Earnings Call: Q1 2021

Apr 16, 2021

Good morning, everyone, and welcome to Citizens Financial Group First Quarter 2021 Earnings Conference Call. My name is Alan, and I'll be your operator today. Currently, all participants are in a listen only mode. Following the presentation, we will conduct a brief question and answer session. As a reminder, this event is being recorded. Now, I'll turn the call over to Kristin Silberberg, Executive Vice President, Investor Relations. Kristen, you may begin. Thank you, Alan. Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining us. First, this morning, our Chairman and CEO, Bruce Van Son And CFO, John Woods, will provide an overview of Q1 results, referencing our presentation, which you can find on our Investor Relations website. After the presentation, we'll be happy to take questions. Brendan Coughlin, Head of Consumer Banking is also here to provide additional color. John McCree, Head of Commercial Banking, who usually joins us, has a personal conflict today. Our comments today will include forward looking statements, which are subject to risks and uncertainties that may cause our results to differ materially from expectations. These are outlined for your review on Page 2 of the presentation. We also reference non GAAP financial measures. So it's important to review our GAAP results on Page 3 of the presentation and the reconciliation in the appendix. With that, I will hand over to Bruce. Thanks, Kristen. Good morning, everyone. Thanks for joining our call today. We're pleased to get off to a good start 2021 as our business model continues to demonstrate strength, diversification and resilience notwithstanding continuing impacts from the pandemic. We continue to focus on taking good care of customers, highlighted by $1,800,000,000 of PPP loans in the latest round of the program. We've kept our colleagues safe and productive and we continue to drive benefits to our communities through various grants and strong levels of volunteerism. Our strategic initiatives remain on track and will lead to increasing differentiation and growth in franchise value versus peers over time. Our financial headlines are terrific, though they're flattered by a large reserve release given the improved economic outlook. We delivered underlying Q1 EPS of $1.41 and ROTCE of 17.6 While our CET1 ratio grew to 10.1% and our liquidity remains elevated with an 81 The first half of the year can be thought of as a transition period for us In terms of PPNR, as the record levels of mortgage revenues normalize, while we are still seeing strong levels of originations, both refi and purchase, Elevated margins have been returning to historical levels as industry capacity has expanded and competition has intensified. We currently expect mortgage revenues broadly to bottom in Q2 and then stabilize in the second half. During the Q1, we saw strength in capital markets and wealth fees, which partially offset the drop in mortgage fees. This should continue into Q2 and we should start to see loan growth pick up as well, which provides a further offset. The outlook for the second half PPNR is strengthening as we expect loan growth plus a stabilized NIM given the steeper curve to help deliver top line growth. This combined with strong pull through of our top benefits and overall expense discipline should result in healthy levels of positive operating leverage The outlook for credit also continues to brighten. With a negative provision of $140,000,000 in the first quarter, Our ACL ratio ex PPP loans is now 2.03%. This compares with our day 1 ACL upon CECL adoption of 1.47%. So there's likely still more to go on reserve releasing assuming the economic outlook continues to firm and clarify. All of our credit trends continue to be favorable, both on the consumer and commercial side. We've moved our charge off guidance for full year So to sum up, we feel we're off to a great start. The economic outlook continues to improve and we are executing well on the initiatives that will position us over time as a top performing bank. With that, I'll turn it over to John. Thanks, Bruce, and good morning, everyone. Let me start with the headlines for the quarter. We reported underlying net income of $626,000,000 and EPS of 1.41 Our underlying ROCE for the quarter was 17.6%, which includes the impact of a sizable reserve release. Revenue of $1,700,000,000 was broadly stable year over year, strong fee income offsetting the impact of the low rate environment on NII. Highlights include continued strength in capital markets, record results in wealth and well controlled expenses. We recorded a negative provision for credit losses of $140,000,000 which reflects strong credit performance with lower charge offs and improving loan portfolio profile And an improving macroeconomic outlook with our ACL ratio now at 2.03% excluding PPP loans. And finally, we are in a very strong capital position with CET1 at 10.1% after returning $2,000,000 to shareholders in dividends and share repurchases during the quarter. We also continued to grow our tangible book value per share, which was $32.79@quarterend, up 3% compared with a year ago. Next, I'll refer to a few of the slides and give you some key takeaways for the Q1. I'll then outline our outlook for the Q2 and provide some comments on 2021. Net interest income on Slide 6 was down 1% linked quarter given lower day count. Loan balances were broadly stable Net interest margin was up slightly. The net interest margin improvement reflects a steepening yield curve and continued discipline on deposit pricing. Interest bearing deposit costs are down 7 basis points to 20 basis points, which more than offset the impact of lower asset yields. We expect that elevated deposit levels from recent stimulus will continue to impact margin in the near term. We will continue to be proactive in pricing down deposits Pursuing attractive loan growth opportunities in areas like point of sale finance and education as well as in attractive commercial segments. The steepening of the curve provided us with the opportunity to begin adding to our hedge positions to moderate our asset sensitivity. We added $7,000,000,000 of 5 year received fixed cash flow swaps and terminated some PAPIC swaps during the course of the quarter. Those actions combined with expected balance sheet changes reduced our asset sensitivity to about 8.5% from 10.8% at the end of the year. Referring to Slide 7, we delivered solid fee results again this quarter, reflecting our ongoing efforts to invest in and diversify our revenue As expected, mortgage fees were down approximately 15% this quarter despite strong volumes as heightened and increased industry capacity pressured gain on sale margins. Nonetheless, mortgage fees were still strong compared to a year ago, And we expect a continued strong level of originations across all channels over 2021 as the market shifts to being more balanced between refi and purchase activities. 2021 is expected to be the strongest home purchase market in history, only restrained by housing inventory. Wealth fees were record, up 12% linked quarter, reflecting an increase in AUM from net inflows and strong market levels with record sales. Capital Markets fees remain robust, though they were down 8% from a record level in the 4th quarter with lower M and A advisory Partly offset by increased underwriting revenue. Foreign exchange and interest rate products revenue decreased $7,000,000 linked quarter Given reduced client hedging as a result of less lending activity and lower volatility. Expenses on Slide 8 were well controlled, up 3% linked quarter driven by seasonality in salaries and employee benefits. We are continuing to focus on both the transformational and business as usual aspects of our TOP 6 program and we are on track to deliver total pre tax run rate benefit of $400,000,000 to $425,000,000 by the end of 2021. Average loans on Slide 9 were broadly stable linked quarter As commercial payoffs and slightly lower loan line utilization of about 32% compared with a historical average of roughly 37%, was partially offset by growth in our education, mortgage and point of sale finance portfolios. Looking at year over year trends, average loans were up approximately 1% due to PPP, education and mortgage. We executed the PPP lending program very smoothly with $1,800,000,000 of loans secured as part of Round 2, taking the total PPP loans $5,100,000,000 at period end, we expect that about 85% of the round 1 loans will be forgiven by the end of the year and for round 2, which are 5 year loans, About 20% could be forgiven by the end of 2021 and about 70% forgiven after 2 years. Overall, the PPP program will help stabilize NII in the first half of the year, while the benefit will taper off a little in the second half. On Slide 10, deposit flows benefited from the recent consumer oriented stimulus, especially in low cost categories and our liquidity ratios remain strong. Average deposits were up 1% linked quarter and 16% year over year as consumers and small businesses benefited from government stimulus Commercial clients built liquidity. We are very pleased with our progress on deposit repricing with total deposit costs down 5 basis points to 14 basis points and interest bearing deposit costs down 7 basis points to 20 basis points during the quarter. We continue to drive a shift towards lower cost categories with DDA now about 30% of average deposits compared with only 23% a year ago. The strength of our deposit franchise is becoming very clear given all the investments we've made, including the launch of our digital bank, enhanced data analytics And introducing new cash management tools for our commercial clients. At the end of the last low rate cycle in 2015, our interest bearing deposit costs bottomed at about 34 basis points. This cycle, we are already at 20 basis points and we expect these costs to decrease to the low teens by the end of the year as we execute our deposit playbook. Moving on to credit on Slides 1112. We saw strong credit results this quarter. Net charge offs were down 9 basis points 52 basis points linked quarter. This is at the lower end of our guidance for the Q1 and driven by a reduction in commercial. 1st quarter commercial net charge offs included charge offs in areas of market concern, including pre retail, Casual dining and one large charge off related to a financial sponsor. Non accrual loans decreased $11,000,000 linked quarter by $65,000,000 linked quarter driven by mortgage loans coming off forbearance. However, given the strength of the housing market With inventories at historical lows and strong LTVs in our book, we expect little to no loss content in these mortgages. In addition, our commercial criticized loans continue to trend down this quarter, decreasing by $495,000,000 or 11%. Given the improvement in the macroeconomic outlook and performance of the portfolio, our reserves decreased but remain robust Ending the quarter at 2.03 percent excluding PTP loans compared with 2.24% at the end of the 4th quarter. This is still significantly higher than our 1.47 percent day 1 CECL implementation coverage. We anticipate There likely will be further reserve releases assuming the macroeconomic outlook continues to strengthen and solidify. We have some detailed credit slides in the appendix for your reference, 1 on Slide 22 covering commercial credit. Since the start of the COVID-nineteen crisis, we have been highlighting the commercial areas most impacted by the lockdown. As we continue to see improvements in the operating environment, These areas of concern have now decreased to 2.3 percent of the total CFG loan portfolio, down from 4.6% in 4Q 'twenty and approximately 11% in 1Q 'twenty. The remaining areas of concern include Cree retail and hospitality, casual dining and Arts, Entertainment and Recreation. And accordingly, we are maintaining prudent reserve allocations with a reserve coverage of about 10% for these We maintained excellent balance sheet strength as shown on Slide 13, increasing our CET1 ratio from 10% in 4Q to 10.1% at the end of the Q1, which is slightly above our target operating range after returning $262,000,000 in capital to shareholders in the quarter. Before I move on to our 2Q outlook, let me highlight some exciting things that are happening across the company on Slide 14. On the left side of the page, we were very pleased to be able to provide about $1,800,000,000 in new PPP loans through the latest SBA program, providing critical funding to over 30,000 of our small business customers. On the consumer side, we recently announced the Expansion of our national point of sale offering for merchants through our Citizens Pay offering. We are continuing to add new merchants to our point of sale platform such as BJ's Wholesale Club with more in the pipeline and the portfolio was up 8% year over year. In addition, we continue to make great strides in our digital transformation with our digital sales up 48% year over year. Clearly, our customers are demanding a different distribution model from us, one that allows for more efficient digital transactions and an advice oriented focus In our branches, we launched our new mobile app on iOS in January, which is receiving great reviews with an average of 4.6 stars in the App Store. In commercial, we have built out a robust corporate finance advisory model, which is supporting our geographic expansion efforts. Our Capital Markets business delivered its 2nd best quarter ever in the Q1, demonstrating the benefits of the investments we've made over the last few years. On the right side of the page, you can see a high level view of our strategic priorities, all of which remain on track. And now for some high level commentary on the outlook for the Q2 on Slide 15. We expect NII to be up 2% to 2.5% With NIM up modestly, more broadly stable excluding elevated cash. We expect loan growth of 1.5% to 2% in the 2nd quarter, followed by an acceleration in the back of the year. Earning assets are expected to be broadly stable in the 2nd quarter. Fee income is expected to be down high single digits, reflecting lower mortgage banking fees as gain on sale margins declined further towards more normal levels, partially offset by strength across many of the remaining fee categories. Non interest expense is expected to be down slightly. We expect net charge offs will be in the range of 30 to 40 basis points of average loans with a meaningful reserve release through provision. Before I wrap up, I'd like to provide some comments on this transition period towards economic recovery and our 2021 full year outlook. First, we remain confident in our 2021 PPNR outlook with NII higher and fees slightly lower than our original guidance. Let me give you some further color on the puts and takes. We're expecting loan growth to really pick up in 2H 'twenty one, driven by student, point of sale, Auto and mortgage as well as commercial utilization starting to rise from historical lows as the economy finds stable footing and companies begin to invest for growth. Coupled with a steeper yield curve, this improves our NII outlook. Our outlook for fees is slightly lower driven by mortgage as we expect additional pressure on gain on sale margins as they begin to migrate lower. As the curve steepens, We should see a transition to greater contributions from purchase originations and servicing. We have included some additional detail in the mortgage landscape in the appendix on Slide 20. We expect other key categories, namely Capital and Global Markets and Wealth to continue to be strong as we leverage our investments The economy rebalance. Other categories like card fees and service charges and fees should also benefit as consumer confidence and spending picks up. Given these dynamics, we expect PP and R to bottom in the 2nd quarter and then rebound to levels higher than the Q1 for the remainder of the year given strength in NII and fees as well as well controlled expenses. We also expect to be close to neutral operating leverage in 2Q compared to 1Q, followed by meaningful positive operating leverage in the second half. We are also expecting a substantially better credit outlook for the full year. Given the strong performance of the loan portfolio and improvements in the macroeconomic forecast, we are reducing our full year charge off guidance range to 35 45 basis points. And with this improvement, we could also see our ACL ratio decline meaningfully from the current 2.3% 2.03 percent ex PPP. To wrap up, this was a strong start to 2021 for Citizens across our strategic initiatives. With that, I'll hand it back over to Bruce. All right. Thanks, John. Operator, let's open it up to Q and A. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin the Q and A portion of the conference call. Our first question will come from the line of Matt O'Connor with Deutsche Bank. Go ahead. Good morning. Your outlook for loan growth is a bit better than what we've heard so far from other folks. And I was just wondering if you could elaborate on The drivers both in the near term and then how robust you think loan growth can be kind of when things fully reopen, I'll call it later this year and into next year. Yes, I'll start off with that, Matt. Others may weigh in here. But in the near term, I think that The strength that we're seeing is really attributable to our diversified consumer lending and retail businesses. When you see what we've been able to do In the mortgage portfolio, auto and education, I think those are areas that have been areas of strength in the past and will continue to be in the second quarter. I also believe that when we get into the Q2, you're going to start to see, although across the industry, we've seen utilization levels come down a bit in the Q1. I think we believe that that will start to moderate and stabilize and possibly start to head back up off of historic lows, Historic low level, so you can see commercial contributing as well in the second quarter. And as you that'll create The staging ground, if you will, for what we see in the second half, where the continuing expectations for reopening, economic On the commercial side, inventory is building, CapEx expenditure starting Recover and increase. So those are the forces that we see in terms of loan growth throughout the year. Yes. On the consumer side, thanks, John. I'd offer a couple of thoughts. 1, across all the asset categories, Excuse me, unwound credit tightening that we did through COVID. And so we haven't changed our risk But the temporary tightening that we did, those are now broadly unwound. So we should see originations tick up across all categories. We've also turned on Marketing that we had artificially suppressed last year as well, asset by asset, I think I had mentioned last quarter, we had sort of put auto in a flat Yes, trend intentionally. The market always allowed for us to grow, but we were optimizing our balance sheet with all the excess deposits We have now in the short duration, we're finding incredibly high returns in the auto business. So you should expect that to continue to moderately Grow, assuming that the environment allows for outsized returns, which we're not seeing a slowdown. On the student side, We have a record quarter in Earl in our Sumo and refinance product at over $900,000,000 in originations. That could moderate a tiny bit, but still at record levels giving high rates. And as the federal portfolio of student loans come off Therefore, Barrens in September that will provide another opportunity for growth. And then seasonally our in school business, we're expecting a very big year as a lot of students took the year off Given COVID, a big freshman class coming in and just seasonal growth in the summer and the fall. And lastly, Point of sale is an area that we've spent a lot of time and investment in. We've got great traction. We're up to about 15 partners. So we're In the build phase there, whereas these partners ramp up, you're naturally getting sort of outsized growth, sort of a lot of small numbers as The portfolio gets to scale. So I've got a lot of confidence in the outlook in consumer growth and underpinning that is obviously improvement in consumer confidence. I would just add, it's Bruce, Matt. Just one last proof point on the commercial side, in addition to line utilization, which is seeing activity start So our pipelines are much stronger at this point than they were early in the Q1. So That's a good sign of both economic activity, backlogs in M and A still pretty high. So We see line utilization kicking in plus just the fresh deals and we continue to add bankers and grow our market share. And is most of the demand building commercial related to deals as you just referenced? Or is there also kind of Some early signs of increased, call it, organic investment among our commercial borrowers? I think there's some of both, Matt, Quite honestly. So right now, you can see the economic stats are fantastic and so people are positioning to try to capture That demand and so that means increasing supply, which requires some capital investment and then also labor, bringing people back to work, which frankly, When we talk to many of our corporate customers, it's been a gating factor. It's hard to actually fill out their needs. And we're trying to be helpful on that with some We will move next to the line of Erika Najarian with Bank of America. Go ahead please. Hi, good morning. A follow-up to Matt's question because I want to make sure the market really understands this. A lot of your larger peers that where their consumer exposure is more credit card related, really talk to us over the past couple of days about How deleveraging was going to negatively impact demand? And perhaps maybe give us a little bit more detail about why your Consumer products are not necessarily going to be impacted the same as credit card. Yes. Erica, thanks. It's Brendan. I'd just say our credit Our book is significantly smaller than our peers on an average basis to our overall loan book. And so we are seeing a little bit of those dynamics in our credit card portfolio. We're not calling for growth in credit card, but that delevering of our card book with all the extra stimulus has a much more muted impact For us on our overall consumer lending portfolio than others just given the relative undersized nature of our card book. So, we found opportunities to grow in more Niche places like point of sale, which is the demand is generated by purchase activity. And as the economy rebounds, consumer confidence comes back, Folks are out there buying bigger ticket items again and the point of sale business is there to help and it's very naturally lined up against the recovery Consumer spending, how we think about modern financing for consumers. And while rates are going up, they are still very, very low. If I look at student loan refinancing, as I mentioned before, something that's still going to be very, very strong. There's a lot of customers that are in the money. That's a product that our peers generally Speaking don't have. And so that's generating outsized growth for us. And similarly in student, the in school business, as I mentioned before, seasonally, Just naturally that we're going to have some growth just by being in that business in the back half of the year, which most of our peers don't have. And auto, again, not to be too redundant, we had intentionally sidelined on us. We're back in growth mode there at a moderate level. So when you add all that up, I think we've got a lot of confidence that We're going to buck the trends that you're hearing from others. And we're proving that the numbers show in the last handful of quarters that we're already delivering it even through the COVID period. I would just add to that. Diversification is important. And so we have probably more portfolios and some well targeted portfolios and niches that It should continue to still grow. So that's I think why we'll kind of buck the tide a little bit overall. And I would just add also the outlook For the so called buy now pay later or installment financing kind of tailoring products to people at point of sale is very, very positive. I think the Industry forecast for that is 20% growth over the next 5 years and on card it's much, much lower. First you have to get the rebound, but then I think that You're low single digit in terms of the growth outlook there. So I think we've made a bet that this is going to be a burgeoning attractive area. I think we're well positioned Did catch some wind here. Okay. And my second question is on the margin outlook for the Q2 and perhaps a little Beyond, thank you for giving us an update on how you're expecting PPP to unfold for the rest of the year. I'm wondering in the NIM up modestly guide, How much forgiveness is assumed for the Q2? And also, maybe give an outlook on How you're thinking about redeploying the excess cash for the rest of the year? Yes, I'll go ahead and take that, Erika. I mean, I think just To focus on the Q2, I think that the rate environment is favorable to us and others. But I think We're seeing nice tailwinds from the rate along the long end rise. I'd also reference the fact that we added to our Edge portfolio in the first Quarter and that's contributing and we'll get a full quarter effect of that in the second quarter and just our overall mix and On both the asset and deposit side, so greater DDA in the Q1 and that's flowing into the Q2. And don't forget some of the comments I made earlier about our deposit costs. That's a lever that continues to contribute And those are some of the important, I think, drivers into 2Q with more room to run there, The 20 basis points coming down to sort of into the teens, into the second quarter and into the low teens as So those are some of the forces. PPP is less of a contributor. It's pretty as we mentioned, it stabilizes Overall NII, but in terms of NIM, there's no real meaningful difference between Forgiveness last quarter versus this quarter or next quarter. So it's really not a driver over the last quarter or next. Got it. Just to clarify, so the forces that are driving NIM higher in the second quarter are sort of core business trends? They are rates, rates, balance sheet, balance sheet mix, deposit pricing and loan growth. Those are the things that We're really driving a sneak peek. Yes. And just a further word on PPP, I mean John called it right, but that's been pretty stable Through the back half of last year, through the first half of this year, you look at the yields on those loans with forgiveness baked in, it's not a big winner for the bank. So what we had anticipated was that we'd start to see some fall off, But given the new program that was added, the glide path down in the second half of the year is much less severe. I don't think the PPP this year will be a huge factor compared to last year on any sequential quarter that we would have to call out. We will go next to the line of John Pancari with Evercore ISI. Your line is open. Good morning. Hi. Regarding your commentary on the operating leverage expectation for Improvement and for I think you referenced it as healthy level of operating leverage. Any way you could help us Think about the magnitude in terms of sizing that up, what type of level of operating leverage you think is achievable in the back half and then what would that Possibly mean for 2022 as you look out? Yes. So historically, if you look at What we were able to deliver since the IPO, we've probably been in a 300 basis points of operating leverage type mode and whether that was 6% or 7% revenue growth and then 3% or 4% expense Growth, it's kind of scaled with what the revenue environment is. We tend to compress the expenses to try to maintain something like that. And so Clearly, that would be our objective over time. And as John indicated, we're kind of working through a transitory The phase where the mortgage revenue has to reset. It was a huge boon for last year. We did 400 basis points of operating leverage for all of last year, which was fueled by mortgage. So in the first half of the year, as that normalizes, that makes it hard to deliver the positive operating leverage, although We did state in our guidance that we should come pretty close to neutral in the second quarter notwithstanding That kind of last leg to drop on mortgage revenues before it stabilizes. Once we can get back to Kind of having that mortgage bottom out and we're seeing nice growth in our fees, we're seeing our balance sheet grow, we're seeing good performance on NIM, Then we should get back to having a nice top line and you can count on us to continue to constrain the expense growth. We've done, I think, a really good job with the top program of repositioning Citizens to Much more equipped for the future in terms of our technology. So we have a next gen technology element to that project. We have huge Going digital, going to a digital first business model going to that. So it does require investment, but our mindset all along has been to self fund to try to Find the inefficiencies in how we're running the place, ring those out and then in turn go reinvest those. And I think we've Demonstrated over time that we're quite good at that. So we're managing the expense base tightly, but we're certainly Keeping up with the investments that we need to position us for future growth. Helpful. And then separately on the consumer side, on the merchant partner side, kind of a 2 parter. First, just want to see if you can give a little bit of color around the risk adjusted returns you're able to get in that business in terms of maybe the loan yields that you're seeing on your partnership, Partnerships as well as the loss assumptions. And then separately, I know you mentioned by now, Klayed, Ebers. I'm interested If you believe you need more scale there to take advantage of the opportunity or if you need more capabilities on the digital front and therefore Would you be open to an acquisition to give you greater scale? Or do you think the momentum you have already in the area is sufficient? Thanks. Yes. Thanks for that. It's Brendan. I'd say the risk adjusted returns on the point of sale business, the way you should think about it is equivalent to a credit card profile. The geography is a little different. The yields are a little bit lower and the losses are meaningfully lower, but the returns are equivalent to what you'd on a prime card portfolio, which is why we sort of disclosed them all in the same bucket of other retail, so which is great because when you think about that, if you're getting equivalent credit card returns, but lower losses that are going to perform even better through the cycle, That's a very, very attractive place to play. And as I've shared in the past, when you look at the credit performance of point of sale through COVID, Forbearance was basically non existent and delinquencies were down from pre COVID levels. So that portfolio was operating As if there was no recession or lockdown going on around us. And so we're incredibly excited about that dynamic and we don't think it was artificially Created. The customer experience is so slick and integrated into consumers top of all the payment that really we're kind of getting that top payment position in that product. So Very, very excited about that. Relative to acquisition, look, we're really bullish on our capabilities. We think it's very distinctive from what others offer in the space, the Old school traditional buy now, pay later players and even relative to some of the Fintechs where we're we've got our unique niche that we've also have a balance sheet. We don't have to upload these loans. It allows a lot more creativity and innovation on how we structure the product. As an example, like the Apple product where it's a revolving purchase where the customer That's new phone every year. That's hard to do if you're reliant on capital markets to fund your business model. So we're excited about the business model. If there was an acquisition that could help us Accelerate at the right price, of course, we would look at it, but I don't think we need one to get scale. Great. Thank you. Appreciate you taking the questions. We'll go next to Peter Winter with Wedbush Securities. Go ahead. Good morning. I wanted to ask about the average securities yield. I noticed it held steady quarter to quarter. And I'm just wondering what the new reinvestment rate is on the securities. And secondly, if you're extending duration on that portfolio. Yes. I mean, I'll take the last question first. I mean, I think that the as you know, most of our portfolio is in a more security agencies And so really that's a rate driven outcome and pretty typical as you would see as rates rise, Prepayment is slow and so those mortgage backs will extend in duration. And so that's really what's going on there. We didn't actually through our purchase activity Endeavor to extend the duration, that was just an impact of the macro on the securities that we have. I mean, I think the way that we look At the securities book, it's basically a few weeks ago, I might have said that our reinvestment yields Could have been in the neighborhood of $175,000,000 to $180,000,000 and might have been close to where the runoff yields would be. But over the last couple of weeks, as you've seen the rally in rates, We're sort of in the, I'll call it, 160 range. And so it'll be a negative front book, back book, Probably in the early part of Q2, but as you get into the end of Q3 based upon what we see, you can start to see securities portfolio being the first Sort of term book that starts to get to neutral on front book, back book and begins to become a positive contributor into the second half. And some and I'd say more broadly, Those are the kind that's the kind of dynamic you'll see with other loan categories as 1 by 1 you'll see Improvements on that front. The other thing, again, back to this is a broader NII NIM story. But if we believe where rates are headed and the forces all indicate that we'll get to higher long term rates as you At the end of the year, we'll continue to layer in our swaps and our swap hedging program as well, which will also Contribute to NII and Can have a faster impact when you start to see the curve, Stephen. Exactly. Play it through swaps. So front book, back book converts from a headwind to a sort of a tailwind as you get to the end to end into the second half. Then you can see our playbook on rate management all contributing to NII and NIM. Got it. Thank you. And then Just on the allowance for credit losses, I'm just wondering with the improvement in credit, how quickly do you think you can get back to that CECL day 1 level. And does that level change just because the composition of the portfolio changing with More of the growth or more growth from consumer? Yes, I'll go ahead and take that. I mean, you've seen us Come down relatively meaningfully this quarter. The way CECL works, if you had perfect knowledge about where The macro is headed. All of that good news and all of that expected outcome would all be built into our results this quarter. But you also have to take into consideration the uncertainty around those expectations. And the uncertainty as we're Turning towards much more positive macro, that uncertainty in the range of potential outcomes is still very, very wide. And as a result, we have a number of overlays That are judgmental in nature that sort of work together with our model outputs to give you what you give you what our results are. So Net net, the balance would be that we have big releases happening now. If in fact, The uncertainty around the base case begins to narrow. You could see our coverage getting closer to day 1 as you get into the second half and towards the end of the year. Great. Thanks. We'll go next to the line of Ken Zerbe with Morgan Stanley. Hi, great. Thanks. Good morning. Good morning. I guess the first question, just in terms of the swaps that you put on, can you just talk about the duration I understand we're serving in a low rate environment, but at some point rates will rise. I'm just kind of curious how the timing of those swaps Play out with your expectations for Fed fund hikes at some point? Yes. I mean, the duration is 5 years on the swaps that put on, the $7,000,000,000 And that's relatively typical. I mean, you sort of look at this on a dollar cost averaging basis. When you see the 5 year is really where a lot of this hedging happens. When you saw the 5 year go from 40 basis points to 90 basis Points in a very short period of time. That's a signal to trigger the first sort of tranche of hedging That you will do over time and really we're not what you're doing is you are reducing your downside When you start to layer hedges in. And so our first tranche was triggered. It's contributing in a positive way. It Takes away and reduces the risk to lower rates over time. But we basically are you pause after that first Sort of category of hedging and you wait for the next sort of range of rates before you get into the next tranche. And so $7,000,000,000 is a fraction of what our overall hedging will be as you Get to the end of the cycle. And so rather than waiting to pick the perfect spot, maybe a year from now and do all of our hedging all at once, You tend to do it over time. Just leg into it. It's akin to dollar cost averaging. Absolutely. For you guys who are investing in your portfolios. And the last so the last tranche that you would do, if and when the 5 year hits its peak And then if you have a big rally in rates, those that will widen out. The first tranche that you do as you get Towards the end of the 5 years, if in fact rates continue to rise and rise and rise, then you have those turn negative, but those are more than offset By all of the positives of the hedging that you do as rates continue to rise. That makes perfect sense. And then just my second question, in terms of capital, obviously, very strong CET1 at 10.1%. Can you just talk about your Plans or expectations, like how does that eventually get absorbed? I mean, now you can't buy back stock, but it sounds like you're also going to have stronger balance sheet growth. Yes. I mean, I think you've had I think we've said this before, our program here and our number one capital objectives To support the dividend and to support organic growth and putting capital to work in support of our customers and clients. So that's really our first Objective. And if we can do that in a way that is additive and returns to exceed our cost capital, we think that's the right thing to do for the franchise. And so that's our focus. As we mentioned earlier, we do have a transition to Loan growth beginning in the second quarter, the average loan growth 1.5% to 2%, but spot loan growth in the second quarter will be higher than that. As things begin to accelerate, you could see 3% or better spot growth in the Q2 alone and seeing those numbers go higher still if the environment unfolds the way we That's our focus. To the extent that we have excess capital even after supporting all of those things, then that's when you get into How we look at returning it to shareholders through the form of buybacks and thinking in parallel about bolt on fee acquisitions. All right. Thank you. Our next question will be from Scott Siefers with Piper Sandler. Go ahead. Good morning, guys. Thanks for taking the question. First question, sort of a follow-up on the capital one from the prior question. Just given that the credit concerns are kind of melting away, is there any opportunity to maybe revisit your internal capital targets a little lower, a little higher than some of your peers. And of course, some of that I'm sure is just due to the complexion of the balance sheet. But nonetheless, with the risk profile improving, just would be curious to hear any thoughts there. Yes, it's Bruce. So we've, as you're aware, have inched down over time. So I think initially we had a 10.25 target is our CET1 ratio and then we went to 10 to 10.25 and now we're 9.75 to 10. So I think initially coming out of the IPO as a relatively new company without a long term track record having a little higher Set 1 targets and peers made sense. You've seen through the CCAR work that our credit losses stress At median or better, slightly better than median. And so there's really not such a significant need any longer to carry that Little extra cushion, although I do like to sleep well at night, and so I think a strong capital ratio helps with that. But over time, we'll see where the peer group goes. And if the peer group continues to inch down given a Positive outlook for the foreseeable future. There's no reason that we couldn't do that as well. But at this point, we're locked For this year with that 9.75% to 10% range and I think that gives us plenty of firepower given the capital we're generating potential for future reserve releases to pursue our agenda of the significant loan growth and potentially some fee based acquisitions and also giving some back to our shareholders. Perfect. All right. Thank you. And then maybe John, just sort of a follow-up on some of the actions you took regarding rate sensitivity in the 1st quarter, I think I can sort of back into some of it based on kind of what you said about duration and things like that. But I think you guys have said in the past, your Rate sensitivity is sort of 55%, 45% short end versus long end. Is there any meaningful change in How that looks now following some of those Q1 actions? Yes, not much of a difference. I'd maybe call it sixty-forty. But basically, that's about where we are, See short, 40 long in terms of the complexion. Okay, perfect. All right. Thank you very much, guys. Sure. Next, we'll go to Ken Usdin with Jefferies. Your line is open. Hey, guys. This is Amanda Larson on for Ken. I guess on the loan growth outlook for 1.5% to 2%, you guys you did talk about the buckets, but if you can kind of just Talk about the mix that you would expect of just commercial versus consumer in 2Q, that would be helpful. Yes. I mean, I think that retail, I would describe it as is really going to be leading the way in the second quarter As commercial takes maybe begins its March and as the recovery Really contributes to higher utilization and as those loan pipelines that you heard from Bruce earlier begin to sort of realize themselves. So I'd say in the Q2, it's probably, I don't know, it's something in the neighborhood of 2 thirds, 1 third of the majority coming from retail. But commercial clearly contributing and beginning to be a bigger contributor as you get into the second half of the year. I think you've got For average loan purposes, you've got to work through some of the dynamics of the Q1. But what we're pretty excited about is on a spot basis, we see significant growth in The Q2, which will set us up well for growth in the second half of the year. So the goal really in the second quarter is to Really layer in that nice spot level of growth. It won't fully manifest itself in the average numbers. So therefore, we're at the 1.5 too, but it does, if we achieve it, set us up extremely well for the Q3. Okay, super. And then, John, can you just frame the conversation on swap with how much you earned on cash flow hedges in the first Quarter and then maybe what's expected for 2Q and beyond assuming LIBOR is flat from here? Yes. I mean, the way that we've talked about that in the past is really on a year over year basis given that the portfolio is contractual and you can sort of see it. We've talked Last year, based upon the portfolio that was in place at the time, that year from 2021 Would be about a, call it, dollars 75,000,000 to $80,000,000 decline in contribution from the swap portfolio versus 2020. Just with the $7,000,000,000 that we put on in the Q1, that's been cut in half. And so the headwind from swaps is really declining. If rates continue to rise from here, that number will continue to decline off of that level. I think the broader point though Is you can't really look at it in isolation. You've got to look at overall, as we indicated, net interest margin being Broadly stable, excluding excess cash and frankly rising, if you consider what's going on with deployment of cash and what's happening our expectations on loan growth. And another reminder on our deposit costs, that's a lever that's unique to We may have come down a little slower than others because we had a lot farther to come. And so at 20 basis points headed to call it mid teens in the second quarter headed to low teens to the end of the year. That's another driver. So Sure. Including all of the swap dynamics, net interest margin appears to be stabilizing And we'll it's an improving picture going forward. It's funny that what was a GAAP versus peers, which are slightly higher deposit costs Turns into a lever, turns into an asset when you're going through this environment. So many of the peers have already Reached levels that it's hard to improve upon on their interest bearing deposit costs where we still have some room to run. All set quick. All right. Thank you so much. We'll go next to the line of Bill Karkash with Wolfe Research. Go ahead. Thank you. Good morning. I wanted to follow-up on Your earlier comments, you guys have a unique view given your mix of consumer versus commercial lending. Can you give a bit more color on how you see pent up demand dynamics playing out across both groups as we make further progress into the reopening. It sounds like you think there will be a bit more gearing initially On the consumer versus commercial side, but I was hoping you could just expand on that thought process. And how does the excess liquidity that both groups have available play into That thinking. Yes, I can start. Yes, on the consumer side, I think The growth that we're projecting is sort of happening underlying right now. And we'll get a bit of a tailwind from the reopening and consumer confidence growing, but the structure of our products are so diversified and naturally set up to give us outsized growth. Mentioned earlier, student loan refinancing, you should think about that a lot like mortgage when rates are low. And even though they're ticking up a little bit, they're still historically low. That creates a boom Demand, it's almost like stimulus, another form of stimulus for customers that we're providing through restructuring their payments down. And so that just is naturally demanded now independent of reopening. Similarly, with point of sale, I mentioned as the economy reopens, Customers are starting to do big ticket purchases again. We're seeing our debit transaction average ticket go up pretty significantly. Those transactions are now up year over year, very clear consumers are starting to spend again, which means point of sale financing is well positioned for growth With the economy reopening, we're seeing that anyway, even independent of another tick up of the economy reopening and auto has been Hot market, but auto industry sales are really, really high and the market is still bearing outsized returns. And Well, the evening is good. We're going to continue we've got a diversified auto business, number 1 J. D. Power in the country In auto, we're very well positioned to grow that business in a well controlled way with double digit ROEs, which you don't typically see with auto. So Yes, I think as the economy reopens that should provide a bit of another nudge and a tailwind, but even at a moderately slow pace of the economy reopening, I still feel pretty good given the diversification of our business that we'll get the growth that we're calling for in consumer. Yes. And I would say we still would expect to see some elevated cash levels and a lot of times that's Kind of geared to folks who worked in the service industries and have loss of employment and are still kind of holding on The precautionary cash levels given circumstances. So that will, I think, run down fairly gradually. These other factors that Brendan mentioned are somewhat separate from that. They're not as impacted by The stimulus money that's been paid out. And then I think on the commercial side, it's really just a question of how fast Folks take a positive view about the need to meet demand. If they see demand rising, then they can start Investing and then how do they finance that they can use some of the big liquidity levels that they were able to amass. But I think you'll see that corporate cash start to drop some, but then going back and borrowing on lines is Kind of the next phase that you would expect to see and then some special purpose facilities to build a new plant or things like that or Just the deals that continue to happen and the financing that goes with those acquisitions. So we would expect To see we're already starting to see that some of that cash is getting put to work and it really just depends on how fast the view About the economic improvement solidifies. That's helpful. Thank you. If I could follow-up, Do you think that the elevated payment rates that we've been seeing really on the consumer side broadly have peaked based on what you guys are seeing or particularly with the effects of the latest stimulus checks or could those potentially Remain elevated for a bit longer here before we start to see them come down and I guess contribute a bit more to some of that improvement in balances that you're expecting. Yes. So the elevated stimulus on prepayment rates is mostly felt on credit card, which we are in our guidance still calling for Credit card to shrink slightly, healthy purchase activity, but there's a lot of cash out in the environment. As you point out, some of the prepay rates That we're seeing on other products are not necessarily stimulus driven like mortgage, with a lot of churn and refinancing, where we're originating taking share, but The portfolio is growing, but there's a lot of underlying prepayments, but that will start to slow as interest rates go up Moderately, although we still think volume and demand is going to be very, very heavy, but it's going to turn towards purchase versus refi. So we should see A natural slowing of prepay on the mortgage portfolio. I'd also say on home equity, we don't talk about that very often. It's a very big business for us and it's been Slowly shrinking and shrinking faster in the industry. You've got a lot of the big banks that are sitting on the sidelines at the moment that have really curtailed or even shut down their home equity originations platforms. So we're enjoying market share that's almost double what we naturally get, which we naturally get really high market share this industry, so I expect us to at a minimum be a slower decline than others on home equity for prepaid speeds given the size and pace of our And there's some optimism potentially that we could start to see home equity flatten and not be a headwind anymore for us. So There's a lot of dynamics I think at play there, but really your question around stimulus would be most built in credit card and that is called for in our underlying guidance and more than offset by those other dynamics. We'll go next to the line of Saul Martinez with UBS. Go ahead please. Mr. Martinez, your line is open. Go ahead. Sorry about that. I was on mute. Thanks for taking my question. You indicated that Most of the expected decline in non interest income is coming from lower mortgage banking fees, but that it should sort of hit a floor in the second Quarter. I guess, I just want to understand the logic there a little bit better. What gives you confidence that We will see a floor and we'll start to see in 2Q and we won't see further compression In margins beyond that, that pressures the overall fee line. And then secondly, I'll just ask my second question now. On the swaps, what receive rate are you getting on those? Because I guess I understand The logic of averaging in and legging into it, but maybe I guess the flip side It does seem a little bit out of step on the surface to me with the view that you expect rates It seems like maybe you can argue that it's a bit premature to leg into it already. So you just flush that out for us a little bit. Sure. On mortgage, What we've seen happen kind of starting in late Q3 into Q4 was The industry gearing up in terms of capacity, adding capacity to really capture the whole refi Opportunities and that and then you had some of these big non bank players going public and Being pretty aggressive around market share. So the very high gain on sale margins that were kind of frankly of Amazing and unsustainable back in Q3 have started to normalize back to historical levels based on those factors, those forces. And so we kind of see that playing out through the second quarter And then restoring kind of getting restored to levels that we've seen historically and the current view is Unlikely to go meaningfully below that. So that's the assumption that we're making. The flip side to that is that there There's also a strong outlook for originations. We're looking at over $3,000,000,000,000 which would be Next to 2020, another record year in terms of originations and we're probably seeing a shift from Refi to a little bit more purchase in the mix and we're very well positioned in our retail channel to capture that. So Still looking at strong level of originations, so there's really no headwinds there at all. And then the size of our servicing book and The MSR asset, all of that should offer somewhat of an offset to the fall in margins. So we'll see. I think we've been pretty good at forecasting these dynamics, but the market is the market. We'll How it plays out, but I think we've thought pretty hard about the factors and trying to project those out. And so we feel pretty confident that that's So the likely scenario for Q2 and then for the rest of the year. So I'll stop there unless you want to add anything, Brendan. I think it's well said. The one maybe Dave point I would add to that just to kind of accentuate the rebound in purchase I think some of the refi decline is that over the last 45 days, we've seen about a 30% growth rate in purchase volume coming through our retail channel. So It's not just hopes and dreams. We're seeing it actually in real momentum through the business. So we feel pretty good about the volume outlook Bruce's point, the margins bottoming at 2019 levels is really the key assumption that it doesn't go any deeper than historical levels and we're seeing it So we'll flip the second question over to John. Yes, thanks. So I think the point here is, we saw a pretty rapid rise in the 5 year over the last several months. As I mentioned, I think at the end of last year, it was around 40 basis points. It had gotten, I think, frankly, north of 90 basis points, but think it's settling in around 80 right now. That is really, emblematic of the first sort of risk triggers that we Basically, this is an interest rate risk hedging program and that hedging program really requires us to consider Where our asset sensitivity is and what the downside exposures are. And so from that perspective, we have several Sort of triggers and tranches of hedging that we'll do over time. This is the first one. And I think there would be another one as As and if rates continue to rise, although it's our expectation that rates will continue to rise the last sort of couple of weeks, Maria, is a reminder that Things can deviate from your base case. And so we're just being prudent risk managers and taking our asset sensitivity from around 11% To something that's in the very high single digits. And as we get to the top of the rate cycle, we'll get back down to something that's in the lower single digits similar to where we've been And that's a very prudent sort of approach versus waiting around for the perfect time begin to hedge. The other question you asked was what the receive rate was during that range of 40 to 80 basis points And the 5 year region, most of that hedging towards the upper end of that range. But that will give you the answer there. Good. All right. I think Have a great day and everybody stay well. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that concludes today's conference call. Thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect.