call. As usual, I'll make a few remarks and then turn the call over to Janelle Frost and Mike Grasher for details on the company's performance. Despite an increase in competition, the workers' compensation market remains attractive in terms of pricing. We expect industry pricing to plateau or perhaps drift downwards slightly over the next few quarters. We expect to see modest increases in exposures, but certainly nothing dramatic. All things considered, it's a good time to be in the workers' compensation business. There are, however, a number of factors, both positive and negative, which could materially affect the direction of the market in the coming years and the coming quarters. Positive factors include the continued improvement in loss frequency, coupled with a general muted growth in severity of claims.

The modest improving national economy is positively impacting premium growth. Additionally, a number of weaker and/or impaired carriers have exited the workers' compensation market, resulting in a more prudent underwriting environment among the remaining stronger carriers. The results of this improved environment should be revealed in financial results over the next year or two. Negative factors that could change the market in an adverse fashion include, but are not limited to, falling loss costs and rates, which could work to offset the growth in exposures by an improved economy. New sources of reinsurance may provide capacity to carriers that lack either the expertise to write workers' compensation profitably or the capital to otherwise compete. A change in demand for the product arising from the shifting composition of the U.S. workforce in favor of more service-related employment.

That sort of employment generates less premium per unit of exposure and would therefore put downward pressure on market expansion. The potential proliferation of opt-out systems replacing traditional workers' compensation systems is a threat to the market as a whole, as is the elimination or restriction of exclusive remedy status of workers' compensation, as we've seen in some recent court decisions. Finally, the impact of the ACA on the general marketplace for healthcare could be disruptive to both the cost and availability of healthcare to injured workers. The ultimate outcome of these and other factors is unknown at this time. As the management of AMERISAFE, it is our responsibility to manage these risks and other risks similar to it to produce superior returns for our shareholders.

Speaking of shareholders, our board of directors has demonstrated again its continued focus on shareholder returns and the effective management of the company's capital. As you no doubt noted in our earnings release, our board declared an extraordinary dividend of $1 per share payable in December. This extraordinary dividend comes as our board has reassessed the previous extraordinary dividend that was declared earlier this year. While our board reviews capital management quarterly, any necessary adjustments to that capital will probably occur on an annual basis in the future. Finally, the board also declared our regular quarterly dividend of $0.12 per share, also payable December. With that, I'll turn the call over to Janelle Frost, our President and Chief Operating Officer.

G. Janelle Frost
President and COO, AMERISAFE

Thank you, Allen, good morning, everyone. We were pleased with the operating results this third quarter. Our combined ratio was 86.4%, down 6.1 percentage points from the third quarter last year. Our top line grew $7.8 million, or 9.1% during the quarter. Policies written in the quarter accounted for $3.6 million of the growth, of which new business grew 1.8%. Renewal business was driven by policy retention of 91.3%, compared to 91.1% in the third quarter of 2013. Premium retention was 84.4%, compared to 82.9% in the third quarter last year. As anticipated, our retention slipped in policies with over $100,000 in premiums. Retention is one measure we key on regarding pricing considerations, and as we've stated over the last few quarters, we felt we had reached a peak in pricing, particularly on tenured renewal accounts.

It is no surprise that our average effective loss cost multiplier, or ELCM, for voluntary premium in the quarter was 1.80, compared to 1.82 in the third quarter last year. This was a slight and intentional decrease designed to retain the business we know best. In addition, audit premium and related adjustments remained positive this quarter at $4.6 million, an increase of $4 million from third quarter last year. This was a reflection of actual payrolls on expiring policies being higher than anticipated. Relative to losses, our current accident year loss and LAE ratio remained at 71.5% this quarter. We continue to see favorable frequency trends. Our claims reported in the calendar year 2014 were up 0.4%, from 4,228 claims to 4,387 claims. The quarter was positively impacted by favorable development from prior accident years.

Encouraging trends in case development led to $6.8 million of favorable loss development in the quarter, compared to $2.7 million of favorable development in the third quarter of 2013. This quarter's development was primarily attributable to case development in accident years 2005, 2010, and 2012. Finally, our expense ratio also decreased to 21.9% this quarter, compared to 22.6% in last year's third quarter. Mike will provide the details on expenses. This quarter's decrease in the ratio was driven by growth in earned premium exceeding the growth in fixed operating costs. That concludes my prepared remarks. I now turn to Mike for discussion on the financials.

Michael Grasher
CFO, AMERISAFE

Thank you, Janelle. For the third quarter of 2014, AMERISAFE reported net income of $13.5 million, or $0.71 per diluted share, compared to $9.7 million or $0.52 per diluted share in the third quarter of 2013. Operating net income reached $13.6 million or $0.72 per share in the third quarter of 2014, a 33.3% increase from the year ago period. Revenues in the third quarter grew 16.3% to $102.3 million as compared to the third quarter of 2013. Net premiums earned increased 17.6% from the year ago quarter, benefiting from favorable growth trends and our 2014 reinsurance treaty. As Janelle mentioned, gross premiums written rose 9.1% from the year ago quarter, while net premiums written climbed 10.4%.

The difference in the increase between gross and net reflects the impact of our 2014 reinsurance treaty as we retain an additional $1 million on the first layer and thus cede less premium to the reinsurers. Net investment income totaled $6.5 million in the third quarter of 2014, falling 6.5% from last year's third quarter. The tax equivalent yield on our investment portfolio dropped 40 basis points to 3.5% in the third quarter of 2014 from the third quarter of 2013. The portfolio continues to carry a double A minus rating with an average duration of approximately 3.1 years and remains quite liquid, with approximately 30% of the portfolio running off over the next 15 months. At the same time, nearly 55% of our investment portfolio, including cash and short-term investments, is comprised of held-to-maturity securities, which now hold unrealized gain positions of approximately $26.7 million.

Turning to expenses, our current accident year loss ratio for the quarter remained 71.5% compared to 73.2% a year ago. Our incurred loss and loss adjustment expenses totaled $61.8 million for the quarter, which included $6.8 million of favorable prior year development, which, as Janelle mentioned, was attributable to accident years 2012, 2010, and 2005. This compares to loss and loss adjustment expenses of $57 million in last year's third quarter, which included $2.7 million of favorable prior year development. In total, our net calendar year loss ratio for the third quarter of 2014 was 64.4% compared to 69.9% one year ago. With regard to operating expenses, total underwriting and other expenses increased 13.8% to $21 million compared to $18.5 million in the third quarter of 2013. Even though we experienced an increase in terms of dollars, the expense ratio itself actually declined 70 basis points to 21.9%.

The decline in the expense ratio reflects the impact of continued growth on our top line, as well as our diligence on controllable operating expenses. All this despite lower accruals for ceding commission and contingent profit commissions. Controllable expenses rose by approximately $900,000, driven by long-term compensation, while our ceding commission and contingent profit contingent accruals dropped by approximately $1.3 million, both relative to third quarter 2013 results. By category, the 2014 third quarter expense components include $6.2 million of salaries and benefits, $7 million of commissions, and $7.8 million of underwriting and other costs. In total, our combined ratio was 86.4% for the third quarter versus 92.5% for the same period in 2013. On the capital management front, during the third quarter, the company paid its regular quarterly cash dividend of $0.12 per share.

On October 28th, the board of directors declared a quarterly cash dividend of $0.12 per share, payable on December 26th to shareholders of record as of December 12th, 2014. In addition to the quarterly cash dividend, the board also declared an extraordinary dividend of $1 per share, reflecting the board and management's proactive approach to returning excess capital to stakeholders, as well as the favorable outlook for AMERISAFE. Combined, these dividend payments will total $21.1 million, and for the year will sum to $37.1 million of capital being returned to shareholders. Finally, a few other items. Return on average equity for the third quarter of 2014 was 12.2% compared to 9.8% for the third quarter of 2013. Year to date, our return on average equity is now 11.3%.

Book value per share at September 30, 2014, was $23.85, an increase of 10% from September 30, 2013, and is up 6.4% year to date. Cash flows from operations remain strong, up $4.2 million to $104 million for the nine-month period ended September 30, 2014. Lastly, our statutory surplus was $389.4 million at quarter end. That concludes my prepared remarks on the financials, and I will now turn the discussion back to Allen.

C. Allen Bradley Jr.
Chairman and CEO, AMERISAFE

Thanks, Michael. Well, I think Janelle and Michael explained the quarter very well, so why don't we open it up for questions?

Operator

Sure. Ladies and gentlemen, if you have a question at this time, please press the star, then the number 1 key on your touchtone telephone. If your question has been answered or you wish to move yourself from the queue, please press the pound key. Our first question comes from Matthew Carletti of JMP Securities. Your line is open.

Matthew Carletti
Analyst, JMP Securities

Hey, good morning.

Michael Grasher
CFO, AMERISAFE

Morning, Matt.

C. Allen Bradley Jr.
Chairman and CEO, AMERISAFE

Morning.

Matthew Carletti
Analyst, JMP Securities

A few questions. First one is, Allen, we've I guess gone through nine months and the top line growth level's been pretty stable in the 8% ± range. Can you update us on just kind of, I know you've talked in the past quarters about a few maybe upcoming initiatives, a lot of it in the energy space and just kind of your outlook for where you see those growth opportunities and if this sort of level we've seen is, not looking for projections of any sort, but let's just say kind of a comfortable level?

C. Allen Bradley Jr.
Chairman and CEO, AMERISAFE

Yeah. Well, it's kind of hard to predict how it would work out in the future. Let me give you maybe some insight into things that largely Janelle has done with regard to our business. As she pointed out in her comments, we reviewed our pricing on our renewal business to make sure we were able to keep that business which we knew the best. We compromised some on pricing there. Certainly, it plateaued, and we saw benefits that came to us from doing that. We feel better about that. We also have initiatives that are targeted, and we've seen growth in the construction and the trucking side of our business. The oil and gas business and some of the new construction that is targeting the shale gas is another focus where we're spending some time and effort. We see competition.

From time to time can be pretty sharp, but generally speaking, it is not. Generally speaking, we see the underwriters acting very responsibly. We want to focus on those. We've identified targets in industries and actual industry groups in every one of the states in which we sell policies. We are putting incentives in place for submissions that result in policies being submitted to us in those areas which we want to grow the most.

Matthew Carletti
Analyst, JMP Securities

Okay. That's very helpful. Shifting to capital management, I think everybody's quite happy to see the special dividend, bringing it to $1.50 this year. Tying together your starting capital position, which is less than where you'd like to be in terms of operating leverage, and your comments around growth. Is it, without having you predict the board's actions, but am I thinking about it right, that as we move forward, and think about if the street is anywhere close to, or even take this current year's run rate in terms of an earnings level at least for the foreseeable future, and if the stock stays in the valuation range that it is, that we could see some growth in that special dividend in the sense that you're still growing capital at this point.

$1.50 is a great start. You're going to earn something well in excess of that and arguably ditto next year and the year after. Is it your view that there's upside to that number, granted it'll probably be an annual exercise?

C. Allen Bradley Jr.
Chairman and CEO, AMERISAFE

Well, first of all, make it clear that we've done two this year. One was the initial extraordinary that this company is the first one we've ever done.

Matthew Carletti
Analyst, JMP Securities

Yep.

C. Allen Bradley Jr.
Chairman and CEO, AMERISAFE

Naturally, the approach of the board of directors was to be cautious on that. They reassessed that position later in the year in the supplement. I think we want to get clear in everyone's mind not to think about this as a twice-a-year function, but more of a once-a-year function.

Matthew Carletti
Analyst, JMP Securities

Right.

C. Allen Bradley Jr.
Chairman and CEO, AMERISAFE

If you move it to the third quarter, it can have a more positive impact in terms of return on equity as you look out to the next years. I will tell you this, without speaking for the board or getting above my raising on this. They look at capital very closely every quarter. Our board is very familiar with operational leverage and the impact it has on ROE. Also a lot of other things that we don't talk about on these calls with respect to where our reserves sit and what opportunities we see for growth or what opportunities we see for potential acquisitions. I think all of that mixes together.

I think that the key takeaway from the addition to the extraordinary dividend that we paid earlier this year is that the board is very well aware of it, and they're going to take steps that make it prudent and appropriate returns of capital with a view to maintaining the A rating, maximizing in a prudent way our operating leverage, and making sure that this company is extremely solvent and well-positioned to take advantage of growth.

Matthew Carletti
Analyst, JMP Securities

Great.

Michael Grasher
CFO, AMERISAFE

One thing I would add to that, Allen.

Matthew Carletti
Analyst, JMP Securities

Yeah

Michael Grasher
CFO, AMERISAFE

Matt, is that, look, don't forget the business we're in. It's a very volatile business from the standpoint of losses. One never knows when they discover the slip and falls out there that maybe are occurring. Gravity is always present.

Matthew Carletti
Analyst, JMP Securities

Very true. One housekeeping item and I'll get out of the way. I appreciate your comments on pricing plateauing, just in terms, I'm sorry if I missed it, just the LCM in the quarter, just for modeling purposes. Do you have that?

G. Janelle Frost
President and COO, AMERISAFE

Yeah. The quarter was 180 for third quarter this year versus 182 third quarter last year.

Matthew Carletti
Analyst, JMP Securities

Great. Thanks very much, congrats on the quarter.

C. Allen Bradley Jr.
Chairman and CEO, AMERISAFE

Okay. By the way, Matt, just for your year to date, the LCM is 184.

Matthew Carletti
Analyst, JMP Securities

Wonderful. Thank you.

C. Allen Bradley Jr.
Chairman and CEO, AMERISAFE

All right. Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. Our next question comes from Randy Binner of FBR. Your line is open.

Jason Oetting
Analyst, FBR

Hi, this is actually Jason Oetting for Randy today. How are you?

G. Janelle Frost
President and COO, AMERISAFE

Good morning, Jason.

C. Allen Bradley Jr.
Chairman and CEO, AMERISAFE

Doing well, thanks, Jason. Good morning.

Jason Oetting
Analyst, FBR

Good. My first question is actually on the tax rate. It's a little bit elevated this quarter. Aside from better underwriting results, I was just wondering if there's anything special or something we should know that's going on in that number?

Michael Grasher
CFO, AMERISAFE

No. You captured it. Just the better underwriting results are driving that. The favorable development that occurred in the quarter, as well as throughout the year.

Jason Oetting
Analyst, FBR

Okay, fair enough. On net investment income, it was a touch lighter than I think we would've expected. I was just wondering, is there maybe a slight allocation shift in the portfolio, or maybe is it just lower yields?

Michael Grasher
CFO, AMERISAFE

It's primarily lower yield. We have maintained sort of that AA- rating. There's been really no shift in terms of quality when you look at security types. The most recent quarter, I'd tell you, there were probably a few more corporates purchased, duration remained the same, basically right at the three-year mark. The reinvestment rate's about 1.6%. Given where the portfolio is running off versus what we're reinvesting at, that should be your run rate as you think about it going forward.

Jason Oetting
Analyst, FBR

Okay. I think if I look back historically, munis have kind of come down. Are you still shifting more to corporates or-

Michael Grasher
CFO, AMERISAFE

That's been the most recent trend. Again, it's sort of taking a picture of what's going on in the market on a day-to-day basis and finding those opportunities, whether it be munis or corporates.

Jason Oetting
Analyst, FBR

Okay. A last one, if I may. Earlier you talked about growth in oil and gas and a few of the other areas. When you think about your overall premium distribution, how do you visualize your ideal pie, if you will? Do you want to increase certain areas more than others or maybe kind of pull back in certain industries?

C. Allen Bradley Jr.
Chairman and CEO, AMERISAFE

Well, first of all, let me give you my smart aleck answer. We want to grow where we're making more money.

Jason Oetting
Analyst, FBR

Always.

C. Allen Bradley Jr.
Chairman and CEO, AMERISAFE

While it's a little bit of a smart aleck answer, it's also the basis of our targeted growth. We take multiple years of data, segregate them on a state-by-state basis by the SIC codes, and determine what factors are more attractive for us to grow as opposed to others. Oil and gas growth actually, Jason, affects several SIC codes. Construction, transportation, manufacturing, all of those can grow out of an energy expansion. We're seeing a lot of that being actually dictated by what's going on in the economy now with the shale gas and a lot of those things are driving parts of that. I think of us as probably a 40%-45% construction business, somewhere in the low 20s in the trucking, perhaps a bit more in the oil and gas now.

A few years ago, agriculture had grown to be a larger part that has backed off a little bit, and oil and gas has come up. Really what we're looking for are those things in those locations that have historically provided us, over the last 6 to 10 years, a superior return. That's where we'd like to see it grow. A general mix, 40-45 on construction, 20%-23%, 24% on transportation, and then the other shifting around where the opportunities exist.

Jason Oetting
Analyst, FBR

Okay. Those responses are helpful. Thank you.

C. Allen Bradley Jr.
Chairman and CEO, AMERISAFE

Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. Again, ladies and gentlemen, if you have a question at this time, please press the star then the number 1 key on your touchtone telephone. Our next question comes from Mark Hughes of SunTrust. Your line is open.

Mark Hughes
Analyst, SunTrust

The LCM in the quarter, the 1.8 down sequentially, in what had been increasing and stable climate. Could you talk about your strategy there? I know you had mentioned that you were wanting to make sure that you were getting certain accounts renewed. Was that kind of a one-quarter phenomenon as you got past some of these renewals, or is this something we should expect to persist? Is this the new normal in terms of LCM?

G. Janelle Frost
President and COO, AMERISAFE

Good question, Mark. The drop in our LCM for the quarter was in the renewal business alone. The new business did not drop. At this point, we don't see that, and we don't anticipate that dropping. Is that a continual drop? It depends on what's going on in the market. I think Allen alluded to in his remarks that we have seen some rate decreases from the states. I think we're at 3 to 1 decreases versus increases at this point for the year. We are very cognizant of that fact. At the same time, on those tenured renewal accounts, the accounts we know best, the accounts that we know are profitable, we are very attentive to the cumulative net rate change that they've experienced over their tenure with AMERISAFE. That's what's changing in the mix for us.

Mark Hughes
Analyst, SunTrust

That phenomenon will still flow through subsequent quarters, I assume?

G. Janelle Frost
President and COO, AMERISAFE

Yes, I think so. I believe so. Keeping in mind, we are keeping our eye on the underlying rates by the states.

C. Allen Bradley Jr.
Chairman and CEO, AMERISAFE

Yes, let me just amplify that a little bit, if I might. The loss cost, as I comment, the loss cost, and Janelle commented, the loss cost and the rates, let's exclude rates because that's all in, but the loss cost in most states are falling. There's about three loss cost reductions for every one loss cost increase across the country. Even if the LCM were to stay the same, since it's an index multiplied against the loss cost, the premium itself would trend down. We're trying to make sure the clients look at it in terms of what they pay, the net rate. We're trying to adjust that as we go along, and not just be cemented into a number on the loss cost itself. When you see these rate reductions in states versus rate increases, that's the aggregate across 600 or 700 class codes.

How an individual class code is impacted is maybe dramatically different from the overall aggregate. It's very tailored to the account and designed on our renewal business to keep those accounts that have performed well for a long period of time, that we know best. For new business, we're not nearly as aggressive with respect to that.

Mark Hughes
Analyst, SunTrust

What did you say regarding frequency and severity that you've seen lately?

C. Allen Bradley Jr.
Chairman and CEO, AMERISAFE

my initial comments were about the industry as a whole.

the industry as a whole and AMERISAFE are both experiencing a decline in frequency, which continues on. whether it's measured on a payroll basis or a premium basis, both have indicated continued declines across the country for the industry and certainly for us. In addition to that, Gosh, I hate to get too excited about this because every time you say something positive, then something negative happens. we've seen sort of a muted growth in the severity of claims. One of the things that the NCCI has noted has been a noticeable drop-off in the use of Schedule II opioids. the Schedule II narcotics are a big driver of cost, and not just the drug cost itself, but the impact it has on the return of the injured worker back to the workforce. we're taking that as a positive.

Back to my other comments, our concern about the ACA is that since workers' comp is the last bastion of fee-for-service business in the healthcare industry and a lot of other folks, group health and otherwise, have more leverage with the providers, we may find ourselves with delays in receiving treatment, which could be very adverse to us.

Mark Hughes
Analyst, SunTrust

the muted growth and severity, is that an ongoing deceleration? Was it more muted in your recent experience, Q3, compared to what it was earlier?

C. Allen Bradley Jr.
Chairman and CEO, AMERISAFE

I'm looking back over the last two years for the industry.

The claims get bigger every year. Okay? I'm just saying it didn't grow as great a rate.

Mark Hughes
Analyst, SunTrust

Right

C. Allen Bradley Jr.
Chairman and CEO, AMERISAFE

as it had been in the past.

Mark Hughes
Analyst, SunTrust

Right. Okay. Your point about competition was that the underwriters were being more prudent. Do you see moves among any of the bigger players that are notable? You've, from time to time in the past, have been open to.

C. Allen Bradley Jr.
Chairman and CEO, AMERISAFE

Yeah

Mark Hughes
Analyst, SunTrust

naming names. I'm curious whether you've got anything to say this time around.

C. Allen Bradley Jr.
Chairman and CEO, AMERISAFE

Well, I will tell you this. I guess I should be consistent and name names when they do good and they do bad. The large writers that we see across the country of workers' comp, names that you recognize as someone that follows public companies, I wouldn't say anyone was acting irrationally. That doesn't mean that one of our salespeople or when an underwriter might talk about a particular account was one way or another. Consistently, there's been a lot of responsibility that we've seen in the marketplace. Smaller players, individual players in states, some people that have extremely rapid growth characteristics are certainly more aggressive in their pricing. Although most of those are not spending most of their time in our part of the business.

In the high hazard business, that's not a place to get real aggressive very quickly unless you kind of want the express lane to liquidation or being placed into runoff or whatever.

Mark Hughes
Analyst, SunTrust

Right. What did you say? I see that the audits are up. I know you had an easier year-over-year comparison. What was your commentary regarding payroll trends that you saw in the quarter?

G. Janelle Frost
President and COO, AMERISAFE

Yeah. We've continued to see positive audit trends. We internally joke, Janelle called it wrong six quarters ago, so I'll continue to be wrong. It's in our primary industries, construction, trucking, oil and gas. We've seen positive payroll growth. We're interpreting into that our insureds are working more than they anticipated. We think it's longer work weeks, which we like, rather than new workers. We've seen it across the board. The only declines I've really seen of note would probably be in manufacturing, and it's a smaller part of our business. We have seen it there and in the services industries. The audit premium growth has been pretty much across the board.

Mark Hughes
Analyst, SunTrust

Thank you very much.

C. Allen Bradley Jr.
Chairman and CEO, AMERISAFE

By the way, Mark, we decided before the call that Janelle had to answer that question.

G. Janelle Frost
President and COO, AMERISAFE

They like me saying I was wrong again and again and again.

Mark Hughes
Analyst, SunTrust

Right. Yep.

Operator

Thank you. I'd now like to turn the call back over to Allen Bradley for closing remarks.

C. Allen Bradley Jr.
Chairman and CEO, AMERISAFE

Thank you. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen, for joining us today. The third quarter was a very solid quarter for AMERISAFE, and the company remains well-positioned to provide continued underwriting margins, profitability, and superior returns to our shareholders. Thank you very much.

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for participating in today's conference. This does conclude the program. You may all disconnect. Everyone, have a great day.