Nice warm New York City. But, it is what it is. I guess for those less familiar, how about an overview of Thryv? Kinda what you do, what the products you sell.
Yeah. It's, it's a small business software application. Basically, the way they run their, their business. In the morning, they open up their application, and they look at their schedule for the day, scroll through, and look at their 10:00 A.M. appointment. Click on the client card, it opens up. It's got the details of-
Mm
... what the customer bought last time, what their needs are this time, which one of our agents is handling it. It's all right there, very simple. And it can handle the estimates, invoices, billing, and all that on the back end, and it also allows you to communicate with your customers and share documents and information.
We're gonna start with product. It's usually my favorite area to talk about. We're only gonna talk about one question on the legacy business, and the rest is gonna be on what's exciting and going forward.
Yeah.
But I, I get the question 'cause it's very topical. It's a large chunk of your revenues today is Yellow Pages business. I think most investors I talk to are surprised that it's still around, that there's this misconception that everything's online. But where does that product today kind of still sell and market effectively? Where are you really kind of generating, you know, a strong revenue stream from that? And I'm sure we all know it's probably going to zero over time, but that decay is a lot slower than what people think as well.
It is, yeah. It's been in a gradual demographic decline now for the better part of two decades. And it's still... Yellow Pages, believe it or not, are still used in a lot of the flyover places. You know, Manhattan, Kansas, not Manhattan, New York, or Rapid City, South Dakota. There's still strong Yellow Pages usage out there. So it is declining, and it's a business that we're working over time to get out of, basically. Our model is to work our way out of it. When you look at our Marketing Services business, the printed Yellow Pages is actually not that big of a piece of it.
So much of it is online directories, not just our own, but a big web and a network of, you know, products like Nextdoor or Yelp or, you know, other things that are in our online networks. We do search engine marketing, we do SEO, we do websites. So these are businesses that are fundamentally good businesses. It's just not the direction that we're going in. We're building a cloud software business, and we're using that business as basically a source of cash. So we're not working to grow the Marketing Services. We're actually looking to grow our SaaS business.
Yeah. So you have the two pieces of the platform as, as you mentioned, and you're slowly migrating customers over. You had a nice bump in the last quarter that we'll talk about, a little bit more here in, in a minute. But do you think you have the modules and the functionality in the SaaS platform today to properly replace what the customers have been getting out of the Yellow Pages side?
That's such a good question, because the first seven or eight years of our journey, we're really building a CRM, and a CRM helps you run your business. It's an operate your business tool. And the reason that you bought in all the Marketing Services products was to get more customers.
Mm-hmm.
It wasn't to operate your business. So we had to find people who had been out to get more customers, and we had to help them, you know, move over to running your business. So it was quite a change that we were asking for. Our newer centers, most recently, Marketing Center, is really a grow your business center. And, you know, Command Center is all about really the inbox and communicating with your customers. It's very close also. So I feel like, part of the reason you're seeing so much better penetration into our base is the products that we're selling now are more grow your business products, and so the traction within the base is much better.
I guess a big question in that is how do you get those Marketing Services customers over the chasm, if you want to call it that, to purchase these solutions? Some of them are mom-and-pop stores, local businesses. You know, they might have been using the Yellow Pages for 30 or 40, you know, years or whatnot, but how do you kind of push them over that edge?
Well, the point you make is a good one, and that's that, you know, we've been around a long time, and we have deep relationships with these small businesses. Most of them have been with us for more than 15 years, so there's a long, trusted relationship. So we're just helping them with the next problem, the next opportunity with their, you know, with their business. We get a conversation every year because we have that trusted relationship where we're in there talking to them all the time. We're asking them about how it is they're modernizing their business, how they're meeting their customers', you know, needs and demands. And most recently, what we found is these kind of grow your business tools are right down Broadway for them. It's a real easy thing for them to transition. That's part of why you're seeing such an uptick now.
Yeah. You know, you've... If you look at the last two years, the last 18 months specifically, you've released two new centers. You mentioned Marketing Center and Business Center there. Is... You know, you, you've, and you've taken the, the approach of weaving the data in there, which I think is, and, and to build off of each other, which is super important. But you sell to a micro customer, companies that have two to 25, maybe 50 employees in a really large one, plus or minus. How do you think about the balance of adding more modules and functionality for a customer segment that doesn't always buy really deep software? You know, what does that balance look like over time?
I think you have to back up and think about where we are in the world. We saw during the last decade, we saw enterprises, big companies, move their computing into the cloud, and we saw small businesses do nothing. They basically stayed analog. They stayed with spreadsheets. They stayed with email. They started texting, woo-hoo, to their customers, but they really weren't harnessing cloud tools. Now, we are seeing it... We're probably in the third inning now of this thing really beginning to unfold, and we feel like the marketplace of January 2024 is light years different than the marketplace, say, of 2020.
Mm-hmm.
You know, it's just moving so much faster. They're actually, they know about the cloud, they're interested in it. So in some cases, they've experimented with some point solutions, and the uptake and the demand is really coming on now, and we think that the balance of this decade will be really big-
Mm
... for adoption of cloud tools. And so we're just getting a lot more traction now. We're seeing it unfold that way.
Do you think the pandemic helped with that? It drove more people just to naturally be online and have more activities online. Do you think that impacted the mindset of some of your customers in saying, "Hey, everyone's doing this. I need to find a way to probably capture this opportunity"?
Yes. Yeah, I think that we saw it, right, in e-commerce sales. E-commerce leapt up, obviously, when the pandemic started. We've seen it with, you know, Zoom adoption and other things like that, and then we saw a hangover when people were able to get back out. We saw those things pull back.
Mm-hmm.
But I think after settling, they're now chugging ahead again, and I think it was somewhat similar for small business adoption. I think it was shoved forward, and then there was probably a breath-
Mm-hmm
... and now I think it's picked up because consumers are demanding it. Consumers want to pay digitally. They, they want to be able to adjust their appointment with you at 10:00 P.M. when they remember or something. They wanna be able to communicate, not necessarily call and leave a message on an answering machine.
Yeah.
So, I think, you know, we're really in the power curve of the adoption. I think Thryv is really well positioned as a way to play this mega trend. I don't know if you realize this, but there's only 500, you know, businesses in the S&P 500. Did you know that?
Well, that's an interesting statement.
Yeah.
I'd never considered that.
The point I'm trying to make is, there's a fairly limited number of really big enterprise-level businesses, but small businesses, there's millions and millions and millions, and it's just so much of a bigger, more imperfect market. It's a lot of work, but we're really well positioned to do it with our giant sales organization, our 100-year history in these local markets. We're in the catbird seat as this mega trend unfolds to capture it, and if you look back at our history, we only had a single center, and really, for the most part, we were selling in a single country. Now, we've got a platform with three centers out, a fourth one about to come out, and we're operating in many countries, adding more countries all the time. So there's scale for us to really begin to grow as we ride the wave of adoption.
It's gonna happen with or without us.
I suppose next, you're gonna tell us there's 1,000 companies in the Fortune 1000?
I could. That could happen.
But it, it's an interesting statement 'cause I did this exercise probably about five or six years ago, and it's a... I think investors get too titillated sometimes on billion-dollar unicorn-type companies 'cause the amount of spend that's there, and there's a lot of spend. I live in Minneapolis, for those that aren't familiar, a suburb of Minneapolis. Drive a mile in a suburb of Minneapolis and count the local businesses that are not national chains. Go downtown and do the same thing, and then come to a large city like New York City and walk a mile and count the number of local businesses. You're flabbergasted at the number of them, so it's a huge market at the end of the day. I agree with you.
Yeah, and so that's our world. That, that world you're talking about, that's our world. And, you know, the hardest problem if you're frankly, anybody can write some software code. The hardest problem is getting a quality conversation with a small business where he's genuinely listening and looking for solutions. We get those just by our birthright because of where we came from. We have just shy of 400,000 small business customers that are our customers, that we meet with and talk to regularly. I feel sorry for other software companies that maybe have nice code, have a good idea, but they can't get anybody to talk to them.
Mm-hmm. Yep. Point of housekeeping, we will take some audience Q&A when we're done if there are questions. Continuing on the product theme, Command Center was your most recent center that was released here over the last several months. I viewed this center as really a communications hub, and you kinda touched on that a little bit already, but to centralize all of your customers' client channels. Is that the right way to describe it? And then, when you think about client channels, how many different client channels can you actually integrate effectively with that center?
A bunch. It's amazing, actually. When you think about even as consumers, each of you, even if you use social media a little bit, you've got a bunch of things you have to check. You know, you're checking your business email, your personal email, you may have a junk email box, right? Then you may have Facebook that you keep up with your family and friends on, and there may be, maybe on Instagram, maybe you have a guilty pleasure, you look at TikTok or whatever. So you end up with four, five, six kind of places to check. So you're waiting in the muffler shop for a few minutes for your car, and you're checking all those places.
Well, think about if you're a small business and those are your actual leads coming in, and customers have an expectation you're gonna respond and get back to them. That's kind of frustrating. People are Facebook messaging you. People are sending you stuff on Instagram. People are emailing you. People are texting you. People are calling you. All these different channels coming in. What Command Center does is it unifies all that into one place, gives you one thing to check, one place to get your notifications, and it syncs up with all those other things all the time. And so it also creates for you a chronological CRM, effectively, of the conversation.
Consumers have a way of contacting you by phone, and then emailing you, and then sending you a text, and then sending you something on Facebook Messenger, all within the space of a day or two, and you're somehow supposed to keep all that straight... and Command Center does that for you, keeps it all straight. What's most exciting about Command Center is it's absolutely free forever. So it allows people to virally spread it around. I can say, "I found this cool way to unify my complicated world and make things simple, and it's free. Here's the link. Download it. Here, let me show it to you." Without any promotion, really just beta and just briefly coming out of beta, we have more than 25,000 downloads of this thing.
Wow!
And that's those are all little baby Thryv customers waiting to be born, that are gonna kinda grow up. And they're already, you know, beginning to self-upgrade, add minutes to the phone, phone capabilities that we give them, add video capability or add minutes to the video capability that we give them. They're paying up to add additional channels beyond just what's available free. They're adding additional, additional elements to it as well. So we think this is gonna be a nice customer acquisition path. Basically, it kinda creates a new zoo.
Yeah. You know, that led actually really well into my next question. I think a key capability or component of Command Center has been the ability to purchase these add-ons. I noticed it when we got the demo of it back in August. I gravitated right towards that. 'Cause when I looked at Marketing Center and Business Center, there wasn't a natural way in my mind to go add on ThryvPay or add on an integration to someone else. You know, there's a lot in there. What have you seen with the results so far? It sounds like you've certainly seen some customers upgrade to some of those, but has it been kind of, you know, in line with your expectations or maybe ahead or behind on how you thought customers would start using it?
It's early, so I don't wanna, you know, project off of a really small data set, but we definitely are seeing self-upgrades. We definitely are seeing movement. I wanna bring this back to a metric. You know, one of the metrics for our business that people look at a lot is what the Net Dollar Retention revenue is. When we first started, we basically were sending an expensive salesman out there to make the entire sale of one center, and there was very minimal add-ons that we had at that early stage. Now that we have, you know, three different centers, and soon a fourth, and then there's add-on elements built in there, we're seeing that Net Dollar Retention really start to get to move. You'll remember in our Analyst Day, we said we expect to be 100%.
Yep.
In the next couple of quarters, we actually drifted down a little bit. People are like: "Wait a minute, I thought you were gonna go up?" But, you know, we're really meaningfully seeing that coming through now, and it does a lot of things. It flatters gross margins, which we're seeing it really, really gather now going forward. And it will introduce some noise into our ARPU, because you'll have a bunch of people coming in at fairly low price points as they self-upgrade, so that'll, that metric will get a little noisy. But what we did was we carved out customers who have been with us a year or longer, and we studied their spend, and their spend is up in the mid-teens year-over-year.
So we're seeing really good follow-through where customers who have been with us for a year or more, buying more, centers, buying more products, and they're driving up. So even if there's a little bit of noise in the overall ARPU, just because of the denominator problem of adding so many at some of which are smaller, we believe that our story of, you know, driving overall ARPU from $4,000-$7,000 over the intermediate period is very much intact.
Well, I've seen this story in this playbook a couple of different times with other public competitors in the marketing space, where they start with a single product, add different-
Mm-hmm
... you know, centers or modules, whatever you want to call it. One might call it a hub. And they're able to drive—you know, some consistent cross-sell opportunity there. And I think the playbook down market has really evolved over the last five or six years. You just got to get them in the door using the product a little bit. If you have a good product and they like it, it's amazing how they just start adding on, because those smaller customers want a one-stop shop. They don't have the resources-
Bingo, you just-
to keep integrating.
What you just said is exactly the deal. They are sick of sticky notes.
Mm-hmm.
Like, if you ever get logged out of something, you're like: "What's the code?" You know, and, "John, what's the... " "Oh, he's not here. Wait, well, you can't- " "I can't get in." "Well, but he'll be- he'll be back in a half an hour." And now I'm logged out. The question we get asked the most is: "Isn't there one place that we could go, where we could have one platform, everybody could be logged into the same thing under one login number, and we can get at all of our tools?" And that's what we've done with Thryv.
We've created a dashboard, and behind that, you can integrate your QuickBooks or your FreshBooks or Melio or Xero or, you know, if you enjoy Mailchimp, you can connect it, and then the data will flow back and forth, and you can get at it through your Thryv. And that's made such a big difference for people.
So you've released the two centers over the last 18 months, the two new ones. Is one a year the right way to think about the cadence here going forward, or is there opportunities to maybe do release more than one a year, or should we think about it maybe being less than a, you know, more than a year for each one?
No, we've guided that we think we'll roll out one new center a year, and we're still comfortable that that's good guidance. And if you are modeling this, and you start layering in any kind of reasonable uptake of that next center, and you don't necessarily have the original customer acquisition cost, but you can see how it really flatters margins and drives ARPU.
Mm-hmm. All right, moving to go-to-markets. I kinda mentioned before, you sell to what I consider to be micro customers, smaller customers. We've seen software demand in this segment be inconsistent for the last four to six quarters, given the macro. Not a surprise, I'm sure, to anyone listening to this, but you know, you had a very good third quarter in terms of customer acquisition, customer acquisitions on the SaaS side of the business, as you leaned into the zoo, as you like to call it, a little bit. That 10,000 level may not be sustainable for a period of time. Obviously, we'll see Q4 coming up relatively soon, but how should we think about that framework? Is this a motion that you're gonna be able to lean into, you know, throughout-...
2024 here, where your customer additions have an opportunity to be above historical trends, because now you have the right product to sell into the Zoom?
Your question is perfect, and the answer is yes. The Marketing Center is getting tremendous traction in that legacy base, and the reason is, the reason they bought the Marketing Services tools was to gain more customers, and that's what Marketing Center does. It helps you gain more customers, it instruments all your marketing. And so it's, it's really a nice fit. And remember, a very high percentage of our Marketing Services customers are buying digital from us anyway, and so they're kind of walking across now. And we're moving them from these older legacy platforms that they were on, which we're really harvesting and not investing that much in. We're moving them to these cutting-edge, you know, really modern tools that that are all singing, all dancing, do a lot more.
So yes, the surge in customer growth that you saw in Q3, you know, I'm not gonna commit to 10,000, but that direction, where you see really big customer acquisition growth in the SaaS side, is what you're gonna see going forward for a while. There's a lot there.
I think in conjunction, because the historical trends, off the top of my head, not looking at my model, you're adding about 2,000 customers net to your SaaS platform, platform on a quarterly basis, spike to 10, so the big jump there, as I mentioned. But the inverse of that is your ARPU on your SaaS customers came down in the quarter. Is that a direct result of those customers coming in maybe at a lower price point to start, and kind of like, like we said before, just get them on, get them paying, and they'll be able to grow that over time, or was there a different dynamic kind of maybe driving the drop in ARPU?
No, you, you've put your finger on it exactly right. That's what it is. It's. As we're moving them over, in some cases, we used, you know, promotional pricing to bring them over, or, you know, sort of grandfathered their rate and then gave them superior services, and then, but there's a lot of scope there to grow that as they get over. And as you said a few minutes ago, once you get them kind of consuming these tools, it's pretty easy to move them on to more, 'cause they kind of, "Well, that worked, let me do the next one." And that's kind of the journey. The way I would ask you to think about it is, if we go back five years, 10 years, all small businesses were virtually all analog.
If we go forward seven, eight, nine years, they will all be completely digital. They will be pushing buttons in their pocket to look at all the aspects of a relationship with a customer. So all those small businesses are someplace on that journey, and our role is to sort of guide, help them along that journey, make it easier for them. Have a fully interoperable, easy to log into, you don't need to be certified, you don't have to go get a certification. If you spend an hour or two, and you're reasonably bright, you can learn this thing. It's not that complicated. And so we're basically helping them along that journey. So what you just described, people that are in our legacy base, they're also somewhere on that journey.
So when we bring them over and land them in these products, we're picking them up and moving along in that journey, and we can expect that they're gonna adopt more and, in fact, spend more over the next few years.
Well, we'll have to get some additional proof points over the next year, and January next year, we'll come back to see if those initial customers are truly indeed adding the modules that you're hoping to get out of it.
Well, I mean, we're seeing it right now in Marketing Center. Marketing Center's been out for a year, and it's really starting to move.
Good. Last question on the product side. I think for the most part, we talked about your U.S. opportunity here. At least that's how I think most investors think about it. But you have a thriving business, pun intended, in Australia from an acquisition there. But what does that opportunity look like? And do you have to change or alter the product at all to help, you know, kind of tackle what you're going after there?
We built the product to be international, so it works in lots of languages, and it has a currency element. You can set your currency and so on. Having said that, even though it's ready to go in every country, there's always a little localization. There's always, you know, a set of regulations or rules around texting or something to do with banking rules. There's always something local that you have to do a little bit of customization, but it's not too bad. We were able to pretty quickly get it set up in Australia. And Australia, there are weeks and months that they're our number one region now.
Mm.
You know, 25 million country. I mean, they're just cranking. It's really going very well there, and then we've now added New Zealand, which is going really well. In Canada, we went in greenfield. We didn't buy anything, and so that's been a really interesting process, and it's going well. You know, it's obviously smaller because we went in with nothing-
Yeah
... and we just started. But, we're pretty excited about that as a potential way to go into new markets. Our, we have an International President, Marie Caron. She's spending day and night building out the detailed plans for how we're gonna conquer lots of other places. So, you know, I think you'll see international be an interesting part of the story over the next couple of years.
Do those international customers look differently than in the U.S. in terms of maybe the size or how they adopt the product and the platform, or is it a very similar type of journey for them?
Same.
It is.
Same.
Good. On the financial side, I've got a couple here, and then we'll open it to audience Q&A. You know, you did note a sort of self-cannibalization a little bit of your Marketing Services revenues, you know, through the sales of your marketing, you know, those customers moving to the Marketing Center product a little bit. We obviously like that strategy, because last time I checked, the SaaS revenues are a more highly valued revenue stream over a period of time. But do those customers making that jump or adding that on accelerate or change the way we think about the rate of decay of that business?
'Cause I can see a scenario where a customer actually on the Marketing Services side also buys a SaaS product, but I can also see a scenario where when they buy this, they kind of run off of that really quick.
It's a well-asked question. I mean, we have always viewed our Marketing Services business as a runoff business. We've always viewed it as a source of cash and a source of customers to build a really big, global, and important SaaS business. So, the fact that we now are getting better traction and moving that along more quickly, we think is a really good thing. We think that's a big plus. The SaaS business is very high margin, and when those customers move over, those dollars move over, it's very high margin. So it really, it's not hurting us in terms of the overall cash that we're delivering either.
Good. Earlier this year, you announced that the company had reduced its sales headcount by roughly 2,000 over the last couple of years, and I think that's kind of tracked where that, you know, legacy part of the business has certainly trended. But you've noted that capacity reduction will likely be on the lower side in 2024 here, even though we're expecting, you know, continued runoff in that business. What are you seeing maybe on the SaaS side of the business that says, "Hey, we really need to either keep or add to the sales force right now, you know, that could be efficient in this current macro?
So the SaaS business is now fully scaled. It'll be approximately 40% of our revenue next year, and so it carries 40% of our overhead and my salary and all of that. And when we look forward at the following year, we're, we're looking at it becoming our dominant source of revenue. So we're managing the size of the sales organization, a little less looking at the Marketing Services business than the past when it was most of our revenue, and more at the SaaS business and the opportunity. And we feel that we're reaching the, you know, the power curve and adoption of the small business SaaS. I mentioned we're probably in the, like, the bottom of the third inning of this thing playing out, and we think it's a good time for us to be well staffed with sales personnel.
So, you know, we're leaning into that, making that investment with an eye towards SaaS, not an eye toward Marketing Services, which used to govern how big that sales force was each year. So, you know, it really is an economic point. The SaaS business is now profitable, on the verge of being highly profitable, even carrying these overheads. So, yeah, we're really comfortable that that's the right decision. And, you know, we haven't been too specific yet. We'll guide later when we give our year-end results, but we have indicated that we expect accelerating revenue growth in the next year. And so it's a combination of having more to sell, having more places to sell it, and part of it is keeping the sales force there, so we have the numbers of people to sell it.
Sure. Looking forward to that.
Yeah.
Trying to stay away from 24 questions too much, but definitely looking forward to that.
Yeah.
All right. The last two ones for me is, first of all, on the M&A side, the company's been opportunistic there, you know, especially with the last couple legacy acquisitions you've done at roughly 2x EBITDA. I think those are home-run acquisitions. Are there additional opportunities there, going forward for you, or does that part of the Thryv book, you know, is that chapter closed?
It's not closed. No. You know, it's funny, we're not yet valued as a SaaS business, but we're not anymore valued as a dying phone book either. We're sort of in the middle on that journey. You know, we're kind of, with your help and some others, we have the sum of the parts and all that. We're beginning to get some recognition that there's a big SaaS business here. And so we have quite a premium valuation to the Marketing Services businesses that are out there. And so there's an opportunity for us to buy those on an accretive basis. And we've shown we can rapidly migrate those customers onto our SaaS platform. We've had a lot of success in Australia. I would call that a home run. It's just been incredible, and New Zealand's off to a really good start as well.
In between, we bought Vivial, and that's, that's been moving really fast in terms of those customers coming over. So we've got a pretty proven track record of being able to do this. And now with Marketing Center, we can do it even faster because we have even more, you know, more traction. So, I think there are more opportunities, and I think we, we will probably try to take advantage of those. The other piece of that question is SaaS acquisitions, because we aren't-- we don't have a SaaS valuation ourselves. So if we buy a SaaS business, on its face, it's dilutive-
Yeah
... 'cause we have to pay up. So we've gotten very close on a couple. We haven't quite gotten there, but we're pretty optimistic that we'll continue that valuation journey to SaaS. Pretty hard to ignore a great big SaaS business that's profitable and growing really fast.
They tend to jump off the page-
Yeah
... definitely. All right, last question for me is, I was speaking with an investor that was new to the story on this yesterday. At your 2022 Analyst Day, you threw out this billion-dollar target. The macros made it so the timeframe is probably not achievable from what you had before, but how do you look at that billion-dollar target today? Absolutely achievable? Do you think you have the right product? Do you think the general timeframe moves a lot from what, what that looks like? How do you conceptually kind of put all that together to reach $1 billion in SaaS revenue specifically?
Yeah, look, I think what we were at that time when we communicated that, our SaaS business was still pretty small, and I think we were trying to lay out our aspirations for where we were going and the size we saw this market in. And I'm still really comfortable with those long-range targets. You're right, they probably walk out a little bit in time. I don't think a whole lot, but I think they walk out a little bit in time. We're planning another Analyst Day coming up in the near future, and we'll update on that 'cause we do get asked about it. But we certainly will have well more than a billion-dollar SaaS business, no question about that. And the margins that we described there and the size of customer base, that will all happen.
We're feeling the demand in the market, very, very strongly now. I mean, we're really coming into the power part of this curve.
Good. Well, with that, happy to open it to the floor for a couple questions. We have about four or five minutes.
... Go ahead. I'm gonna repeat the question just for those watching online can hear.
Yeah, sure. Two-part question. First, can you talk a little bit about the competitive dynamics in the SaaS business, particularly in the SMB target space? And also, can you talk a little bit about your customer acquisition strategy? You know, product-led, Product-Led Growth, sales-led growth, how are you getting new customers into that SaaS space?
Yes. So the way I would very simply describe the small business SaaS market, and remember, we're, we're really, like, very small business. These are five employees, six employees, and these are small businesses. There's one million point solutions, like literally thousands of these little point solutions, that there was a lot of venture money out there that helped people start a lot of things. So these little loyalty tools, people that solicit for reviews for you, there's scheduling modules you can put in, there's payment tools. And a lot of people have tried one or two of these now, and with some degree of success. And when they start adopting a few, they start to realize, "Uh-oh, I got a lot of sticky notes on my desk.
Let me think about going to some more, more complete platform." And those are our Thryv customers, and that's a lot of our inbound that's coming in through our inbound channel. Which leads me to your se-
So historically, there were three big funnels the way we got our customers. The first and primary one was hunting in the zoo, calling on our existing base, and that's continuing to go well. In fact, going better because we have more products that get more traction. They're referring their friends, that's a big source. Inbound, and now, just now, are adding a fourth funnel, and the fourth funnel was in your question, it's Product-Led Growth, where through Command Center, we give away free forever, forever free, a tool where you can download and begin to unify your inbox and have a simple place to. And we have more than 25,000 people, without even any promotion or anything, they've downloaded this thing and are beginning to use it.
And as I kiddingly said, these are all little baby Thryv customers for the future. So it's like a new zoo growing up, and we're meeting these customers on a positive term and building a relationship with them without really spending any marketing money to do it. And then, as we see them either self-upgrading or we see very high usage patterns, it then warrants our sales organization talking to them. So we think this is a smart way. It's taken us about four years to develop this product and get it out. It's been a long time coming, but we will now have four funnels. So when you look at our revenue growth, say, in the second half of 2024 going into 2025, we believe it'll really be flattered by this PLG motion coming through. It doesn't bring revenue right away.
It takes a while because it's kind of like a crock pot. They cook for a while, and then they kind of move through. You deliver value before you ask for any money. But that's, that's where we are on that question.
Any other questions? Well, with that, I'll give everyone a few minutes to go fight the elevators.
Yeah.
Thank you so much for your time, everyone.
Thank you.
And Joe?