Welcome back, everyone. We're going to get going. I'm Gerry Benson with Fidelity Investments, and I have the pleasure of hosting M&T Bank Corporation, a regional bank holding company headquartered in Buffalo, N.Y., and is the parent of M&T Bank. It is one of the largest regional banks in the northeastern U.S. and is the ninth largest in the U.S. by market cap at roughly $33 billion, and has assets of $221 billion at September 30th. M&T is a conservatively managed, relationship-focused bank distinguished by its strong commercial real estate franchise, its well-regarded Wilmington Trust wealth management platform, and its reputation for consistent through-the-cycle financial performance. Presenting today for M&T is Daryl Bible, Chief Financial Officer. He's joined us many times before, and happy to have him join us again. Joined the bank in June of 2023.
He has over 30 years of experience in banking and corporate finance leadership. Previously, he was the CFO of Truist, where he established a proven track record of economic transformations and operational execution. Daryl joined Truist predecessor BB&T in January of 2008, and that was after a 24-year career with U.S. Bank, serving 10 years as a treasurer. Please join me in welcoming Daryl. All right.
Okay.
I thought it would make sense, why don't we start with the big picture, Daryl?
Okay.
As you look toward 2027, how would you characterize the operating environment for M&T, and where do you feel the bank is particularly well-positioned?
Yeah. Thanks, Gerry, for being here and M&T and myself present today. Thank you for that. I think we enter the year in 2027 pretty optimistic of what we are doing. We have made significant changes in our company as we continue to operate and function. Two of our priorities that we have that really drive the company right now are, one is called Teaming for Growth, and the other is called Operational Excellence. When you look at Teaming for Growth, it is really getting all of our leaders that have all of our products and services that support our community banking markets come together, and really deliver full products and services to our customers. We have been doing that for a while, but we are doubling down on it, and actually this year, we have had some good growth in our regional platform of our customers and growing customers in that.
That has been a big positive for us. Eric Feldstein is now responsible for this community bank that we operate for the most part, in that he has the consumer side, he has the business banking, and he has the mortgage area. That together brings everybody together, and with his leadership and others around, we really deliver our community bank. On an Operational Excellence perspective, we are really remaking how we do business. We are really going down the path of trying to automate and get a lot more efficiency out. We are going into the back offices and basically having teams go in, map all the processes, and then tear the processes up and try to figure out how to use automation and AI to automate that.
If you see that, we have had a fair amount of success with that this year, and that is going to continue to grow and prosper into 2027 and beyond. Those two priorities are really helping us drive and get more momentum as we move the company forward.
Right. Okay, thank you for that. Maybe we can talk about the environment a little bit and the impact on M&T. The rate environment has changed pretty meaningfully over the past year. How should investors think about the implications to M&T's earnings power, particularly given the benefit from all the fixed rate repricing that you have, but you have a balance sheet that is neutral to slightly liability sensitive on the short end?
Yeah. From an interest rate perspective, what you said was right. Short end, we're relatively neutral, but slightly liability sensitive. Really depends on what your deposit rate is going to be, is really the main driver for that piece. But feel really good how we're positioned. The yield curve depends a lot on the fixed debt repricing. Steeper curve improves NII, flatter curve hurts NII to some extent. But we have about $16 billion of fixed rate assets that reprice over the next 12 months, and we'll get 75-100 basis point benefit on it based upon where the curve looks like today, which is a good guy. If the curve does, though, flatten down, we're pretty balanced in that we have two strong origination channels, both our resi mortgage origination as well as the commercial mortgage origination.
When the yield curve drops and gets closer to 4% on the 10-year, those kind of take off and really produce a lot of fee income for us. So that's very positive. The other countercyclical business we have is our servicing, our mortgage servicing business that we have. It actually does well when the economy is struggling. We're really a good sub-servicer in government servicing, FHA, the hard-to-service type customers. When the loans are delinquent, we get paid more fees, and when we get them out of delinquency, we get reward fees for that. So that's a countercyclical piece. So overall, M&T actually performs really well in both good times and bad times, and has much more consistency as we kind of move out and operate.
The biggest variable being just the shape flatter, obviously worse.
Yeah, but we can adjust and we can still deliver strong earnings in both scenarios.
Good. There's been a lot of discussion in the industry, returns versus NIM or NII versus NIM. You've emphasized optimizing total relationship returns rather than simply maximizing your NIM. How does that influence the way you're deploying the balance sheet today, especially in a more competitive lending environment?
Yeah, it's competitive. Some businesses more competitive than others, but it's definitely very competitive on both sides of the balance sheet. When you look at it, we really are driven to maintain a 17% return on tangible common equity. Not every transaction, not every customer relationship we have hurdles 17, but we are willing to take some under that hurdle and some over the hurdle, but we blend out close to the 17% return, which is really the objective we want to maintain long term, both good times and bad times. If you look at it, we believe that you don't have to maximize margin. If we have customers that really need demand in their lending services, we're willing to deploy that and grow NII positively, but maybe sacrifice a little bit on the NIM. I mean, our NIM is usually top quartile.
We feel very confident and can stay in top quartile in our peer group, and that's probably the right thing to do, both to support the customers that we're having, but also from a shareholder perspective, delivering more net earnings for you so we can redeploy back to the shareholders as well as to our own businesses.
Okay. Thank you. Maybe we could talk a little bit about the deposit franchise. Deposits have become an increasingly important differentiator from a competitive perspective. What do you think distinguishes M&T's deposit franchise, and how confident are you that customer deposit growth can fund your loan growth?
Yeah, that's a great question. M&T has historically always been driven by having strong growth in operating accounts, and that really hasn't changed. Our four businesses go to market every day trying to get the operating account from our customers. That's our consumer business banking, commercial, and wealth. That's really what they want to do. We believe if we get the operating account, we get other opportunities down the road for other products and services and help grow the relationship. That also helps fund the balance sheet. An operating account tends to have a low beta, is less rate sensitive, and that usually helps us keep our margins higher. That's key to how we deliver.
We've been investing in technology, whether it's in more digital capabilities so we can have more access and success having our customers basically open accounts online digitally, having more products and services so we can do at-work banking services to help deliver that to our customers and employees that our customers have from that. We're investing in that, and we're really focusing on it. In 2027, our focus is to make sure we grow households and net operating accounts in all of those businesses that I talked about.
Right. Okay, thanks. Then maybe we can touch upon just interest-bearing deposit costs increase about 10 basis points this past quarter. You guys have talked, or at least in the last couple of rate cycles, you've seen a deposit beta in the mid-50s. What do you see this time around, and is there anything structurally different this cycle?
Yeah, so there's a mix change, but the 10 basis point increase we had this past quarter, four of it was driven by a large add of CDs that we had in late second quarter, early third quarter. That cost four of the 10, so we were closer to six if we didn't have that CD drive there. What we put it on was at a 4% rate, which looks like a pretty good rate now in the marketplace, so that's a positive. As you look at the betas that you have there, the last cycle with rates increasing, our beta was 54%.
When you look at it, we believe we are going to be in the 50s, but it is going to tilt probably closer to 57, because the mix changes continues to be a little bit more on the more rate-sensitive side of the formula, which is kind of pushing the beta up a little bit. But we feel comfortable at 57. We will still have really strong net interest margins and support from that perspective, but that is kind of what we are seeing and forecasting right now.
When you say that, a mostly higher beta on the mix, is that an M&T-specific comment, or is that kind of an industry view comment?
Since this is kind of, you had rates go up and they went down a little bit, and now they are back up, I think people are just more aware of rate increases and
they are just asking for more rate-sensitive type funding from that perspective. I do not think it is an M&T thing. I think it is more of an industry thing, because of the frequency and how close the cycles have been to up rates.
Right.
I think people are getting more adapted to asking for more.
Okay. If deposit competition becomes materially more aggressive, where would you be more inclined to address it? Is it pricing? Is it wholesale funding? Is it pace of loan growth?
Yeah, I get that question asked a couple different ways, and what I would say is, we want to fund our balance sheet with core funding. But there's a ceiling to that, right? You don't really want to go over the wholesale market for funding if you don't have to. I mean, we have access to a lot of wholesale funding sources. Our preference is to come from a customer, but if rates irrationally go up for whatever reason, and I'm not saying they're doing that now, but if they did, then you'd probably switch back to a little bit more wholesale or securitizations or something like that to fund. But our objective and what we've shown to date is that we can fund loan growth. We've actually funded it and paid down some wholesale borrowings. So that's kind of where our mindset is.
But you're only going to pay up so much for a certain deposit and not really go over what you can get in the wholesale market.
Okay. That makes sense. Kind of hone in on a topic we have heard across the industry is whether AI-driven cash management tools ultimately make deposits more rate-sensitive and mobile. How do you think about that risk and what does a bank need to do to protect the value of their deposit franchise?
Yeah. This has come up a fair amount lately, and what I would say from our perspective, we see a very small percentage. It is a fraction of 1% of our activity that is coming into the company would probably be through these type of agents. It is a very small number. But they are trained to actually act like humans such that it is not going to all go in real fast. It is going to go in at the pace a human enters information and all that. Right now, we have only seen extracting information on what account balances they have, the customer's credentials of information, and what rates we are paying, but really have not seen any movement of money or asked to change products or services.
We know some of our peers are out there and not allowing that to happen. We are closely watching it right now, and if we see anything that we think is not appropriate, we will try to shut that down or shut it down and do that. But right now, we are not seeing anything that we are concerned about.
Okay. In this small percentage of activity that you have seen, there has not been much in the way of any fraudulent activity, any bad actors?
No. You have to remember, if you want to move money out or move your accounts around, there will be a human basically put in the middle of it in that transaction. If that actually happens, that human in the middle will be able to alert if something's not looking right.
Right. I'm just curious if there's been any feedback at all from the regulators on this topic.
I mean, they ask a lot of questions around that. I don't think there's any real alert of risk that we've seen in the industry per se because of that, but that could change. There's a lot of bad things that could go on out there and all that, so you have to be careful. But if we see anything that has risk or fraud or anything involved from that perspective, we'll shut it down as fast as we can.
Okay. Maybe we can shift to the other side of the balance sheet, talk a little bit about loan growth. The loan growth has been solid at M&T, although the mix has varied across categories. As you look into 2027, where do you see the strongest opportunities to deploy capital at attractive risk-adjusted returns?
Yeah. We've had really good loan growth this year. Second quarter was probably our best quarter in a while. Third quarter was as good as well. It was pretty broad-based across all of our portfolios that we have. If you look at it, our CRE has now grown two quarters in a row after shrinking for several years on that. Even with a higher rate environment, we still feel confident that we're going to be able to grow CRE in 2027. When you look at that portfolio, we've been funding a lot of construction loans over the last couple years. Those are still funding out in the marketplace. When you look at loans that are maturing, sometimes those customers want to put permanent financing on those buildings, real estate that they have.
If the rate environment's so high, they probably won't like the rates, won't like the finances of doing that. So they'll probably just stay on more of a short-term bridge-type facility, whether that's on balance sheet, until they get rates that are more comfortable for them to do that. I think that's good. I'd say from a C&I perspective, it's a big business for us. It's broad-based. It really starts with our regional C&I middle market business. That has had really nice growth this past year, both in utilizations and in outstandings. So that continues to perform well from that perspective. Our specialty businesses have been growing nicely for the last couple years. For the most part, corporate institutional still growing nicely. Mortgage warehouse obviously is not growing right now with rates being as high as they are.
Fund banking is super competitive, so that portfolio is probably pausing a little bit. We still feel all said together that with our Teaming for Growth initiative that we're doing, Augie, who's on ELT, is basically responsible for all the RMs that we have in the community bank. With his initiative and basically bringing the whole banking services to our customers, we feel confident that we'll be able to grow in that space.
Okay. I mean, as you're having these discussions with the commercial customers, I mean, rates are higher, but it's like when we look at it on a shorter term span, it's not that material. How are they discussing their CapEx and borrowing plans as they look out? At what point do rates really have an impact?
Yeah. I would say there is more questions right now and more pauses from an origination perspective. We are still growing, but it is more at a modest pace. CRE was still growing fourth quarter, but I think some customers are a little bit more cautious. Higher rates does put a pause out there, but the economy is still relatively strong. You still see good employment growth. People are still working. People are still spending money. I think it is just more maybe not as active as what it was earlier in the year.
Okay. Going back to the commercial real estate and refinancing it to the agencies, what is that critical interest rate where you see a lot leave the balance sheet versus staying on the balance sheet?
Broadly speaking, at the level we are at now, we are a little bit under 5% on the 10-year. That tends to not to have a lot of activity in the permanent placement. We still have some, but not as much. When the 10-year treasury rate gets closer to 4% is when that business really starts to activate and really have a lot of people put money out into the term marketplaces. That is kind of the toggle that you see there.
There is always one-offs that could maybe create some transactions out there, but it is relatively rate sensitive from that perspective.
Okay. On the construction side, there is kind of a long lead time in terms of funding up, it sounds like you still have
Usually your equity goes first, then you start drawing down on the lines and all that.
With your pipeline, you have pretty good visibility on
We do
nice runway into 2027?
Yeah. We feel good that our CRE will grow in 2027.
Okay. I'm going to hit one more on credit, and then I'm going to open it up. Credit remains very strong by historical standards. In the third quarter, there was somewhat of an inflection after multiple years of consistent improvement. I guess, how should we think about the credit dynamics from here?
For us, our credit has been performing really well. This quarter, we did have a slight increase in our non-accruals, but we're coming off of a 20-year low, like from 2006. We actually feel that's going to bounce around at the bottom a little bit. It was driven primarily by one credit, a lender finance, and it was basically an issue. It was a leasing business, and the residual values didn't hold on a U.S. manufacturer from that. It was kind of a one-off, but that drove the uptick that you saw in non-accrual. In the criticized book, we still continue to see improvement in the CRE side of that book. That continues to come down nicely, even this past quarter, and we expect that to continue. But from a C&I perspective, we had five leveraged lending credits that basically dipped into criticized in there.
Nothing that we think long term has a lot of loss material with it, but they did go in there. Two of those five were in the franchise business space. That said, we still think our criticized book can stay where it is, maybe continue to come down some as well from that perspective. We feel pretty good about credit. Our charge-offs year to date have been coming in lower than expected and planned, and we got a couple more months left to go, but feel pretty good what we're seeing from a charge-off perspective. I wouldn't expect any big changes for 2027 from that perspective.
When we think about from a credit perspective, where you may be tightening or pulling in the horns a bit, is it franchise lending, the leveraged lending?
The areas that we're watching with a higher rate environment obviously starts with leveraged lending. We have about $6 billion of leveraged lending exposure in the marketplace. About $1 billion of it is basically owned by private equity. Those are the ones that tend to have more issues when rates rise. From that perspective, they tend to be maybe levered a little bit more than the others from that perspective. So we're watching that very closely. Small businesses, it's big business for us, small business. A lot of small businesses don't have the same resources as larger companies do. As rates rise, we're looking at that portfolio. We have a business credit card that we look at and just monitor very closely. So that's something that we're monitoring closely. Franchises, a one-off there. Trucking, we're looking at.
Anything that could have impact on changes in the economy from that perspective. But so far, our credit team hasn't really found anything outstanding that would cause any alert or harm that we would see.
Okay. Thanks. Why don't we open it up to questions? Do we have the mic? We'll start with Mike, if you want to.
Hey, Daryl. What are your views about branch density in terms of opening a lot of new branches? I don't think you've opened as many as some peers, and you haven't done that deal we were expecting you to do for the last few years. Buy or build, and how much? Thank you.
Yeah. No. We definitely believe in density in our retail system. We definitely want to continue to shoot for being top three. Could you move so I could. Top three market share in the markets that we serve. We open just a handful of branches for the most part. When we look at it, our earn back isn't as attractive as what maybe others have from that perspective. We're looking at, can we put more business and services into the branches to make them more revenue-generating and all that? And we're experimenting in a couple branches we just opened up now, where it's not just consumer and business banking, but adding mortgage and wealth and all those other pieces. That said, it might work in certain spots, probably won't work in all the markets that we serve.
But we're pretty disciplined, making sure we get a decent earn back on the capital we deploy.
And the buy?
All I can tell you is, we continue to be open for anybody that wants to partner with M&T from that perspective. Our strategy really hasn't changed. We want to continue to grow and get scale and density in the 13 states that we operate in, and that's really what we're focused on, and we'll see when that happens.
Scott?
I think, I guess just sort of a follow-up on that one. Just given especially the election results yesterday, I think there's this sort of this narrative or concern that this regulatory window of being accommodative to M&A is closing. Does that in particular sort of up your sense of urgency? Then you guys are always talking to people. Is your perception that potential partners, does this increase their sense of urgency to do something?
Yeah. When we say we were talking to people, when we talk to people, we usually aren't talking about M&A, we're talking about business deal. It's very rare we have talks about any M&A, to be honest with you. But what we're seeing right now is that we believe we can do deals in any administration. If you remember the People's deal, we did it under the Biden administration. So for M&T to do acquisitions, it doesn't have to be in this administration, it could be in other administrations. So we're open when it's the right thing for us as well as the other person on the other side from that. So we don't have a sense of urgency. Maybe some others might from that perspective, but we feel comfortable we can do deals in both environments and just how we do it.
Hey, Ryan Kenny with Morgan Stanley. We talked about density is really important to M&T's strategy. Can you just give a history lesson of why density is so important for M&T, how it's an advantage to you? Why not go outside of your current footprint? Then within your footprint, are there any specific markets where you're looking to increase density?
Yeah. I'll answer your last question first. You can look on the FDIC data. Anywhere where we operate today and we aren't in top 3, that would be a market that we would consider trying to go into from that perspective. As far as density goes, we want to have density and scale in the markets we serve. It gives us the ability to have We know the customers, so it gives us I mean, one of the reasons we have a really good credit history is because the customers who we lend money to, and knowing the right customers in the right markets is really critical for us. Having everything in a tight environment, like we're packed together in our 13 states with the density that we have, we believe that actually lowers our expenses and scale so we can operate more efficiently from that perspective.
It just feels us, we're more focused on growing the communities and we can have more of a bigger impact because of our whole scale and density with what we have. We use our foundation to make investments there. That's really what we want. We don't want to be spread across the U.S. and have a lot of different areas. We really want to have more scale and density in where we have. Over time, that may grow out of the 13 states, but right now, we're focused on trying to get scale in those markets.
Just as a follow-up, you also mentioned operating accounts as being a key differentiator and focus area for M&T. As you grow, are there any tech investments that you need to really lean into or businesses like treasury management where investments need to accelerate to continue winning operating accounts as the environment becomes more competitive?
Yeah. I've only been at M&T since June of 2023, but we've given The way we do a capital allocation process, everybody starts with what they have and then we reallocate certain capital. Treasury management has gotten additional capital every year since I've been there, and we'll continue to do that. It is really important that we continue to have top-notch treasury management capabilities to serve our customers. We probably aren't the best for international-type customers, but middle market core customers, small businesses, we want to be best in breed in that capability because that is core to who we are and how we operate.
Thanks.
There's one behind you.
Hi. Brent Aarons of Backbencher here. Thanks for my question. You were at U.S. Bank and Trust Company in their glory days. U.S. Bank until they hit the skids in duration management, and then at Truist, when they did the MOE, proving that they don't work. What does that say about the future of M&T Bank?
M&T has a really strong strategy, really strong performance over a long period of time. I think M&T's future is bright and will continue to be very successful. We will grow both organically, is really what our strategies are. We've made a fair amount of changes in our management structure in the last couple of months to actually accelerate a lot of that growth. Peter D'Arcy is now responsible not just for the commercial bank, but also Wilmington Trust. Putting those businesses together to get more scale and more cross-selling in there is something really efficient. Mike Wisler and Rich McCarthy are really remaking how we do our operations and processes. We are really changing how M&T goes to work and business and becoming a lot more efficient. If you look at it, our headcount's down 1,000 FTEs. We did it quietly just by how we're making more efficiency.
We're going to continue to drive that. We believe as we continue to invest and remake M&T, best in breed from that perspective, we will continue to survive and grow and prosper.
Okay. I'll switch back to me for a couple. You've talked about AI helping M&T automate, augment, and reinvent work across the bank, and it's included in one of those initiatives that you opened up with. When should investors begin to see those benefits become financially tangible, and should we think about it primarily as an efficiency opportunity, a growth opportunity, a scalability opportunity, or all of the above?
Yeah, I think it's all the above. When you're remaking how a department actually performs and does its operations, it's a major overhaul, and we're basically having less people do it when a finished product's done. You go through, you map the processes, and then you build processes more automated using AI and actually make it more automated. We use managed services to help with that as well, so we're being more flexible from that perspective. All those tools in the tool chest are there, and we're going from group to group and actually changing how we go to market and how we perform our structure from that. I think all that is performing really well. We have savings that we have there that helps. You've seen an improvement in our efficiency ratio, and I know that's a function of revenue and expense.
We also have a lot of investments that we're making. A lot of our investments a few years ago were more focused on resiliency, like putting the new financial systems up into the cloud or putting in the new data centers. Now we're looking to digitize our corporate trust function. We're looking to grow, add more scale and capability to our capital markets areas. All that is trying to get closer to the customer, closer to serve them, and increase that. So, there's a lot of investments we want to make. One of the questions I get a lot is our return on tangible common equity. It's a 17% threshold. The board made it 17%. They didn't want us to stretch for something more than that because they thought that'd be too risky.
But at 17%, that's what we as a leadership team get our highest payout from that perspective. So, anything over 17%, we would probably redeploy back into the company and actually make more investments so we can assure that we can maintain that 17% longer over a long period of time and not get greedy and shoot for 20% or something like that. So, that's where our mindset is. It's on the long-term view of how we want to operate this company, but consistently be a long top quartile performer.
Right. So, as you think about that 17%, though, to your point, if the efficacy is there, if AI does what you think it should we expect that in the proxy, the bar is going to be raised for the management payout and-
Yeah.
Just a higher threshold? And what does that look like in your view?
René and I and others, we talk a lot about what AI is going to do to our industry and to the world and all that, and we're really focused on trying to get people to adopt it, use it, learn how to use it, and we don't want to wake up one day where other people are ahead of us in how we're using and deploying AI. It could be a game changer on how banks function and work from an expense perspective from that. It could be something to help deliver and get more products and services out there. We don't really know all the capabilities. We know that it's a tool out there we need to be really good and learn how to use and use it to help us support and drive our customers and communities be financially successful.
Okay. Thanks. I am going to one more time. Are there any other questions from the audience? Let us kind of, as we are winding down here, talk about capital. By most measures of capital, M&T is in a better relative position than the industry. Just curious how you are thinking about. You have been aggressive with the share repurchase over the past couple years, but your capital level still is elevated, and you generate a lot of capital. We have Basel III endgame, knock on wood, coming in December, which will be a tailwind. How are you thinking about it, capital management from here? Maybe you can comment on, is there a reason why M&T, with your business model, your historical performance, should run with a higher capital level than peers?
Yeah. We start with the mindset that we want to be the bank that can support customers and communities in good times and in stress times, and we want to be there in stress times for the people that really need it, that are loyal to us from that perspective. So that by starting point says we are going to run our balance sheet, run our company maybe a little bit more conservative from that perspective, but still generate top quartile returns. So we start from that framework. As far as how much we can go, ideally, in a perfect world, we would like to operate a company in good times at about a 7.5% tangible common equity number. We think that is the right number to operate, and that would include AOCI and all that, Mark, from that perspective.
So it is fully loaded. We think that is the right number to operate. I know there is others that want to go lower than that and all that. That is fine, but we think at that level, we can produce 17% ROTCE and still have capital to deploy into the businesses and support the communities and customers. That is kind of what we believe is the right balance that we have.
Okay. There has been some noise from the rating agencies about these capital levels and the proposal out there. Any thoughts you can share on what you think their view is?
Their view is valid in that, if all of a sudden your Tier 1 or your CET1 ratio goes from 10 to 11, you get 100 basis point benefit there, you have less capital if you start using it up. From that perspective, it is credit negative from that. Are you weighting the risk weights correctly? They have to be concerned about how they are doing the ratings throughout the whole world. I do not really know the risk ratings and how that is done throughout the whole world from that perspective. They are balanced as well, I think to us, we would expect that they would allow us to maybe use some of that capital to come down, but maybe keep some of it.
To be honest with you, where we are today, it is probably use 30 to 50 basis points of the benefit that we have, then probably just run with a higher CET1 ratio is probably what I would expect from that going forward, but be targeted at the tangible 7.5-
Okay
That we have there. Other people might want to try to use it all up, but we think 7.5 is the right number for us. It is not just running the company, it is how we make loans and we look at returns, and we look at M&A transactions you guys ask about. We use 7.5 from that perspective. That is how we make our decisions, tangible capital is really the real capital, that is really how we make decisions from a financial perspective as we move forward with investments and other things that we do.
Okay. Great. That is time. Just quickly, there is lunch out. I think it is available now, but please join me in thanking Daryl from M&T. Thank you.