Goldman Sachs 2021 Virtual Technology and Internet Conference

Feb 10, 2021

Hi, I'm Heath Terry. I cover the Internet sector for Goldman Sachs. Really excited to have with us today Katrina Lake, Founder and Chief Executive Officer at Stitch Fix. Katrina, thanks for taking the time to join us. Thank you for having me. Yes. So for investors watching that may not be as familiar with Stitch Fix or know you maybe as a customer, what's the right way for them to think about what it is that you're building and how Stitch Fix is different from other online clothing retail companies? Yes. What we're really building is like what I believe to be the future of how people are going to buy apparel in 10, 20 years. And as all of us know, all of us have bought clothes at some point, like the experiences of buying apparel today are deeply broken. Like you are looking at a scenario where you are walking into a store, you are flipping through racks and racks of things which are not relevant to you, they're not your size. There's thousands of pairs of jeans on this planet. There's a subset of those that are going to be awesome for you. And what's even the probability that you walk into a store and flip through hundreds of jeans and find ones that are great for you? That's an obviously broken experience and e commerce really isn't better. I think the idea of searching and filtering your way to finding the perfect pair of jeans is, I mean, that's a pipe dream, like that's a crazy way to shop for jeans online. And so there has to be a paradigm shift in the way that we think about how do we actually kind of match make between people and products. And so with Stitch Fix, we do exactly that. So we most of our kind of most of our history to date has really been around this notion of fixes where people sign up, they let us know what they're looking for, what they like, what they don't like. Based on that, we use a combination of algorithms and human stylists for people to be able to try things on at home, send back what they don't like, keep what they like. We have sold $6,000,000,000 of clothes sight unseen that way And what that means is that we've built this amazing personalization muscle. And so when you're trying things on and you let us know, I love this, but I have something just like it, I like this. It was too big. Whatever the feedback is, that helps us to get to know you and it also helps us to know the garment. It helps us to get to know people in general. And so that personalization capability has really been kind of what we've created over the last 10 years. And now we're really focused on like how can we actually make the most of that. And so fixes are great for one modality of shopping. The reality is there's lots of other ways that people want to shop. The market opportunity for a more personalized way to buy apparel, I really think is all of it. Like every single experience that we have buying apparel will be better served if you were only seeing the things that were relevant to you and personalized to you. So we're still super early on the journey of achieving that kind of goal and dream, but I do think that now with the 1,000,000,000 of dollars of 1,000,000,000 of dollars of apparel we sold through fixes and now as we're starting to look at direct buy and really innovating on our platform that we're starting to chip away at kind of what that can look like. Yes. So what's the profile of a typical Stitch Fix customer? Yes, it's a great I mean, 1st and foremost, I have to say because it's a first analyzed model, the premise really is that we serve a wide range of price point. We do men, we do plus size, we do kids, we do women's, of course, like we do a wide range of aesthetics. But from a psychographic perspective, it's kind of interesting. I think the notion of and I'll talk about fixes first and then about direct buy, but with fixes, you're entrusting a lot in our process and the stylist. And so fixes is a little bit more of like a sit back and do it for me experience. What's interesting is that more we've done surveys on this and something like more than half of the people who live in the United States don't like they don't like shopping. And I think many of us can probably empathize with that. Maybe we at least know people who are like that. A little bit. And what's interesting is like there's no other kind of apparel commerce play out there that actually caters to that customer. Like the premise of apparel shopping is like, hey, you want to see our new arrivals? Hey, you want to be inspired by this? You want to try all these things on? Like half of the people in this country don't even want to do those things. And so this notion of like sit back and do this for me and help me is really relevant to more than half of the United States. And that's really what the fixes offering from a psychographic perspective serves and within that we can serve all kinds of different profiles and price points and categories. And then what's I think what's really exciting is really thinking about direct buy and how direct buy can start to add to that. And so the direct buy can really address more people who want to have more say in what they're getting, people who from an occasion perspective, like if you want something really specific at one point in time, fixes may not be the best modality for that, but direct buy can get there. And so our belief is that personalization really should be able to serve all of the needs out there, all of the different ways that you want to shop and we're just starting to get there in that. But I think that today that psychographic perspective of like if you hate shopping, fixes are a great way. But over time, we're starting to show that we actually can address more and more of those use cases and more of those psychographics. And so when you think about what you're addressing, is there a sense of the share of your customers' wallet that you have for apparel? And really curious how DirectBuy and some of your other initiatives like that might be changing that share? Yes. It was interesting and we haven't updated data this in a long time to be clear, so I can't share any specifics. But for a minority percentage, but a minority but significant percentage of our clients, like we are the majority of their share of wallet. And that's interesting across a lot of dimensions. It means that we really understand the composition of their closets. And then what's been interesting with DirectBuy is that we've seen clear incrementality with DirectBuy. We can see that through kind of our numbers and cohort performance, but we can also see that by a little bit by category penetration. And so, we've seen things like shoes and handbags perform a lot better in direct buy than they do in fix it. And rationally, that kind of makes sense. Like if you're not shopping actively for a handbag, like you may not actually need one and if you don't need one, you may not want one and it's similar with shoes, like you're either looking for a pair of shoes or maybe you're not. And so for those things where the timing really matters and where there's a kind of exact right point in time that you need it, but direct buy is a much better modality to serve. And so our goal, of course, is that we actually should be able to increase share of wallet over time with our customers and revenue per client is a good metric to kind of see how we've been able to do that historically. And as we're getting better at personalization, as we're getting better at getting people to come back and getting people to be excited about shopping, not just through fixes, but direct buy, these are all things that really help us to grow that share of wallet. So the last year has obviously been incredibly challenging on countless levels. You've had to deal with challenges in your fulfillment centers and remote working and the massive change in the demand for apparel as well as the adoption of e commerce. What have you learned in the period in this over this period? And how is it affecting or will it affect the way that you strategize and manage Stitch Fix going forward? We could probably spend the whole day on this. Yes. Spend the whole day on this. Where to start? I mean, it's been an incredibly challenging year. The silver linings of it really are, I mean, this is as an entrepreneur, these time periods where things are changing, the world is shifting beneath you, consumers are changing, they're totally open to trying things in new ways, like that's an incredibly exciting time, if you could set aside all the other emotional challenges we've had. And so just from a business and strategy perspective, I think it's really helped us to accelerate some of the exciting things that we are thinking that might have been 5 years from now or maybe a couple of years from now and really invest in those things now and to take advantage of kind of the ground shifting beneath us. While right now people are buying less clothes this time of year than they did last time this time of year last year for very obvious reasons, we still we've been growing share in that. We've been growing our business. We've been growing share during that time period. And so I think it feels like it does feel like the things that we've been working on for the last 10 years are the right relevant things that are going to help us now and in the future. And so all of that I think is some of the silver lining of what we've seen. On the flip side, like I mean, one of the things like working from home actually is interesting. Like our stylists already were working from home. Our engineering team was already largely working from home. And so we were very lucky that we had teams internally that knew how to build cultures in remote environments and that we could learn from and kind of our organization getting more remote. Our fulfillment centers, we've been in a mode of investing in our fulfillment centers for a long time. They've been a very important part of the client experience and this time period has only shown us how important they are and how we need to continue to invest in those fulfillment centers. And so that's probably more of a continuation of strategy. And then around the social justice issues, I think it's interesting when you think about company culture and the time that we all invest in building these great cultures and having people have alignment around what the values of the company are. And there might be times when you wonder, does this really matter to the enterprise value of the company or not? And I can tell you like what we went through this summer, I was immensely grateful that we had made all of those investments in our culture. And so certainly the notion of equity is something that's always been really important to Stitch Fix. We have pay equity parity, we've shared that, we have we do a lot of practices around market based pay, making sure that we're equal in that front. And so that was in our DNA already and something that people really understood to be part of our DNA. And because of what we saw this summer, I think it gave us a chance to double down. And so as an example, we launched this Elevate program that really helps to diversify our vendor base. We looked at what are the all the different ways of all the different forms of power that we have as an organization to create change in the world. The money we spend with our vendors is one of those and we saw a stunning lack of diversity in that vendor base and the Elevate program, which provides sponsorship and mentorship to underrepresented designers, that was something that came out of that, but I think ultimately is a great thing and something that our team is super excited about and ultimately I think will create change in the world. And so it was undoubtedly the most challenging year of my leadership, but I think at the same time we probably learned more than we ever have and we've built more resilience than we ever had. And the importance of flexibility is another thing. Like it's nearly like every day and every week has kind of looked different and crazy this year. And so I think our team has had to really build a lot of muscle around how do we think about being more flexible as an organization and reacting to data quickly. And so in the long run, I think those are probably all good things, but certainly challenging when you're dealing with them all at once. Sure. No question. Yes, Elevate is such an amazing initiative. It's hopefully something that we'll see a lot of other places or some things like it a lot of other places. We've touched on DirectBuy a couple of times now, but for people who maybe aren't as clear on Stitch on direct buy itself, what is the vision for DirectBuy and how has the offering evolved over the last year or so since you started rolling it out? Yes. So I mean the 1st 10 years of the company really were the primary vehicle of growth and really still is this notion of fixes, which we've already talked a little bit about where you're not getting to choose the items that arrive at your home and where there's no there's kind of like little e commerce UI to it. And so while that is a great way to shop, we also know that there's many people who want to, who actually enjoy looking at product, who actually enjoy kind of seeing a variety of things and want to have that instantaneous click and buy and have it come to your home experience. And so with DirectBuy, what we did was we really took that same personalization capability that we built in fixes, but oriented it around more of this click and buy experience. And so, we are not we still have the same notion of this is personalized. The selections you are seeing are not the selections that your friends or your neighbors or whoever else are seeing. These are really specific to what you're seeing. And so while we probably at any given time have tens of thousands of things we could be showing you, we're only showing you a small subset, could be 20, 30 of those things that we really believe are products that you have a high likelihood of keeping and liking. And so we still use the same personalization, we still use the same notion of curation, but we're allowing you to click and buy and we've experimented with different formats. And so we've done trending for you, which is really kind of looking at more of the newer things that we're getting in our inventory and the ones that are most relevant for you. We are also looking at we've looked at ways to be able to complete your look and so things that you've already bought that you can actually find complementary that I've had the that I've had the privilege of getting to work on because it's one of those initiatives that is both really powerful and we can see in the data that it's working. And at the same time, like there's still so much opportunity. Like every time I experience it, I'm like, okay, this is cool, but this would be amazing. And so a product experience perspective, we still have a lot that we can do to improve that experience. And so it's this really kind of exciting green shoot, so to speak, of just like something that we have enough data to know that this is exciting and at the same time, it's absolutely not fully materialized yet. Yes. One of the things that we hear a lot or at least get in some of the conversations that we have with investors is this perception, and I know it's not correct, but this perception that direct buy means you end up looking like just a big shopping mall that sells everything within apparel. What role does all of your investments in algorithms and data science and machine learning play within that direct buy model? Yes. I mean and I think the onus is on us to be able to provide better proof points for this because the reality is it's wildly different. It's radically different. Like in an e commerce store, in an e commerce setting, like first of all, you are seeing all of the inventory. You are seeing 1,000,000, 100 of 1000 of things, most of which are completely irrelevant to you. And the notion of like we're only going to show you 20 or 30 things and expect to drive conversion off of that is like a pretty crazy thing. Like if you went to a department store and you said, hey, like your homepage can only show 20 items per person, Like, I mean, these companies would have no business. And so like the personalization actually forces you to really place bets appropriately and that's definitely part of that curation and personalization. The other place and we haven't shared specifics on it, but when you look at our return rates, like we know it works, like we are showing you things that are only relevant for you, they're not relevant for others, they're relevant for you. And that drives conversion, it drives product acceptance. It drives people loving it. It drives them to not return it. And so this paradigm of like being able to see things that really are right for you and only you, I think is something that you don't see other English players able to do. And a lot of that has to do with the fact that we've sold $6,000,000,000 of closed sight unseen. And so like every single garment, like people are sharing with us feedback, we know who it works for, we know with statistical significance that this garment is more likely to work with these cohorts of people than these other ones. And being able to have that rich data allows us to have these really accurate recommendations. I do think one of the product improvements that we can make to be able to have the end user experience to get more gutturally that way. I think today people, I think there is ways that we can actually demonstrate why it's for you or why we have that confidence that I think we'll be able to show that a little bit more viscerally to people. But behind the scenes, like we know every single recommendation for each person and garment is unique to that combination. And so that's a very, very different paradigm than the way that you're experiencing e commerce in other places. Yes. So beyond DirectBuy, what enhancements are you making to the fixed offering to drive greater personalization and improve client retention, wallet share, average spend per customer, the KPIs that matter to you? Yes. I mean, those are exactly the KPIs that we're tracking on a daily, weekly basis. We're constantly running AB test. We have shared historically that our index success rate, so the probability that clients are going to keep items that has gone up steadily, dramatically over time and all of those things are the kind of the aggregation of all of the things that we're doing every day to make our merchandise more relevant, to make our recommendation engines more relevant. And so kind of enhancing that fixed experience is the bread and butter of the vast majority of work that happens at SysPhix. Something specific that we've been experimenting with that has been really fun is fixed preview. And so this notion fixed preview. And so this notion of like there are times when clients might be intrigued by the idea of Stitch Fix, but at the same time, maybe a little bit skeptical like what's actually going to come from me? Does this personalization actually work? Like how are they going to send me jeans that are really going to fit? Like I think people have a lot of skepticism that like that a Stitch Fix model can actually work for them when we're only sending them 5 items and they don't have the choice in that. And so what we've realized is that being able to give people a preview, I think builds confidence. It also helps us to understand people better during that experience. And so the fixed preview is something that we actually rolled out in the U. K. Originally as a test bed there. And it was very successful there. And so now we're bringing that over here to the U. S. And that's been a very exciting evolution of our service that I think it improves the experience that people are having in fixes, but it also actually helps with conversion and helps people who might have been on the fence about Stitch Fix to be able to feel like they have more control over that experience. So as you continue to enhance the Fix offering and expand direct buy, what kind of investments are you making into the inventory and even logistics strategy to lot. Element is definitely an area we've I mean, candidly focused on a lot in the last 10 years being pure e commerce, like that's an area we've had to focus on. And I think as we've seen more and more dollars shift to e commerce in general, we know that environment is getting more competitive and so all the technology that we're using in those warehouses becomes more and more valuable. And so that will certainly continue. The inventory model side, I think is really interesting. I think our focus right now as we think about what direct buy can do, as we think about decoupling personalization from fixes and being able to address many more types of clients out there, selection and diversity of selection is super important. And so I think there's an opportunity for inventory models and being more creative in the way that we think about working with our vendors that can actually enhance our selection, that can really provide a better experience for our clients. And so we're still super early in that thinking and that experimentation, but I think it's a really exciting kind of area to be thinking about and certainly has really powerful kind of balance sheet implications over time of like if there are ways we can increase our selection without actually using our cash to do it. Obviously that generates better outcomes for clients, can generate more revenue without actually tying up cash in the balance sheet. And so for all of those reasons, I think it's a really exciting space to be thinking about and the team is definitely putting a lot of thought there. Yes. Logistics was obviously a huge challenge for a lot of e commerce companies, I mean, and has been during this entire pandemic, but especially during the Q4. Not asking anything specific about the quarter, of course, but just how you think about sort of the bottlenecks that are developing around logistics? Yes. I mean, we've always been really fortunate that like in our model we have a lot of predictability. And so you talk about kind of the holiday quarter, which is very challenging for a lot of companies where a lot of their volume have materialized in the Q4, we are still susceptible to the same labor pressure, to the same shipping pressure that all of these other companies are. But the thing is we actually like we have more control of our volume as our volume is more steady across the year. And so our kind of Q4 is actually our Q2. But during that holiday time period, it's not our model is not really giftable. I mean, you can do a gift card, but it's not something where you're buying it urgently in Q4 as a gift for somebody. And it's a time period where people are not spending as much money on themselves. And so historically, it's been a quarter where we've sat out from a marketing perspective a fair amount and that we don't have that same kind of Black Friday rush that I think a lot of other companies have, which is a struggle for them and but something that we don't totally have. And so we don't have a lot of the specific things, but like what but I think from a bigger picture perspective like logistics is a super, super important part of our client experience and we've made a lot of investments both in technology and in people and we're really grateful that we made those investments as we went through this kind of challenging time from a labor perspective over the last year. But I think we definitely are continuing to look at ways of like how can we continue to invest in our warehouses, how can we make sure that we have that we're competitive on a people front and those certainly continue to be priorities for us. Yes. No, understandable. When we look at the growth in e commerce as a whole and the incredible acceleration that we've seen as well as the ongoing innovation that you've talked about, how are you thinking about long term growth targets for Stitch Fix? You've been willing to kind of put those out there in the past. How have those evolved? Yes, I mean, we feel super bullish about the long term revenue opportunity for us. This is while this has been a challenging time with the apparel market shrinking and a lot of the larger players in the apparel market were let's be clear, we're struggling pre pandemic. I think there is a bigger question around mall and store footprints and are these rational and those questions which are kind of questions before the pandemic, I think became emergency situations during the pandemic. And so what we're seeing right now is a massive, massive amount of share shift. And so even though people are buying less clothes on average, our business is growing. We are growing that kind of market share opportunity. And so, we feel I think really, really bullish about the opportunity to continue to grow that share. Like is apparel going to bounce back next month? Is it going to bounce back 6 months from now or a year from now? I think that part is really hard to know and we have great data so that we can really see how customer behavior is changing. But at the same time, I think we know as much or as little as anybody else out there around like how the world is going to be evolved 6 months from now. But I think that as we think about it from more of a from now. But I think that as we think about it from more of a 5 year or 10 year view, this apparel was a $400,000,000,000 market opportunity. Like this is an enormous market opportunity that was enormously fragmented where many, many, many of the large players that kind of made up that $400,000,000,000 opportunity pre pandemic are in a very different financial spot or in a very different growth spot post pandemic and while that's sad to watch, it's a huge opportunity for us. Yes. No, absolutely. One of the biggest areas that you've invested in has been data science, AI, machine learning, technologies that based on the benefits that we've seen to revenue per client normalizing for the pandemic as well as the gross margins from optimization have had real tangible operating value for Stitch Fix. Is there a path where monetizing that technology goes beyond your own apparel business? It's a good question. I mean, right now, honestly, I think the biggest opportunity for us is actually to leverage that capability to improve our own business and grow our own business. I think when we talk about the $400,000,000,000 market opportunity, for us, we've had a history of being very efficient on a capital front. We have done a lot of self funding our own growth. And so to me, I think that while I think there's probably an opportunity to monetize some of the capability, to me the bigger opportunity really is in capturing greater share. We are in, I think especially now compared to pre pandemic, we are just in this moment where I think there is going to be a lot of share opportunity that comes available in the next 3 to 5 years. And so our focus is really focused there. Yes. You've all become we've all become a little bit more U. S. Focused during the pandemic. But how would you characterize the state of your business in the U. K? And where's your appetite for more geographic expansion? Yes. I mean, the U. K. Market, it's I mean, it's interesting. We entered the U. K. Market a year and a half ago. I mean, we knew we were entering at a time of Brexit was a is this going to happen, is it not? Like we were entering at a time of uncertainty and then you layer on the pandemic with all of that and it's I'm glad we launched when we did because I'm not sure that we would have been able to I don't know, like with all of the other uncertainty involved that we would have launched the market if we hadn't done it then and I'm super grateful that we did then because it's really given us this kind of time to launch and learn. And a year and a half later now, we're super we're pleased with the market. We're really optimistic about the market. We've in our launching and learning, we are able to learn a lot more about the client and what the client wants. And we've been really pleased with what we've been able to do there. And so it really, I think that momentum that we've seen there, while it's still super early, while there's still a lot going on in the UK with COVID and Brexit and there's definitely still some challenges there. But in these early innings, we feel really excited about the momentum and we really think that momentum like validates the viability and the possibility of taking this model of personalization to other geographies. So we don't have anything specific to share, but I think we're really excited about the progress we're seeing there and it definitely gives us optimism as we think about other markets. Yes. So to talk about profitability a little bit, you've grown fivefold over the last 4 years and added nearly $1,000,000,000 in sales over that period. But we've actually seen profitability decline during that as you've invested in new markets and verticals and customer acquisition. Is there a point where you believe it's important to start showing more leverage in the model? Yes. I mean, in the last in this time period, we went from being just a women's business to being expansive into Plus, into having men's, into having kids. Kids has been fantastic during the pandemic. The UK to your point. And this is as we I think we will always we've done it all in a healthy way. We did it all in a way that we self funded and we did it all in a way that is really thoughtful about the economics of our businesses. And we will of course always be that way. I think that is part of our DNA. I think we are always looking at AB tests, we're always looking at ROI and that's absolutely in our DNA. But I think at the same time, the opportunity now is actually quite different than it was even 5 years ago, frankly. I think the opportunity now is that there is an enormous amount of share shift that is happening beneath our feet and how can we make sure that our business is actually set up to really capitalize on all that growth and all of that opportunity. And so, I would say that we will continue to be responsible and we will continue to be thoughtful about kind of what types of returns we're getting and really thinking about kind of the profitability of our businesses. But I think at the same time to really step back and say like what is the long term opportunity and what's really the right thing for our shareholders and to maximize the value of this personalization capability that we have. And growth really is I think at the top of the list right now. Yes. You touched on an earnings call recently, you touched on the growth that you've seen in athleisurewear category and obviously that's demand that is particularly understandable in the environment that we're in. But curious how you think about that category as an opportunity for Stitch Fix longer term? I mean, it's interesting like this pandemic is really and we're doing a little bit chit chat about this before we came online around like how has the world changed and what parts of those are permanent. And my point of view is that a lot of these things are the pandemic really accelerated a lot of change that was already happening. And e commerce is absolutely one of those. I mean, this category apparel, 80% of apparel was still sold in stores before the pandemic. Like that's almost like a stunningly high number. And I think that number is going to be dramatically different post pandemic. It's going to look very different. And I think that's probably permanent. Some of this athleisure trend that we were seeing, we were already seeing what we were calling a casualization of the workplace. Like maybe 10 years ago, Heath, it would have been inappropriate for you to be here without a tie. And like now I think people Maybe 2 years ago. Maybe 2 years ago. I don't know. Like these things are changing. And the notion of the workplace becoming more casual was something that we already had seen. Like we already were seeing certain categories decline. We were already seeing requests as an example of like people wear jeans to my office now and like that's weird. Can you send me some work appropriate jeans? Like that was a trend we were already seeing. And so I do think this pandemic actually just accelerated what that like more casual you can wear to work what you wear in your normal life type of behavior. So I do think like I think that's a permanent opportunity honestly and I do think is it going to be sweatpants? Maybe not. But I think the notion of like I want to be the same person like at work that I am on the weekend and that probably means wearing the same clothes like I think that probably is a trend that's here to stay. Yes. No, it's going to be fascinating. I mean, there are obviously a lot of companies selling apparel online, offline, different models around rental or secondhand. How do you think about the competitive landscape and who really matters to Stitch Fix? Yes, it's a really good question. And it's I mean, it's a little bit of like a 2 sided question where like from a share of wallet perspective, like in terms of who are we competing with dollar for dollar, like we actually are competing with legacy players. Like it is a lot of the legacy dollars that might have been going into department stores that is flowing to our channel. And so from just like where is the money going to from, that's what it looks like. From like a who do we look at as a competitive stat, like how do we see the industry evolving? Yes, I mean, we definitely look at all the categories that you talked about. I do think this notion of a more circular economy, like I do think one of the trends that we saw before the pandemic that I think is really going to be real is this notion of we are all living now with our things and like if you could see my floor, I have a lot of kids stuff on my floor, but we are all kind of intimately living with our things and realizing that there are some things that have a lot of value to us and other things that we have that we don't. And so I do think this more thoughtful consumer notion will be something that is a permanent trend and Stitch Fix is really well positioned for that. Like if you're not going to buy jeans because they're 80% off, but you're only going to buy one pair of jeans that are perfect for you for this year, like that's an even harder problem to solve and one that Stitch fixes much better search to solve than an e commerce player with endless selection. But I think that the more circular economy ideas of like how can this garment, which I love, but no longer have used to be, have used for somebody else. Like I think that's really interesting and something where personalization is potentially even more powerful. Like the idea of weeding through the new closed market is hard enough, like imagine the multiple dimensions of the used closed market and trying to figure out what jeans are right for you, like that seems like an even more impossible problem. And so to be clear, we have no specific plans this year on this. But I do think the circular economy is really, really interesting and definitely I think a trend that's going to be here to stay. And I think mostly we really look to places where like where are they good at personalizing and I couldn't have imagined saying this even 5 years ago, but places like Pinterest and Instagram, like they personalize apparel pretty well and obviously they're starting to add more commerce elements to their models. But I do think the future of apparel is personalization and so really as I'm looking at kind of what the competitive set is, I'm really looking at, okay, who's good at delivering that? Yes. With the model that you have and the vision that you've got for the strategy that you've got for the company, Can you become the dominant online apparel player the way that a Wayfair maybe has in HomeGoods or the way that Chewy has in Pet? Yes. I mean, it's a great question. Apparel historically has been super, super fragmented. And maybe these other categories have too. Like I mean it's interesting like if you if I think back to even my pre Stitch Fix buying patterns, it would be like you buy one thing from J. Crew, you buy a couple of things from Nordstrom or whatever the thing is. And like there was no one player that was really dominant from even an individual market share of wallet perspective. And I think those things are starting to change and I think you are seeing more category leadership emerge as these capabilities become more important. And we have a 10 year head start on the capability of personalization and apparel. And I deeply believe that personalization is more important than a lot of these other And so And so that's what we're really focused on. We really believe that we are best in the world at that. We have 10 years of doing this under our belt. This is all that we do. And we're really excited about the opportunity that brings for us. Yes. No, absolutely. So just to maybe wrap up, you were on a podcast recently where you said that you weren't even 10% done with your vision. What are the main areas that Stitch Fix is exploring? What does the other 90% of that vision look like? Oh, I mean, even in apparel, like there's just so much opportunity for us to grow, for us to be better. And direct buy definitely is a big part of this. Like I really think that like the market opportunity for a more personalized way of buying apparel, like it really is all of it. It's like if you could imagine like going to your favorite designer's website and like seeing the 4 things that you personally would love the most at the top of that website, like if you could walk into a store and like it's not a sea of racks, but it's just like the 20 things that like you are going to love. Like these are all like I'm describing amazing experiences that would that are step change better than what people are experiencing today. And I do think that is the power of the capability that we're building. And so I think our work feels very, very unfinished. Like we are very pleased that we've been able to deliver 1,000,000,000 of dollars of revenue. But I think at the same time, there's still massive, massive inefficiency in the way that people are on average buying clothes out there and there's still so much opportunity I think to be able to take the application of personalization that we've developed and to be able to make many more client journeys better and to make many more purchase experiences better and ultimately better match make between people and products. And to come back to this notion of like a more thoughtful consumer and buying fewer things like if I think the notion of like just buy fewer things and things that you really love, like if that's kind of a mantra that people are going to be able to live by like that capability of like find the things you love is actually pretty challenging in this world with a sea of stuff. And so I think that what we've built is powerful. What we're building has a lot of possibility. And I really think we're just in the early innings of what that can look like. Yes. Well, I think we're all excited to see where that's going and what the other 90% looks like. But Katrina, thank you so much for taking the time to join us and definitely look forward to being able to do this again in person next time. Absolutely. Thank you for having me. Thank you for joining. Thanks.