We're also joined by IMAX Chief Financial Officer Natasha Fernandes. This is IMAX's first hosted executive fireside, so I'll quickly review the webcast logistics. We have received questions in advance, which we've incorporated into today's discussion. Participants are also welcome to submit questions in the chat window. Please note that during this call, we will not be providing any information regarding the IMAX China or IMAX Corp Q4 2024 results or any updates to guidance. A replay of the webcast will be made available on IMAX.com shortly after the call. I would also like to remind you of the following forward-looking statements. Today's discussion may include statements that are forward-looking and that pertain to future results or outcomes. These forward-looking statements are subject to risks and uncertainties that could cause our actual future results to not occur or occurrences to differ.
Please refer to our FCC filings for a more detailed discussion of some of the factors that could affect our future results and outcomes. Any forward-looking statements that we make during today's discussion are based on assumptions as of today, and we undertake no obligation to update these statements as a result of new information, future events, or otherwise. With that, I will turn it over to Mark to get the discussion started.
Great. Thank you, Jennifer, and thank you, everyone, for joining us today, and great to see you as always, Daniel. Appreciate you staying up late in Shanghai to join us.
Nice to see you, Tom.
Start with a brief introduction of yourself, your background, and your role at IMAX China.
Sure. Thank you, and thanks for everyone for joining. So I've been in China about 20 years. I started my career here, actually, in finance after majoring in finance and Chinese. And for the last decade before joining IMAX, I've spent my career in the film industry. I worked for a company called CAA. I represented talent, directors, producers, film companies, as well as later managed the media finance group before joining IMAX. So I've been fortunate to watch IMAX really grow up in China. I share the story a lot. I remember in 2009 standing in line and buying tickets to Avatar when IMAX only had a few theaters in the country. And so it's been a real honor to join the company just about two years ago.
Great. And within that time and in your view, how have you seen IMAX China manage to scale its presence and build its competitive position?
It's a pretty incredible journey. There's a lot of challenges to doing business in China, which I'm sure many of the people on the call know. IMAX has built a real moat around its network. I think that was further galvanized last year when we signed this very large deal with Wanda. And a significant part of that deal was ensuring that that moat of key locations would remain within the network for another decade. But just looking at some of the numbers, as of today, premium formats in China make up anywhere between 7.5%-7.7% of the total box office, and IMAX is accounting for about 50% of that. So it's a pretty significant portion of the premium format business in China.
Great. So when you look at the landscape today, what do you see as happening at the Chinese box office, and how does or doesn't that connect to the broader economic environment in the country?
I think no business is unaffected by macro environments. However, it's really important to mention that we're in such a unique niche, right? I think that our business is more affected by film supply and content than it actually is larger sort of economic things. So the things that we think about the most affecting our business, in addition to the film supply and the content, are obviously government regulation, things like new policies from the Film Bureau, which we'll probably talk about a little bit later on, and obviously the consumer and the consumer's desire for premium formats. Fortunately, over the last five years, we've been seeing a growing trend in consumers wanting a more premium experience. That's not just in China. That's, I think, really worldwide. So that same trend, which is happening in North America, is indeed happening here as well.
Obviously, IMAX is pretty uniquely positioned to enjoy that.
Great. Bringing it into the present, there really appears to be a growing enthusiasm for the Chinese New Year slate. Can you walk us through that slate?
Yeah. It goes without saying. I mean, the industry media is very excited about this Chinese New Year. We're seeing a slate like we haven't seen in a long time. I think it's okay to talk about. We've already announced most of, if not all of, our slate. We're going to be doing big titles, most of which are second installments on IPs that have had tremendous success in China. Just to name a few, Creation of the Gods 2 is coming out Chinese New Year. That film we previously were indexing 10% on did about $35 million on the first one. This film looks incredible. We're really fortunate because we get to see a lot of these movies ahead of time, so we have a lot of insight as to how they're going to play and how we're going to market them.
Zha 2, obviously another juggernaut of a movie, is also going to be going in that window, and we did very well in the first one. Again, $35 million for IMAX box office. Detective Chinatown, again, a franchise that we have a lot of history with, and Chen Sicheng, the director there, and then Legend of Condor Heroes, which is a big title coming from CFG that has a lot of special effects and a lot of action, so we're not just us, but the entire industry is really bullish on this Chinese New Year.
Great. And you mentioned the Film Bureau. Can you explain to a little bit of the people the role they play in building the slate, how they've been focused on the Chinese New Year slate and how we work with them at IMAX?
Sure. Yeah. You know, the Film Bureau, I have to say, this is probably one of the most supportive film bureaus we've seen in a long time, and I think that is pretty obvious when you look not only at the number of Hollywood films that are now getting into China, but even censorship, seeing films like Deadpool make it in with limited cuts, Alien make it in with very limited cuts. There's a lot of motivation from the Film Bureau and other governing bodies to ensure that certain growth and success is achieved through box office and the performance of the theater business. So we have an incredible relationship with the Film Bureau. I was actually with them a couple of weeks ago in Beijing. The head of the Film Bureau, Mao Yu, has met with Rich and our chairman.
It's a unique relationship, and it's one that we take very seriously and we manage very carefully.
And then, given how stacked the Chinese New Year slate is, what does the rest of the local language slate for the year look like? And are you at all concerned that they've crowded too many big titles into that window?
Yeah, it's a great question. I think a lot of people here, when they first were getting wind of what films were going at Chinese New Year, that was the first question is, well, what's left, right? I can tell you, because we have so much insight into what is a very difficult sort of slate to figure out. Obviously, Chinese films don't date the same way as Hollywood titles do. And it really takes industry know-how to know what's in production, know what's in post, and what's most likely going to release during these periods. And I've got to say, compared to 2024, we've got a lot more transparency into what titles are coming out beyond Chinese New Year in summer and national holiday.
And more importantly, we can talk a little bit more about 2024 in a second, but I think what's really important is the budget levels, right? So we obviously perform best with big blockbusters. And we're already seeing 2025 as a whole being a much higher level of film investment and bigger budgets in the local language film. So that's giving us a lot of confidence, not only in the Chinese New Year, but really looking ahead. Another thing to note is we have seven Filmed for IMAX Chinese films in production, post, or completed at this point. That's the largest number of Filmed for IMAX titles the company's ever had. This is a big part of our ability to pivot, become localized, and to really capitalize on big budget local language films.
So we're going to see as many as three or four of those films come out in 2025, and we're really excited about that.
Great. And do you want to take a moment maybe to kind of explain to our listeners our dynamic programming strategy and how we approach a period like Chinese New Year and try to leverage our network to maximize the opportunity when you have so many titles in market?
Yeah, it's a great question. And it's one that's really unique, I would say, to this territory. We're fortunate enough to have the ability to pivot and be really agile. So this Chinese New Year, we're going to be doing four to five titles. Those four to five titles will play differently in different regions. And I think it's really easy to think of China just as sort of one giant big area. But in fact, each of these regions are so unique in their own taste and desire. So what we do with the programming here in China is we're able to play Hollywood titles in places that we know are going to play really well. And then in areas and territories where we see nuances to those audiences, we're also playing local titles, even sometimes at the same time.
That really allows us to diversify the content and maximize box office over all of those different regions.
I think one of the many big burning questions for folks on this call is whether Chinese consumers are still interested in Hollywood content, right, given the recent performance. What are your thoughts there, and do you think the 2025 slate for Hollywood holds interest for Chinese moviegoers?
Yeah, it's again another good question. I absolutely still believe Chinese audiences want Hollywood content. Just like everyone else in the world, they want good Hollywood content. I think the one thing that has changed is Chinese audiences also really want content that resonates with them, right? So we're seeing an increased level of production, of scriptwriting, and overall quality in the local market. So that inherently is going to compete with all other forms of content, including Hollywood. So do I think Hollywood content does not work in China? Absolutely not. And that's been proven with Alien, which actually made a higher box office for us in China than it did domestically in the U.S., as well as Godzilla. I think the 2025 slate offers a lot more.
2024 was not only a transition year for North America with the strike and so many other things going on there, but it was a transition year for China as well. I think one of the reasons why it was a lower than normal Box Office was because the local content was, again, to my earlier point, a lot lower budget. We saw a lot of small films. In fact, 50% of the Box Office was made up of really contained dramas and comedies, and that was understandable because the producers and financiers of these movies were just coming out of a very difficult time, and there was still a lot of unknown about how the market was going to react and how moviegoers were going to come back.
So I do think the 2025 slate not only looks really great for local language content, but looking at Mission: Impossible, Formula 1, Avatar, Zootopia 2. I mean, these are titles, in my opinion, that really do resonate with Chinese audiences.
You mentioned earlier Filmed for IMAX titles and the increase that we'll see this year in big budget projects from local language Chinese films. Can you tell us a little bit about our relationships and the current state of play with Chinese filmmakers and studios and how that dynamic might have grown or changed over the past several years?
I'd love to. That's kind of my favorite part is really the filmmakers themselves, and having been someone who spent so much time with Chinese filmmakers, I think that's a real key to our success in China. I think that localization is absolutely crucial. All of the Filmed for IMAX titles that we have releasing are with the biggest and best filmmakers in the country, and in a lot of ways, I wouldn't go as far as to compare sort of ourselves with, obviously, the North America relationship with Christopher Nolan, but we are really incubating that same environment here in China with not only the legendary filmmakers in China who have billions and billions of RMB and box office behind them, but also that next generation of young Chinese filmmakers that really represent the future of the industry, so that's an area I think we've made incredible progress on.
Like I said, we're doing the highest number of films we've ever done. And it wouldn't be possible unless we had those same personal filmmaker relationships like we have now.
You talk about kind of the bigger ambition and scale and scope of Chinese blockbusters. Is it the same with studios on the marketing side? How has their approach to launching these films changed?
You know, I think when we first started the, again, this was before my time at IMAX, but when we first started the program, the Filmed for IMAX program, it took a lot of work to convince producers and filmmakers that using our certified cameras was a useful thing to Chinese films. A lot of them said, well, that's great for Hollywood, but it's not really necessary for China. I think that's completely changed. I think, again, going back to the increased quality of production, what we're now seeing return to sort of normal budget levels and bigger budget films, they're seeing us as a real facilitator, not only in growing box office for the film, but also just upping the ante in the level of quality for the movies.
So I'll be honest, we say no more than we say yes, whether it's to DMRing films or even using our certified cameras. We are fortunately in the incoming call business for that area. And it's a good position to be in, but it's taken quite a bit of time to get there.
Great. So overall, IMAX is forecasting $1.2 billion in global box office in 2025, up from $900 million in 2024. First, an investor submitted a question. What, in your mind, is the reason for the steeper drop IMAX China saw in 2024 at the box office versus the industry overall, despite more Hollywood films getting it?
Yeah, I think that goes back to the content profile of 2024. Again, when you have over 50% of the films being really small, contained comedies, it's just a very different outcome in terms of our market share. I don't have the number offhand, but I think it was under 15% of them were sci-fi and action movies. And again, I've listed the reasons as to why that was. 2025 looks totally different. We're already going to see the Chinese New Year completely change that profile. And I think just to talk for a second about the Film Bureau and the industry's decision to go through with that, I think it's the right decision to jam-pack a lot of these big budget films head-on right at the beginning of the year. It's really giving a necessary sort of injection of adrenaline into the audiences.
And it's going to bring back that behavior that we did see pre-COVID. So I do agree with that strategy. And again, I see 2024 and 2025 being very different. We're absolutely expecting growth in box office.
So given that forecast for IMAX global box office overall, should we expect a similar level of improvement with IMAX China box office?
Yeah, I mean, obviously, I can't give specific guidance to that. I want to be careful how we talk about it. But I think the short answer is yes, given all the reasons that I talked about earlier.
Then turning to the network, what are the growth prospects for the IMAX network in China? In your mind, what is the big Wanda deal from last summer signal about the marketplace?
I think the Wanda deal really galvanizes the market position of IMAX. That deal would not be what it was if we hadn't had the brand that we have. So in addition to that deal, I see as we look at renewals over the next few years, our market power and ability to deliver on box office is going to drive those. So I think that was just one of many trends down the road to continue securing that network of IMAX screens. I guess your first question, sorry, that was the second part of your question. Can you repeat the first part? I forgot what you said.
Just the growth prospects for the network overall.
Oh, yeah. Yeah. You know, I think we've got a network of just about 800 screens in China, which is already extremely large. So our strategy is going to continue to be looking at the best locations with the highest PSAs and really growing in those quality areas. I don't expect that we'll be further expanding into fifth-tier cities and low PSA areas. It's just not really part of our priority right now. I think we're going to look at a pretty detailed upgrade strategy. That's a big part of our plan, as well as growing in first-tier cities. First and second-tier cities is really our biggest opportunity, and that's where we're going to be putting a lot of our energy.
A related question submitted by an investor. How prevalent are exhibitor premium format alternatives compared to the U.S.?
I would say there's a lot less. One of the benefits of being a first mover in this country that IMAX was really did eliminate a lot of smaller sort of PLFs from coming in and securing, again, once again, that moat really established us in such a meaningful way. We do have competition, obviously, just as any great industry would. But we are, I think I alluded to before, if we've got 7.5% of the total box office, let's say, coming from premium formats, and we're making up 50% of that, we're in a pretty unique position. We're going to be focusing a lot on the brand. We're going to be focusing on the customer. We're going to be focusing as much as our B2B business has been so great for us. We're also going to be focusing on that B2C business directly with the customer.
So making this experience better, not only in theater, but also outside of the theater. So I think that's a competitive advantage that we have. I think state-owned entities probably find that part of the business a lot more difficult. And I see that working to our advantage quite a bit.
I've heard you talk in the past also about some of these super premium flagship locations in some of the tier-one cities changing hands or coming up for renewal. Can you talk about the opportunity you see there to get into some of those locations?
Sure. In fact, a great example actually was a location that we just opened less than a month ago in Sanlitun. Sanlitun in Beijing is really the cultural hub of the city. It's where fashion meets young people and trends. And that was a site that was previously occupied by a competitor for over 10 years. And in a very highly competitive bidding process with everyone, we were able to secure that. That was a big win for us. And that's just one of many. We also just opened a site in Shanghai, which was a very similar situation. Again, as the brand strengthens, our ability to come in and steal market share of other people's network increases.
Shifting gears a little bit to alternative content. We've obviously seen kind of an increase in some new experiences across music and gaming and sports in China over the last year. Can you talk about some of those successes and then maybe what you see envisioned as a future opportunity?
Sure. Last year was a really interesting, I don't want to call it an experiment, but in a lot of ways, we tried some things that were outside of our comfort zone, and they proved to be pretty successful. The League of Legends, I think, blew everyone's mind having nearly 100% capacity for that event in first-tier cities and 90-plus occupancy for other-tier cities, and then, obviously, the NBA in Hong Kong and Taiwan was a great opportunity, and that's going to be one we're looking to expand in the mainland this year. I think that both of those examples have proven to us that this is not only a way to increase utilization within the theater in off-peak times.
Keep in mind, because those games, League of Legends, were happening in London, that event didn't even start until 11:00 P.M. here and didn't even end until after 2:00 A.M. So increasing the level of utilization in theater is a real strong point for us doing those. But more so, I would say, is tapping into new demographics. We have an incredible core group of IMAX goers here and movie goers in China. In fact, I read recently in an NRG study that there's about, in Western countries, about 35%-38% or so of the population is willing to go see a film in a theater. That number in China is 78%. So that just shows you right there the health of the moviegoer in China. And we can talk about why that is with demographics and the way the cities are set up.
But going back to the alternative content, this is really a way to tap into new younger groups, whether they're sports affiliates or gamers or people that simply loved going to the movies and forgot about that experience. We really think there's an opportunity to grow that bubble of consumer. And that's a big reason for why we're going to be expanding the alternative content plan in China.
Great. And then just to wrap up, what would you ask investors to take away from this call to kind of give them confidence that 2025 is going to see improving conditions?
One thing I would say is we've worked really hard over the last couple of years to remain agile and nimble. I think that'll be evident when we obviously announce our numbers. That's an important thing in China. I think, particularly in this time, you've got to be flexible. You need to pivot, whether it's with the content side of things, the business. We're going to continue to capitalize on new experiences. We're going to continue to dynamic program. When Hollywood films are really tracking here, we're going to be tapping into that 15% market share. When local language films are in production, big budget local language films, we're going to be growing the Filmed for IMAX program with those. Remaining nimble on the content side is a really important thing.
And then the second thing I would just say is I think that it's challenging to find a lot of good news about China these days. I mean, let's be honest, right? And we're in such a unique sector. And it's one that, again, will continue to be, I think, really healthy as long as the content supply remains. Quality Hollywood films, quality Chinese films, that's a big driver of our business. And so I guess the takeaway is really just that. I think we've set the business up in a really great way to capitalize on 2025. And I'm really excited about the film slate, both for local as well as Hollywood.
Excellent. Well, great. Thank you so much, Daniel. Again, appreciate you joining us. I think that's all the questions we have. So thank you, everyone out there, for joining. And enjoy the rest of your week.
Great. Thanks, Mark.
Take care.