Earnings Call: Q2 2020

Aug 11, 2020

Quarterly report

Hi, everyone. Welcome to the Q2 2020 report. With me, Eva Juggerud. I'm the CEO of the company. And I'm Alexander Bicca. I'm the CFO. Welcome. I think we have a lot of listeners today. There's been huge interest and loads of questions. So we're going to run through our report and then there will be time for questions afterwards. If you haven't already asked, you can ask in the Twitch chat as well. Yes. How are you? I'm good. Yes. Yes. Had holidays in July. I would have preferred slightly warmer, but still good to be away, but also very good to be back. How about you? Same. Sweden, which has been very nice. No travel abroad at this time, but maybe later in the fall. I would love to go visit our new studios as well, of course. Shall we hit it off? So we are incredibly proud and happy before tax up actually 29%. This is well, we're hugely thankful to our staff and our fans for this result. If we can switch to the next slide, and I can talk a little bit about. We have launched 4 expansions: Invasions for Planetfall, Emperor for EU4, Island Bound for Prison Architect and Apocalypse for Stellaris console edition. The biggest one here is definitely Emperor for EU4, which it was a while ago since we had an expansion on that game. So it was great to see the reception and sales on that. We have also released Stellaris Galaxy Command, which is our mobile game in hard launch. So that means it's available all over the world. And we have had 2 Steam sales. The first one was the Paradox publisher weekend, which was in May 14th to 18th. And then we had the Steam summer sale, which was end of Q2, beginning of Q3. Especially the publisher weekend, I can talk about it, we saw all time high numbers on Steam in general, and we also saw actually our best publisher sale ever. So that was very exciting for us. We have 4,000,000 monthly active users, and we have 14,000,000 registered accounts. So growing numbers there. The quarter has been very much about building for the future. We announced that we are opening a studio in Barcelona called Paradox Tinto. The studio will be led by Johan Andersson, who has been working on Rupo and Vazalis and other games as well for a very long time. So that will be the focus of the studio going forward as well. We've seen loads of applications. So the business is kicking off there now when the fall starts to happen. Very exciting. This means, together with the other additions to the group, that we now have studios and offices in 9 places. So we're definitely growing. It's Barcelona, as I mentioned, Paris, Tammeforsch or Tampere in Finland, Delft in Netherlands, Seattle and San Francisco or Berkeley really in the U. S. And then in Sweden, we have 3 locations, Malmo, Umea and Stockholm. So 6 countries altogether, very exciting. At the end of the quarter, 534 employees. And we have signed a collective bargaining agreement for our staff in Sweden. That actually technically is also Q3 because I think it started it starts on the 1st July, but still. Two very big things that we've been working on during the quarter is to buy 2 studios. Both of them actually happened in July, so Q3. But since the work was a big part of Q2, we want to talk about it now. First, we have Playrion, which is a mobile studio in Paris. They have a game called Airline Manager, a very cool game, management game on mobile, similar to other Paradox games in a lot of ways, and it really helps us take our next step in the mobile platform. And then we have Ice Flake Studios in Tampere in Finland. Ice Flake are working on Surviving the Aftermath, which is in early access on Epic. We're also releasing it on early access on Steam in the fall, and then the full release will be in the spring next year. So that cooperation has gone super well, and we really like working with each other. So it was very nice to see them join the family. Yes. When we look at M and As, we look at a couple of different things. I would say that, first of all, we look at IPs. Do they fit with our portfolio? We look at things like we maybe want to expand the talent in a certain area? Or do we want to add 2 skills that we don't know super well? So you could say that Iceflick is an example of the adding to things we know, and Playrion is a bit more helping us expand and grow in an area that's more new to us at least, adjacent, we should say. So very cool, and welcome to all of you. We are very excited to have you in the group. COVID-nineteen, of course, a very big part of the quarter for not just us, for I think for everyone in the entire world. All of our employees in the different offices are still encouraged to work from home. We will follow what government says. So recommendations might be slightly different from country to country. But in general, we believe that we will be working from home at least most of the fall. I'm personally very, very impressed by how well our teams have adapted to working from home. I think it's it happened really fast, and the transition has been smooth. But it is a long time to be at home. So we're now trying to find ways to engage with each other a bit more naturally all the time really and hope to continue to do that during the fall. The sales, as you see in the numbers, we have seen a bump from people being at home and playing a lot of games. We see a slight, should we say, not really a drop, more back to normal levels now in July. We'll see how it continues here in the fall. But part of the very, very good Q2 is definitely because of this. Long term, we see some impact starting to see some impact on productivity. It's really hard to this is a very creative industry where a lot of the work is about meeting each other and being creative together and finding solutions together. And it is taking a little bit of a toll on this not being able to meet up. We don't have any exact numbers or anything, but we do see that we are looking at smallish delays on some of our unannounced projects so far. So you will for sure hear more about that later in the upcoming quarterly reports. Looking at what's happening going forward, I think what we here in all of our offices are currently extremely excited about is the Crusader Kings release Crusader Kings III, I should say, release on the 1st September. We haven't disclosed any numbers or anything yet, but we are doing a lot of streams on Twitch that you can follow. You can see a lot of gameplay there. So if you're interested, make sure you check it out. We're also working on studio integrations with the new studios. It's a very fine balance between letting studios have their creative freedom, but also making sure that they have help with things like legal and HR and finance and all of those things. COVID-nineteen, as I said, continues to be a big theme. And then as we also announced this morning, we have decided to push the release of Bloodlines 2 to 2021. And this is partly due to COVID that we haven't been able to work as closely together as we would have liked. And we're seeing some we're not the game isn't exactly where we want it to be to release, so that's why we decided to push it. It's we do this all the time, but we know that it's a very, very longed for game. So of course, we look forward to being able to release it later. I think that's it from me right now. Yes, over to you, Alex. Let's dig into the numbers. So as Eva mentioned and as we have written in the report, we have had a record quarter revenue wise, SEK 465,000,000 in Q2 compared to SEK 387,000,000 Q2 of 2019. So that is a 20% year on year increase. We saw the revenues coming from 4 of the usual suspects games, the Cities: Skylines, Stellaris, Rupen Michelis 4 and Haltrovaireann, of course. And then on 5th place or included in 5, Planetfall, if you want, Planetfall. This is really cool to see. It's very good to see that. But you can also add that several of our other games like Surviving Mars, Surviving the Aftermath, Prison Architect and so on, they are they were kind of close to the 5th place. So we're starting to see a nice spread between the games in terms of generating the revenues. So that's very good. We often point out that it's not always relevant to compare quarter to quarter or if you're going to do it, you need to dig in a bit more to see what especially what has been released in terms of games. And if we compare Q2 over this year and last year, in terms of expansions, they have been very similar. We have had one full expansion on one of our bigger games, both this quarter and last year's quarter. It's Q4 this quarter and for City Sky last year. We have had 2 full expansions on 2 of our other games, BattleTech last year and Surviving Mars last year. This year, it was Planetfall and Prison Architect and kind of similar sized games. And also, we had releases of expansions on console 1 Last year as well. Last year as well. So in that terms, very similar quarter. The main difference is the following. Last year, we had actually a new game, completely new game that released. So that was in Toronto. And that, of course, pushed up the revenues quite a lot. And that game did really well in the initial sales? It did. It did. So then it's, of course, impressive that we still beat this last year's quarter this year. And a couple of things that has been in our favor. One is the COVID situation, of course. And then we have had, as you mentioned, Publisher Weekend on Steam. We had this in May this year. Last year, we had it in October together with Speedexcon. So we didn't have it in Q2 last year. So therefore, that pushes up revenues this year. And also, we get quite substantial revenues from our partnerships with Microsoft and Epic. We had the Microsoft we started the Microsoft collaboration last year in June, but at that point only with 3 games and only for a little less than a month. So this year, we'll have for the full quarter. I mean, it's very exciting. We're actually releasing CK3 on Game Pass from release. So that will be exciting for us of course, I see how that works. Yes. So good revenues and good profit as well, SEK 199,000,000 in operating profit compared to SEK 154,000,000 last year. So that's a 29% increase. Similar differences, if you look at profit after financial items, SEK198,000,000 this year compared to SEK 154,000,000 last and profit after tax, SEK 155,000,000 this year compared to SEK 120 1,000,000 last year. With high revenues, normally comes higher operating margin. That's happened this quarter as well. So 43%, very strong margins. We're happy with that. And of course, the profit margins follows along. Equity over asset ratio has gone down. That is due to the new accounting standards that we implemented last year, which means that we have our office lease agreements taken on the balance sheet as a debt and as an asset. So that pushes down this ratio. And I mean that goes for all companies pretty much, right? Yes. But it has a big impact on us because last year we moved into new offices in Seattle, in Delft and not the least here in Stockholm with a big office for a long term, of course. As you mentioned, 534 employees at the end of the period and the acquisitions of Playrion and Ice Flake were closed just after. So those so our colleagues in Tampere and in Paris are not included in 534. So we are looking at roughly 50 more colleagues. And I've seen So maybe 600 in Q3 then. We'll see. Yes. I mean, I've seen a lot of activities in last week, many new faces. Yes, that's true. So we are very close to 600. Lots of new colleagues after the summer. Yes. So our charts, green line shows revenue and the other three lines shows our main expenses or our main costs. If you compare it compared to Q2 last year, nice and healthy growth, especially for revenue, but especially the last three quarters have been an increase. That is a bit unusual for us. Normally, our revenues fluctuate more from quarter to quarter. Now we've had a positive trend for 3 quarters. I shouldn't take that as a trend. The fact that we will not continue to see the fluctuations, I think that will go on for many, many years. But if you look at it at a longer time, then there is a trend that I hope will continue for many, many years and that is an ongoing trend for the revenues. Of course, cost also increases. If we compare it to last year, it has gone up. If we put all the costs together, it's up 7% compared to the 20% of revenues. So that is, of course, the way we want it to be. We are very happy to increase our expenses as long as it comes with more revenues. Doesn't always happen in the same quarter, but over time, that is how we want it to be. Let's continue The charts, revenue and operating profit per quarter. And just as I mentioned, it has been a steady growth during the last three quarters. But also if you look a bit over a longer period of time, which you can see on the next chart. But I think it's worth pointing out that the beginning of this slide is more normal for us than the end of this slide. That is more normal. Hopefully, in the long run, where our portfolio is even bigger than it is today, it will smoothen out. But at the same time, we keep making bigger and bigger games. So I think we're going to see this choppy growth for many, many years. And I'm happy with that as long as it's growth and especially if this continues to grow. So this is the rolling 12 month revenue and rolling 12 month operating profit And that is, of course, a much smoother increase. Cash flow, equally important as the revenue and as a profit and not to say perhaps more important. So another financial record for the quarter, the cash flow from our operating activities, it reached SEK269,000,000 no, sorry, SEK 279,000,000 79,000,000 in the quarter. So that's a new record. Investing activities, we tend to see new records there from quarter to quarter because we increase our investment into new games, which that is mainly. This quarter, we didn't. We invested slightly less compared to Q1, but I wouldn't assume that to be a trend. On the opposite, I think that we were going to continue to see the trend we have seen previous quarters where we continuously increase our investment into games. And that's how we've done it for many years. So we grow continuously and we invest most of what we make, we invest into new games. Exactly, exactly. And I think, of course, in Q3, it's going to look a bit different because then we have invested into new studios as well. Yes. So that makes sense. So that you can see, for instance, in Q4 2018, that was That was the acquisition of Prison Architect. Prison Architect, yes. So that's why that was up. Balance sheet, strong very strong balance sheet. This is this shows our total equity in green and our total noncurrent assets. Well, our noncurrent assets, that's mainly capitalized development and licenses and brands that we've acquired. Now since 2019, it also includes these lease agreements as an asset. And you can see a big jump in the ratio between equity and noncurrent assets from Q3 to Q4, and that has to do with the fact that we moved in into our new premises, especially in Stockholm, that pushed up the asset, the non current assets, but didn't affect equity. So therefore, as you might remember on an earlier slide, the asset per equity ratio has increased or the equity per asset ratio has decreased and that's due to this. Yes, those were the slides I had planned to show. We have loads of questions. So that's good. I'll start to read. Please do. And then and you can write in the chat as well, of course. We're trying to keep track of all of them, so hope to catch all of them. We start out with 2 Crusader Kings questions that we will try to answer a little bit more general. What are the presales numbers like for CK23? As I said, we don't disclose that. It's also not necessarily such a great indicator on how something is going to sell. So we try to of course, we have targets, but we try to really see what happens what really is relevant is what happens when the game goes live. What I can say is we're incredibly excited. And I think the whole team is very excited about it. And so we're really looking forward to the launch. You should check out the stream for sure. And then we have maybe a little bit more for you, but it's how big is the CK3 launch in terms of resources and development time? Is it similar to EU4? Yes. I mean, it's similar answer. I mean, we don't disclose how big investments we do in specific games, but we have many times said that we are constantly increasing the efforts and the resources we put into new games. And EU4 was released 7 years ago on Thursday. It's actually the 7th anniversary for Open at Horizon 4. So compared to the games we released 3, 4 years ago, we have increased a lot. And compared to 7 years, even more. So if we compare it to the base game, we have over year 4, we have invested much, much more in Sigi3. But we have also come out with tons of expansions on the U4. So if we add that together, then I'm guessing that we are fairly close. Yes, yes. That's true. Yes. All right. Then we have what does organizational changes in the communication regarding Bloodlines 2 mean? Well, I mean, when we do decide to push a release of a game, we review the whole structure of everything. So it's nothing really strange about it. It's part of we continuously evaluate how we work on a game and how we continue to work on a game. So it's pretty much what we would do all the time. I know I mean, Emperor of Sin is also coming out later this year, and I know that we had a push of that game as well before and it was the same then. We just review how we do things and try to make sure we give the game the best possible preconditions for a good launch. Yes. What about the financial forecast for Bloodlines? How is that affected by the delay? Yes. I mean, 2 kind of clear impacts. One is, of course, since we released a game later, it's going to the revenues from it is going to come in later. But then the reason why we delay this game as is almost all the time the reason why we delay any game is that we want to push in more resources and spend more time developing it. So that means that the development cost increases. But since we capitalize the development cost during the development, that doesn't show up now. It shows up in the cash flow, but not in the result. That will be seen once we release the game, then we will have more to depreciate. We've said it many times before, but the only cost we take here now is marketing costs. Yes. And then there are Or only, but it's the main cost. Yes. That's right. We don't capitalize that. But then, of course, with the development comes R and D, managers' time and so on that we don't capitalize. What about virtual PDXcon this year? Or will there be a PDXcon this year? We have had many questions COVID definitely came in the way. And as soon as we have good plans, we will share them with you. We would love to have a PDX call, if we can find a cool way to do it. Yes, yes. What about the goal of 10% revenue? Do you want to answer that maybe, Alex? Does it still stand? If so, is the focus for more internally developed games, licenses or further studio acquisitions like Playerion? Right. Well, the 10% of our revenue is going to come from mobile games. We decided some years ago that we wanted to make a huge effort to expand our platforms from PC. Not just mobile. No, no. And we have been very successful, I would say, regarding console, where we now or for at least a year is constantly seeing around 50% of our revenues coming from console. Mobile, we would like to see the same, but so far, we haven't managed to see achieve the same success on mobile. If we look at the 1st 2 quarters this year, I think it's just below 1% of our revenues that is coming from mobile. So in order to hit 10% over the full year, sounds a bit unlikely. Probably behind a little bit. Probably behind. But now we have added on Playvion. So and through that, we get the game that is up and running, that has a very solid revenue. So therefore, we guess that will definitely help. And then of course, Galaxy Command that it's a bit too early perhaps to say what it's going to yield this year, but who knows? I see it says 50% from console in the chat. No, it's 15%. 15, 15. Yes, not quite there yet. Okay. How do you see Paradox's game library growing in the future? More games or fewer bigger games? Both, I think. We are developing more games, but we are also seeing that the games grow. And like if we go back to what you said before around EU4 being released 7 years ago, the individual games titles have grown since then, and that's how we foresee that it will go in the future as well. Having said that, one has to remember that our games tend to be very niche. So it depends a little bit what you compare it to. We can be very happy with a game that doesn't sell that many copies. And so it's more about what does the game cost and what does the game sell. It's not only what the game sells. Both are relevant. Definitely a question for you, Alex. Swedish krona has strengthened in relations to the U. S. Dollar. How does that impact us or perhaps? Yes. I mean, yes, it sounds good that the Swedish krona has strengthened, but we have only a small part of our revenues in the Swedish kroner, but we have a quite big chunk of our costs in the Swedish krona. Our biggest studios are here, for instance. Yes. Our biggest studios are here. It has changed the ratio a bit because I would say almost all our external games are developed by foreign studios. And we're getting more and more studios that have salary and tax costs in foreign currencies. But we have much more costs in krona than we have revenues. So that means when we have strong foreign currencies, we as any exporting company gain from that. So we have had 1 year, maybe 2 years with very strong dollar, especially, which has been in our favor. Now we have during the last quarter seen strengthening of not only the dollar, but in pound in euro as well, or you could say weakening of the SEK. And that is on the bottom line, it's negative for us, of course. Yes. It's also part of the world we're in. So it's we know that this happens, so we don't panic over it. All right. This how has the pandemic affected PDX? What measures have been put in place? I said it a little bit before, but we've done a lot of things. First of all, of course, moving all employees to work from home. We've opened up a little bit, so you can choose if you want to be in the office. You have to sign up and everything. We've done a lot of activities both for ourselves but also for others. We've done a lot of sales that have been really appreciated internally as well where we've donated. I think last quarterly reports, we talked about a donation we made to the COVID fund. I can't remember how much it was, but it was It was just above $500,000,000, 500 we? Yes, I wish. Like that's a lot. Just above $500,000 of which is 5,000,000 donation. Yes, those are big donations for us. So we do a lot of those things. We also which isn't technically connected to the COVID situation, but it's more like how do we work in a little bit more broad sense with that. And then I talked a little bit about the financial implications as well. What about and then the next one is, can you tell us anything about the game Paradox Tektonic is working on? We've gotten a lot of questions on what different studios are working on. As I think all of you know, we don't disclose until we decide to disclose because we want to make sure that the game is what we want it to be. I think you also have heard me say the if we announce too early, we can lead that can lead to big disappointments in various groups. Having said that, they are working on a new IP, we've said. And in terms of our other studios, we both have situations where studios help each other and work on various games. For instance, in Malmo, they are working a lot on Imperator right now. And so that can happen and then there are also their own games. So okay, and then we have one around M and A. You seem to be on a roll. Are there any other mergers and acquisitions coming anytime soon? Yes. It looks like we're on a roll. I mean, we closed 2 acquisitions within 2 weeks in July. But that is unusual for us. It's unusual. It's quite some time that we did it. But it's more a coincidence and a trend that it happens within such a short time. But yes, we are continuing as we have been. We want to grow. We want to grow capacity wise and competence wise in terms of both development and publishing skills. So and we want to grow our numbers of IP. And this we can do either through organical growth as we have seen with Tektonic or with Tinto, or we can do it through acquisitions and as we play on Iceflake or Harebrained or Triumph. And which one we chose has to do we look at the time it takes to build something on our own compared to that when we acquire something, we can get it immediately. We, of course, look at the costs. Often if you're going to acquire something that is already there and exists near and running, you need to pay for it more than it costs to build it. And then the risk. Building something yourself often comes with not getting it right the first time. So we look at all these things and want to have a good mix of organic growth as well as acquisitions. All right. Okay. We have been seeing lots of new projects announced for the World of Darkness IP in the past year. Is your intention to develop some of the other IPs in the same way? Well, I mean, I think that several Lara brands have potential to grow and become bigger. It goes with what we do and what others do. So it's also connected to what we license out to other people. If it makes sense, we make games. But if we want to do something else around the project, then it's we're happy to license it to someone else. And that's why we've seen a lot of board games and books, etcetera, on many of our IPs. It makes sense for us to do licensing definitely. And the base of a decision is really will it help to grow the IP in general and will it make it bigger for the future. So yes, absolutely, we can do that. Any plans for Batotech? Do you want to answer that? There is another one I see regarding economic side. Okay. You skipped that one. I answered it. You answered it. Yes, yes, yes, yes. You answered it. But it's a very good way to it's a very financially sound way to build your brands. Yes, exactly. We'll get the help from others. Yes. Batotech? Yes. What do you think? I don't know. No. We've Batotech has gone into what we call legacy. So we won't be developing more on Battotec. We love the game, and the fans are super passionate about it. It's still play it a lot. So it's more we balance it towards other things. And HBS, the studio who have built the game, they are working on 2 new projects actually that we still haven't announced. So that should be coming up. All right. And then the next Stellaris expansion. Well, it's kind of the same answer as I said before. We don't disclose when things come until we know when they're coming. We want to give the teams their peace of mind and to often in the beginning when you start building, you don't know exactly how long it's going to take. So it also doesn't make sense to announce too early. But that doesn't mean that we aren't working on more Stellaris content. That we will do for sure. Then we have some questions around Spain, why we chose to open a studio in Spain specifically or in Barcelona even more specifically. Well, I mean, there are lots of reasons why we choose a location. In this case, we know that there are many studios who work with slightly different types of games in Barcelona, which means that there's a pool of very talented people who can come work with us. Johan it's also very important to have a creative lead. And Johan Andersson, who will lead the studio, he wanted to move. So it also makes sense to build around that. In general, it's for us, we always look at studios having strong creative lead and strong passion for the games they're building. You can't really force anyone to build a game they don't want to build. So that's really why. Okay. Then we have a few questions here on business models. I saw some on the chat around why we chose to go with Game Pass for we did it with Imperator, but also for CK3. We have one around learnings from the test with the EU4 subscription offer. I don't know if you remember, but you could on Steam, you could buy all DLCs in a subscription model for a while. And then the free weekend for Emporator. In general, for all of these tests and different ways of selling our games, The only thing we know is that how things sell change over time. That has been true for as long as Paradox has been around, and it will be true for the future, which means that we always do tests of different things. Subscription is a big thing at the moment. It's coming on very strongly. So we do various tests in that. We will continue to do that. And the same goes for free weekends where we give away the base game. If a game has been around for a while, it's a good way for us to introduce new players when we release a new DLC, for instance. So these tests will continue to happen. And I think free weekends have been very successful. Subscription also looks to be very successful. It's not for everyone. It depends on how you play the games. So for us, it's not one or the other. It's how can we add to how we make our games available for all our fans really. And I think regarding free weekends, that's something that has been very successful for us when we have when we think that we have done great improvements on the game. So we did it on Surviving Mars last year. We saw a very positive impact. We got in a lot of new players that tried it and stay on. And therefore, we did something similar with Imperator Home this year after all last year's improvements we did since the launch, and we've seen benefits for that game there as well. Okay. Then cloud gaming, that's a big one that we've been talking about a lot. What's our stance on that? Do we like it? Do we not like it, Stadia, Xcloud, GeForce NOW, etcetera? Yes, we like it. Do you like it? I mean, do It's the same, right? It develops over time. Yes. And we want to be on the platforms that our players prefers to be on, whether it's now or in the future. And we can't really know what's how it's going to be in the future. So therefore, we are super happy to try on different new things. And currently, we have games on both GeForce NOW and Xcloud. Yes. Yes. And they're very well. How does Paradox Interactive work with Triumph Studios from game design to release? This is a very broad question. It's basically how do you publish a game. So I think we're going to have to save that for another time. I recommend that you listen to the podcast where that Shams and Daniel have every now and then. There are some episodes specifically on that. It's a very long cooperation, a very close cooperation, I can tell you. Okay. Where lies your biggest markets? Europe, Eastern Asia, North America, etcetera. I normally answer that with the truth that is that North America and Europe are our biggest markets, and they are fairly equal. And then Asia, China, Japan, South Korea are big markets as well for us. Growing as well. Yes. But not in relation to how big those gaming markets are. So North America and Europe are still our big markets. What about the broker firms who follow Paradox? Do we know them all by heart? Yes. Esterberg? Yes. Kanaghi? Yes. Oh, you can't say me, all of these. Handelsbanken? No, Dankibank, ABG, those are the 4 Swiss ones. And then we have Jefferies. Jefferies and Berenberg. Yes. And then we have a couple of the new ones that are about to start. They're not always super easy to get hold of these analysts. No. They're product that the banks charge for. Yes. And they are very thorough products that they put in quite a lot of time to so they are quite interesting reading. But in the financial press, a lot of the times, you can see articles based on them. Yes. So that's a good way to find them. Do you plan to acquire more mobile game studios in the future? You kind of answered that already that we are. Are you guys allowed to talk about if you make money of Game Pass downloads or comment on all how Game Pass has impacted your business? It's a little bit too early to say. I mean, the big test for us here is the CK3 release, where we will be part of Game Pass. So maybe we can come back to that in later quarterly update. Yes. But historically, what you've seen has been positive, I think. I mean, we have definitely got added revenues from the Game Pass collaboration. And at the same time, we are seeing record numbers from Steam. So far, it looks very promising. Eber mentioned a somewhat decreasing trend in the last weeks. Would you expect another pickup in fallwinter if COVID persists throughout that period? It's really hard to say. I mean, all at home entertainment, if you will, has seen upticks due to COVID. So it's not impossible, but I would I think it depends a lot on how different countries are going to react in different parts of the world and how it's going to pan out. The famous second wave we've been hearing about, we don't know how that's going to pan out, for instance. So that's a little bit hard for us to predict. But if a lot of people spend a lot of time at home, they tend to also spend time on entertainment at home. So those 2 go together. What kind of revenues will the 2 acquisitions add? That we don't actually disclose, do we? No, no, we don't. You will see in the Q3 report, how you will be able to figure out something regarding the economics around them. But what kind of revenues? I I guess the question is size wise, but otherwise from Playrion, it will be mobile revenues, of course. And Ice Flake will mainly produce development for the games that we publish here. All right. Two more questions. Do we have time for that? Yes. One is, is there a possibility to get Paradox stock available for buying on Revolut Revolut? I don't know what that is. It's the bank card that you can withdraw money in any currency. And I'm guessing it's also some sort of trading. But let's rephrase, other markets than the one we're currently on. No, I mean, we are listed at NASDAQ First North, and that is where the shares are bought. But so I think you should if you are, for example, abroad, you should find your broker or find a broker. I'm sure they can help you you with acquiring the shares. And we don't have any plans to change? No, we don't have any plans to change. We're very happy to be on NASDAQ first one. Last but not least then, the collective bargaining agreement that you announced for Sweden is your intention to extend similar things to other parts of the world. I mean, we've grown so much as a company, and especially in Sweden, we've grown so much. We just in the years that I've been involved since 20 14, we are many times bigger. So it felt like a good time to actually find these a little bit more structured ways of working. We're not against it in other countries, but we absolutely not. It's more that it depends on the size of how big we are in the country and also how the employees in that country want to handle things. All right. I think that's it. Good timing. Thank you so much for tuning in. We're going to have a new one of these in November. Yes. November 17. 17th November. Same time, same place. The drill is that we released a press release at 8 a. M. Central European Time and then we release we have our stream at 12 Central European Time. Same procedure as always. Same procedure. Thanks a lot, Alex. Thank you. And thank you for watching. Bye.