Okay, let's get it going. Up next we have Primoris, Anthony Vorderbruggen. He is the head of renewables at the company. We also have Blake Hutchkin.
Holcomb.
Holcomb, sorry, Holcomb with the VP of IR, and Travis Anderson.
Stricker.
Stricker.
It's early.
It's early.
He got my name right.
I believe that. They don't help me with the names here. Travis Stricker, I just met him yesterday, Chief Accounting Officer. All right, let's get it going. We'll just kick it off with renewables first. Anthony, you know, your business has grown tremendously. Last quarter, you guys had a 2x book-to-bill. You know, I think there were a bunch of pull-forward of projects for 2025. What is the outlook for 2026? Do you think? Do you see growth there, or do you think it's more flattish given the strong 2025?
Yeah, I would say, you know, when we look at 2026 compared to 2025 revenue numbers, they're gonna be flat to slightly down. Booking opportunities are really, really strong. Seeing a lot of interest on, you know, Q4. Obviously, there was a lot of signings. You know, we don't count backlog until the contract is signed. We're getting verbal awards here in Q1 that'll be contracted in Q2, Q3, and some even as late as Q4. We have open commitments, open LNTPs for contracts that'll be signing in late Q2, Q3, so our bookings will be more back half loaded, but starting to ramp up here in Q2 with actual full EPC signings, even though we're signing LNTPs along the way.
Okay. Got it. We've heard a lot about this tax equity challenge out there. Certain banks are pausing activities on the Section 48E ITCs, and that's causing a little bit of heartburn out there. Your business is very long lead, right? As a result, there's, I think, more time to pivot. Just curious if you're hearing about these kinda challenges with some of your customers, and if not, maybe that's good. Just wanna check in with you on that topic.
Yeah, great question. From our customers, we have not had any indication of pauses in signings related to 48. We've got one contract we executed last year for a battery storage project that'll have 48 applied to it. Working through what the exact administrative burden's gonna have to be for the owner, but you know, we believe we've got a path with them. You know, the big thing is getting alignment with your owner partner with what your approach is to make sure they're satisfied and be able to close the project out. For us, the intricacies of getting it done, we're looking at a variety of things relative to how we satisfy those requirements through the early engineering process and things like that. To your point, right?
You do have quite a long life cycle and doing pre-construction to ensure you're solving for that.
Okay. Got it. Typically, the way I think EPCs work with their customers is they sign an LNTP, so limited notice to proceed. That starts the contract. The EPC works for 3-6 months to assess soil conditions and do more engineering to really refine the bid. They get to the final bid, and they secure the financing, and they sign what's known as financial NTP, also more simplistically just NTP, so notice to proceed. That's kind of the typical life cycle before construction. Coming back to the tax equity question I was asking earlier, if there is this little pause, right? What we might see is a delay from LNTP to NTP, right? Where-
That's correct. Yeah.
It's-
We would see a longer duration, typically from verbal award until you sign your contract. It's right around 8 months, depending on the complexity of the project and the needs of the client relative to financing. That may stretch out a little bit.
Yeah.
Potentially. I believe, you know, you will still see us going to LNTP around engineering to solve, you know, essentially solve for the puzzle that could be 48 around how you fit in the modules and other domestic content requirements-
Right.
-within the individual inverter block.
As I think through the tax equity issues, where you know if we were to see this impact the utility-scale solar volumes, the metric to follow would be is the time from LNTP to NTP extending? Anthony just kinda highlighted that it's eight months. If it starts to kinda push out more, then that's something that, for me as an analyst, would be a little bit concerning for the industry because that would suggest maybe a slowdown for 2027, 2028. For now, I don't see that happening. I've talked to multiple EPCs, but I'm just trying to help you guys understand how to think about it. Am I missing anything there?
Nope, that's accurate. I mean, we have full confidence. You know, if anything, it'll be a little push potentially to the right.
Yeah.
Not a cancellation or suspension of projects is not what we're seeing. It's not what we're hearing. If anything, I think as we solve for exactly how we make this work, depending on the components, 'cause typically, owners will bring the modules to the mix. We buy everything else. As they bring the module bin classes in and different manufacturers, as they attempt to solve for domestic content, as we solve that puzzle, we may in fact, if it pushes to the right, we might be able to pull it back to the left if we come up with a solution in a timely manner.
Great. Okay. Thank you. Now we're talking about ITC extension. You know, there's potential for, you know, bills to come out if we get a mixed Congress.
Something new every day.
You know, Anthony has been living the solar coaster for how many decades?
It's a little over a decade now.
Yeah. Okay. It, you know, it's a ride, and so we're now being whiplashed the other way. It probably does not impact your business day to day, but do you have any views on this ITC extension, how it might ripple through the industry?
Not yet. It's still pretty fresh, right? I mean, it's you know, kinda like I said, it's something new every day. So, still kinda getting our head around what that could look like. You know, there's a couple of election cycles before the ITC sunsets anyways, and I think everybody's gotta take a deep breath and consider that instead of saying, "Hey, it's gonna be a big cliff out there." You know, we just don't have visibility to projects out into 2029 and 2030 'cause that's even when things were rocking and rolling, you didn't have that kind of visibility. But I would say for sure, 2026, 2027, 2028, like bookings, the opportunities are really large.
Okay. Just for the audience here, can you just remind everybody how many GW did you guys do in 2025 from an EPC standpoint?
We completed roughly 4 GW of solar EPC and right around 2 GWh of batteries. In 2024, roughly the same, 4 GW of solar, but our battery storage was very, very small back then. We did maybe 500 MWh or so.
Just for perspective, that gives, or two years ago, I think that placed Primoris as the number one player according to Solar Power World, right?
We were number two.
And now-
Yeah, we were number two.
You were number two?
Yeah, we were number two. We weren't number one.
Okay. You were number two.
We were close.
You were close. I mean, that, I remember you guys as number one.
Thanks, Phil.
Now, you know, maybe top three. I mean, 4 GW is a lot, and so that compares to an industry size for utility scale solar of about 40 GW, so that, they're 10% of the market. You know? They move things. This year you're gonna be flattish, because-
Yeah.
Just explain why to the audience.
Yeah. Yeah, we'll be flattish. You know, we had a really big pull forward in 2025. We had work that was booked. We had two projects specifically, well, technically it was four, but it was two projects with two phases gonna be built sequentially. The developer came to us and asked, "Hey, can we accelerate those? Can we build them concurrently?" That pulled about $500 million worth of work, both battery and solar, into 2025. We had to ramp up resources relatively, so it wasn't necessarily more execution teams, it was just bigger.
It really swelled our revenue as we maintain number of execution teams. It allows us to go into 2026 with strong, experienced teams to execute on probably a little bit less revenue wise, but still the quantity of projects is pretty gonna be pretty similar.
Okay. Great. Maybe, let's walk through some of the, if you don't mind, tracker dynamics. When you look, when you think about your tracker mix, there are some big players out there. Who are some of the bigger players top down?
Tier one, obviously, you know, you've got your Nextracker, Array, GameChange.
In your mix, like who?
Yeah, in-
Who's your number one in your mix?
Just what I gave you.
Okay.
Yeah.
Great.
Top tier right now is Nextracker.
Yeah.
I still call 'em Nextracker. I've known 'em for a long time.
I know. It's hard for me too.
It is difficult. I think some of it I do it just to poke the bear, poke Dan a little bit. You know, they offer really good service, competitive pricing, got a long-standing relationship there. Array also, you know, really long-standing relationship. You know, they're a strong player. GameChange, you know, they're private, but a good organization, responsive, good service. You know, there's some others that are trying to step into there, but really those are the big three.
Do they have potential to do that? Do you have anybody else on your AVL?
Yeah.
Like, what is your AVL?
We do. We have PVHardware as well. We have Next-
Okay
- Nextpower, Array, GameChange.
Yeah. Yeah.
We've used Nevados. We have PVHardware.
Yeah.
Those are our primaries on our AVL.
Okay. Nevados, PVHardware. Well, okay. There are more questions I wanna ask, but we'll save them.
That's okay.
Okay.
That's what we're here for.
From an eBOS standpoint, you guys have your own eBOS system.
Yes.
And so-
Three years ago.
Yeah.
We developed organically, Premier PV eBOS provider. Started with disconnects.
Just for those in the audience who don't know this, it's the cabling that connects all the modules.
DC collection system, so everything connects the modules together back to a large 400-500 amp disconnect switch.
Shoals is the big player out there that people talk about.
Yes.
These guys have their own solution, so it's. I don't think you use any more Shoals, right?
We've used them here or there on certain projects.
Just on a go-forward basis, you're not very motivated.
Yeah, customer request, unique. You know, we'll still use them. We've still got a relationship there.
Do you support or do you serve 100% of your projects that you build with your own eBOS?
Yes. We provide support to our own projects, and then we're also supplying to third party EPCs, other EPCs as well, other tier ones.
Yeah.
That product mix is typically around about 20% out of our manufacturing facility will go to of our sales go to other tier one EPCs, and this year we're at 30%-45%. We're gaining more traction as we get more and more well known.
Their manufacturing capacity, that suggests maybe like 6, 5-ish GW?
We've got roughly 1.5 GW of harnessing capacity currently in our Crossett facility, and that's gonna ramp up to additional 4.5 GW with a $30 million investment in the Dallas-Fort Worth area in a manufacturing facility, 276,000 sq ft. That's already started, and it'll be coming online Q4 of 2026 and then throughout 2027.
How much are you gonna spend in CapEx for that?
That'll be $30 million.
$30 million. Sorry if I missed that.
Yeah, $30 million investment. Yeah.
Uh-
Travis was gracious enough to open up the checkbook. Thanks, man.
Okay, good. You know, Dan Shugar, I gotta imagine, is trying to sell you guys NX PowerMerge, or does he know not to even try?
Yeah. I'll just say yeah.
Okay.
I got a great relationship with Dan.
I'm sure you do.
It's all good.
But, but he, uh-
He understands my position.
Yes. He has his position, you have yours. You just leave it there. Okay. Good. That's the renewables business. Any questions out there on renewables?
Yeah.
Batteries? Yeah, what kind? How much?
Yeah, yeah.
Go ahead.
We just talked a little about battery storage. In 2024, we had one active and completed battery project. In 2025, we built eight, so you know, big ramp-up there. We see a lot more opportunity, going into 2026 and 2027, 2028. The battery storage market is. It's just continues to grow, and so capturing additional market share there, I think, is gonna be an internal growth opportunity. The numbers aren't obviously as large as solar, 'cause solar, you know. Our projects, our average size of projects has went up, demonstrably 2024 to 2025, and we can see that. The demand for large projects continues to grow. We have tier one IPPs coming to us, looking for us to build really large projects.
One big, bigger picture question. On what basis do you win business, you think? 'Cause you started this business basically from zero, organically, and then you guys grew to basically be top three in the country. What's your value prop and how? Like, is it price? Is it quality? Or is it just execution? How would you position that?
All the above. Starts with safety, right? Your foundation is your safety of your people. Your clients want that, right? They wanna know that people are gonna be safe. They don't have, you know, a black eye getting their project built. You know, we have a great TRIR. You know, our man hours continue to go up. We've worked a little over 9 million man hours last year with a 0.3 TRIR, which is really, really good in the industry. Great relationships with the clients, great relationships with the local communities. It's important that we build that because after we leave, their power plant is still there and we can't give them a black eye, so that's important to them.
Quality, of course, price, maintaining schedule, you know, with the challenges that Mother Nature throws at us all as you go into different geographic areas, it, you know, it can get really challenging, but, you know, at the end of the day, you gotta finish on time, I think. We're able to bring with our sister companies, bring in the high voltage, so we'll wrap our high voltage work. We bring our pipeline group in. They do pre-drill work for us. Future Infrastructure does boring for us. We bring all these other things to the mix that are sister companies. They're not truly third-party subcontractors. They're known entities under the Primoris umbrella of companies, all backed by our balance sheet.
You know, it really does make it a good choice for the customers. Blake likes to say, "One hand to shake." You know, I used to say, "One throat to choke.
Yeah.
Blake's educated me how to be a little more refined.
Yeah. No, that's a good one.
Thanks, man.
First time I've heard that. I should become more refined too. You know, Anthony, we've spent a lot of time on renewables, but Primoris is a big business in general, in many other segments as well. You know, whether it's gas or high voltage transmission or comms or. Let's kind of move on to that. If people have any questions out there. John?
Yeah.
Hang on. Eva can get you a microphone.
You say you're doing a fair amount of battery business. It sounds like it's very often in conjunction with solar panels. There are a lot of batteries going in elsewhere. Are you getting much of that business?
Yes. 30% of our market, our execution last year was standalone storage.
Okay.
Yeah. We're getting real good traction there. A lot of different markets everywhere from, you know, California to Arizona, into ERCOT, and then we've even done some up in Indiana.
Separately, can you talk about people? Do you have a lot of apprenticeship programs? How do you keep your people? That's gonna be more and more of a problem.
Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, that's no secret in this industry, right? We try really hard to create a good working environment for our people. We want our training programs not just to check a box for IRA compliance around apprenticeship training. We're trying to make it meaningful, that they actually feel like they're building a career. We're investing substantially into training for our construction management resources as well. You know, we really need those folks to move around the country with us, and we try to keep our project teams and our directors of operations tied to specific clients, so the client experience remains the same from project to project. It's really important for our clients. It's really important for us.
Okay. Great. Let's move on. On your last earnings call, I think you guys talked about 26 strategic priorities focused on enhancing execution through better estimating, project controls, change management to drive predictable margins and growth. Can you give us a little more color on that, specifically on margins? Like, this year, what kind of potential upside can there be to margins as you guys implement some of these new things? Blake?
Blake?
You're talking- You're talking total company.
Yeah. Total company. Yeah.
Well, I'll give a little. You know, renewables is a very big part of our business. It's about 40% of our total revenue and also a very nice margin contributor. Another 25% of our business is T&D work. Power utilities, high voltage work, transmission substation, distribution work. We've got another probably $480 million of natural gas generation and from 2025 revenue. We also have a communications business that's about $400 million. A gas utility business that's about $1 billion.
A midstream pipeline business and a heavy civil business that are around $900 million combined there. Certainly part of our strategy is to continue to grow, you know, as renewable source has a flattish year from a really big acceleration of work last year. You know, the opportunities around natural gas, power generation in particular, simple cycle and even potentially some combined cycle, we see quite a bit of tailwinds around that business that's both margin accretive as well as provides a lot of revenue growth. On the midstream pipeline side, as you need to move the gas to power these facilities, you know, we're seeing a lot of opportunity.
Our funnel of opportunity on the natural gas generation side right now sits around $6 billion, and probably $1.5 billion-$2 billion just in the first half of this year of bookings opportunities we're gonna be evaluating. You know, that type of work, like renewables, can be very accretive margin, so that's part of the strategy there. As it's getting more efficient on our power delivery side, where we see a lot of opportunity to continue to expand from kind of the lower voltage distribution to more of the transmission substation, which is a little bit higher margin, also improves our productivity.
Geographically focused, kind of in, you know, from California all the way up to kind of the D.C. Virginia area on the electric utility side, where we see a lot of our customers' CapEx budgets really, next five years, 50% higher than they were the previous five years. Our customers want us in that business. There's a lot of opportunity there. Those businesses, the growth both in pipeline, natural gas generation, as well as some improvement in the profitability of power delivery, are all part of that margin driver.
Thanks, Blake. Can you talk to us about the kind of the shadow backlog? 'Cause is your pipeline business kind of very quick book and build? You know, you gave some numbers there, but like.
Yeah.
Tell us more about how much that might be and how that could convert.
Yeah, that's typically true. Oftentimes by the time it gets to the contracting phase for the construction side, you know, you may be awarded and mobilized within 45-60 days and burning revenue on that. You know, we think there's opportunity to probably go from $325 million in that business to maybe $450 million this year, with just winning a couple contracts that if you book it this quarter, you may be burning revenue in May, and 6-9 months later it could be completed with that project. Could be a $150 million project. You know, our...
To what degree do you think you might be conservative with that potential kind of upside there?
Yeah.
I sense that, you know, with prices where they are now.
Yeah.
What's, you know, it seems like there's a lot of demand for that. Then ultimately, what is the bottleneck that's the great limiting factor?
Yeah, there is. I mean, our funneled opportunity in that business went from about $1 billion a year to $3 billion just in the last probably 12 months. We're even having some customers come to us to secure capacity for 2027. Like I said, typically you work, mobilize quickly, but some customers are even trying to procure our capacity for work that will begin in 2027. I do think 2027 is probably a larger growth year, but just given the size of opportunities, I mean, the things that, you know, they need to get before they get to the construction phase is they need the permitting, they need the right of ways, they need the materials, they need the engineering, then they can come to us for the construction.
From FID to when we construct, there's still a good period of time there. But yeah, we're really optimistic about the opportunities ahead of us and the chance to win work there and have a nice contribution. Like I mentioned on that natural gas generation side, with $1.5 billion-$2 billion of potential bookings in the first half of this year, that's another area we could see, you know, $150 million- $200 million of revenue growth this year.
Yeah. What's the margin profile of that natural gas generation business?
Yeah. Typically our, you know, bid margins are kind of in that 10%-12% range, maybe at the upper end there. Hopefully with good execution, good scheduling, good estimating, our realized margins can be, you know, north of that.
Right.
That's where our.
In solar, my understanding, like contingencies are 2%-3%. If you kind of bid like 15%, then it can. If everything goes well, weather's good, it could be 17%-18%. In nat gas, I know it varies, you know, with every project and customer and risk profile, but is there kind of a rule of thumb for nat gas kind of margin contingency? Is it like that's kind of 2%-3% in the range or is it more like 1%-2%?
Yeah, I think it's fairly similar.
Okay. Got it. Great. Thanks, Travis. This is gross margin that we're talking about. 10%-12% is kind of the bid margin, but with that 2%-3% upside. Pipeline's maybe like 15% with 2%-3% contingency?
I mean, I think we would still say it's probably in that 10-12 range, but certainly you know, we've performed both with contingency and just better execution. You go back and look at our pipeline segment when it was its own segment, you know, 4 or 5 years ago, yeah, we were certainly getting in the, you know, mid- to high teens in some years.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Just checking in with Anthony again. Do you bid with gross margins in that 10%-12% as well?
Yeah.
Okay.
Depending on bigger projects, your gross margin will be just a little bit less, your smaller projects a little stronger.
Yeah. Yeah, 'cause, you know, SOLV is now public, right? SOLV Energy.
Yeah. Yep.
Have you looked at their financials?
Yes.
And so-
I walked through their earnings transcript.
Yeah. I mean.
All-
They're bringing-
Yeah
gross margins of like 17%-18%, so.
That, that's performance.
Yeah.
I think one of the things that was interesting as I looked at that is they had a fair amount. It almost looked like remediation work.
Yeah
... um, which they did-
Maybe the hail work.
Which they did. Yeah, the hail work, which they did address is really boosting margins. I would say back in 2023, 2024, we had some of those type of projects-
Okay.
-which really boosted our margins back then.
Okay. Just for perspective, hail damage in Texas, I think in 2025, gave SOLV a lot of revenue and then more margin there because doing the repairs of those modules in the field. Okay. In the time that we have, which is limited, I wanna come back to the rest of the business. You guys do everything to the data center shell, right? You don't build a shell. MasTec recently started to talk about being the GC for the entire project. Do you see potential to do that at some point? Because you do everything else outside. And if not, why not? Could it be driven by acquisition at some point where you kinda buy that opportunity or buy that capability?
Yeah, look, I think as part of our M&A strategy, certainly getting inside the facility of the data center is something that we are strongly looking at. I mean, it's part of our. It's probably one-A and one-B between, you know, mechanical, industrial or electrical, commercial and industrial applications, which would not just be for data centers, but also our natural gas generation projects, other advanced manufacturing facilities. There's a lot of applications that go across our businesses for interior electrical work, and so that's something. I would say, you know, kind of one-A and one or one-B would be, you know, gaining size and scope and scale on the T&D side is still a top priority for us. We've got a nice franchise there. We've got great customers, good people.
Continue to advance ourselves in kind of the substation transmission side where we see kind of a little bit higher growth rate is also a top priority.
Great. Okay. Hey, let's wrap it up here. Anthony, Blake, Travis, thank you very much. Look forward to following the story. Very exciting. Thanks.
Thanks, Phil.