Hey, Samycon. All right. Up next, we're pleased to have Bread Financial joining us once again. Bread's continued to execute on its strategy of improving its financial position by reducing leverage, building capital, and managing credit in a challenging backdrop. It continues to maintain a leading position in the private label business, and it should be well-positioned to improve returns in the coming years. Joining us, we have CEO Ralph Andretta and Chief Financial Officer Perry Beberman. Ralph's gonna give us a short update on the company, and then we'll move to Q&A.
All right.
All right. Hold on. I think we're in and out.
Ryan, thank you, and thank you all for your interest in us.
Yeah. Come on.
Before we get to Q&A, I'm gonna just start and give a brief update, then I'm gonna turn it over to Perry to continue, and then we'd love to take your questions and all the questions. So if you go to the first slide, you know, our focus areas have been consistent throughout the year, and they've remained really at the forefront of our 2024 focus. Let me briefly discuss each of them. First, growing responsibly. Given the changing, challenging macroeconomic landscape driven by persistent inflation, consumers have been moderating their spend and focusing on non-discretionary purchases throughout 2024. This, coupled with our prudent credit tightening, has led, as expected, to softer loan growth for the year. However, by diversifying our products and adding quality partners, we've positioned ourselves well to return to long-term growth targets once macroeconomic pressures abate.
Importantly, we're able to tailor our offerings to meet the changing needs of our partners and customers while delivering industry-leading risk-adjusted returns. Second, managing the macroeconomic and regulatory environment. Even with the change in the presidential administration in January, which is expected to be balanced on regulation, the final CFPB rule is still in effect, albeit it's in a stay in the court. But as a result, we continue to implement our strategies intended to mitigate the potential impact should that CFPB ruling go into effect. Third and fourth, accelerating digital and technology capabilities and driving Operational Excellence. Our investment in our digital and technology capabilities are ongoing, and I'm really proud that we've been able to fund those enhancements as a result of our Operational Excellence efforts.
For example, on our technology front, just last year, we saw nearly 30% of our applications and about $11 billion of spend come through our mobile app. More specifically, regarding operational excellence, our goal is four: one, improve the customer experience, two, enhance enterprise-wide efficiency, three, reduce risk, and four, create value. Overall, we expect to continue to generate strong returns through prudent capital and risk management. We are committed to driving sustainable, profitable growth and building long-term value for our shareholders throughout both dynamic economic and regulatory environments. If you turn to slide three, this reflects the outcome of expanding and diversifying our products and partners over the last five years. We now offer a fully integrated suite of products that consists of private label, co-brand, proprietary credit cards, as well as Bread Pay. Bread Pay is our installment lending and buy now, pay later platform.
Together, these products have improved our company's credit risk and growth profile. Our expanded product suite has led to gains in consumers' wallets, and more non-discretionary spend, particularly as consumers have shifted their spending patterns given macroeconomic pressures. Co-brand and proprietary represent more than 50% of our total credit sales, and we expect this ongoing shift in consumer and partner preferences to continue. If you move to the chart on the right, we are well-diversified across our approximately 100 brand partners with several partner additions in travel, entertainment, and electronics, including AAA, Dell, Hard Rock Hotels, HP, and the NFL. As a result of our business wins in partner growth, travel and entertainment is now our largest vertical from a sales perspective at 32% of total credit sales, up 10%, that was just 10% in the third quarter of 2019.
We also have seen measurable growth in the health and beauty sector and have become the partner of choice for many top brand partners, including Ulta and Sephora. Health and beauty credit sales have nearly doubled over the past five years to 19% of total sales in the third quarter of 2024. We are confident that our product and partner diversification provides stability and will help us achieve our long-term financial targets while delivering strong, sustainable shareholder returns. With that, I'm gonna turn it over to Perry. Perry.
Thanks, Ralph. Before getting into the slides, I wanna touch upon the monthly performance report that was released this morning. The delinquency rate was down 20 basis points month over month for November at 6.2%, following normal seasonal trends, while the net loss rate increased slightly to 8.0%.
As we mentioned in our third quarter earnings call and at another recent industry conference, the net loss rate was impacted by the customer-friendly actions we have taken for customers impacted by the recent hurricanes. These actions will result in a reduction to fourth quarter 2024 losses of around $12 million and will increase second quarter 2025 losses, elevating our net loss rates in May and June of 2025. In the fourth quarter, the November net loss rate benefited by approximately 40 basis points, while as previously disclosed, October also benefited by approximately 40 basis points. Moving to the slides. Slide four is one of my favorite slides as it depicts our durable profit margin, highlighting the financial resilience of our business and our ability to accrete capital even in challenging macroeconomic environments.
This is a result of our focus on making responsible business decisions and our expertise in managing credit risk and profitability. In other words, we get paid for the risk that we take even during periods of elevated losses. Our PP&R margin for the last three years has been around 11%. That implies in any scenario where our annual net loss rate is below 11%, our risk-adjusted PPNR margin would remain positive. Risk-adjusted loan yield is another metric we track that demonstrates how we are compensated for the risk we take. Our risk-adjusted loan yield is industry-leading at 18.9% on average over the last four quarters, with our closest peer trailing by approximately 380 basis points. We also prudently maintain a loan loss reserve substantially higher than our day-one CECL rate, given the current macroeconomic environment, with a third quarter 2024 reserve rate at 12.2%.
Finally, due to our ongoing credit tightening actions and more diversified product mix, we've been able to maintain a steady credit risk distribution over the past seven quarters despite continued inflationary pressures. The percentage of cardholders with a 660-plus credit score is around 57%. We'll continue to proactively manage credit to protect our balance sheet and drive profitability. Moving to slide five, another one of my favorites, and may actually be my new favorite, you can see the significant progress we have made in strengthening our balance sheet over the past three years. Our common tier-one capital ratio has increased 270 basis points since 2021 to 13.3% in the third quarter of 2024, reflecting the positive momentum toward our medium-term target of 14%.
Over the last three years, we have reduced parent-level debt by 62% and continue to take steps to optimize our capital and debt stacks, including the repurchase of the majority of our convertible notes that I discussed in our third quarter earnings call. Our double-leverage ratio is now well below our target of less than 115%, and we anticipate that it will remain below our target going forward. We'll continue to opportunistically optimize our debt stack by paying off the remaining outstanding $100 million bond stub and repurchasing available remaining convertible notes. Finally, our tangible book value of more than $47 per share has grown at a 15% compound annual growth rate since the third quarter of 2021. We are proud of the actions we have taken over the past few years and throughout 2024 to continue to strengthen our balance sheet.
This progress, among other factors, resulted in improved rating outlooks from stable to positive from both Moody's and Fitch just one year after our inaugural rating. In closing, Bread Financial is in a position of greater strength with increased capital flexibility and financial resilience, and we are committed to driving long-term value for our shareholders. Ryan, I'll turn it over to you for questions.
Great. Thanks, Perry. Ralph, maybe I'll kick it off with you. So 2024 was characterized by rising losses and inflation, although there were several good things coming out of the company, a lot of which Perry just highlighted: strengthened balance sheet, new business wins. As you look ahead, you know, what are the key areas you're focused on for Bread Financial as we move into 2025?
Yeah. I know. I, I should have highlighted that. Perry got the good stuff.
He took all the good stuff.
Took all the good stuff. You know, you know, I think going into 2025, I think some of the things we did in 2024 are gonna help us and give us good momentum into 2025. You know, we continue to diversify our product set and our verticals. In fact, you know, we added Saks, which is a great partner to have in 2024. We have, you know, added the Hard Rock Hotels that's in de novo. We're gonna grow that. So those are really good kinda marquee.
Yep.
Partners to add. Secondly, you know, we can continue to invest in technology. We invested in technology in 2024. Now, our top 25 partners, probably as we exit this year, will be on our mobile app. And then, you know, as we enter into the beginning of next year, the rest of our partnerships will be on a mobile app. Just think, four years ago, we were digitally behind. Now, we're digitally ahead. You know, and you know, even though Perry talked about it, this is a proud slide for me to, you know, strengthen the balance sheet. And, you know, now we're operating from a position of strength, right? Before, we didn't have a good balance sheet. We have a good, strong balance sheet now. We're building capital. I think it's very important.
And if I look at, you know, what we're gonna do in 2025 is what we did in 2024. We're gonna grow responsibly, right? We're gonna grow at the pace that makes sense for us to grow, that's gonna give us good returns. We're gonna continue to invest in technology. I think that's important. You know, operational excellence has put some wind on our behind, you know, at our back from an expense perspective. You know, the regulatory environment is still there. We're gonna kinda manage, manage that, manage that as well.
So, I feel, you know, those things are, you know, gonna continue to, you know, focus on what's important and, you know, not take our eye off the ball and continue to do what we do, which is methodically grow this business, manage expenses, strengthen the balance sheet, and, you know, whatever the regulatory comeuppance may, we'll manage it.
In a minute, you're talking about what I'm sure is your favorite topic, late fees. I guess, you know, given the election and recent court rulings, maybe just talk about what it means for, you know, your business and the overall late rule.
Yeah.
Late fee rule.
So I think a couple of things, right? So you know, this new administration coming in, I think they're fair and balanced when it comes to regulation. I think that's a good place to be. By no means are they a pushover. I worked with them before.
Mm-hmm.
Right? So they're fair and balanced. You know, as it comes to, you know, it comes to late fees, you know, it's, it's, you know, held up in the, you know, in, in the court in Texas. But from my perspective, it's not, it's not disposed of yet. It's still there. So until we see the outcome of late fees, we'll continue to, you know, put our mitigation plans in place and, and, and move that forward. I think that's important. I'm proud of the our organization 'cause we rallied.
Mm-hmm.
You know, again, it was, you know, when late fees came out, that's the end of Bread Financial, right? It was like when, you know, when the pandemic hit, but with the team rallied and focused on what we needed to do to, you know, to mitigate the impact of late fees. We'll see where that goes. You know, I know as much as everybody else knows, but, you know, I think the, you know, if you read the ruling, it was, you know, on the merits, it's a good case.
Perry, how far along are you in the mitigation efforts? And, can you remind us what some of the actions you've taken and the cadence to start to see these flowing through earnings?
Yeah. You know, as Ralph said, you know, this, you know, the late fee rule is not completely resolved yet. I mean, as of Friday, it sounds like, and even this morning, I think something came out where the judges requested briefings, and those will be submitted by December 23rd. And from what we understand, that will flow into probably the first quarter of next year, by April. And then you got a period of time.
Okay.
Maybe about six months or so before the judge might rule. So we're not expecting final resolution until, you know, back half of next year. And even then, there still could be appeals or whatever. So to your point, we've got mitigation in flight. We've been rolling them out in phases, whether it's APR increases, paper statement fee, testing, promotional, fees. And this is, you know, rolling out in phases, I said. So some partners are still gonna roll out in the first part of next year. We're doing some coordination with the brand partners and making sure that it, you know, it makes sense. Some brand partners wanted to wait until the final rule is resolved.
So again, it's a phase in, and some of the results you'll start to see more so probably in the first, second quarter as they start to build and wedge in terms of impact.
I don't wanna get too ahead of ourselves, but, you know, there's obviously uncertainty if the rules can ever go in given the change.
Mm-hmm.
Administration and, as you said, the rulings from the court. You know, how long do you think you can keep higher APRs? Do you think these will stick? And what do you think it'll mean for what, you know, your margin trends over time?
Yeah. I think over time, you know, one thing that any of us have been in the business as long as I have, and I'm, you know, been in this since 1988, so it's been a while. And Ralph, I'm not gonna comment how long you've been in business here, but it's, you know, this you tend to com.
I have a longer sense of it.
These tend to get competed away in some regard. So, you know, higher APRs could be here a little longer if rates stay higher. But often, you know, it's a competitive marketplace. And what'll happen is some of this may get reinvested into the programs, into the customer value proposition, or through whatever process competition comes in, you know, there's a way. And again, there's risk-based pricing. So people always think about higher interest rates.
Yeah.
On the top end, but, you know, there's everything in between for the, you know, the better-scoring customers as well.
Could we spend a minute and, you know, just give an update on the state of the consumer, how the environment is influencing their spending patterns, and, you know, what you're seeing between different cohorts of your customer base?
Yeah. You know, it's a, you know, Perry calls it a decay economy, and I tend to agree with him. So, you know, we're seeing stress at the lower end of the economy. You know, people are, you know, moved. They're buying to non-discretionary items, what they need, what they need to survive, to live day to day. And we see that. But, you know, we see, you know, spend is, you know, it is not off the charts. It's moderately improving. Well, at the high end, you may see spend, you know.
Yep.
Very healthy. So for us, you know, our consumers are up and down the spectrum, and those at the lower end of the spectrum are moderately improving their spend.
Mm-hmm.
That's what we see. And you wanna talk about decay?
Yeah. So maybe to put a finer point on that, maybe just talk about how the holiday season is shaping up. What are you hearing and seeing versus brand partners, any verticals in particular that are doing well? And in addition, maybe just, you know, we've seen two months of credit performance.
Yeah.
Just any updates in terms of how the fourth quarter is progressing?
Yeah. Why don't I start, Perry?
Yeah.
I'll turn it over to you. So you know, I think this holiday season is really shortened for a couple of reasons. Everybody was focused on the election in the beginning, right?
Yeah.
You focus on the election. You tend to that. That's where your focus is gonna be. Then, you know, it's a shorter holiday season where Thanksgiving falls and it misses most of Christmas. But, you know, we saw, you know, moderate growth over, you know, over Black Friday, Cyber Monday. Nothing, you know, nothing to kinda spike the ball out, but moderate growth. We saw some growth there. And really, because December is gonna be consolidated, we'll see some, you know, spend will be okay in December as well. Areas where we're seeing spend, you know, is health and beauty. We're seeing spend there. Again, healthy spend there. We're seeing, you know, spend. People now, you know, taking some discretionary spend away from, like, T&E and restaurants and really focusing it on soft goods, clothing and, and jewelry and shoes and spend like that.
Yeah. Back on to where Ralph was going, I think you're gonna see our consumers continue to be value-oriented in terms of what they're looking for. And with inventories being less of a concern, I think you've heard from other retailers are pretty.
Yeah.
In a good position on inventories. You know, that means they're gonna go back to what we probably all saw five years ago, which, right, as you get closer and closer to the holidays, better deals are there. And I think consumers are trying to make their budgets go. So we're seeing a very, you know, thoughtful, consumer in terms of how they're trying to manage their budget. As it relates to credit, you know, I think we're encouraged by what we're seeing in those early-stage delinquency. There's still pressure on the back end that we've talked about for the.
Yep.
You know, through the past couple of years and still looking to see some of that improvement come through, and hopefully, that, that starts to manifest itself as we work through next year, but you know, as we've talked, you know, I think just the nature of how we got here with the environment.
Yep.
Borne from this compounding effect of inflation, you know, something that's up 20% and it only goes up 3% next year.
Yeah.
Okay. Well, it's still up a lot, right? And I think that's the reality of what we're, we're working through. And anything else to highlight for the quarter or, or things are progressing as expected?
Pretty much progressing as expected.
Gotcha. So, you know, you gave loan growth guidance for this year, down low-teens to low single digits. I know we'll get specific guidance in January. But maybe just talk directionally about loan growth in 2025 given the uncertainty. And what do you think will be the, you know, the key drivers of this? And how will the tightening of the underwriting you've done factor into this?
Yeah. I think when, when you think about, we've pretty much given some directional guidance of what's gonna happen.
Yep.
In the first half of next year with losses still being elevated, kind of where they've been, that's a drag on growth, right? 'Cause you have higher gross losses. That's two to three hundred basis points.
Yep.
Above a normal, you know, through-the-cycle rate that we're, we'd like to operate in. So that's still gonna remain a tailwind. That creates more of the same of what we've been experiencing, still operating in a pretty tight credit environment. While right now, I'd say we're tightening in some places, loosening a little bit in others, you know, tweaking around the edges. You're not in that unwind mode yet. I do expect as we start to get partway through next year, you may start to see more unwinding. I don't expect to see, you know, dramatic tightening, but it'll still be a gradual unwind as it really comes down to the health of the consumer coming through the applications upfront. And are they, do they have less leverage? Are they in a better credit position? So and then we'll start to reintroduce line increases.
We see better payment behaviors. So through the back end of next year, that could help with loan growth.
Mm-hmm.
We do have a great pipeline. You know, we've had some recent signings that will or de novo programs that will grow into next year, so I think as you know, we look for the back end of next year, I definitely start to see you know, the growth progressing as the economy improves.
Maybe let's just spend a minute on, on credit. I think you highlighted last quarter that, you know, you expect normal seasonal increases in the net loss rate, I think, from 4Q to 1Q. Second quarter is gonna be impacted by, you had two straight months of 40 basis points. So, you know, that'll elevate the quarterly loss rate by maybe around 30 basis points. But are you help us think about losses, you know, the trajectory over the, over the course of next year. And what are your early expectations for 2025?
Yeah. I think, you know, largely follow normal seasonal trends. And I'm glad you called that out because that was one of the things we felt like we had to say something about the first quarter because a lot of analyst models had losses coming down off the fourth quarter, and there is a seasonal increase. So expect a seasonal increase. Hopefully, we can do a little better than what normal seasonal increases are, but it is gonna go up from where we would end in the fourth quarter, and then second quarter, as you noted, will be impacted by the hurricane side.
And then, you know, from what we're seeing with early delinquency formation, if things continue to progress, the new vintages we're underwriting have really good credit scores, and if the consumer health continues to improve and some of those, I'll say, the weaker consumers who are the ones charging off, you know, you can see a path to that, you know, modest improvement as you work through the second half of next year with some aid from loan growth as well.
Yeah.
That it's also, you got that denominator effect that you're limiting right now.
Perry, when I think about this year, you know, I think loss expectations into next year were a little low, and you've highlighted, you know, movements towards more seasonal patterns. When I think about where losses are today, you know, they're call it 200 basis points plus above the 6% that you guys target. Now, you've said many times, you know, over the course of the cycle, there's gonna be some years we're gonna operate below it, and at Perry, like this, we're operating above it. Can you maybe just talk about, like, what gets you back to, you know, that 6-ish% loss rate over what time frame? And how do you think about what we need to see to.
Yeah.
To get you towards that?
Well, I don't think we get there by the end of next year, because this environment that got us to where we are now, it happened slowly over time from that, you know, that persistent compounding effect of this prolonged period of inflation. And so to get out of this period of time, right, we got a lot of consumers still dealing with that inflation in their households. It's gonna take time for one, a prolonged period of wage growth exceeding inflation. I think everything that we're seeing right now says, you know, inflation may be around a little higher than, you know, won't get down to that 2% target or below that next year.
So that says it'll take time for wages to outpace that to the point where consumers have rebuilt their balance sheets a little bit and have that breathing room in their own personal budgets. Our underwriting tighter, like we've been doing, those vintages will start to stack on each other from what we did this year and next year. That creates a better loss outlook. And I'd say also continuing our expansions, Ralph highlighted earlier, that shifting more co-brand, the credit risk mix of the portfolios themselves and the business that we're building. So it's just a matter of time and the macro environment continuing to, I'll say, be benign and slowly cure.
You referenced a couple of times the tightening of underwriting. You've been doing it for.
Yep.
Several years now. I guess, are you continuing to tighten or loosen at all? You know, what will you have to see to, you know, start opening up the buy box again? And just broadly, how do you think about the trade-off between, you know, receivables growth and tightening the underwriting box just given, you know, you obviously underwrite to.
Yep.
You know, to optimize. You're not, you know, you're not in.
Yep.
Looking to just, you know, grow or hit a certain loss level.
Yeah. We do underwrite to for profit. But what I'd say is we are not focused on a growth metric as a to determine how we would underwrite. That's just, you know.
Yep.
You wanna be disciplined on deploying capital and make sure we get the right returns. You know, what we need to see around to loosen underwriting, it's really gonna be on a more macro micro view within the portfolio. You wanna see certain cohorts, I'll say cells of, the populations where you're seeing good payment patterns. You're seeing, you know, things happen on their credit bureau. There's that demonstrates some deleveraging, that they're healthy payments. I mean, they hopefully, they have higher incomes relative to their, you know, debts or their debt-to-income ratios. All these things considered and a good economic outlook will give you confidence that you can start to then reintroduce line increases or when customers come in the door, give a higher line assignment back to what you used to or and/or approve more.
So it's really not gonna be an indicator that says, "Oh, it's go time." It's really gonna be those customers coming in in a healthier state and then demonstrating that strong payment behavior once they're on our books.
Maybe to just round out the discussion on credit before we head back to Ralph, I think you've talked about the year-end reserve rate being at or slightly below 2023's levels. I guess, what gives you the confidence that it should start to trend lower? And what would it take for us to start to see it even more lower? And what do you think about as a more normal reserve rate for the company over time?
Yeah. I think, similar to our perspective on how losses and delinquency should trend lower over time, I think the earliest indicator you can look at is delinquency. You know, now, again, we've been holding that reserve rate pretty steady for a couple of years now. It's, you know, you gotta take out the seasonality and look through the seasonality and delinquency. But as you start to see that trend line really come down, you because that's the first input, right? It's your loan portfolio at a point in time, runs through the model. It has structural delinquency in it and what the risk scores are. As that improves, the reserve rates have naturally come down with it over time. So it's not gonna have this major step-down function where you're gonna worry about us yo-yoing it back and forth.
It's going to come down naturally as the portfolio health improves and we have more confidence in the macroeconomic outlook. And that's a key input because right now, I'm not sure any of us here would feel like we've got a high degree of confidence in what next year looks like, right? There could be inflation remains higher longer. That could be a little challenging for our consumer. But if that improves, great. I do have more confidence in the labor market remaining strong and stable. So that's a good indicator. But for our consumers, we've got to see that, you know, the inflation coming down. And I think you're seeing, you know, outlooks that now have interest rates exiting 2025.
Mm-hmm.
At a higher level than maybe what some had thought. We've been saying all along that we thought interest rates were gonna be higher for longer. So all these things considered will say when this can come down. You know, where it exits, you know, when you get back to that through-the-cycle number, probably not as low as day one.
Yep.
All else being equal because that really didn't contemplate a.
Yep.
Downside scenarios in there. That said, but if we shift the mix of the portfolio materially below 6%, it could get back there.
So maybe shifting gears a little bit, Ralph, you know, you talked about bringing on SAS, which was a.
Mm-hmm.
You know, $400 million nice-sized portfolio. Maybe just talk about what the opportunity set looks like for new business wins and organic growth. You know, which one is looking more promising at this point?
You know, they all present promise. So if you think about just organic growth, right, deeper penetration in the partners that we have with the products that we have, that's an opportunity for organic growth. Then as we introduce new products and new technology innovation to really drive, you know, ease of use and acquisition, again, and you know, organic growth. And then the inorganic growth of new partners and even de novo partners.
Yep.
Where you can grow them. Ulta is a clear example of a de novo partner. They were, you know, we started at zero and they're one of our biggest partners.
Yep.
Today and we grew them over time. All of it presents a really good opportunity for us. I think what I'm very pleased about is, you know, years ago, we would have to push our way into a pursuit. Now we're getting pulled into the pursuits and people want us there. What I love about this business is we're flexible and we're, you know, we're pretty nimble where we can compete with the big guys like Bank of America and Capital One and Barclays and we've taken portfolios away from them.
Yep.
But also those $100 million portfolios or those de novo portfolios, five or six of them becomes a string of pearls.
Yep.
Right? You get them at a good price, ease of implementation, and you grow them and you've got good partners to work with. So, you know, all of that gives me, you know, makes me optimistic as we move forward.
I was at a dinner last night and somebody referred to something as a string of pearls. And I told him it wasn't his line. He was stealing it from you.
Yep.
So maybe just talk a little bit about renewals. You know, you'd given us lots of stats regarding how much is.
Yeah.
of the portfolio is renewed through 2026. Maybe just remind us how much is renewed, and given what's happening with both credit and the regulatory environment, maybe just talk a little bit about some of the emerging trends with renewals in terms of sharing of economics.
Sure. You know, it's, you know, as exciting as, you know, winning new businesses, renewals to me are as equally as exciting. So if you look at our book, 85% of our loans are secure through 2026. It's a big part of the big part of the book. If you look at our 10 biggest programs, nine of them are secured to 2028, the end of 2028. So you're talking like you look at almost the end of the decade.
Yep.
Really good, you know, really good, really good results from giving good service, new products, new technology, really good. You know, the trends we're seeing, you know, as we look at things and pursue, it's like, it's moving more to revenue share as opposed to basis points. I think that's, you know, that's what we're seeing. You know, when we go after something, we look at it, you know, will it have an $8 late fee? Will it not have an $8 late fee? You know, make sure that the returns are, you know, accretive to our portfolio as we move forward. You know, you look at the returns, you look at the loss rate, you look at the name of the partner, the market partner.
Mm-hmm.
You look at, you know, do they have a following? And all those go into it. But, you know, I think we, you know, we have a really good renewal rate and a really good, and you do that, you don't go out for RFP, you don't, you know, you don't pay in, you know, you don't get panicky, you don't pay those long prices. And it's a, you know, it's a smooth continuation of business.
I'm going to hit on three more topics here. Maybe just first, you know, you, you guys give guidance for expenses down, you know, mid-single digits for the full year. Maybe just talk about how you, how you're thinking about expenses going forward. It's positive operating leverage, the main goal, and how do you balance making the necessary investments in this type of revenue environment and still drive operating leverage?
Yeah. Our goal is positive operating leverage. I mean, that's how we start out each budget cycle, making sure that we can deliver on that. And one of the keys to deliver on that is obviously, you know, some nice revenue growth would be helpful. But in environments like this, it may not always work out that way where if you're shrinking your assets a little bit 'cause you're operating in a period of elevated inflation. But, you know, when you or elevated losses, when you work through this, it's having discipline, right? Making the right investments along the way and focusing in on investments that will produce fast return on that investment. So a lot of investments you make can create efficiencies. And if you focus on those first, that creates net yield savings that then allows you to fuel the next investment.
That's what we've talked about is, so we, you know, we initiated a program called Operational Excellence. It's like that flywheel. It starts to kick off tens of millions of dollars of benefits that you can then reinvest into the more tech. But the whole goal is to self-fund the investments that we need without having to have these step-up functions.
Yep.
In our expenses. So we're very mindful and thoughtful of, like I said, starting with positive operating leverage, making the right investments that deliver the right returns, the right values for our customer service, for our brand partners and what they're looking for, and give better experience to all.
You know, you spoke in the slides about the progress you've made both on growing capital and paying down debt, you know, being below your target leverage level. You know, you talked about, you wanted to take care of some of the parent debt. You recently announced that $25 million, I guess, drew up to the buyback. What's next for you with capital and, you know, when do we get back to returning capital on a more sustained basis?
Hopefully sooner rather than later. But, you know, we stuck to our capital priorities, right? We still have to take care of some of the debt. We still have 65 basis points of a CECL phase-in that will happen in the first quarter. We need to support profitable growth. We still need to get to those targets that we set out with 16% total company, you know, the 14% tangible common equity. You know, so that's what we're striving for. And when we clear those, we're certainly gonna have a lot more flexibility around return of capital. If there aren't, you know, terrific growth opportunities in front of us, we'll do the right thing for our shareholders.
So, Ralph, when you were here last year, stock was trading at a meaningful discount to tangible book value. And I think you said we should be trading at a multiple of tangible book value. If I'm, I apologize if I'm misquoting you. Well, the stock has now made its way. It's had a great run, made its way well above tangible book value. And it feels like we're entering into an environment of, you know, a little bit more clarity on the macro and a little bit more clarity on the regulatory environment. So given how well the stock has done, you know, what are you telling investors to get them excited about owning the stock right now?
You know, my wife and kids are asking the same questions.
Access to your credit card.
Exactly. You know, we're gonna judge us by what we've done, what we said we were gonna do, and what we've done, right? We said we were gonna build our balance sheet. We built our balance sheet. We said we were gonna reduce our parent debt. We reduced our parent debt. We built our capital. Those are things we said we were gonna do. We did them. We said we were gonna be more transparent with our investors. We, when we talk about loss rates, it's from a place where sometimes the news isn't great, but we say, "Here's where we are. Here's where we're going." And we managed that appropriately. We've been able to bring on premier partners over the last five years. You know, I mean the NFL, AAA, all these partners are premier partners. We're growing those partners.
We're able to develop other partners. We've got a strong team in place. You know, I would tell investors, you know, I think we're on a good trajectory. Buy now, buy often.
Mm-hmm.
I think we're still a value stock, quite frankly. You know, some of the cloudiness around regulation now is lifting a little bit. That, you know, credits on a not great trajectory. It's getting a bit better. I think all those things are positive for the industry and positive for us.
Awesome. Well, we're out of time, but please join me in thanking Brad.
Thank you.