Good day, and welcome to the CD Projekt Group Strategy Update Conference Call. Today's conference is being recorded. At this time, I'd like to turn the conference over to Kaczynski. Please go ahead, sir. Sir, please go ahead.
Adam is talking or
we are the only ones
recorded. Hello. Good afternoon, everyone. Welcome to the conference call dedicated to the Zetaphre Group's strategy update. My name is Adam Kichinski, and I will run this call together with Piotr Milubovich and Mikhail Novakovsky.
A video presenting the group's strategy update as well as the strategy presentation are both available on our corporate website, celleprague.com. I hope you had the time to walk through the materials. Let's kick off with the Q and A session. We are ready to take your questions.
And we'll take our first question from Omar Sheikh with Morgan Stanley.
Hi, everyone. Good evening. I'm going to start off with a couple of easy questions for you. Adam, maybe if you could start with just outlining exactly what you have in the development pipeline. I mean, I noticed from your comments that you're streamlining the process.
But I just want to clarify, for example, whether you still plan to release Two expansions for Cyberpunk, how many free DLCs you're planning for this year and whether you plan a multiplayer at some point And obviously, whether or not you plan still plan to release a new AAA game, which I always presume is going to be The Witcher Could you maybe update us on when you expect the game to be fully reinstated on all of the console stores, in particular the PlayStation Store? And where exactly you are post the where you think you are in the process of fully fixing all of the games, perfecting it after your release of your second patch. And then finally, on the capacity headcount of the company. Could you just give us the current number of your developer headcount, where you are today and where you hope to be, say, on a 1 year time frame and on a 3 to 5 year time frame because recorded. Clearly, one of the focuses of your strategy seems to be ensuring you have the capacity to work on more than one project at any one time.
So it'd just be helpful to get some sense of where you'd like your developer headcount to end up? That's my 3 questions.
Hello, Omar. So starting from the first one. Well, what we Just said in our strategy update, we are changing a bit our policy regarding talking about the future unannounced project. So following this, we are limiting our discussions about the projects which are not announced yet. I can confirm we are working on expansions.
Nothing changed here. Regarding online, we are changing our approach. So we want to have online in our future games, definitely, but step by step. So we are working on specific features, enhancing our single players, but we are not working on releasing the next game, the big online experience. So we'll be enhancing our single player games with online experiences.
Maybe I'll pass the second to Mikhail Novakovsky.
Hi, this is Mihael Novakowski. The second question was, if I recall correct, about the comeback to the PSM, right? So regarding this process, we have published several patches. We have just published a really big one yesterday and we Several hotfixes and each and every one of them brings us closer to going back to that PSN store. Howard, the final decision you have to understand belongs to Sony.
We do believe we closed it in further, but of course, the final call is theirs. So
recorded. So I'll take the third one, Adam, again. So of course, we want to grow our team, especially in tech related areas. We just announced that recorded. We are acquiring Sudion Vancouver, our long term partner.
And based on this, we want to grow our Vancouver team. And here in Poland, we are recruiting and we are Looking for some other opportunities, and we are enhancing our cooperation with Outsource. But it's too early to Any numbers, but we have to grow. We want to grow, and that's the goal. But it's too early to provide with any precise numbers.
Okay. Thanks, Adam. But just to follow-up on that last point. I think your last Our strategy plan for the 4 years up to 2021 was to double the headcount of developers. If we're thinking about maybe the next 4 or 5 years.
Would it be to do the same again? Or would it be more incremental?
Could be the same. Could be the same. I mean, Many depends on how we can hire and what kind of M and A opportunities We will approach. So as I said, I don't want to provide with any precise number, but Could be doubling as well as previously.
Great. Thank you very much.
Thank
you. Our next question comes from Mick Dempsey with Barclays.
Hi, it's Nick Dempsey. So just a couple of questions. So first of all, if we're not going to get recorded. Can you give us some a rough idea of when we might expect a sizable new slug of revenues to come from the Sealy project. We're simple folk.
We have models. We'd love to know whether we have spike up in our models in 2023, 20 24, 20 25. And just on the Online comments that you've made. So I mean our experience of looking at video games companies, Take 2 for example, is that What really works with online is PVP multiplayer games. Ubisoft has success there as well.
I mean, at the moment, Cyberpunk and The Witcher aren't in that category. I'm not quite sure I can envisage how adding online to the games as they currently are, would work well for the community. So can you give us a little bit more color on How you might be able to add online to your franchises without creating, as I thought previously, an entirely new multiplayer game? And the third question, you've mentioned adding headcount, you've mentioned sort of parallel development. Can we assume that your costs Are going to rise even versus where they were kind of in 2020 over the next couple of years before we get a new launch?
Thank you.
I'll start with the
first one. As we announced in the strategy, we currently focus on fixing updating Cyberpunk. We also confirm the DLCs to be developed and released to gamers. As far as Cyberpunk is concerned, we also confirm the next gen update for this year. And within the Witcher universe, So we planned Witcher: Monster Slayer mobile game from Spokka and the next update for this year as well.
And at the same time, we believe this isn't the right time to discuss specific long term publishing plans. We are focusing on ongoing large scale transformation recorded. And we do not want to talk about announced projects at this time yet for recorded. Horizon longer than what is to be released this year.
I'll take the second one, Adam. So talking about design, so for our online ideas, well, recorded. The only what we can share is that will have different strategy, but we are not providing any details how we want to enrich Our single player games, but of course, we have very strong ideas and prototypes, and we are working on this. Actually, we started working on online components over 2 years ago, and we just continued. The only change is that we continue to work on it not as a main production line, but as a supportive production line together with our systems.
But we believe that our ideas, once they will be revealed, will be very Exciting for gamers as an extra experience in our world, which
One more question about costs of hiring employees. Could you please repeat it? Or may I put more precise?
Yes. I'm just interested in understanding we understand roughly where the cost base is in 2020 around the Cyberpunk recorded. Will that level of cost something that we should expect in the next few years With perhaps some of the marketing going away, offering hiring more people and doing some of the good things to the studios you've been describing?
Most of the marketing were financed and will be booked into last year's So results, I mean, all those related to Cyberpunk launch. This year, we will have some additional costs of So, I'm not beating Cyberpunk, but all of the expenditures on developing new projects are capitalized. So you will not see this directly in our P and L of this year. They will be capitalized on the on time horizon of the development and then depreciated into our P and L upon release of each of the projects. So from this perspective, Nothing changes comparing to the way we booked and increased our expenditures on that program.
And We'll take our next question from Ken Rump with Jefferies.
Hi. Hello, gentlemen. If I could ask a couple of questions. The first one, there's a reference about sort of multi track development, which you've talked about in the past The desire to be doing that and the challenges. And you refer to kind of getting ready to be doing that in 2022.
Does that imply that you have not been working on, for instance, new games in the Witcher universe with the recorded. Because I think certainly people assumed that you've been doing some work on another game in that universe. Recorded. And also that frankly there are people in the organization, concept artists who can hardly be helping with Cyberpunk at this stage. My second question is to try and clear up for me at least, maybe for the audience, kind of the online multiplayer question.
You seem to be saying that you want to have an online element of the single player game. Am I understanding that correctly that you don't Oppose a multiplayer because I could play the game with Stadia and call it online, but it's somehow a richer experience than a single player game online? Or am I misunderstanding that you're planning some kind of social experience, if I call it that. Sorry if I'm misunderstanding, but I'm certainly not clear about quite what you do and don't plan
Hi, Ken. Adam here. So I'll answer the first question. We are more focused On Cyberpunk in terms of fixes, in terms of next gen update, as we previously planned, that's for sure. Of course, not everyone recorded.
But we don't want to announce any new projects, and that's why we are trying not to talk about Anything which is not enough. So this is a part of our new policies not to build too much expectations, but not whole team, I'm talking about AAA development is working on Cyberpunk. So there are some other things But we deliberately decided to say that Proper power of development will start next year because we are transforming the 2 at the same time. We need some time for new methods for transformation and some more focus still on Cyberbank. And after this, after the phase of the transformation, because we won't transform the way we work in 1 year.
But I believe that after 1 year, we can sum up where we are and then we can talk more about how the team is divided recorded into Power Development. I'll turn the second question. It's simple. We are referring to MultiClient. So we are not talking about online Anything like Saver.
No, no, I'm talking we are talking about some kind of multiplayer, so people playing together.
Okay. That's great. Can I ask a follow-up on that point about parallel development?
Does it require
New people, new skills to be brought in? Or is it kind of something, obviously, you intend to recruit, so that will help. But is it kind of, We can't do this until we get people who have certain skills? Or is it that we're working on it, it's a process and new recruits will be part of it, But not a necessary condition, kind
of. It's not a necessary condition. Of course, we will recruit, we'll build our technical muscles, But it's more about changing the way we work and changing more to agile because this is part of our plan, to be much more agile in terms of methodology of the framework, how the work is organized. And we need some time for this because We haven't tried it yet in big development. Agile was implemented into Gwen development some time ago and it works great.
So now we know that we need some time to reorganize how we work to start In full speed working on 2 fronts, I guess.
Okay. All of that, Gerald. Thanks.
Thank you.
Our next question comes from Robert Berg with by Berg.
Yes. Hi. Just a couple of questions from me. First, as a follow-up, actually, to, I guess, the previous Two sets of questions on the line. It feels like you're putting words in your Taking a less ambitious view on multiplayer for Cyberpunk.
I think historically you had the view to put a decent chunk of the Cyberpunk team into that AAA multiplayer game.
But how should
we think about the size of your online team now? And if it's smaller, where are you reprioritizing these people? Is it Am I getting the impression you're putting a greater focus than before on getting The Witcher up and running, and maybe taking some resource away from multiplayer? Or am I misreading what you're saying here? And the second question is I just want to dig a bit deeper into why you're communicating less about your games.
You've mentioned you don't want to talk about the future and that's fair, and you want to announce things at a later date. But aside from allowing you to be more agile, Which does make a lot of sense. Did you have learnings from where financial expectations got to ahead of the release of Cyberpunk? And is this in any way an attempt to manage perhaps manage
So I'll start with the first one. We are not less ambitious actually in terms of online. It's just a different way of going there, More step by step, less like releasing single player. And we are reorganizing things which consists of Teleparec Red and partially GOG as well. And based on this, we'll have online in this unit, we'll have online development.
So we are changing many things organization wise to make our work more efficient. And we are not providing numbers of how many people is working in working, but we continue working on those in this project, but in a different approach towards the final ultimate goal, as I said, step by step. So we are kind of derisking the project, but Of course, we are not changing our ambitions. Joao, can you take the second?
Definitely, we learned on Cyberpunk launch many things among them that the project shouldn't be highlighted or shouldn't be announced too early and promoted too early, building expectations when you're not ready to do this. And for future big releases, we aim on the later initiation of marketing campaign. And at the same time, we would prefer to announce all of the upcoming things in annual cycles. So that's why we covered this year so precisely, but in case of longer term things, as I mentioned, we plan to reorganize the to learn new ways of developing games, be more agile. And then when the time comes, announce recorded.
And give more guidance that we can reasonably give you today.
And just a quick follow-up, if I can. So in terms of financial guidance, I mean, many companies of your size Give a guidance or some kind of nudge in the right direction with regards to financials. Are you still just Allowing everybody to bear in mind
at this stage. Is that
the plan going forward for the next few years?
Financial guidance for future periods. And for now, we have not changed There was never a guidance from us and there is nothing like this as far now.
Okay. Thank you.
Our next question comes from Adrien de Saint Hilaire with Bank of America.
Yes. Good evening, everyone. Thanks for the updates. First of all, I know this is a strategy update, not an earnings call, but I was wondering if you Could update us on the number of units sold for Cyberpunk since the last number you gave late December? And maybe if you could discuss the performance Of the game on PC.
And then about second question back to the strategy. So as far as I understand it, you're saying that you can run the development of 2 AAA games at the same time, but assuming that these come on the same year or could we envision that There are many years apart between those gains. Thank you.
Hi. So I can start with the sales. I mean, the last time we've given the sales recorded. The $13,000,000 we announced post launch. And since we haven't posted the results yet, we're not giving any Specific updates, just yet, we'll have to wait for that for the actual moment when we close the results.
Thank you.
Our next question comes from Vladimir Bespulov with VTB Capital.
Hello. Thank you for taking my questions. First, could you elaborate a little bit on what you are saying in your press release? So we also foresee the huge potential of both the Witcher and Cyberpunk, We want to expand the reach to include new areas, media and content types. What exactly does this mean?
What kind of Extension to these new areas are you planning? And my second question will be on your planned M and A recorded. So in particular, what kind of expertise apart from the headcount you are going to gain from the M and A activities that you are going to step up? And are you going to move somewhere beyond, I would say, your core expertise right now, maybe More to mobile games or whatever, maybe you could provide some color on that as well. Thank you.
Hi, it's Guido.
This is Ke again. So regarding the areas where we can expand the brand, we actually did speak about it in the presentation, I believe so. So it's everything that we understand as part of the larger franchise. So and a lot of it you can actually recorded such as comic books, toys, merchandise connected with the game. But not only, I mean, we We also expect going beyond the core game.
You've seen that with Gwen in the past. You will see that with the AR game on mobile, Monster Slayer. These are the announced projects we have on the within the Witcher franchise. And of course, we do plan to go in similar directions with Cyberpunk as well. With Cyberpunk, we also control The say movie in the region.
So for example, we're working on the anime With Trigger Studio Japan and Netflix, Cyberpunk Edge Runners and there's more to be explored there. So This is more or less what we meant, a bigger, bigger franchise. And that is all coming From the main game, the game is driving everything else and so on. Sorry, could you remind me recorded. 2nd question was about the M and As, right, which is where we are planning to
Yes, what kind of
recorded. Okay. So right now, as is the case with Digital We're looking mainly at our technical experts, but we're all going to feel to other opportunities within that area. This is the main area of interest for us, I would say,
recorded. And
I'll jump on for a second because there was one unanswered question about Releasing Releases in parallel development. Not reviewing any future plans, I can just say that It's much wiser to not to accumulate releases in 1 year. So to have Development in different sizes when you have developed development. So once one game is released, the second
Would you like to move on to our next question?
Recorded. Yes, please.
Thank you. Our next question comes from Matthew Walker with Credit Suisse.
Thanks a lot. Hope you can hear me. The first one is, will you be doing paid DLC in 2022. The second question is, Justice, Could we get some more clarity on what you mean by online versus multiplayer? You mentioned online playing together.
I don't think I'm the only person on the call who is somewhat confused by this definition about online. So could you just explain how are you monetizing this online? And what exactly is it? How is it different from multiplayer? Because I appreciate you don't want to reveal all your plans, but this is a pretty Important thing that people have been waiting for quite a long time.
So I think it's really important And then last question is, in terms of units, You don't want to give financial guidance, which I can understand. But what would be a reasonable range for a number of Cyberpunk units for 2021. You can frame it recorded as you know whether you get back on the Sony store or not, but just having some idea about what is feasible in terms of unit for Cyberpunk. So those are my three questions. Thanks.
Regarding the first one, I mean, about the paid DLCs. First of all, there is a distinction for us at least between the DLCs and the expansions. I'd like to remind about that because DLC is something which is a smaller piece of confidence, which we have given in the past a way for free within which are free and that's the plan still for core Cyberbank as well. Now when it comes to expansion, which is what the Blood and Wine and Hearts of Stone was in the past, That is a bigger thing. And these are paid.
And once we announce Something like that for Cyberpunk, it will definitely be paid. I would rather not comment on the timing of that. This is a totally different story. And And tying back what we were saying in the presentation, we would like to announce things closer to the actual launch also for the proper marketing effect. Recorded.
So give us time with that. But yes, if you're talking about the expansions, those will still be based on bigger chunks of codes,
I'll take the second, Adam. We are talking about multiplayer, full stop. So we are referring to multiplayer elements within our games. And 1st and foremost, we have to be focused to make them To make them fit to our single player experience, so it's too early to talk about monetization, but definitely we want players to be able to have shared experience to play together in our games, future games. So in some areas, I would say.
So why do you not call that multiplayer then? I'm still confused about why you don't call that multiplayer.
Well, actually, we can call it multiplayer. I mean, we use it for the same purposes, but maybe we were not too clear. So we can call it multiplayer elements as well. Sorry for that.
And on the range of units?
As the Fiber Point sales for recorded. First of all, they will I believe they will be driven by 2 major Elements that we keep working on. 1st, patching and updating the game, and this should also result Welcome back to the Sony Store. Obviously, Sony's decision is much awaited by many gamers, and we believe it may also influence The second important milestone is the next gen addition that we plan for the second half of this year. Since both events are still in front of us and are kind of unprecedented in our history.
It's really hard to make reliable judgment on how the sales will increase after Apache after coming back to Sony and how gamers will adapt the next an update, especially that we are planning to offer the next gen additional Cyberpunk 4.3 to all those who already purchased it on the old generation of consoles. So this is all in front of us. We believe it will have significant influence on the sales results. But at the same time, it's really hard to give you an educated guidance on work which will exactly lead us to.
Okay. Thank you.
Our next question comes from Martin Nowak with by Pappima Securities. We'll move on to our next question with Shereya with HSBC.
Hi, thanks for taking my questions. Just on the employee side, do you think it will be difficult to retain employees under the 20 2020 to 25 employee incentive program given the high exercise price that's been set up for the market goal and the net profit goals as well for the results element. And the second question is just could you give a bit more color on how employee morale is at the moment? Has there been Higher employee turnover than expected at this stage or is employee retention then increasing or decreasing?
Hello, Adam here. In terms of the program, well, recorded. It's just started, so it's too early to judge. And I truly believe that this is not the main motivation for our teams. So we'll see in this regard.
Definitely, we want to improve The working conditions, we want to implement new initiatives. Some of them are already recorded in words. So we want to be more focused on our teams and to make our environment more friendly. And by this, we believe we can retain most of the talent and We can prevent high rotation, but rotation after finishing project It's not true. So this is another thing.
So we have to be ready that this year is I mean, rotation this year will be probably higher than on average. Same happens after all three weeks. So it's kind of natural state.
Thanks. And just to check, so do you think that it will be higher than what you would have expected, I guess, the end of the AAA Projects regarding employee turnover.
To be honest, we don't know yet. We don't know yet. We've just finished and We'll see by the end of the year, but and then we can compare it to, for example, to the situation of the wheelchair suite. But on the other hand, all those changes we are implementing, we truly believe recorded. We'll be very motivating for the team because we are really changing many things.
This strategy update is mostly focused on this because This is a big transformation, the first big transformation in our development history. We were preparing for this before launch. So it's not like After launch, we decided, let's transform our studios. So that was Long plan and now we have even bigger motivation to be a better place to work and more productive, still being focused on quality, Sudia. And this is I hope I truly hope this is the best way to keep recorded.
The most talented people here with us.
Great. Thanks very much.
Our next question comes from Matti Leutonen from Bernstein.
Good evening. I've got two questions. The first one on adding talent. In the DigitalScapes press release, you mentioned that you see Vancouver as a good foundation for growing a sort of 4th developer team for CD Projekt. So Is this in recognition that it might be harder to organically scale the existing 3 CD projects, RED development teams in Poland, for example, Because of the limitations of the local talent pool at this stage or the fact that these are development teams already recorded in that market.
And the second question is on governance. You mentioned an expanded role for the CTO. Are there any other sort of meaningful and then, of course, all the changes at the operational level. Are there any other meaningful changes at the top of the organization in, say, reporting roles, changes in how communication works between the different parts of the group. Recorded.
Should is there anything to add on that? And then finally, could you just give us any color on the role of the Supervisory Board in formulating this strategy update. Thank you.
Regarding Vancouver and our limitations in Poland, definitely, Poland can be more difficult to grow organic recorded for us because we are the biggest developer here. And the talent pool in Poland It's not small. It's a very Dynamic Market, and we have many developers. But still, in terms of very experienced developers, There are some limitations in Poland. So we are bringing people here to Poland, but it's not always possible.
And Vancouver seems It seems to have a great opportunity in this time for these huge, experienced developers, and We have a very strong foundation. I mean, this is our way, I mean, to start working with someone to know each other, to like each other and then We decided to do things together. So that's I mean, we same with it with our Rotwa studio 3 years ago. So we started working with external companies, then we just bought them. And based on them, with both our Rotwaf Sudskaya.
So we're kind of repeating the same scenario. I mean, hope to recorded. And the second question was sorry, because it's a big number of those questions. It was about what?
Yes. So it was on governance. So first of all, you mentioned the expanded CTO role. Are there any sort of other notable changes at the top of the organization in addition to that and the sort of operational level changes you mentioned? And then sort of Relating to the Supervisory Board.
Could you give any color on their role in formulating this new strategy?
So yes, there are some other changes, but they are not announced yet. But we are rather Trying to empower those who've been with us for some time. So we are empowering people But we can't announce things which are not announced yet. And in terms of Supervisory Board, They are part of our discussion board. The board itself is the main structure of the strategy update, but of course, we are working closely with supervisory boards as well.
Very helpful. Thank you.
Our next question comes from Tomas Rodak with BOS Brokerage.
Yes. Hi. Good afternoon. I just I'm sorry, but I just want to clarify on these online elements. Recorded.
I just want
to make sure if I understand it correctly. Does it mean that for now you don't intend to develop a big standalone multiplayer game based on your universe, which have their own like monetization systems, but rather small online expansions, like, I don't know, for recorded. This is the first question. And the second question is related to the first one. Does a drop in a big multiplayer mode for now, does it mean that Future gains, like for example, next Witcher gain may come out earlier than you previously planned?
And Another question is regarding your marketing campaigns, because in the presentation you Marketing and PR campaigns will start closer to the actual launch. However, new projects might still be recorded. I wonder isn't teasing a part of marketing campaign? And what did you mean by this exactly? Could you give an example of And the last question is, could you please describe and specify the agile ways of games development that you want to adopt since now as compared to what you have been doing until now and what made you change your attitude towards the development process?
All right. So I'll take the first two and the last. So we are Changing our way towards multiplayer, and we want to As we said, online elements, I'm not talking via CICE or MALT. It's not I mean, we are not ready to talk about any details, but the major trend is that we want to be there step by step. And currently, we'll, of course, Developed the AAA as well.
So online parties not and we'll have to Pearl AAA single player development teams and online bond with them with a Different organization, I would say, organized in a different way. And multiplayer plus online components The next one was money, right? No, sorry, the next one may come up,
recorded. It's
too early. I mean, we're not ready to take both days recorded. And plans that deliberate decision. I know it's hard for everyone, but we are trying to change our approach recorded. We're talking about the future.
More focus on how we work, less focused on recorded. Our release plan. So I'm not I'm going to cease anything about this. Recorded. And maybe the last one, and Piotr will take the third one.
I'll take the last one. Agile Way, I mean, Agile is Clearly well described. It's about having multi disciplinary teams Which can be how to say it, the progress is tracked by delivering recorded. And having constantly working this game, we can build the game on every stage seeing the progress. Recorded.
In our previous developments, we had been working in waterfall model. We were preparing many things in Silos Organizations. So some programmers working on one part of the feature and designers were working on a different part of the same feature. And then at the fairly late stage, So it's as some call them scrum. Of course, not everywhere.
We have to be reasonable, but It's about multidisciplinary teams working on features and being able to deliver
Okay. And I'll take the TEAS question. So the difference between TEAS and the proper marketing in PR communication is that Looking at the examples from the industry, could be as little as, I don't know, a small trailer with logo type reveal and the And the announcement that the game is on the teeny tiny trailer or maybe even not very obvious sort of mentioned that or a hint that something is coming to leave the audience semi guessing that the actual The way that it's done for each franchise is a technicality in part of the tactics that a given marketing team wants to execute. So I'm not giving those examples doesn't mean that I'm saying this is how we're going to do it, right? I'm just giving you examples as you've asked.
For example, Skyrim Denateez of Skyrim 6, I think a year ago when they show that landscape and LSGrow's not Skyrim 6, sorry, LSGrow 6 showing the logotype and that's it. And the proper marketing campaign and TDR campaign is when we want to go in, show proper footage, Start discussing the details of the game mechanics, what the game is about, what's in the game, what is special about the game and so on. So it's the proper feed of the information recorded and the assets is when we what we consider a proper kick off of the marketing team. And that's the part we want to have much shorter. The fees can happen earlier, but the actual marketing pay will have it much shorter and much closer to the actual launch of the game.
Okay. Thank you.
We'll take our next question from Martin Nowak with Ipo And once again, we'll move on to our next question from Thomas Sokolowski with Santander.
Hi. I'd like to ask about the expansion to Cyberpunk. Could you confirm that you're working on them and you're going to have to issue them, I mean, paid expansion? Yes, I have some
questions. Hi. Yes, I mean, we've been talking about the fact There's going to be expansions for CYTOPLINK for a while. While we're not giving any details in terms of their names, size, Any potential SRP or anything of the kind, yes, we can confirm we'll be working on them. They're part of our plans.
Okay. Thank you.
And that concludes our question and answer session. I'd like to turn the conference back to our presenters for any additional or closing remarks.
Thank you very much. Thank you for being with us. Thank you for the interest in our strategy update and CEO on our probably CEO on our recorded on 19th April. Thank you. Bye bye.
And that does conclude today's conference. We thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect.