I'll stick with precedent. I know everyone's moving around, and unfortunately, we only have five minutes between sessions, so there'll be people that are trickling in. I think in the interest of time, we should kick off. Our next fireside chat is with the team from Wayfair. I've never had the opportunity to interview them here at Communacopia in the five years I've been at Goldman. We've always talked more at our New York-based conference, so it's great to see you guys here out in San Francisco. Thanks for coming to the show out here.
Happy to be here.
It's great to be here.
Okay. Look, I think why don't we kick it off taking a step back before we take a step forward? As you look back over the last several years, this business has evolved a lot. When you think about the journey you've been on, from even going pre-COVID, through COVID, post-COVID, and where we are today, maybe set the stage for the evolution the business has been on, and then we'll use that as a jumping-off point to talk about all the exciting forward initiatives you guys have in place.
Absolutely. I guess the quick summary I would give is pre-COVID, we went public in 2014, and we were doing $1 billion in sales that year. Pre-COVID 2019, so six years later, we were doing $9 billion. We grew a lot in that period. Even at that time, pre-COVID, we sort of figured out that things had become a little bit inefficient, a lot of hiring tied to the rapid growth. We felt like we needed to become a little more lean and efficient again, kind of what had driven our success. COVID sort of threw us for a loop. COVID had a short boom followed by a long bust for the category we are in and for online, and the bust was exacerbated in the category because of ocean freight inflation and some additional factors.
We had hired a lot during COVID, so kind of the efficiency we were seeking had sort of gone the wrong way with the COVID loop. Effectively, the journey post-COVID is by 2022, we were back kind of focused on the strategy we had. We started taking share again in the market in 2022, and that was basically through the core recipe, like price, selection, availability, and speed of delivery. The reason it was just through the core recipe is that we were putting our technology efforts, so half of our corporate staff is our technology folks, software, product, data science, to a large re-platforming effort that we started in that timeframe. By 2024 into 2025, we are pretty far along in that. Then we start putting technology cycles towards programs, like Wayfair Rewards, our loyalty program, Wayfair Verified, retail stores, Wayfair Delivery+.
You see our growth accelerate as we get into 2025. As we get into this year, we are getting to the tail end of all this technology work, which is on the infrastructure, which then lets us put effort back into kind of one of the ways we have historically grown a lot, which is product-led growth.
Yeah.
As we go out of this year into next year, we will have that, and this is why, going back a year now, we talked about how our growth, which had sort of been kind of flat year-over-year at the beginning of 2025, how it could go to 5%, then 10%, then 15%, 20% organically, even with the category out of favor. We got to 5%, and then we are at 7% or 8%. We have guided this quarter to high single digits, and we are basically on that journey.
Okay. With that as a jumping-off point, let's stick with the category first. What are you seeing about the current state of the category and the way consumers are interacting with it today?
Well, I think the category has some malaise in it, which is largely tied to the fact that the housing market has some malaise in it, and as everyone knows, that's largely tied to the interest rate. You basically have folks not moving, and as a result, you sort of invest a little less in the housing projects. You're not moving, which is a year where you'd spend a lot more than a year you don't move. The category overall, it had some negative comp years. Now it's back to sort of like flattish year-over-year, but it's not a booming category. But I'll just remind you, it's a very large category. Depending on how you define the TAM, $400 billion-$500 billion in the markets we're in, which is the U.S., Canada, U.K., and Ireland.
The way we look at it is $12.5 billion last year in sales. We have a small piece of the category, but the category's flattish, but it's very fragmented, and so the opportunity is for sure.
Okay. Within that conversation around fragmented nature of the opportunity, when you think about growth going forward, do you break it into two pieces? We talk about this on the earnings calls, about the macro piece sort of out of your control and sort of the piece that's inside your control from an operational standpoint. How do you think about aligning some of your key initiatives when the macro is x, but you're gaining share, outgrowing-
Yeah.
...the category and then the elements that are inside your control?
We don't tend to worry about the macro too much, and the reason, if you think about in 2014, we were $1 billion in sales. In 2019, we were $9 billion in sales, so 9X over a six-year period. Category was great in those years. Great is 3.5%-4% growth. 3.5%, 4% growth doesn't really let you 9x, right? Or doesn't let you 5x, doesn't let you 3x. So the bulk of our growth will come from our own actions, which is the recipe, programs, and product-led growth, which will let us take share. A good category growing 3% or 4% is a lot better than zero. But the truth is, that's like the icing on the cake. That's not the cake.
Yeah, and we gave the guidance last forward of the high single digits for Q3. And when we talked about in your shareholder letter, when you talked about getting to 10%, 15%, 20%, that was all just assuming sort of status quo in the category.
Yeah.
It's a potential tailwind, but it's not factored into how we think about it.
Okay. Last one on this sort of from a big picture standpoint is talk a little bit, you talked about fragmentation. Talk a little bit about the market share opportunity. How do you think about aligning your initiatives to capture more and more share? The growth you are talking about obviously is well above category level. Talk a little bit about how you align the initiatives, the way you want the platform to go against the market share opportunity you guys see as a team.
Yeah. The way to think about that is you start with you understand your customer segments, right? We service consumers. We also have a B2B program, Wayfair Professional. We are in mass, which is a Wayfair brand, all the way up to luxury, which is the Perigold brand. Those two are platforms. We have three specialty retail brands, AllModern, Birch Lane, Joss & Main. Those play at the high end of mass. We have these go-to-market strategies. We then look at what our customers in those segments want. What is it that they would prefer, whether it is convenience and speed around delivery and assembly and haul away, or whether it is a loyalty program that makes us top of mind, or technology investments in the app or on the site.
Or is it expanding the selection to have the best selection through all the kind of our category. People do not want the same items as each other, so selection adds a lot of value. We understand what customers want. We then create initiatives to provide those to customers. In a lot of cases, we may already have a market-leading position in what we are providing customers, but we know we can make it better, and we know as we make it better, we can see the response. These initiatives are basically all about being a category specialist, aligning with our customer segments, and delivering them what they want, often which is not being provided by anyone else. It just draws them in, whether it be new customers or whether it be more purchases per year, more dollars per year from the existing base.
Yeah, and if you think about some of the initiatives that we've started over the last few years, as Nir was just talking about, moving from the recipe, getting back in place to launches of new initiatives, and then product-led growth. Something like Loyalty is designed to obviously expand share of wallet among existing customers, although we've actually picked up quite a few lapsed customers. We've seen really nice momentum from lapsed customers and loyalty. Then something like the stores, we know, one, do expand share of wallet from existing customers, but they've actually been a great engine to bring in new customers. So it's continued to hold that 50% of the customers purchasing in store are new to the customer file. There's initiatives designed at both, and our marketing efforts are designed at both.
And then we also segment out, Wayfair obviously plays broadly across mass, but we talked about Perigold on the last call and gaining share in that sort of higher-end luxury segment as well, and then obviously our B2B segment.
Okay. Maybe Kate, sticking with you and building on that, when you think about the growth algorithm for the business, how do you think about volumes relative to AOV over time in terms of the building blocks, and how to think about what will contribute to growth?
Yeah. We want to put volume through the system, right?
Yeah.
So we know that if we grow orders, that that begets more orders, right? You have a good experience with us, you come back, your customer lifetime value is stronger. AOV for us, if you think about sort of the AOV components, it's like for like product pricing, it's mix, and then it's items per order. Generally speaking, over the long run, absent an inflationary period or non-inflationary period, AOV generally goes up a few points a year, sort of standard inflation on like for like product pricing, and a little bit of mix shift as Perigold, for example, grows or B2B, which comes in at a higher AOV. AOV to us, though, is an output. So we know that it generally moves in that direction, but it's not something that we're intentionally driving.
We focus more on, we want that customer to come back, to repurchase, maybe add items in their original purchase, maybe purchase more frequently. And some of our programs might even bring AOV down, like loyalty, which drives frequency purchases, which tend to be lower AOV.
Yeah.
Yeah. The unit we care about, to echo what Kate just said, is not like an order level AOV. It's the dollars per customer per year.
Customer lifetime value.
Right. So we're trying to grow our share of their wallet. We want the low-ticket frequency purchase, the decorative accents, the pillows, the bedding, right, which you say lower AOV. We also want to grow our large appliances business-
Yeah.
...which can grow AOV.
Right. Understood. One of the more interesting phenomenons around the company is the route you are going down with physical retail. Maybe talk a little bit about what you have learned from what you have already built and scaled, even though it is still relatively early days with physical retail. Then obviously, you keep making announcements about expanding on the strategy, so you must be getting a signal that you feel good about, and how should investors think about how far this strategy will go over the medium to long term measured against the signal you have gotten so far?
I will throw out a few thoughts, and then Kate can jump in. We are really excited about what is happening with stores. We opened our first one north of Chicago in Wilmette in 2024, right before Memorial Day in May. We immediately saw a great response. What has happened over the two subsequent years is we have seen that we are attracting a lot of new customers to the brand. They know us, but when we were purely online, we were not tangible enough for them in the category. Our existing customers in that trade area, we see that the spend for that cohort per quarter from the time they first visit the store, it goes up, and it stays up. We basically have nice cohort steady purchasing from these new customers to file, and then we actually have steady at an increased level from existing.
If you think about it, in our category, it makes sense because you say, "Well, in this category, I may want to lay on a mattress, sit on a sofa.
Yeah.
I may want to work with a designer. I may want to talk about financing. I may want to design a kitchen with appliances and cabinetry. Everything I just mentioned, you would argue, is easier in a store. Then you may say, "Well, I have young kids. I want to shop in the evening when they're in bed. I want to just look at the selection without having to drive around. My time is limited. Both spouses work." You say, "Oh, well, online has a value proposition," right?
Yeah.
What's obvious is they both have value propositions.
Yeah.
If you offer a customer in that trade area both, it makes a lot more sense that you could take more share of wallet and be more top of mind and provide them with experiences like a buy online return in store, which economically is better for us than when they have to pay to ship it back. For them, they, of course, love it more. It sort of makes sense. Well, we were able to prove it out. Then we've opened up this year, one in Columbus, Ohio, one in Atlanta, Georgia, and we're seeing the exact behavior we expected. So we have a series of stores coming, but we're pretty excited about what it does.
Got it. Okay. Maybe just building on that, though, how do you think about what it does for the broader brand awareness, the top of the funnel dynamic? How does that compare to other means of which you can introduce your brand and build your brand into the consumer landscape if you're doing it on sort of a local basis for the physical location?
We have five brands. For Wayfair, I would say we are a household brand, so people know our brand, but they may not have purchased from us. They may not have an in-depth understanding of all the categories we are in, how strong the price value is, how tremendous the selection is. A store might be the easiest way for some folks to really get familiar with us. For other folks, they may have already spent a lot of time on the app or on our site, so they may already be very familiar with us. Even for a lot of the existing customers, when they come in the store, they are still surprised and learn about the breadth of our categories and the depth of the offerings. It has a very strong effect on the brand, and how does the store economics play out over time?
There is obviously the incremental revenue and the profits from that. There is how it changes. It provides leverage on our advertising because of the brand impacts. There is a bunch of categories that because the customer is effectively taking the small items home with them, there is a lot of leverage on shipping costs for those categories because they are effectively doing the shipping to their home by carrying it out in a bag.
Right.
There are different benefits.
Okay. Understood. I just want to make sure the framing is out there. You have talked a little bit about how investors should think about the pace and cadence of store evolution. How do you think about that over the next five to 10 years? Is there a certain number of stores or square footage per year that you think is the building blocks?
I have a number, but I let Kate provide these types of things.
We have not put a number out there, Niraj. No, we feel very good about how they're evolving.
Yeah.
As you saw, we had that Wilmette store open for a little bit of time before we started adding because we wanted to get confident in the performance of it.
Yeah.
We've obviously announced at this point a number of new leases opening throughout 2027. So I think what you're seeing is a nice build.
Yeah.
That's really because we continue to see this strong performance. What we're trying to test out now, Niraj talked a little bit about it in some of what we've learned from the stores. We're testing a bit different types of shopping centers that we're in. We're testing a little bit the size, format, two levels versus one level. We'll keep learning, and we want to make sure that we're iterating as we go, when we have enough time to do a batch, learn a little bit, and iterate. We do intend to keep expanding.
Well, I appreciate the framing. I wasn't trying to put you on the spot.
No.
I think as an analyst, you see a building momentum of announcements, and you naturally start to think about the second derivative and where we're headed.
Yeah. You should ask Kate some follow-up questions for specific numbers.
We're excited by the momentum, and we will continue to share as it evolves.
I will defer to Kate on this and be respectful. I do appreciate it, though. I think it's going to be a really interesting thing to continue to track and watch how it scales. In the last set of results, the luxury market, Perigold in particular, was a source of a lot of operating momentum. Talk a little bit about what you're seeing in the luxury market and what that market presents as an opportunity for you over the medium to long term.
Sure. We talked a lot about Perigold because I think in the last call, just to feature it, because I think obviously the company name is Wayfair. Our largest brand is Wayfair. Folks know us for Wayfair, but they may be less familiar with our specialty retail brands, AllModern, Birch Lane, Joss & Main, and then Perigold in luxury, and they also may be less familiar with Wayfair Professional or B2B program. We try to talk about each of those in some sort of rotation. I think on Perigold, that's still a business that's relatively small compared to the TAM it's in. It's quite small. We think Wayfair is small compared to its TAM. Perigold will be even smaller compared to its TAM. We're making really nice progress there. We have a very novel offering.
All the brands that you would find in the design centers that historically were open to the trade, but not open to the affluent consumer, that consumer now has access to. For the vast majority of those brands, the only place you can really find them online is Perigold. When you couple that offering with the fact that we have industry-leading logistics, when you think about what we can do for delivery and consolidation, when you think about the technology that we can support it with, a lot of which is leverage from it being part of this broader family of brands and the size of our business, we can really do something exciting for the consumer. That's growing quite nicely, and it's a great opportunity. Obviously, when we talk about the housing market is a little bit of a depressing factor on the category.
Our strategy is to just take share, which we can in every segment. But as you would imagine, affluent customers will still spend more on a relative basis than less affluent consumers in that type of environment.
Okay. Not to tie two themes together, but how do you think about the luxury market offering also fitting back into the physical retail strategy more broadly? Typically, I've found when we've done surveys of the category, the higher up you go in the price point, the more a touch and feel component-
Yep.
...and a high-touch component continues to become part of the proposition. Are those tied somewhat together as well?
Well, what we were talking about earlier are the Wayfair stores specifically.
Yeah.
For Perigold, we opened two stores last year in 2025, one in West Palm Beach in CityPlace and one in Highland Village in Houston.
Yeah.
Both of which are great markets for us, and they are both doing great. There will be a point at which we will start expanding the stores. The same effect we are seeing with Wayfair, of how you can get the best of both worlds when you have the extensive online offering with great technology, coupled with the stores experience, all kind of supported by the supply chain logistics capability we have and the supplier relationships we have. It is a really powerful combination. We are executing that not just for the Wayfair brand, but across each of our brands.
Okay, understood. Sticking with this concept of growth, and you have talked a little bit about how the category could evolve. Talk a little bit about the underserved or under elements of penetration in the category that could provide other areas of growth to you. Are there verticals, are there categories of product that you under-index to today that you see as an opportunity for growth contribution over the medium to long term?
I will start and then maybe Kate can jump in. I would say, absolutely. I talked a minute ago about how luxury is something we entered only a number of years ago. That is an opportunity to grow. I touched on Wayfair Professional, the share we have on the B2B side, quite small relative to the potential. In categories, I think we are best known for furniture and decor, and within that, for furniture, which is a large category, but when you start thinking about the expansiveness of what we provide in home improvement, which ranges from lighting to plumbing, to flooring and tile, to door and cabinet hardware, and to cabinetry.
And we design full kitchens, including the large appliances, and we can do everything there from soup to nuts, which is a growing segment for us. But again, we are tiny compared to potential. There is a lot of room there.
And then for housewares, there's a lot of room for housewares. And housewares is a great category, for example, in stores, where we over-index in what happens in stores because of the nature of the category. So we have kind of room on multiple dimensions to grow. So when you think about the share, you say, well, okay, so you want to grow, you're saying you can grow not just 5% year-over-year, but you said it can grow to 10%, it can grow to 15%, and it can grow to 20%. You're saying that it can do that organically, it can do that with the category flat, and it can do it while you grow profits faster than you grow revenue. How is that possible? The answer is sort of when you add up all these initiatives, they show you how it's possible.
Okay. That's helpful. Look, it's a technology conference, so I'm somewhat contractually obligated to ask about AI. Maybe we can talk a little bit about your broader AI strategy. What I find is companies are talking about it both in the way it's getting deployed inside their business and the way it could change the customer journey, outside their business and amplify growth. Maybe just level set with how you think about AI and the implementation of AI across the company and the platform.
My background is as an engineer, co-founder Steve Conine's background is as an engineer. We've always been a technology-driven, led company. I mentioned of our corporate staff, half of the folks on our corporate staff are software engineers, product managers, data scientists, and that's well over 2,000 people. So that's a large size technology team. The technology changes that came along the way, obviously, when we started the company, it was the internet, but then you think about cloud and mobile, and these were all exciting opportunities for us, and ones that we leaned into. AI is effectively that, but on a larger scale opportunity than the ones I mentioned. So we were, I think, relatively early to make the decision to lean into that. And we sort of did that with three pillars in mind.
So one was, what do you do for your internal operations? So how do you help everyone in the company learn how to leverage AI to do what they do better, to get more done, to get things done at a higher quality, at a lower cost, add efficiency? The second pillar is what can we do for our suppliers to make it easier for them to operate their business on our platform, for them to do more things, for them to get better insights, for them to basically more quickly get done with the busy work of their job, so they can spend more time on growing their sales on our platform, participating in more programs. The third pillar is what can we do for the customer?
How can we change the customer journey in ways that make it more engaging, more productive, more exciting for them, in ways that are also very intuitive, so that it is not like they have to go up a learning curve to figure out how to change what they are doing.
Over time, when you think about changing the consumer journey, what do you guys see as a team as the opportunity set around conversion, personalization, discovery? How different will the shopping experience potentially evolve to? There has been a lot of talk about agentic commerce here at the Communacopia over the first two days, but generally, it mostly boils down to conversations around personalization and conversion. How do you guys think about those broad topics?
That would be our view. We do not believe that individual consumer is likely to defer to an agent to make all the decisions on their behalf about how they are going to outfit their home. There are certain categories where there is a lot of personal decision-making in what you want to buy. I think fashion would be one of those categories. I think home is another one of those categories. Whereas there are other categories that are more purely transactional, like I want replenishment of my dish soap and my paper towels, or I want execution of an order to get me three more USB-C iPhone cables, right? There, I might be willing to defer a lot just with basic criteria about what I prioritize between cost and quality or whatever, speed. In our category, we are basically doing a few things.
Obviously, we partnered with all the AI platforms to make sure we draw in traffic, but really, it is more like when you get on our platform, it is exactly what you said. It is how can we make the experience more immersive around personalization, around basically intuitively helping folks have an experience that is more enjoyable and more productive for them. So it draws them in deeper in ways that are interesting, both in what they are understanding the context of what they want and helping them with that, but also understanding them t o the degree where we can do things proactively for them that are more exciting and interesting.
Okay.
I would just add that our general view has been that we're agnostic to where the traffic is coming in from. As Niraj mentioned, we've partnered with Google on Universal Commerce Protocol. They've developed that. We've partnered with OpenAI on ads. We've partnered with Perplexity around checkout. So we're saying we can play wherever. We think ultimately, as Niraj said, it's a highly emotive category, so there is an element of customer choice that is important here. But we can work with you wherever you want to come to our site from. I do think, we often hear from folks in the investor community, expectations around how much traffic is coming from AI that are a bit wildly inflated relative. Our customer is a 50-something-year-old, typically woman, and so less is coming right now, although it's growing rapidly from the different LLMs than folks may expect.
But we're prepared to work with that, as we've always done with the new technology, and we think we can make the experience on the site that much more enjoyable to the shopper from a personalization and conversion perspective. So we're really looking at it both angles.
Okay. Maybe turning to some other initiatives, Kate, maybe talk about CastleGate in terms of what you're building, what you're scaling, how it can create differentiation on both the buyer and the seller part of the platform. Love to go a little bit deeper on that.
Yeah. When we started CastleGate back in really 2015, the idea was that we could leverage our scale to create an experience that was both better for the customer and ultimately more economically efficient. We could forward position that inventory, get it closer to where the consumer was, and that would result in speed and cost efficiency, and probably reduce damage as well. Over many years, we've built the overall, not just the CastleGate network, but what we call the Wayfair Delivery Network, which is where we do last-mile delivery of large parcel products to your home, and we have middle-mile facilities where we can move that product even closer to the customer. All of that combined, we now have, Niraj, you always state the number of how many millions of square footage we have across the network now.
Over 20 million sq f t across 75+ buildings.
That includes U.S., Canada, and the U.K., where we have locations in all of those sites. We've also improved over the last several years the experience for our suppliers in CastleGate. We obviously added the multichannel offering a little over a year ago to enable suppliers to be able to have a broader array of products with us and be able to go a little bit deeper in those products. But the end goal on all of this is to improve that customer experience. It helps drive that speed. We know we can put a speed badge on it, and that helps improve conversion, and it lowers damage, so the ultimate experience of the customer is better.
Understood. Maybe just talk a little bit to the building the scale around it. What kind of competitive advantages for you as a platform do you think that can build over time as well, having that kind of logistics network relative to-
Yeah, Niraj referenced it.
...pure, yeah
in the shareholder letter two years ago when we talked about our competitive moats. One of the key competitive moats was our logistics network. And so that's not just CastleGate, it would actually include Wayfair Delivery Network and the overall piece in it. And you really have to have significant scale to make that work. Most of the furniture players that have somewhat of a logistics network are doing that regionally. To do that nationally is quite unique, and that allows us to do other value-added services for the customer.
We've talked about Delivery+ a little bit on the calls from time to time, but that's something that's rolling out now, where the customer can have an enhanced, if they choose, an enhanced delivery experience in terms of removal of all of the product packaging, going exactly into the room they want, scheduling it at the exact hours that they want. We also now do, we started this a few years ago, deluxing, where we open up the products that are more highly damage-prone in our facilities. Imagine, say, a vanity or a cabinet, and we can touch that up before we deliver it to you. That's something that a regional furniture player used to do, but nobody was really doing that at scale. It would be very hard to replicate that kind of network today, and we do think that that's a very important moat for us.
Okay. Then a few more, as we just have a few minutes left, but maybe margins. One of the themes and debates that have been coming up at the conference is just how to balance all the investments companies want to make in growth relative to also continuing to deliver on margin expansion. Kate, one for you, and then maybe I'll end on a bigger picture one. Just how do we think about the balance to be struck between investments that you want to make relative to continue to prove out margin trajectory in the business?
You heard Niraj say it actually a few questions ago, we're quite focused on growing top line and bottom line and improving that bottom line faster than top line. We're very focused on the profitability. I think you've seen us continue on that path over the last many quarters. So we have a high degree of conviction that we can continue to accelerate the top line while improving those EBITDA dollars and EBITDA margin, ultimately continuing to improve to net income positive. So we feel quite good about our ability to invest in the initiatives that we want to on the P&L. Then from the capital structure side, you just asked about the logistics network. That's very well built out at this point. We talk about some maintenance there.
Obviously, we've been investing in stores, and we'll continue to invest in that, but we can all fund that from our own cash flows. So we feel quite good, again, about our ability to fund that and actually continue to improve our leverage ratios, which we've done pretty significantly over the last few years.
Okay. Niraj, when you look at the investments that the business is making for the long term, talk to me a little bit about what you're the most excited about when you think about deploying capital into the business against the potential return profile of those dollars. Then bringing Kate into the second part of the question as we wrap up. How do you think about striking a balance around all the elements of buy versus build, capital return, all the things that measure against trying to strike a balance more broadly with capital? So excitement about what the return will be relative to striking a balance for the two of you.
Yeah. So I think we early on talked about this, maybe about 20 minutes ago, how do we decide what programs, what initiatives we drive? We do that by working from what our customers want, then figure out how to deliver what they want, either in a traditional or a non-traditional way, whatever is going to be the most effective way of doing that. And we aim to not be beholden by how things traditionally work or what we were doing yesterday. When you think about the places where we're investing, whether it be stores, whether it be in the technology, whether it be in the logistics network, whether it be new programs like Wayfair Verified with merchants and curators, or whether it be Wayfair Rewards and then marketing the loyalty program to customers.
All these things tie back to basically a customer need and then us devising an exciting way to deliver that to customers that drive economic gains for us. The economic gains are an outcome of customers basically reacting positively to what we're doing, like rewarding us with orders. We're protecting the economics so that as we get the orders, we get the profits. That's sort of how we do everything. This idea that what we could invest in would be at odds with profits isn't really there, because the way we can grow profits the most is by protecting the economics and growing the volumes.
Yeah.
As long as you're doing that, in our business and a lot of businesses, the economies of scale drive a lot more profits. It's impossible to do when you're smaller. Logistics is a perfect example. As we grow and the logistics network expands, we reduce damage, we increase speed of delivery, and we reduce cost. Our customer gets the benefit of those things, but we get the benefit of those things. Our suppliers get the benefit of those things. These things are mutually consistent.
Yeah. I think you hit on all of it. I guess I'd go back to sort of overarching. We've talked at various points over the years about our goal of ultimately improving free cash flow per share.
Yes.
Right? To do that, the business needs to be growing the top line, but profitable. We need to be self-funding that from our cash flow. We need to do that in a way that's not dilutive. I think you've seen us make steps on each element of this. We've improved the margin profile. We've improved the cash flow. We have actually managed what was going to be significant dilution from the converts. We've now managed most of that at this point.
Yeah, right.
We're in a pretty good position on each of those to continue to improve. When you think about a metric that something like free cash flow per share, what I love about that is, as Niraj spoke to hit that goal, we have to be driving the volume and driving the profitability at the same time, in a way that on the capital structure continues to improve the capital structure. I think that's where we've been chipping away at.
Okay. Niraj, Kate, thanks so much for giving me the opportunity to have the conversation. Really enjoyed it.
Thank you.
Please join me in thanking Wayfair for being part of the conference.