Welcome to the 31st Annual Transportation, Airlines, and Industrials Conference. I think the name is a little bit, I would say, out of date maybe because we've decided this year to put a lot more industrials into transportation and airlines. And so this is, in a way, a reboot of the event at a much bigger scale in New York, and I'm very happy that all of you are here. And we have a lot of multi-industrial companies here, a lot of other industrial companies. Look, I think the big themes that we're going to be focusing on this year is industrial recovery. I think investors are waiting for a bounce back in the PMI. I think people are looking at the turn in water activity among industrials.
Meanwhile, I would say for the first time since the 1950s, the U.S. has a meaningful industrial policy which is shaping a lot of growth in the sector. Our work indicates that 1/3 of the industrial verticals has generated over 100% of growth in the industrial space over the past several years, and it's really aerospace plus the key verticals that the U.S. industrial policy is focusing on. We actually see a very, very bright future for industrial growth over the next several years. We do think it's structural in nature, so we think we're still in very early innings of what's going to be a multi-year growth cycle. And with that, very lucky to have Honeywell here, and we have Jim Currier, who's President and CEO of Honeywell Aerospace Technologies.
Honeywell is one of the biggest aerospace players globally, and obviously, I said that aerospace is one of the most exciting sectors that we have in our coverage, and aerospace is one of the crown jewels of Honeywell's portfolio. Jim, welcome, and we'll go into the Q&A. Thanks so much for that. Okay. Hi, Jim. Yeah, of course.
Very nice to meet you.
Yep.
Throw a mic on you real quick?
Sure thing. Seeing the slides, I know. Slides. A couple of slides, right? Yeah.
We'll take a look at your slides. Okay?
All right. Well, Andrew, first of all, thank you so much for allowing me an opportunity to spend some time with you and the broader audience here to talk a little bit about Honeywell, Honeywell Aerospace in particular, and some of the things that I'm really excited about. I thought maybe I'd just open it up just with a couple of slides that give some background and context a little bit here. A couple of things I would say is when I think about Honeywell Aerospace, our positioning in the market segment, and how we look about our ability to grow, I kind of look at it as the framework of a home, ultimately. Do you have the foundation? Do you have the walls? And do you have the material to kind of pull it all together, ultimately?
And so when I think about the foundation of this particular business, I think about the long-term tailwinds that we have that are set up, the continued growth that we're seeing in our bizjet market in terms of OEM growth, continued growth in flight hours that are occurring, industry-leading positions in terms of some of the platforms that we're on, our cost positioning as well within the market segment, our growing defense business, all are the foundational bases from which we can build upon. And then I think about where we are in terms of the walls and the roof of the business and our positioning with respect to what we call the future of aviation.
I think about the massive amount of wins that we've had, the record backlog that we have on our books today from wins that we've had across the market segment, how we've been investing substantially in our portfolio across all of our business segments, across all of our strategic business units with a lot of what we're doing in terms of flight deck, electrification, electromechanical actuation as well. And then I think about the system that brings it all together, the operating system, kind of the glue, the nails, the hardware that kind of pulls it all together. And I would argue we've got a best-in-class operating system across Honeywell Aerospace and across our industry. We've digitized most of our processes, if not almost all of them. We have a single instance of ERP, data-driven analytics across the board, access to immediate data to make sound decisions.
And then the incorporation of genAI in our businesses and our portfolios going forward kind of brings it all together, ultimately. And then when you have that backdrop, you start now thinking about the market and what's occurring in the market, and are we positioned properly? And some of this here just talks a little bit about what I was mentioning beforehand about where we are in the bizjet market. But the one thing I would highlight on this page as well is what we call decoupled portfolio. This is our decoupled growth that's not aligned to what's occurring in the market segment, not aligned to growth on OE production, not aligned to growth in the aftermarket in terms of flight hours that are occurring. This is where we introduce our retrofits, our mods, and our upgrades across the portfolio to drive that decoupled growth.
That business, for us, is substantial. It's largely attributable to the installed base that we have across the industry and across all three market segments that we serve. And as well, that's a business that's well in excess of $1 billion a year and growing at about 10% CAGR. You combine all of that together, and you start looking at our long-term growth algorithm across where we report out on our three segments, whether it's commercial, original equipment, where we anticipate high single digits long-term growth, our commercial aftermarket mid-single digits, and then our defense and space also growing at mid-single digits on a long-term horizon. But then I think about, well, why are we in this position that we're in? Why do we win? What's our competitive offering that we have?
And again, I think it's really around the value that we create across our portfolio and the strategic focus that we apply across our portfolio, not just from a tactical perspective, but the strategic overlook of where we are investing. And that represents the four blocks that you see on that page, which is all four of our strategic business units, whether we're talking about innovation in the cockpit in terms of safety, in terms of autonomy and autonomous operations, reduced crew interface, reduced crew operations, whether we're talking about sustainable aviation fuels, electrification, electric power units, hybrid power, fuel cells, whether we're talking about electromechanical actuation, thermal management, and then our digitalized processes and services and offerings that we have. And then that lays out the foundation of this competitive advantage that we feel that we have across this particular industry.
It's the investments that we're making at the tip of the spear in terms of technology and our advanced technology work that we do. You combine that with our differentiated products, our differentiated offerings. You combine that with our broad exposure to multiple market segments where we serve both business aviation, air transport, defense and space that's not monolithic in terms of the end markets that we're serving. That large installed base is a great foundational to build upon when I refer to those decoupled growth opportunities with RMUs, and then the best-in-class operating system that we have going forward. Those five elements of what we truly feel are competitive advantages for us, combined with the market outlook, combined with where I think we are in terms of our tailwinds that we have and our growth opportunities.
That's why, for me, it's a really exciting time to be a part of Honeywell Aerospace and our growth algorithms going forward.
Excellent. Look, I think I had an opportunity to thank you, Sean, for spending time with the senior management. I think there are changes afoot at Honeywell. You have a new CEO, changes in corporate structure. Before becoming CEO of Honeywell Aerospace Technologies, you ran the electronic solutions business. So how does your experience in electronics translate to the entire aerospace group, and what are your key learnings since assuming the Honeywell Aerospace Technologies mantle?
Yeah. So I think it's important that I've had an 18-year career at Honeywell Aerospace that spanned multiple dimensions of different portions of the business that I ran. The electronic solutions portion of our business is the largest strategic business unit that we have. So coming into that role, I would say a couple of key learnings that I had that I've been able to bring into my current position, and that is just understanding the more complex nature of our entire business, all the way from front to back of the business in terms of supply chain in the back, customer support, and then all the way on the customer-facing end of the equation. The other element that I would say is while I was in that seat running electronic solutions, we launched our flagship avionics product portfolio, which is Honeywell Anthem.
And so as we've launched a new product, we've launched this flagship product. Another good learning that's come out of that is we look at the rest of the portfolio that we're doing in terms of other flagship products that we'll be launching currently and in the future as well. I think some of the some of the learnings coming in this role, I don't know if I would say necessarily, Andrew, that it was learnings as more of a reaffirmation of things that I believed. That is that in this seat that I'm in today, I have the ability to touch the over 20,000 employees that we have across Honeywell Aerospace. I've always been firmly convinced about the drive, the motivation, the commitment, the intellect that our employees possess, and the innovation that they drive across the board.
And that was more myopically in the world that I was operating in within electronic solutions. But now that exposure across the board, it just reaffirmed that as I touch and I interact with all of our employees worldwide, it just never ceases to amaze me what they deliver and their commitment and their commitment to customers. And so I think, for me, that was one of the bigger learnings that came out of it, which was kind of more of a reaffirmation of what I believed beforehand.
Gotcha. Maybe just a little bit just touching current air outlook. You reported first-quarter earnings, pretty dynamic situation out there. What have you been seeing in the business, and how has the commercial and defense supply chain trend that I guess commercial is more electronics, defense more mechanical? And what are the near-term sources of uncertainty?
So I think some of the things I would say is we did have a very good Q1 this year. I mean, our growth is fundamentally limited by our supply chain. It's not limited by the demand that we have. We've got a record backlog currently within Honeywell Aerospace. And so that is still a little bit of a choppy environment. And we did have some good tailwinds that happened in Q1 that enabled that growth that we've seen. We continue to see growth in the commercial OE segment, aftermarket segment. Defense and space had a very good year. And I think it's largely attributable to our continued investment in the supply base that's resulting in continued unlock of the supply base. So we had double-digit output out of our factories this quarter in Q1.
That's our seventh quarter in a row where we've been able to demonstrate that going forward. We continue to expect that on the longer-term horizon as well. And so that's kind of been the framework and the setup for us and why we feel the commercial part of it has been a big driver.
Excellent. And just growth targets, you raised the growth targets for air to mid-single digit, high single digit. Can you walk through the components of that? Just question we're getting, does this assume that air is going to grow with the industry, or are you guys going to outgrow?
Yeah. So what I would say is the components that kind of make up our growth algorithm. I think about the commercial OE portion of our business, both air transport and business aviation. That's going to grow roughly 20% going forward. Our aftermarket will be growing at double digits, and our defense and space will be growing high single digits. And so in that algorithm, you can kind of see that mid- to high-single-digit overall that we've been forecasting for aerospace. And I think that is going to continue going forward for us.
Maybe just market outgrowth on the commercial OE business. What are the opportunities? Because I think in the past, you've sort of guided to outgrow. But what are the key initiatives for you to be able to drive above market growth on the commercial side in this environment?
Yeah. So I think part of it is obviously being on the right platforms that are growing with the right set of content and the right set of products, ultimately. And I think where we end up driving a little bit more in terms of commercial is going back to the comment I made a moment ago, which is around the aftermarket and that decoupled growth. That truly is a muscle within Honeywell Aerospace that we've been exercising now for well over a decade and continuing to grow that. So I think you combine the OE aspect of what's happening in the market, combine with what we're doing in the aftermarket, particularly in the decoupled growth, that sets up this algorithm for us to be able to outgrow the market, ultimately, in commercial.
Gotcha. And just the uncertainty about one of the questions that was raised, I think, what is the uncertainty about the OE deliveries due to visibility on the aftermarket? How do the two balance each other?
So what I would say is there are some uncertainties, obviously, on the OE market in terms of what's happening. I mean, Boeing has been making a lot of headlines relative to that and what they're going to end up doing for full rate for the year. We stay very, very closely tied out with Boeing in terms of what they're doing. If there are some adjustments that are happening in there, I don't feel they'll be meaningful overall to Honeywell. Again, thinking about our backlog and thinking about still where we are overdue on some of our shipments and deliveries to customers. But if there is a change that happens in terms of that OE demand cycle, it does afford an opportunity to maybe reallocate some of the capacity and some of that material either to other OEMs where there's common parts and/or over into the aftermarket as well.
So again, there could be a mixed differential that happens depending upon the amount of change that happens on the OE demand forecast profile. A little too early to tell at this stage, but that could be a potential upside for us that allows us then to reallocate more towards the aftermarket versus the OE.
Right. That's exactly what I was asking. Okay. So let's talk about flight electrification because clearly a theme for you. So electrification, autonomous flight is likely several decades away from commercial aviation, right, sort of weight, power requirements, safety standards. But what are the latest developments broadly in electrification, autonomous flight? How is Honeywell positioned here, and what differentiates you from your competition? Key hurdles are the investment, technology. I would imagine regulation figures quite a bit into it. And ultimately, what makes this investment profitable for Honeywell over the long term?
So in terms of electrification and autonomy, I think one of the end market segments that's driving a substantial amount of technology advancement is what we call our advanced air mobility market segment, eVTOLs as an example. So they sort of have been the tip of the spear in terms of driving some of these technologies going forward as opposed to those technologies being driven in the traditional air transport market and/or business aviation as an example. And so we've been doing a lot of investment in that area. But I think the thing that I would say relative to electrification and autonomy and the investments that we're making in that space is that it's not bespoke to the advanced air mobility market segment.
Those technologies that are being developed have the ability to transcend that market and come back into what I would refer to as traditional end markets, whether, again, that's commercial and/or defense. So allowing that market to mature the way it's been maturing has been very beneficial not only to that end market segment and the development of that end market segment, but it will have direct benefits to the rest of the industry as a result of the investments that are being made there. Now, in terms of adoption, technology advancement, and maturation of that, it's at different levels depending upon the technology that you were referring to a moment ago. Electrification is here and now. Battery technologies, I think, are still developing going forward. But then you've got fuel cell technologies, hybrid electric power technologies as well.
Electromechanical actuation is not an advanced technology in terms of futuristic and adoption. That's something that could be happening here and now. But the one thing that I would say is what's very interesting about that end market segment for, and I think what positions us a little bit better than others, is the breadth of technology that we bring. So if you think about some of this advanced air mobility and market segment, we provide integrated cockpit systems, flight control systems with our compact fly-by-wire. We provide electromechanical actuation systems. We provide electric motors for that. It allows you to actually integrate everything that would have been at a subsystem level to a fully integrated system onto the aircraft. And by having that entire system of a fully integrated architecture, it avoids the issues around integration. It avoids the issues around commonality that can be applied.
You're actually able to maximize the efficiency of the performance of the aircraft at that point in time because everything is talking to one another off of a common set of architecture from one OEM. I think that becomes for us a clear differentiator in that segment. The fact of the matter is that we know how to certify products in this segment as well, and that becomes also a differentiator.
Just from regulatory, just to throw it in, from regulatory, which part of the world do you think is the furthest ahead in terms of regulatory environment?
I would say today, you're seeing a lot more of the AAM space opening up in China as an example. They're already flying there today from a regulatory standpoint. I don't necessarily see any time in the short term where any of these Chinese manufacturers of eVTOL aircraft are going to be bringing them over into the West for flying that. I think that's not going to happen. I would agree. I would say Europe is leading, definitely, in this space. I think they've taken a very, very leadership position. They've been very vocal about that and setting standards in how to certify these types of aircraft going forward. And I think others are adopting to the standards that are being set by EASA in that regard, the FAA being one of those.
I think, hopefully, with the FAA reauthorization bill, hopefully being signed here this week, will allow a little bit more harmony of those requirements between the FAA and EASA going forward in this particular segment as well. But I see if there's going to be where the first launches of some of these markets will be, you're going to see it in Europe. You'll see it in the Middle East as well. I think the Middle East has taken a very aggressive posture in terms of wanting to bring in this technology and this infrastructure and looking towards EASA for the standards that they are establishing there for local standards to be incorporated. But I ultimately see that that's going to be a great growth potential for them as well.
No. And you guys have come in the past too. We had a technology conference, and I don't know if people appreciate how dominant you are in terms of systems for that industry, so.
We've been playing very heavily in that regard and very proud of what we've been doing.
Maybe we can talk about defense and space key drivers. And I think for us, it's been international sales. So how do you see the evolution of the international sales over the next several years? We've estimated that this part of the business grew at north of 6% from 2017 to 2023 and picked up to double-digit growth in 2023. What's happening? Is it rising defense budgets in Europe? And what's the growth trajectory from here?
You actually nailed it. It's the rising defense budgets that are being.
Okay. So we're finally seeing it in the numbers.
We're finally seeing it in the numbers across the board. I mean, obviously, regional conflicts that are occurring between Russia and Ukraine, conflicts that are occurring now in the Middle East, and the heightened pressure and tensions that are occurring in Asia as well are creating a lot of investment from both NATO and/or our allies in Asia that are starting to drive more investment. I mean, Japan is a great example of that where they've indicated that they're going to double their investment in terms as a percent of GDP going forward. That translates into literally tens of billions of dollars on an annual basis of increased investment going forward. And we have a lot of product that we sell into Japan as an example. South Korea is another example. Australia is another example where investments in defense are increasing at a rather rapid clip going forward.
So we see that as a great growth potential for us in terms of international defense and probably will outgrow our domestic defense business on a percentage basis, not in terms of absolute dollars, but on a percentage basis that will outgrow our domestic defense budgets. And that also plays into our strategies that we have in terms of Europe as well. I mean, we recently announced our intent to acquire a company called Civitanavi in Italy that forms really a foundational, I'll say, block in our strategy to develop technologies that are non-ITAR controlled through what they do there at Civitanavi. It establishes a manufacturing footprint as well in Europe for us for those particular products.
It allows us now to open up more potential to sell those types of products into Europe as well, which right now, there's a strong drive for more indigenous capability within Europe to be more self-sufficient and not as reliant on U.S. technologies. And so that actually is going to be an enabler for us to do that going forward.
That's fantastic. Now, you also do have a commercial aerospace business. So maybe we can talk about aftermarket. So what are your key priorities in running the commercial aftermarket? How do you manage this part of the business? And what do you think is done particularly well in the business?
So first and foremost, the priority, whether we're talking commercial aftermarket or OE, is truly unlocking our supply base. We still have a substantial amount of overdue orders to our customers in the commercial aftermarket space specifically, and we're continuing to address that through unlocking the supply base. So it is absolutely the number one priority for Honeywell Aerospace is to continue to invest in the aftermarket in terms of unlocking the supply base and continuing to support our customers going forward. The one thing I think that we do very, very well in terms of our aftermarket business is what I referred to beforehand around this decoupled growth enabler, these retrofit mods and upgrades that are enabled through the foundational basis of our large installed base. It's truly understanding what customers value in terms of features and functions.
It's a true understanding of how to enhance situational awareness in the cockpit for pilots to enhance safety across our industry as well. So having a really good understanding of what our customers value, having a really good understanding of what their needs are in terms of return on investment, and continuing to provide those products into the aftermarket, I think, is something that we do exceptionally well. And I think it's as evident by the growth that we've been seeing in that space specifically around these RMUs at that 10% CAGR.
And just going to sort of old-school definition, ATR and BGA. So ATR is more commercial. BGA is business and general aviation. So historically, just looking at the numbers, ATR business has been two to three times the size of BGA. And just trying to see where we are today because I think over the past decade-plus, air transport deliveries have grown at 1.2% CAGR, but BizJet deliveries have actually declined over the same period of time. So just trying to see where is ATR business today versus its historical, and is it fair to say that ATR today is somewhat bigger than it's been historically on a relative basis?
I don't know if I would say it's so much bigger on a relative basis or as a percent. The reason why I say that is that, yes, there has been substantial growth in the ATR commercial segment, as you mentioned a moment ago. But there are products that we have on those platforms that are selectable, ultimately. And so we don't have 100% selections on some of those, right? And so that is split a little bit between us and our competitors to some extent. So it doesn't grow one-for-one with every single aircraft going out in the air transport space. Business aviation has been a very high point for us. And that segment actually covers a large variety of aircraft, anywhere from ultra-long haul, super midsize, smaller aircraft, midsize aircraft, and below. And we play in certain parts of that segment.
We don't play in every single part of that segment today, mostly super midsize and above where we've been very, very well positioned not only with our avionics systems on those platforms but also with our HTF engine and super midsize class and, again, our auxiliary power units, electromechanical systems in terms of environmental control and cabin pressurization. That portion of that segment in business aviation, super midsize and slightly larger, has been growing very, very well, and that's where we play heavily, right? And so in general, you could say business aviation has declined or been a little bit of flatish, so to speak, over that horizon that you're referring to, Andrew. But where we play specifically in that space has been growing quite well where we have substantial content on those platforms.
Just to get an appreciation of what's happening in BGA, I think historically, you had best content on a big one, Gulfstream, maybe less so on Bombardier, Dassault, and I think nothing on Cessna. How has this evolved over the past decade? Is it still where we are?
Yeah. I think it's evolved more favorably. I'll pick Cessna as one example. I mean, historically, going back some time, we did not have an engine on a Cessna aircraft. Well, today, we have our HTF on the Cessna Longitude aircraft, and that becomes a growth enabler for us. We still have other products. Again, I go back to the broad breadth of our portfolio that we have, anywhere from the cockpit to the engines to APUs and cabin pressurization, radar systems, safety systems, and so on. Even though it may appear that we have less content on certain aircraft, we still have some content there, right? Our APUs are pretty much on most of those platforms going forward. Cabin pressurization, environmental control systems are on most of those aircraft platforms across those various OEMs that you referred to a moment ago.
We've been very fortunate in terms of our HTF engine, which is now on every single one of those OEMs that we have as well.
Just thinking about R&D, and I'm very curious, just sort of thinking going forward, and it's probably a separate conversation. But I think in general, if you look, the last thing you've disclosed is R&D was split, 55%-60% core, 30%-35% growth, and 10% breakthrough. So has the balance of investments shifted? How should we think about the balance of investment going forward? And clearly, UAM, eVTOL, what else excites you in the portfolio as a growth vector?
So one thing I would say holistically, what makes me very excited about what we're doing in terms of investment is that every single one of our strategic business units, and there's four of them, we are investing quite heavily in, every single one of them, whether it's avionics, nav and sensors, space, engines, APUs, electric power, electrification, electromechanical actuation, and then also in terms of connectivity. So there isn't one segment of our business or one part of our portfolio that we are not investing very heavily in. That, to me, is very exciting because it sets us up for the future. In terms of percentages and how we look at that going forward, what I would say is we look at our investments differently now in terms of how we categorize them. And we look along three parallel paths here.
We look at what we call NPI, which is new product introduction. We look at what we call breakthroughs, breakthrough initiatives. The third element would be around what we call advanced technologies or the tip of the spear of dabbling into certain areas, autonomy being one of them as an example, that would be incorporated or introduced into the market maybe five to 10 years from now. So if you look at along those three definitions, about 70% of all of our investment that we do today is in new product introduction. These are new features, new functions, new products to be introduced into the marketplace. Some of them are short-cycle. Some of them are on a much longer-term horizon.
This is for existing platforms mostly, right?
Correct. Correct. And newer platforms that are being envisioned for the future and certain technologies. So that would be 70% of our portfolio in terms of investment. I would say another 20% of it we're looking at would be around the area of breakthrough initiatives. So this is really around how do you take certain technologies that we have within the aerospace industry, and is there applicability of those technologies, of those capabilities, of those products in other industries as well, adjacencies that may exist. So we invest in that area to drive some opportunities for growth outside of traditional market segments. And then you have your 10%, which is really around advanced technologies. This is really pushing the envelope in terms of tech advancement in certain areas.
Again, that's going to be largely driven around what we think are some of the major trends happening within the aerospace industry. Again, it's autonomy. It's reduced pilot operations. It'll be around electrification, fuel cells, power gen systems. Those are the kind of areas that we'd be focusing in in terms of that 10%.
Thank you. Maybe going back to defense and space in remaining time. So how should we think about key platforms? Because you have a number of them, right? You have C-17, Bell 407. It's a long, extensive list. Also F-15, F-18, F-16, your endurance strike fighter, right? Yes. So how should we think about the relative importance of various platforms to defense and space going forward? What should we focus on?
Yeah. So I'd say we've been very fortunate to be on multiple platforms there. And so that actually becomes part of our growth driver in terms of international defense as well because all of our allies are flying those same platforms, continue to fly those platforms, so produce that growth potential for us in the international segment. But I think the other platforms that we don't talk too much about that are super important is F-35 as an example. And we have a substantial amount of content on F-35 today. And so that's something that we're very excited about in terms of the growth opportunities that exist there, both domestically and internationally. But we're also on trainers that are becoming much more growth potential. So the M-346 is an example, which is a trainer aircraft that's being deployed internationally. We have the engines on that aircraft.
We have the APU on that aircraft as well. T-5 is another opportunity. And then when you start thinking about newer platforms going forward, I start thinking about CCA, collaborative combat aircraft, increment one, increment two, and the potential that that has for our products on those platforms and also, again, sixth-gen fighters as well.
Okay. Excellent. Just looking at the President's budgets, what are the trans programs? Just generally note, what are the things in the latest President's budget as far as Honeywell is concerned?
Yeah. So I think when I look at the president's budget, I look at it in two specific areas and areas that we are absolutely playing in and investing in and developing products. One of them would be around directed energy. So we have a lot of work that we're doing in terms of thermal management for directed energy systems, which is a high area of focus and budget allocation in this defense budget. Hypersonic technology as well, where we provide a lot of the electromechanical actuation and capabilities for hypersonics going forward. And then obviously, with the conflicts that are occurring, a substantial amount of investment happening in missiles and munitions where we provide a substantial amount of guidance equipment and guidance systems for those as well.
And so as you think about that budget, you think about where the allocation is in terms of funding and how we're positioned, we feel very comfortable where that has landed.
Maybe I'll skip in the time, just skipping to services and connectivity. I think back in 2017, you had a target to reach $1 billion in sales by 2021, and this would have increased services percent of the portfolio from 6%-9% on our math. Can you just talk about how this initiative panned out and where we are today with the services business?
So we're very excited still about the services business, and we haven't achieved the exact $1 billion that was referenced there beforehand, Andrew. But what I will tell you is that we have done some portfolio shifting within the businesses, moving some things out of that business where it didn't seem to make sense going forward and moving some things back into that business where it seemed to make more sense. And if you think about services and connectivity, it's really around connected SAT systems that we have, what we call our JetWave X in terms of hardware and hardware offerings for that. But then also, it's really wrapped around software and all of our software offerings that we have within our portfolio and the connectivity thereof.
So if you think about anything that we do in nav databases that are tied to installations that we have for our cockpit systems, all of that revenue, all of that business is being driven out of services and connectivity. And we're still very excited about the growth potential there, where we're seeing anywhere between 6%-8% continued growth on a CAGR basis for that business, again, as our footprint increases and our ability to drive value-added offerings in terms of software solutions enable that to happen.
So Anthem is inside there?
Not yet, but it will be.
Okay. So let's talk about Anthem. Last question, been large product focus for Honeywell today. Where does this business fit in today? Because I think it's been sort of moved around.
Yeah. So Anthem, again, is our sixth-generation cockpit system. We're moving away from what we had traditionally been using, which is Epic, which has been wildly successful for us and something we're very, very proud about in terms of that cockpit offering. But the technology on it is about 10-15 years old, and then we've just kind of been building off of that going forward. Anthem is very, very unique compared to our Epic offering. It's really driven by size, weight, power, connectivity capability that it has, and also the way that system is architected. It really is. I would call it a building block system where you can bring it down to a small application, AAM as an example, or a helo application.
By adding some more of these building blocks onto the architecture, it can go all the way up through general aviation, business aviation, air transport, and defense applications. That's what Epic could not do beforehand. It was pretty limited in terms of the segment that it could support. So that's why we're very excited about what Anthem can bring to the table. We've had now over six selections in terms of Anthem for cockpit systems going forward. Some of them I can discuss. Some of them are unannounced at this point in time. But I think to your earlier comment, that's where we've been very successful in the AAM space in terms of that offering, as well as there's been selections that have been made in business aviation as well going forward.
So again, very excited about what that Anthem product can afford us and the growth potential that it's going to bring to Honeywell Aerospace and cockpit systems going forward and our ability to drive that.
Just to sort of maybe a little more sort of software and sexy stuff, air traffic modernization, I think directionally, can you provide an update on how large this business is today? I think back in the day, I think it was up to 10%, sort of 10% including TS. Where are we today, and what excites you about that business going forward?
Yeah. It's about the same size in terms of overall. I'm really excited about it in terms of when I think about that's one of the enablers that's going to come out and is a requirement to have an advancement of the advanced air mobility space and the unmanned aerial mobility space as well. You're going to have to have enhancements in air traffic management going forward. So we are very excited about how we can influence that, how we can guide that, and obviously, in the most safest manner possible.
You're right on time. Thanks so much.
Thank you so much, Andrew, for your time. I really appreciate it. Thank you.